Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Kevin Hansen on January 23, 2014, 08:06:00 PM
-
Just as I've gravitated away from fleece and other synthetics and moved towards wool and cotton, I'm finding myself thinking of moving away from Gore-Tex lined boots and going with an all leather boot. One of the makers I'm looking at advertises their double and triple vamp construction as water proof. In their words it isn't 'stand in the middle of a stream water proof', but the boots will most certainly keep your feet dry during a quick creek crossing, walking in wet grass, or slogging through wet slushy snow. I want to believe it, but I'm dubious and cautious about leaving Gore-Tex behind as I have mostly had good luck with it.
Any of you have first hand experience with the water proofness of non Gore-Tex boots?
Thanks.
-
I use sno-seal with good results on leather boots.
-
you need to try the leather sealer from Kennetrek as this stuff wont break down the glue lines ,do your research.i used to use MT pitch blend but gonna try this new stuff.
-
Looks like you might be considering Russells. I have a few of those. Can certainly cross a creek or walk threw dewey fields to a stand without water getting in. However, a half-day walking in continuously wet conditions and the water will eventually soak through. They dry out. I've found Ubenhauf's is a good leather treatment/sealer.
-
Thanks for the suggestions.
Orion, PM sent.
Anyone else care to share thier experiences with non Gore-Tex boots?
Thanks.
-
toilet seal wax them, and they are then waterproof
-
I agree with Hummer. The toilet seal wax really works.
-
All leather non GT boots are great, they breathe and your feet stay cool. I have not tried to stand in water all day long; but for wet grass, mud, and downpour conditions they are fine. I find the better commercial products all work equally well. I will try the toilet seal wax. As an aside GT will often let in water if the liner gets compromised in any way.
-
I'd like to see someone do a performance study on Goretex in boots after 1, 2, and 3 years of wear. I have little faith in its breathability after much wear, but I have no dispute with waterproofness as long as the liner isn't damaged.
I own a pair of triple-vamp Russell HCH boots. I love them, but they're NOT the boot for frequently wet conditions. No boot conditioner will totally exclude all moisture from leather. After several days of wet exposure, the leather gets wet and you'll deal with it. I have treated new Schnee's with the finest leather dressings available. After 6 days in the wet of Alaska bush, the leather absorbed moisture and was clammy. On a 7 degree night, they froze hard...for two of us.
The perfect boot for all conditions doesn't exist. Picking the best boot for your hunts is the real trick.
-
I'll stick with my GoreTex thanks. I had a pair of Meindl hikers that I used to run in every morning in Germany. Resoled them 3 times over a 14 year period. When the 3rd set of Vibram soles was worn down, I could still stand in the shallows at our lake and they were dry. With a pair of wool socks on it sure seemed to me they still breathed. The seams got to looking pretty ratty so I gave them a decent burial and bought a new pair from Cabala's.
I wear the uninsulated hikers for everything except cold weather sitting. For that, I have a pair of insulated high top Meindls that keep me toasty warm. Both are water-proof and I never get the sweating I get from rubber boots.
I've always wanted to try a pair of Russles, but wouldn't expect them to be water-proof.
-
Nothing beats Rubber for waterproofness. They also come in a variety of insulation weights. Early season I wear a pair of LL Bean Maine Hunting Boots uninsulated for early to mid season. I redo them with Mink Oil every now and again. As it gets cooler here I switch to my LaCrosse 1200 rubber boots. If I did purchase a leather pair for winter and cold weather hunting it would be a pair of Schnees. My 2 cents.
-
Montana Pitch Blend is the best leather conditioner and waterproofing dressing I have found.
-
I agree with Kevin Dill. I have had great luck with all of my Russells and Schnees. But no boot is perfect for all conditions. I use Sno Seal and Montana Pitch Blend.
-
Originally posted by Matt Fowler:
Montana Pitch Blend is the best leather conditioner and waterproofing dressing I have found.
DITTO I also use Huberd's boot Grease.
