Extremely Frustrated With Bear Archery!!! A few weeks ago I purchased my first Bear T/D "A" Riser. It was gorgeous, beautiful black maple, but the lower limb latch was off a bit and needed replacing. Contacted Bear, they told me to mail the riser back and they would replace the riser with a new 2014 two-tone riser. I'm thinking "Sweet"!
Tuesday there is a package at the door. From Gainesville. Oooh, honey/kids look, here's my new two-tone, minty fresh riser!
Nope. What they sent was a pathetic looking maple "A" riser. This thing looks like it's had chemicals or cigarettes on it at some point. A factory second at best. Not minty. Not two-tone. Not gorgeous. Not good.
So now I'm out a gorgeous, beautiful riser that just needed a new latch, and instead have a POS staring back at me. Below are pics of the gorgeous hottie and the abhorrent replacement. See if you can tell which is which. Ugh!!!
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g383/amzlongbow/022.jpg) (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/amzlongbow/media/022.jpg.html)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g383/amzlongbow/004-6.jpg) (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/amzlongbow/media/004-6.jpg.html)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g383/amzlongbow/003-4.jpg) (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/amzlongbow/media/003-4.jpg.html)
:scared: :knothead:
I'll bet you'll be at there booth tomorrow in kazoo...
Unreal
I think you should contact Bear again and give them a chance to make it right.
I can't believe any one in there right mind would ship that...
:smileystooges: :smileystooges:
Are those blemishes in the wood or spots where the stain didnt take?
I would call them to see if they can switch it.
Bizzare!
Sorry about your situation. "I WAS" in the market for another "BEAR" bow but after seein this I have 2nd thoughts... thanks for sharin.
What was wrong with the latch?
Mitch, I'll be talking to the Bear boys tomorrow at Kzoo, guaranteed.
Charlie, I think a little of both...blemishes in the wood that didn't take the stain.
I still can't figure how they could ship this out and think it approached any level of quality. And to say we're sending you the new model, then switch to this? I'd be overjoyed to have my first riser back, it just needed a new latch!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by jeff w:
What was wrong with the latch?
The locator screw was off a bit and wouldn't allow the lower limb to seat.
yeah... that should have never left ANY factory or shop. Cut stuff like that in 1/2.
That's Pitiful-saw several reasons not to own a Bear product on here in the last few months. Hope you get your satisfaction from them.
I've seen several pictures on different sites this past year showing the same thing on the black maple.
One example had so much of the light areas that it would almost look nice, except it was only on one side of the bow.
I'm surprised that something like that would leave the shop too.
QuoteOriginally posted by Florida lime:
I've seen several pictures on different sites this past year showing the same thing on the black maple.
One example had so much of the light areas that it would almost look nice, except it was only on one side of the bow.
I'm surprised that something like that would leave the shop too.
Exactly what I was going to post, I'll bet we've seen the same photos. Apparently Bear ships them with the excuse that "some like that look". Maybe true, but I think it looks like a reject too.
Just a human mistake. Betting they resolve it.
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
Just a human mistake. Betting they resolve it.
yea but one that should have never happened, that kind of customer service is unacceptable to me. Tell em to make it right ...
I'd be very unhappy myself.
I bought one with allot of white in it thought it looked cool!
I wish you luck........ :dunno:
I went thru 3 of them last year from 3 rivers because of the loose latches, had to give up on the bear takedown.
I would not want one like that either so not making excuses, but some of the old "greenies" with the white (where wood did not take dye) look mighty cool.
I might find one of these with more white attractive too.
Again, no excuses, you ordered black and wanted black.
I would recommend they sell the ones with the white as "seconds" or via some means where folks can see before they buy.
I'm not taking Bear Archery's side on this matter, but I find it interesting how fast people jump on the bandwagon to bash Bear Archery today.
My point is, if you or I were to have an issue with a bow we received from Tall Tines or Schafer or Stalker or another custom bowyer, we would go to great links to resolve the matter in private without tossing our issues out there on a public forum.
I had a horrible experience with a custom bowyer several years ago and only myself, the bowyer and a few close friends know anything about it.
I'm sure Bear Archery will get this one right eventually. Neil Byce is a standup guy and he and others are working hard to keep a traditional archery line alive at Bear Archery in a high tech, 350 fps, parallel limb, profit driven corporate world.
I wouldn't be happy with the riser you received either, but at least in your case the "bowyer" made an attempt to make it right and will likely make another and another until you are satisfied. I was told by the "custom" bowyer I had a bad experience with, to live with it or sell it and get back in line for another. No thanks
It's not a Grayling versus Gainesville thing either. Quite a few bows were returned to Grayling back in the day. Fred Bear stood behind them then and Bear Archery and Escalade Sports stand behind them today. Bear bows are mass produced. That's just the way it is, and the way it has been since Bear Archery started using fiberglass on limbs around 1950. They aren't Custom bows and haven't been since Nels Grumley stood at a shaving horse in the 1940s.
