I bought a new Bear Montana long bow to play with this summer. I was tuning some new arrows this past weekend and have a nock high indication that want go away when bare shafting. I normally have my nock set at 1/2" but it was way high. I did make it some better by dropping it to 3/8" , below 3/8" doesn't seem to help any. I fletched a couple of arrows and they seem to fly well and the bare shafts group with the fletched arrows, just knock high. I shoot split finger so I tried 3 under just to see what happens. It did get better, but still knock high.
Could it be the bow isn't tillered properly and I will never get rid of nock high completely? This is one of the bows that missed weight and I got at a good price, maybe they missed tiller also.
Bear Montana owners do you have this problem with your bow?
Tiller is pretty easy to measure.
You probaly have the nock height set correctly but are getting nock high due to a form issue. The nock high indication does not get better becuase, when nock low, the arrow starts bouncing of the rest and appears nock high. Tiller will affect your nocking point, but you should be able to find nocking point that work. Measure your tiller (difference between the distance from the string to the upper fade and to the lower fade). Someone here can tell you whether it is reasonable for that bow (I'm not familiar with the Montana.
What weight bow and what spine arrows are you shooing? Sometimes when I get flight I can't figure out I start looking at my arrow spine.
I can mess up flight on lower poundage bows using more force on my bottom finger - does not happen to me over 50 lbs but under they get sensitive to it - my opinion anyway. Try using some pressure and then no pressure on bottom finger and see what happens.
Have you tried tying a nocking point below the nock?
I have this same problem and I know it is a form issue. If I use more pressure with my index finger it clears up, sometimes. The only way I've got away from this nock high problem is by using the Bear Weather rest. It's currently on all my recurve bows. Now I'm playing with a new Howard Hill long bow and encountering the same nock high dilemma. Maybe this long bow will finally teach me proper form. :archer2:
Ross
I forgot to add the tiller it's only 3/8" I'm not sure if that's right for a Montana or not.
The Bow is 40# and I'm using 600 spine arrows.
The first thing I thought was form. So I pulled out yet another new recurve 40# draw, same arrows and was able to set the nock point at about 3/8". it beats the heck out of me.
I'll work with finger pressure tomorrow and see if that helps
I did use a second nock, didn't seem to make a a difference.
Feel any pressure on the bottom of your index finger, just above the arrow nock?
Not uncommon to apply pressure on the shaft which causes all sorts of tuning issues.
Try moving the index finger up the string just a hair, ensuring no contact with the arrow and see if it clears up the nock high.
I am very bad about having slightly uneven finger pressure when I shoot. I can shoot a great group with bareshafts and fletched arrows all day as it isn't bad enough to effect fletched arrow flight or where a bare shaft hits but I can almost never get perfect bareshaft flight. I figure if I am grouping bareshafts and fletched arrows close enough together to robin hood one every now and then that if good enough. Besides no one is going to hunt with a bare shaft. The best tuning test I have done is to shoot broadheads with your fletchings thoroughly soaked. If they fly fine and hit where you look that's great if not you probably need to do a small amount of bare shaft and fletched arrow group tuning.
When I shoot split finger I always get knock high reading no matter what I do that is one of the reasons I switched to 3 under. That's just me.
How far back are you from the target? If you are not at least 20 yards away, move back. When in doubt about what is happening, move back. Twenty yards is decent, 25-30 is even better in my opinion.
Do you hear anything that might be contact between the back of the arrow and the shelf? Nock high can be from a nock point that is too high (obviously), but can also be from a nock point that is too low (bounce). I shoot split too and one half inch above level for your top nocking point is about normal, but I have a couple of bows that like it up around 5/8". I always use two nock points too, doesn't hurt anything and removes a variable.
When tuning nock height I like to start way high, like 3/4" or so, high enough so that you know there is no way you will need anything higher. Then work your way down.
In a perfect world your bare shafts and fletched will group together and be stuck in the target at exactly the same angle. It doesn't always work that way though, so as long as your bare shafts and fletched group together at 25-30 yards I'd call it good. With bare shafts and fletched grouping together you should have excellent arrow flight and your broadheads (same weight) should shoot right into the same group.