-
i also have no faith in goretex after alot of bad experiences, and have gone almost totally to quality leather boots or pac style boots, montana pitch blend has always done well for me..
-
Originally posted by knobby:
I agree with Hummer. The toilet seal wax really works.
you talking the wax ring for the toilet flange?
-
I've had a lot of leather boots over the years, none have ever been water proof like a rubber boot. I think it's probably unreasonable to expect them to be.
I always buy Red Wings, mainly because they come in extremely wide sizes, but they are also very good quality. I usually buy the Gore-Tex lining and it works for a while. The Gore-Tex gives out a lot sooner than the leather boot part, at least in my experience. The GT usually wears out in the areas that do the most bending, right around the top of the sole at the ball of my foot.
I just accept that the best I can expect from a leather boot is "temporary water resistance", not wading, not standing in water, but walk through a puddle or wet grass to to my stand type of water resistance. I put up with that weakness for the comfort of leather, I hate the feel of rubber boots after a while, too sweaty. If I have to wade, I take rubber boots and change into leather at my destination...yeah, it's a pain.
-
I used a pair of Keen hikers in Colorado this year that were supposedly lined with "Keen-Dry" technology. Walked in rain and/or wet grass and underbrush pretty much all day everyday of the trip.
Feet were soaked within the first hour of the day. Got a lot of people pointing me in the direction of Meindl boots thoroughly treated with Obenauf's boot treatment. I have the boots and have them treated, but haven't put them to the test yet.
-
I haven't worn a pair of leather boots deer hunting in nearly 15 years and have no plans on changing. I have never found a pair of leather boots that kept me 100% dry in all conditions. I'll stick with my LaCrosse uninsulated and Muck insulated for cold days.
Now for out west I wear a pair of Italiam made Vasque for dry days but go back to rubber if it is raining or snow.
-
If you want waterproof boots get rubber- don't rely on leather
-
Tons of good info and opinions. They are all appreciated. Generally my experiences seem to be right in line with what the rest of you have experienced with the various type of boots. I agree with the mantra that there is no one boot perfect in all conditions. The key is choosing the correct boot for the hunt...very well said.
Anyone else care to chime in?
Thanks.
-
Originally posted by Bladepeek:
I'll stick with my GoreTex thanks. I had a pair of Meindl hikers that I used to run in every morning in Germany. Resoled them 3 times over a 14 year period. When the 3rd set of Vibram soles was worn down, I could still stand in the shallows at our lake and they were dry. With a pair of wool socks on it sure seemed to me they still breathed. The seams got to looking pretty ratty so I gave them a decent burial and bought a new pair from Cabala's.
I wear the uninsulated hikers for everything except cold weather sitting. For that, I have a pair of insulated high top Meindls that keep me toasty warm. Both are water-proof and I never get the sweating I get from rubber boots.
X2 Only pair of waterproof boots that ever worked for me. Seriously. I understand what folks say about gotex and generally agree, but Meindl's has it figure out.
And I also agree on rubber boots...yes they are waterproof, but I sweat so much that I am wet from the inside...that does no good.
-
If your budget will allow, you can't beat a pair of Russell Moccasin's Grand Slam Sheep Hunter boots. All leather, handmade to measure, full leather lining and absolutely water proof. Any leather boot will require upkeep but it's not hard.
Just a tip. When you use wax based products, warm the boots with a handheld hair dryer, apply the product, then heat the wax to help the leather absorb it. Particularly at the welt area and seams.
-
Worth saying...
The guy who oversees production on Schnee's boots recently told me to seal my boot seams ONLY with Seam Grip sealant. His advice was to be sure the leather is dry and clear of surface waxes, greases, etc. Apply the Seam Grip as directed. Reapply it every two years on average. I would assume the same product would be fine for Russell boots. As far as dressings go, I follow the maker's advice every time. For an all-leather non-Gore-Tex boot, I give them a thorough application right before a hunt. I recommend you carry a small container of dressing with you, if going where water could be a constant. Apply it midway through the hunt.