Even though they are production bows they still aren't cheap and you should get a product you can be proud to own. Stick with it and I bet you'll get a good one. Bear will make it right.
DD
I guess I'm not familiar enough with the takedown system, but why would they exchange it instead of repairing your original riser?
expecting quality as advertised product is not "bashing"... Its holding companies accountable for basic standards.
Shipping a riser with obvious flaws, even cosmetic, should be a huge NO for any company that wants to stay in business.
Well first off there quality control is suffering lets not forget his first riser had a bad latch why they just wouldn't send him a new latch I don't understand and then to say they would send him a,new 2014 2 tone riser to make him feel ok about sending back his riser that just needed a latch and then to send him a reject riser like they did. That's not a human error. That's someone trying to pull something and get away with it or its,someone who does not care.
It's like when you order a pizza and you get a burnt one. They knew it was burnt when they put it in the box.
Frustration is a pretty reasonable feeling. I really hope they get this fixed for you. Let us know...
I've always been a big Bear fan. My very first recurve when I was 12 was a Bear. But in today's world of functional art customs I cannot justify paying Bear's new prices/MSRP for their top range bows, simply for a name and 'history'. There are too many other choices where my dollar will go farther or at least pay for a good chunk on something better. I wish the company all the best and know that there are many loyal fans who will keep them making bows. Hopefully issues like this are far and few between. If not, then they should quit.
I have five of the new risers now, Diamondwood, Bubinga, Maple, and a total of six sets of the new limbs. I also have one of the 2014 two toned bows on order. I have owned custom bows by Bighorn, Black Widow, Hummingbird, Robertson,etc., and the new Bears don't give up anything performance wise to any of the customs I have owned. I did have a problem with the limbs on one of my bows and I couldn't be happier with the way that Bear customer service handled it. They are working hard to uphold the Bear name and product line. I would be disappointed in the riser that you recieved myself, as would anyone. Carry it to Kalamazo with you and they will take care of you. Let us know how it is resolved.
The poster stated it was a latch problem, later corrected himself and said it was a mis-aligned locator pin.
I guess mistakes do happen.......
I think this topic was covered about a month ago.
Maybe it's their version of "Pierce Points"? :eek:
I too would be upset and I'll be on the phone again and trying to get this resolved...
Did you contact them again about it?
Maybe they could take those "seconds" and spray them factory camo like they used too :) ))) I would be all over that!
QuoteOriginally posted by Pokerdaddy:
QuoteOriginally posted by jeff w:
What was wrong with the latch?
The locator screw was off a bit and wouldn't allow the lower limb to seat. [/b]
Please come by the G Fred Asbell booth and tell me how they resolved it. That's awful.
I think I would have given Bear a chance to "make things right" before using the "nuclear option" and going on the forums. A year or so ago I bought three sets of very high performance, very expensive, ILF/DAS limbs for hunting from a well known manufacturer. In the following 10 months I had a total of four limb failures as they were replaced. However, I didn't go on the forums with it because the maker made it right every time, and did so quickly. I am all for holding manufacturers accountable but I am also all for giving them the opportunity to clear the issues up in a timely manner.
The frustration comes from the fact that their replacement/fix was shoddy, and seen as an acceptable fix. I know of no bowyers or businesses in the archery community that would consider this quality customer service.
I just received this response from Bear, after I expressed my frusration to them:
" those are birth marks where the wood and caused by the wood grains being so tight that they would not except the wood dye......not defective, and usually the birth marks are more rare than the other bows."
let us know what they say when u speak with them one on one this weekend.
Looks like someone was in a hurry to go home for the day and threw it in the mail. I'd give them a chance to make it right, and send what they told you they were going to send. Hope you didn't throw the box away...that needs to go back. Good luck.
Big Jim is a sponsor here and does quite a bit of dealing with Bear. I know he thinks Bear is on the right track these days, but would like to know his thoughts on this issue.
Over the past 3 or 4 years I've seen quite a few positive comments regarding Bear products, but it only takes a bad one like this to turn folks off.
I have a couple of the new TD's and the new 59 model...and very happy with them. My bet is that Bear will make things right.
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
Just a human mistake. Betting they resolve it.
Maybe not a popular opinion, but I appreciate posts like this. It is great when a manufacturer makes right on a problem, but when there are repeated problems or a manufacturer doesn't stand behind the product, prospective customers have a right to know. How else can one make an informed decision? That should be true regardless of who yhe manufacture is, IMHO. Then again, I don't make the rules.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pokerdaddy:
The frustration comes from the fact that their replacement/fix was shoddy, and seen as an acceptable fix. I know of no bowyers or businesses in the archery community that would consider this quality customer service.
I just received this response from Bear, after I expressed my frusration to them:
" those are birth marks where the wood and caused by the wood grains being so tight that they would not except the wood dye......not defective, and usually the birth marks are more rare than the other bows."