QuoteOriginally posted by NBK:
Feel any pressure on the bottom of your index finger, just above the arrow nock?
Not uncommon to apply pressure on the shaft which causes all sorts of tuning issues.
Try moving the index finger up the string just a hair, ensuring no contact with the arrow and see if it clears up the nock high.
I don't shoot with a tab but have a few around. I have one that has the anti pinch so I did try it, It made no difference. I sed the same glove, form and arrow with the recurve and had no problems with nock high. I know they are different animals. But, I would think if I could tune arrows for one I could for the other. Unless theres something going on mechanically with the bow it self.
QuoteOriginally posted by Easykeeper:
How far back are you from the target? If you are not at least 20 yards away, move back. When in doubt about what is happening, move back. Twenty yards is decent, 25-30 is even better in my opinion.
Do you hear anything that might be contact between the back of the arrow and the shelf? Nock high can be from a nock point that is too high (obviously), but can also be from a nock point that is too low (bounce). I shoot split too and one half inch above level for your top nocking point is about normal, but I have a couple of bows that like it up around 5/8". I always use two nock points too, doesn't hurt anything and removes a variable.
When tuning nock height I like to start way high, like 3/4" or so, high enough so that you know there is no way you will need anything higher. Then work your way down.
In a perfect world your bare shafts and fletched will group together and be stuck in the target at exactly the same angle. It doesn't always work that way though, so as long as your bare shafts and fletched group together at 25-30 yards I'd call it good. With bare shafts and fletched grouping together you should have excellent arrow flight and your broadheads (same weight) should shoot right into the same group.
No strange noise from the bow. Most of my bows like the nocking point at about 1/2", so that's where I started. Maybe I do need to try a little higher on this bow. I will try that tomorrow. I was shooting at 20 yards today.
How high? A little nock high is just fine. A 45 degree angle is not.
I am surprised your nock is only 3/8 above are you measuring that at the shelf?
Does sound like a form issue caused by finger position/release. Given properly spined arrows , a knocking point between 3/8-5/8" high should work. I would try drawing with your index and middle finger at least 1/8" away from the arrow with a shallow hook. Also, check the knock fit to the string and brace height.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
How high? A little nock high is just fine. A 45 degree angle is not.
I am surprised your nock is only 3/8 above are you measuring that at the shelf?
Yes at the shelf. I started a 1/2" which is normal for most of my bows and went up and down from there.
QuoteOriginally posted by lbshooter:
Does sound like a form issue caused by finger position/release. Given properly spined arrows , a knocking point between 3/8-5/8" high should work. I would try drawing with your index and middle finger at least 1/8" away from the arrow with a shallow hook. Also, check the knock fit to the string and brace height.
I will give this a try this afternoon. Thanks for the reply.
More bare shaft tuning this afternoon. I tried all the recommendations from you guys. I started with two nocks. I ran the nocks down until I got a week arrow indication. so then I knew I was to low. I ran the nock up until the week arrow indication went away. Still have the nock high problem. I ran the nock up higher the nock high increased, of course. I ran the nock down until it stoped having any effect, about 3/8".
Then I spent some time on my form trying to effect the nock high in some way. I could make it worse by rasing my elbow higher, pinching the kock. But, nothing seemed to make it better. I had some Easton 1916 laying around so I got a bare shaft 1916 and shoot it. It flew, well, as stright as an arrow. I ran the nock up and down with the 1916. I could make it nock high nock low and nock perfect. I was glad to find out it wasn't just me. It seems this bow likes the heaver and fater arrows. Maybe the lightweight carbons react quicker to errors in my form, I just don't know why. Maybe I'll just shoot aluminum arrows in this bow.
The other thing I don't under stand was when shooting with a tab I got a stiff arrow indication. Still nock high but stiff. I switched back to my glove and the spin was perfect. I don't shoot with a tab and I'm not very comfortable with it. But, I never expected it would change the dynamic spin of the arrow. Strange!