-
Originally posted by Tajue17:
Originally posted by knobby:
I agree with Hummer. The toilet seal wax really works.
you talking the wax ring for the toilet flange? [/b]
yes good cheap soft wax...
-
Yes the toilet ring wax is the stuff that goes around the flange and sticks and seals the bottom of the toilet to the drain and creates a floor seal. I treated several pairs including my vasques, it works great, need to be done spring and fall if boots are wore a lot, I use a heat gun to apply.
-
Originally posted by nleroux2:
Just a tip. When you use wax based products, warm the boots with a handheld hair dryer, apply the product, then heat the wax to help the leather absorb it. Particularly at the welt area and seams.
x2 I will open the oven door with it on low and set the boots on the door and let the wax or other sealer warm up
-
i just use pitch blend on my leather
-
Thanks, all. Good stuff!
-
No leather boot will stay completely waterproof forever, no matter what the manufacturer says.
I've used SnoSeal, Montana Pitch blend and the like in the past but now use Obenauf's. It's quite a bit better in every respect. Most of these brands were developed in the northwest where wet conditions are the norm. But even with the best of treatment sooner or later in really wet conditions an all leather boot will get wet. That's what rubber boots are made for.
-
How Does putting heavy waterproof treatments on leather (Pitch Blend, SnoSeal, etc) affect breathability? Seems like it would have a negative impact but I don't have much experience here.
-
Good question. I have always wondered that, too. Looking forward to others' experiences.
-
Meindls, Obenauf and silicon spray worked very well this past year. Liners and good wool socks also.
-
I use the Red Wing stuff. Looks like Sno Seal but goes on alot easier and you don't heat. I am in and out all day, where I get alot of thawing and my feet are dry.
-
Hunting from a tent in the Rockies isn't like to come back home everynight.
I had any kind of weather and also GT don't last many days dry in wet snow or wet grass. I find the Meidle to be some of the best boots for the Mountain,but to be completely waterproof they don't have to have many miles on the soles.
If I wear my lovely Russell,I change them every other day.
Also giving the the best of the cares they don't stay dry for more than 2 days in a row,but I love them anyway.
-
breathability and waterproofness does not usually go hand in hand unless using one of the new space age materials similar to GoreTex...but dirty goretex will leak like a siv...as the water will soak through the membrane using the dirt as the transfer agent...it has to be clean. With boots you cant clean it so sweat and stuff makes it ineffective after a few months in my opinion and experience.
I prefer rubber boots for total waterproofness...but if wearing Bean styled boots with leather uppers I will treat them with PitchBlend.
I clean them first then at room temp rub a good coat of Pitch Blend on them everywhere...sewing seams, edges, tongue, gusset, uppers, etc.
Then get hair dryer and heat them until they soak in all the pitch blend....then while still warm I rub another coat on them. Repeat with hair dryer.
I do this three or four times or until it wont soak any more. Let sit couple hours to cool and then get a rag and wipe off any excess PB that is squeezed back out the pores when they shrink from cooling.
THat is as waterproof as you can get and will last a full season or two before you will want to heat them up and add another coat but will only take one coat usually after that...and smells nice too.
I have not tried the Muck boots..might be best of both worlds...but I know PitchBlend works great....
-
Like Felix said, I bring a couple pair of boots when I hunt and switch every day. My Russells have always kept my feet dry.
-
Any kind of dressing will cut down on breathability, so put more on when it's wet and less on when it's hot and dry.
-
I am thinking meindle boots with a few two tracks wool insoles could be the key this year.
-
can always get military styled jungle boots....then a couple pairs of SealSkinz...waterproof socks. Water drains out of boots...feet stay dry from SealSkinz.
-
Originally posted by Brock:
can always get military styled jungle boots....then a couple pairs of SealSkinz...waterproof socks. Water drains out of boots...feet stay dry from SealSkinz.
How are the SealSkinz for comfort and blister protection?
All the new posts are appreciated. Thanks.
-
Nothing is perfect, but for my money, Obenauf's is the best.