ARE YOU KIDDING??????
:eek: :eek: :confused: :confused:
X2 :knothead: :knothead: :knothead:
I'll bet that riser is worth $1,200.00 as it is so rare...
What a crazy response, I mean c'mon.....
I too appreciate this post and will watching for the outcome.
Their response is more offensive than the original mistake.
That second riser is a joke - trying to salvage a piece of wood has pissed off more people than you. I myself had someone try to salvage a crap riser - "No More For You" says my wallet.
Bring that to the show and I'm sure they will make it right - be happy they will be at the show.
I too appreciate this post... It is great that we have the power of the WWW to solve problems. There has been many problems resolved from WWW, and there has been some businesses go down in a tail spin due to the WWW.
Right will prevail in the end. I do believe that Bear Archery will make this right in the end, they cannot afford to leave this problem unresolved.
BTW..
I think the "wood so compressed/ won't take stain" story is BS
Those look like glue filled voids to me.
Glue doesn't take stain.. wood does
You can see in the upper riser white spots there's a black spot in the middle. That looks to me like the wood is stained behind the glue filled void and they almost sanded through the filled void....
I'm not taking any side in this, but the stain story may not be a "story". Bighorn bows (Ramwood) used to have some areas that didn't take stain like the rest of the riser. Without being able to see the riser in person I won't say what it is. The ones I saw didn't look exactly like this, but could be the cause.
There are many ways that this could have gone. unfortunately a second mistake was made instead of getting things right the first time.
I prefer the risers that didn't take the dye completely as they are unique. The marks in this are just imbedded natural blemishes and are certainly not attractive.
I am certain they would make it right given the chance. I can see though that there are many here that wouldn't give them the chance and prefer to burn them at the stake.
This is not one person building bows and then deciding weather or not you deserve good treatment or not. There are many people responsible for what goes in and out and they are incredibly behind and unfortunately mistakes happen, sometimes back to back for whatever reason.
I have been to the plant a few times and I get the feeling that their employees are very happy with their employment and enjoy their jobs. They are certainly friendly and very helpful.
Instead of starting a witch hunt out in the open for every body to crap on Bear, this should have been taken to them first. Bear will make around 9,000 traditional bows in the up coming year and there will be a few issues and Bear will take care of them.
I choose to sell Bear because I like who and what they are. I could sell anything if I chose to.
Sometimes I feel ashamed...and not of Bear!
BigJim
QuoteOriginally posted by BigJim:
There are many ways that this could have gone. unfortunately a second mistake was made instead of getting things right the first time.
I prefer the risers that didn't take the dye completely as they are unique. The marks in this are just imbedded natural blemishes and are certainly not attractive.
I am certain they would make it right given the chance. I can see though that there are many here that wouldn't give them the chance and prefer to burn them at the stake.
This is not one person building bows and then deciding weather or not you deserve good treatment or not. There are many people responsible for what goes in and out and they are incredibly behind and unfortunately mistakes happen, sometimes back to back for whatever reason.
I have been to the plant a few times and I get the feeling that their employees are very happy with their employment and enjoy their jobs. They are certainly friendly and very helpful.
Instead of starting a witch hunt out in the open for every body to crap on Bear, this should have been taken to them first. Bear will make around 9,000 traditional bows in the up coming year and there will be a few issues and Bear will take care of them.
I choose to sell Bear because I like who and what they are. I could sell anything if I chose to.
Sometimes I feel ashamed...and not of Bear!
BigJim
Words spoken by a custom bowyer that would probably never let that riser out of his shop but knows how it could easily happen at a shop cranking out bows by the 1000s. Even Twice.
You're a compassionate man Big Jim, thanks for weighing in on this one. :thumbsup:
:deadhorse:
I guess you don't understand my point.
QuoteOriginally posted by TRAP:
QuoteOriginally posted by BigJim:
There are many ways that this could have gone. unfortunately a second mistake was made instead of getting things right the first time.
I prefer the risers that didn't take the dye completely as they are unique. The marks in this are just imbedded natural blemishes and are certainly not attractive.
I am certain they would make it right given the chance. I can see though that there are many here that wouldn't give them the chance and prefer to burn them at the stake.
This is not one person building bows and then deciding weather or not you deserve good treatment or not. There are many people responsible for what goes in and out and they are incredibly behind and unfortunately mistakes happen, sometimes back to back for whatever reason.
I have been to the plant a few times and I get the feeling that their employees are very happy with their employment and enjoy their jobs. They are certainly friendly and very helpful.
Instead of starting a witch hunt out in the open for every body to crap on Bear, this should have been taken to them first. Bear will make around 9,000 traditional bows in the up coming year and there will be a few issues and Bear will take care of them.
I choose to sell Bear because I like who and what they are. I could sell anything if I chose to.
Sometimes I feel ashamed...and not of Bear!
BigJim
Words spoken by a custom bowyer that would probably never let that riser out of his shop but knows how it could easily happen at a shop cranking out bows by the 1000s. Even Twice.
You're a compassionate man Big Jim, thanks for weighing in on this one. :thumbsup: [/b]
You guys are on the right page here.... I just don't understand why posts are made like this?
Pardon me for being blunt. But this is a great archery forum and we can do without posts like this. Fred Bear would say "Shame on you."
good greif brutha... Get a grip.
I feel that posts like this have their place just as much as praise and chest thumping ones. I for one will follow this to see the outcome, and it very well may be followed by some praise. One mans review should be taken as that.
QuoteOriginally posted by jrchambers:
I feel that posts like this have their place just as much as praise and chest thumping ones. I for one will follow this to see the outcome, and it very well may be followed by some praise. One mans review should be taken as that.
Agree
QuoteOriginally posted by jrchambers:
I feel that posts like this have their place just as much as praise and chest thumping ones. I for one will follow this to see the outcome, and it very well may be followed by some praise. One mans review should be taken as that.
Well said.
I feel like they should give you another riser and sell that one as a discounted second. Maybe someone else would like it as a "rare find". Nothing against Bear Archery at all, thats just good business.
I am with Big Jim on this one
I see both sides on this one, but regardless which side you are on, I am sure you will agree with three things.
1. That riser should have never been let out of the factory.
2. In a day when money is hard to come by, I am sure we would feel different if it was our hard earned money that was on the line with two defective risers in return.
3. Bear should have ample opportunity to make it right before we jump to conclusions about their products and customer service.
QuoteOriginally posted by jrchambers:
I feel that posts like this have their place just as much as praise and chest thumping ones. I for one will follow this to see the outcome, and it very well may be followed by some praise. One mans review should be taken as that.
Well said x 2, the author spent his hard earned money on this riser. I dont think his intent was to bash Bear. He's just stating the facts. Maybe they will read this thread and learn from it.
Some of my best learning experiences in life have been a direct result of mistakes Ive made.
QuoteOriginally posted by jrchambers:
I feel that posts like this have their place just as much as praise and chest thumping ones. I for one will follow this to see the outcome, and it very well may be followed by some praise. One mans review should be taken as that.
I am in agreement with this, as well. One of the largest internet sporting goods stores has a section for customer reviews. They post both the good and the bad, and then the prospective customer gets to make a more informed decision. Unfortunately, nothing like this really exists in the traditional archery world. There are plenty of companies that have gone out of business, and some of them because of a poor quality product and some due to poor customer service. Unfortunately, a lot of customers had to get burned before the word got out. I am not even remotely suggesting that this is the case for Bear Archery. I am just saying that a customers negative experience is just as valid as anothers that had a positive experience to someone considering making a purchase.
I met with Mr. Neil Byce, Bear Archery Operations Manager, this evening at the Trad Expo in Kzoo.
Mr. Byce was 100% committed to seeing that I receive a riser that is a 100% perfect riser for me.
We had a wonderful converation, and I left knowing that Bear Archery would make it right.
I'm sorry if my initial post overly bashed Bear. I do feel it was an accurate snapshot of my frustration, which probably did not need to be aired on a public forum.
Shame on who? This statement cracks me up Kirk. Its like saying shame on my mother for busting my mouth or holding me accountable when I was out of line.
Good for the both of you, Im glad bear took care of you.
Glad to hear that it worked out for you. As I said above, I had a problem with one of my Bear takedowns a year or so back. I was more impressed with the way the complaint was handled by the customer service department than any other aspect of my transaction. Like I said, Neil and the guys down in Fla are good people and I felt sure they would take care of you.
Post up some photos when you get your bow together.
No worries-spend your hard earned money and want what you paid for. Glad they were there for you!
Well, there you go. A lot of information to be had. I am glad that they will be making the situation right for you.
This was an informative post, and good to see the bear rep understood your frustration. I hope pokerdaddy will follow up with how it all turns out with riser #3.
Tradarchers are humans with a great passion for what they do, for the bows and arrows they take in the woods. I can understand the frustration.
Great it turned out for you with the correction from
Bear . no shame for anybody ..
QuoteOriginally posted by Pokerdaddy:
I met with Mr. Neil Byce, Bear Archery Operations Manager, this evening at the Trad Expo in Kzoo.
Mr. Byce was 100% committed to seeing that I receive a riser that is a 100% perfect riser for me.
We had a wonderful converation, and I left knowing that Bear Archery would make it right.
I'm sorry if my initial post overly bashed Bear. I do feel it was an accurate snapshot of my frustration, which probably did not need to be aired on a public forum.
:clapper: I'm glad its going to work out.