-
Speaking from some degree of experience, I can say that boots easily collect moisture on the inside during daily wear on a hunt. The right socks help, but eventually the boot material gains moisture. Whether it dries or not is a function of many things like humidity, air temp, external moisture, and efforts to dry them out. A Gore-Tex liner helps keep feet dry and helps exclude external moisture from the foot, but it does nothing to keep the outer boot dry. You can have waterlogged boots and still your feet don't get soaked.
As Ron pointed out, correctly treating the leather is key to moisture exclusion. Don't forget to seal those seams with a dedicated product, because greases won't reliably stop moisture from getting past needle holes and mated seams. I haven't found anything which will keep leather fully dry in constant wetness and high humidity. That's where additional steps come in, like changing socks, liners, stuffing with newspaper, additional heat.
Newspaper is an old reliable trick for absorbing moisture. Someone needs to invent a super-absorbent boot stuffing which does the same thing. Stuff them in your damp boots tonight, pull out and hang in the morning...boots are dry inside.
-
Just be careful you aren't using any petroleum based product on your leather ie: Neatsfoot oil. It will degrade it over time and that's why museums don't use it on their leather. I've used SnoSeal and it's a beeswax based product. Trouble is a lot of products don't advertise what is in them. I used to use SnoSeal on my LL Beans and the leather was like new but the rubber rotted out so the leather outlasted the rubber.
The best leather boots for being waterproof are my Meindle Perfekt Hikers and mine are going on 3 seasons. Good enough to walk all day in snow, wade into a puddle to retrieve an errant arrow or walk in rain.
-
For daily wear putting your boots on something like a Peets Shoe Dryer at night helps alot!
-
I've used snoSeal with good results. I walk through a lot of wet grassy fields while hunting and it hasn't let me down. You have to reapply often as it does get worn off. All the others work just as well and montana pitch will lubricate also, but it is easy to find snoseal in the local hardware store and it has worked well for me.
-
I use Dri-Boot, which has has worked in limited use. Heat up with blow dyer and work it in all the seams. It is basically wax.
But I'm still partial to rubber boots. . . .
-
Originally posted by Kevin Hansen:
Originally posted by Brock:
can always get military styled jungle boots....then a couple pairs of SealSkinz...waterproof socks. Water drains out of boots...feet stay dry from SealSkinz.
How are the SealSkinz for comfort and blister protection?
All the new posts are appreciated. Thanks. [/b]
Personally I dont like them if I am walking a lot...putting a pair of synthetic socks on first...then putting SealSkinz over them...and then your boots is a big difference in comfort.
I actually dont wear them anymore...if warm weather would rather get wet and change out my socks a couple times a day to be truthful. LOL
-
Bentpole on the first page mentioned the LLbean maine hunting boots, I deffinately have to give props to them they are fantastic boots and worth the price. work the leather with snoseal or something similar around the seams. totaly waterproof!
L.R.
-
Still trying to figure out how to get this damn toilet seal to fit over my Russells.
I've beat on it for a half an hour now with the blow dryer.........
-
Originally posted by Otto:
Still trying to figure out how to get this damn toilet seal to fit over my Russells.
I've beat on it for a half an hour now with the blow dryer.........
Finally, some useful information!!! Thanks for the laugh.
-
Great info.
With 20+ years of Gore tex boots I am generally unhappy with them afte 1-3 years. IE: wet feet. Even with proper care and sealants.
It is quite wet here in the Pacific NW.
Mine have all leaked except my 15 yr old Vasqu all leather sundowner.
Even my 400.00 Gortex North Face Jacket lets in water and I have fully taken good care of it. I follow all directions for proper care. Yes, I'm disappointed.
Now that I pretty much live in a rain forest I need a good solution for LONG hikes. The Mendl's sound appealing.
If its a short hike it's the muck boots for waterproof, as much as I hate rubber boots.
-
Hislight, I feel your pain.
-
Keep at it Kevin Hansen even if you start feeling a little flush then after a long days hunt stuff the inside with toilet paper to draw out the moisture and you'll get the run of it.
-
Otto try a plunging motion.lol
-
Your humor is appreciated!