I would like to thank you for sharing your experience with us. I do think there should be a place for honest reviews both good and bad. Years ago when I used to rock climb the magazines used to give these types of honest reviews. Maybe they did that since a lot more was on the line than just money.
glad it's working out and I agree that there should be a place for honest reviews both good and bad.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pokerdaddy:
I met with Mr. Neil Byce, Bear Archery Operations Manager, this evening at the Trad Expo in Kzoo.
Mr. Byce was 100% committed to seeing that I receive a riser that is a 100% perfect riser for me.
We had a wonderful converation, and I left knowing that Bear Archery would make it right.
I'm sorry if my initial post overly bashed Bear. I do feel it was an accurate snapshot of my frustration, which probably did not need to be aired on a public forum.
wish I was there!
Good too hear for sure.
I did NOT want to loose faith in Bear.
No matter what is said here, this was a negative thread that will probably still have very little impact on Bear. All they can do is there best yet people will make mistakes anyway. Do you really think they are trying to screw anybody?
If they refused to remedy the problem, I could understand all the negativity and the same with any other company that would not take care of business but this was never allowed to reach fruition before it was aired.
On another site, right in the middle of a promotion that I was doing on the blemished arrows, a disgruntled customer stated that"IMHO BIgJims has very poor customer service" (first that is not a humble opinion and second he had only ever done business with us one time)apparently we had forgotten to cut his shafts before sending them out. He contacted us and I spoke to him..apologized and said we would send him return shipping and get everything taken care of.
Problem is that he spoke to me personally and I dropped the ball as I have done before. It "likely" would have never happened if he had spoken to someone in the office but they were slammed and I was running overflow off of overflow (this can happen when we get the gold tip blems in). No excuse, but with everything we try to do here just to make a living, I get sidetracked and forget things. The shipping label never got sent. Instead of questioning us again (yes, he should not of had to do that), no more was said until my next post. I had no idea I had a disgruntled customer out there.
Funny thing is only one person came to my support and thankfully no one jumped on the band wagon. Yes, we have made more than a few mistakes as do many others companies, but no one who cares tries to make them.
Don't think for a minute that only money paid to employees is hard earned and that money going to business's is gathered in with rakes.
Lets start a negative thread about all the mistakes we have made here at BIgJIms. I hate to say it but it might rival my pigs and peanut butter thread. I'm just kidding..we don't need to start that thread.
BIgJIm
I think some things that make Tradgang so great are the same things that make it not the best place to make a bow purchase decision. An honest exchange of information around a campfire would most certainly include some bad experiences with bows over the years. Would that be the deciding factor to a well informed buyer? I doubt it but who knows.
A new bow purchase for a lot of us (myself incuded) is a sizable investment and traveling to places like Kzoo is not in the budget. So tying before buying isn't an option unless I want to shoot the same thing my buddy shoots down the road.
It seems us Tradgangers don't have any problem with honest opinions of broadheads, backpacks, arrows and such. If there is a bad batch of nocks or carbon we hear about it but when bowyers come into to play we are tight lipped.
We are smart enough to weed out witch hunts or people that were placed on this planet solely to complain. I would rather sort through that information and make my decision than give $800 of my hard earned money to a guy and not be happy because no one wanted to say they didn't like something.
If the problem is something the bowyer can fix by all means deal with it privately. If it can't be fixed, its a design flaw, wont work for a certain draw, has overall poor workmanship, bad shooting characteristics, bad customer service, or sub par materials used I want to know.
Rob w well said. No doubt Bear would resolve this. Information is powerful. I also agree that honest feedback is good especially on a high Priced bow custom or not.
I'm in the same camp of wanting to know of negative experiences regardless.
I stick to reliable bowyers I'm familiar with. I also agree with your comments that good or bad feedback shouldn't be hidden behind a curtain.
No one is perfect and neither is any business. Good things can happen from bad situations. Read the Black Widow threads and you will see a common theme of outstanding customer service. If I could afford to do business with them there would be no worry on my part about them taking care of me. Communication from the business is key to resolving issues and inspiring consumer confidence. With this philosophy you will look at problems as opportunities to shine. We have great vendors in the trad industry and we want all of them to succeed.
i think this all started with poor quality control.
that riser never should of had latches put on it to begin with.
it should have been pitched into the firewood bin as soon as it came from the stain room.
im sure whoever put the latches on it seen the problem.
maybe send it to the dip tank for camoing.(im sure theres a market)
it was probably already in a box when the shipper sent it, so its not there falt.
I assume the employees don't have enough control to do such things on there own.
its all on quality control for letting this slip past (how many people)?
I don't usually post on these kind of threads,
just thought I would throw my 2 cents on the table.
glad its taken care of, bear has a reputation they need to protect, hope they do better down the road.
Good thread ,bad thread...we all have our opinions. :thumbsup: and the rest of us can say that we can still deal with Bear with some confidence. :clapper:
Just as I suspected, they made right by you. :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by Josh Perdue:
Shame on who? This statement cracks me up Kirk. Its like saying shame on my mother for busting my mouth or holding me accountable when I was out of line.
Good for the both of you, Im glad bear took care of you.
This whole thing should have been discretely handled in person with Bear Archery managers in the first place. Bringing it to a public forum is shameful. It discredits a really fine company that has been in business for many years.
With a production operation there's always going to be blem's that get missed here and there and get delivered to the customer. To make a public drama about it is just wrong IMO. Of course Bear is going to make it right....
It did not discredit Bear Archery at all :saywhat: .....they made it good and we all now know it!! If anything it was a public service.
This thread has only shown some truths.
Sometimes Bear risers have white spots.
Some one at Bear thought a riser with white spots was ok to send as a replacement..or cleared it as ok before it was put in a box that some one else then shipped out.
Mr. Neil Byce, Bear Archery Operations Manager at the Bear booth in K-zoo seemed to care about his customer and reassured the customer that he'd be happy in the end.
...I just hope for Bear and the customer, he will be satisfied this time around.
There is no shame in telling the truth.
...it's the actions being talked about that might be shameful.
being I've owned Bear bows most of my Life, I'm glad to see they will make it right!! I have others but bear has been my favorite since 1968!
LarryDawg
I have nothing but good things to say about Mr. Byce @ Bear Archery.
I agree with KirkII on this issue. This thread will be here long after your issue with Bear Archery is resolved. Which means its open to the world wide web for anyone to see. In the future it might be better to consider dealing directly with the company first to resolve issues before jumping the gun to the forums. Remember lots of folks work at Bear and make a living at Bear or any other company for that matter....maybe even the one you work at. Nobody wants to lose a hard earned dollar in personal pay due to unwarranted bad press. If Bear had not fixed your issue dealing directly....then by all means flame away on the forums. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Pokerdaddy:
The frustration comes from the fact that their replacement/fix was shoddy, and seen as an acceptable fix. I know of no bowyers or businesses in the archery community that would consider this quality customer service.
I just received this response from Bear, after I expressed my frusration to them:
" those are birth marks where the wood and caused by the wood grains being so tight that they would not except the wood dye......not defective, and usually the birth marks are more rare than the other bows."
Once again, I am glad Bear stepped up to the plate. What I don't understand are the comments saying that he should have taken it up directly with the company. He clearly did that on two separate occasions when there were problems, and then he didn't hide the fact that the company resolved the issue in the end. I am just wondering, when exactly does it become 'warranted' bad press instead of unwarranted? Some guidelines would be helpful.
I'd like to approach this situation from a different place -
Albeit I'm only 24, I've learned some invaluable life lessons/tricks from great folks (Jim Rohn, Zig Ziggler, among many others), one of which applies here.
first off, having worked for multiple large corporations/companies - I can tell you first hand, that a large majority of their call center employees aren't call center employees for life. It's a means to an end for them, and when their home life sucks, and a disgruntled customer calls in with a 'bad' attitude, it takes a very special individual to go the extra mile as Fred Bear would like to turn their frustration into a success story.
That being said - the lesson I've learned having seen first hand that the people you will be working with to get these problems resolved are also HUMAN BEINGS, and realizing that we, as PEOPLE, respond to sincere, heart felt appeals, and not demands, frustration etc - the phrase that will turn what would most likely end in "sorry sir, that's our policy" or "there's nothing else I can do", into you smiling from ear to ear, feeling like you're their most important customer ever, is::::
"Hey Jim (Bear rep as example), so I'm not wanting to get anyone in any hot water over this, but it would really mean a lot to me if we could get a problem worked out that's really been weighing me down this week. (now go into explaining what's going on) - offer to pay any shipping etc they may require of you (even though we already know good companies like bear archery will say "oh no, don't worry about that") - basically what you want to convey is that you understand that a mistake has been made, it's no one's fault, but it would mean the world to you if you could have some care from another human being in getting the issue resolved.
I can tell you from working call centers for 2+ years, when customers would call in with this attitude, I would go to hell and back for them, calling departments I had no business calling, pretending to be a supervisor just to make sure my customer was taken care of. When you treat someone with praise and adoration, you have just made their day, and it's only natural for them to want to reciprocate that love and help you, even if it means breaking the rules.
I know this is kind of lengthy, but i hope this may be a more resourceful way to approach problems we come in contact with in businesses, remembering that the PEOPLE, we actually interact with bleed, breath, and at the end of the day, lay down and bawl their eyes out with their own sadness from time to time.
Love those with whom you come in contact. When we go out of our way to befriend people in a position to help us, they will more often than not, break the rules to help a friend. (Wouldn't you?)
-Alex
While working a booth at Kalamazoo this weekend two guys were standing there talking about how there Bear take down bows make noise when they draw there bows back and how each tried different things to quiet them down. One mentioned that at the cost of the bows they shouldn't have to experiment with there bows to quiet them down and that the older takedowns didn't have the noise making problem. I suggested that they take it up with the Bear rep that was there.
I don't have a dog in this hunt but this is an example of three expensive bow owners having problems and I guess you wonder "why". Is there a problem with quality control somewhere down the line.
My dad owned an archery shop back in the 60's and told my brother and I one day that "we don't make anything in here. We sell service and if the service is no good we might as well close the doors."
I am certainly not making that suggestion but maybe Bear needs to take a long look at their quality control.
Just my thoughts on a cold snowed in Sunday morning.
Here's the thing Jon, there is only three minor things that have changed about their take downs in many many years (other than wood choices).
They have put brass sleeves in the alignment holes, they changed the screw that holds the lever clip in place and they are fast flite compatible, they even build them the same way.
All take downs are capable of making a little noise and they were 40 years ago too. Oh yeah, they had risers that didn't take complete dye back then too.
Complaints of customer service are nothing new to any company as customers "demand" perfection and satisfaction.
The few minor little things a customer can do to quiet an occasionally "noisy" bow are very minor and cost nothing but a little tinker time.
There is no way that Bear could test for this on every bow and if they could it would cost you more anyway.
Those that think this bow is expensive(for what it is)are not being realistic.
Can you even imagine how many calls they get a week from people that are trying to pull a fast one on them. We are just a small company and it happens to us all the time.
We have had people try to return a defective item to us that we don't even sell and be adamant that they bought it from us.
I once had a customer complain that all the feathers were coming off his arrows that we had fletched. If it was just one, I would have taken care of it anyway....when we got them back (we paid return shipping and already had sent out replacements) there was only the tip of one feather on one arrow of a dozen that was lifting.
As I said, I would have taken care of it anyway but he felt he had to make it out to be a whole lot worse to get "satisfaction" that he was going to get anyway.
BigJIm
I saw some really great Bear bows at Kalamazoo and the guys working the booth were class acts.
Big Jim - I never replied to your email back about the Cheyenne. I should've let you know that I was going to K-zoo and going to check it out there.
Looks like a great bow but the grip wasn't my style.
Now, Bear NAILED that 59er Kodiak. Absolutely nailed it. Beautiful bows....and the Super Kodiak just melts in your hand...
Thank you for the quick reply to my email Jim and I thank the folks at Bear for funding a booth at Kalamazoo and showing us all some great bows. I know if I do ever buy a new Bear bow it will be from Big Jim, and that 59'er has the wheels turning....
Well I have a beef with you Big JIm. There were only 12 arrows in that dozen blems I just got, LOL.
Great looking arrows and I am really looking forward to tossing them down range next week.
Some are quick to complain and slow to compliment and I must say I ordered blems from Big Jim and two days later they were at my door.
Same here on Big Jim. I ordered a few dozen blems online and after I sent the order on its way I realized I could probably could use a couple rolls of fletching tape to put em together. Silly me, if I would had been using my head I could have saved a little over $6 on shipping had I put it on the original order. Well my Blems and tape were on my porch in two days and a couple of days later I receive an email from Big Jim that they were crediting me the extra $6 shipping fee. Never asked for it, never contacted him about it, my mistake. Now that's service.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Big Jim and Tim at Braveheart. They take customer service to the next level
:clapper: :clapper:
I gauge a business not on mistakes , but on how they resolve issues. A business will always have issues to deal with.
I saw the riser in question.....Pokerdaddy brought it by our booth. I wouldn't have been happy with it either. No question I would have been upset by it. For what it's worth, Pokerdaddy had an absolute legitimate complaint, and handled it like a gentleman.
The Bear booth was across the isle from ours. Great guys, I shot several of the new Bears, all very nice bows I would be thrilled to own and hunt with. I'm glad it worked out.
I wonder what they'd sell that riser for? Heck I wouldn't mind having it, but I've wanted one for a LONG time and can't spend that much on one.
I can certainly agree that it wasn't what you should get when you buy one though.
Nalajr
My thoughts exactly Nala ^_^
It is hard working with the American Public.
it is also hard dropping some $ and not being sure at what you are going to get and having faith is a huge plus. as far as this post went i would have faith in bear and big jim. so i guess this did some POSITIVE pr for more than just bear. as for some others that would like things hidden? you decide
Well, I am still waiting for a replacement bow from Bear for one that had the finish go to pot three weeks after buying it new this year. (The customer service rep told me the new one might do the same thing!) The wait is now four months since I returned the bow after receiving return authorization from Bear.
I don't see any problem with this gentleman expressing himself and how he felt at the time this occurred. He even posted updates on how the Bear reps are going to take care of him. If a person is going to look at only the first part of this thread when doing research for a Bear product, then that person would probably be one to complain about some minor detail anyway. When you click on the thread, it says there is an update on page 5, so it is not like you have to look very deep to find the final outcome. As far as Big Jims is concerned, I have never spoken to him or his staff on the phone. I have never needed to. Every time I order arrows, they come in just the way I ordered them and I have zero complaints. Other than the fact that I always have him cut them about 2-3 inches too short. You would think I would learn. My fiancé doesn't mind, because she always gets my short arrows. She also doesn't have any complaints about the quality of the shafts.
QuoteOriginally posted by David Mitchell:
Well, I am still waiting for a replacement bow from Bear for one that had the finish go to pot three weeks after buying it new this year. (The customer service rep told me the new one might do the same thing!) The wait is now four months since I returned the bow after receiving return authorization from Bear.
:saywhat: :saywhat:
Still waiting for the replacement for a defective bow the factory said was being made right when I checked on it the last time which is now over a month ago. :dunno: :(
X2 what Roger Norris said!
plus what motherlode opined.
Seems like a double standard regarding bows and who makes them. Last week there was a thread about the finish chipping off of a custom bow--no mention of the bowyer. I ask who made the bow but I believe the thread was deleted (?). There have been other threads regarding problems with custom bows, but always a reluctance to be too quick to call them by name.
Maybe its because Bear also makes compounds? Is considered a large company? Or maybe there is not a specific face/name with who made the bow. Regardless, I hate to see disputes aired out over the internet, especially when not enough time has been given for the bowyer to make things right. As a former small-business owner I can agree with Big Jim concerning trying to please customers-sometimes you do everything you can to please people, all the while knowing you are getting taken.
OK, I'm still waiting for the replacement bow from Bear for a defective model I returned on September 27. The first week of January I was told that the bow was being made right then and should ship within three weeks. Nothing yet. As the original poster started out this post, I am frustrated (still) with Bear Archery.
WOW! You are patient
Well, what else is there to do but wait? :confused: The customer service guy has been very patient with my inquiries and said he wished he could just make the bow for me but there isn't much he can do either but contact the factory which he does when I contact him about a status report--often the same day or always he gets back to me by the next day--they give him some song and dance about how it's just about ready to ship, yada, yada, and he forwards that report to me. Needless to say it is very frustrating and will certainly influence my decisions about future purchases.
Jeff, in regards to the double standard issue raised, that is a valid point to an extent, but I believe I have given it more then an enough time, and If I were dealing with a "custom" bowyer, I would expect no more or less in terms of customer service and would feel that others might be interested to know of poor customer response.
I agree with ya David.
It is more personal with one of our smaller bowyers when all they make for a living is custom bows though.
I do think there is a double standard to some extent between a large company and a one man show.
I'd bet you'd have better service from the smaller guy in this respect.
I truly hope for a quick resolution for you buddy.
...at this point I'd maybe contemplate asking for a refund and spend my money elsewhere....
I don't know but part of the problem may be that customer service is in Indiana (Escalade Sports) and the factory is in Florida. If in the same place I would bet the customer service guy could walk back in the plant and find out more and maybe even get faster results. If that had been my only bow you can bet I would be more impatient. I would hate to go five months with no bow! :eek: Guess I am getting really worn down with cabin fever right now and getting my hands on that bow might mitigate it some.
I can feel your pain bud.
Can you call Florida and talk with anyone?...tell them your story..maybe get a production manager on the line or something?
What is Escalade Sports? Do they own Bear now?
...just one of their distributers?...I truly don't know.
Not to be devil's advocate but....
Maybe the rep at Escalade Sports isn't really doing anything for you? Wouldn't be the first time a cust. serv. rep totally blew off a call without doing anything....just sayin..
Escalade Sports owns Bear Archery. It is just one of their multitude of sporting goods lines. They are not primarily an archery company--in fact, anything but. Table tennis, bowling, darts, you name it. I don't even know how much their customer service people know about archery. I'm not sure how to get in touch with anybody at Bear other than customer service.
try this...
Bear Archery
4600 Southwest 41st Boulevard
Gainesville, FL 32608
(352) 376-2327
I'll bet the people in that building will care a little more...
..if they're authorized to do anything may be something entirely different..
See if you can get a hold of Grant Neil Byce III Bear Archery's operations manager (Neil). He seems like a good guy...not positive if he's in Gainesville or not though...most likely though.
Thanks much! :thumbsup:
OK, I can't leave my above posts without final closure. My replacement bow came today. It is a beauty--a Super Kodiak in the reddish brown and black dymondwood. It shoots as well as any custom I have had. Workmanship is excellent and three days ago I received a call from a guy at Bear telling me the bow had shipped. The work order had stipulated that Mr. Byce was to inspect the bow before being sent but that due to no fault of his the shipping dept. had boxed and sent it to me. He gave me his name and number and said to call him when the bow arrived if I had any issue. No issues!
I will say that Bear did a fine job on this bow--a beauty in looks and performance. I did become impatient with the five month wait since it is what many call a "production" bow and I figured it should not take that long. But production or not, it rates with the best I have had.
So Thank You Bear Archery! :thumbsup: :notworthy:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: