I understand that every archer has a different skill set but I have never shot with another traditional archer. I was wondering how good, realistically good, can I expect to get? It seems that I'm not improving over the last year or so.
Don't get me wrong, I can hit where I'm aiming and all those good cliches but I feel like there is more that I'm missing.
Example: I can stick 10 out of 10 in the kill zone on a 3d deer target at 20 yds but I feel I should be better than that. Say ping pong ball or at least baseball size at maybe 15yds? (Maybe not 10 for 10 and I might hit it 4-5 times at 15yds)
Is that unrealistic? Maybe it's just that hunting season is over and I'm bored but I really feel I could or should get better.
That's good shooting on a 3d target. Yes you can definitely improve on that but it will take time and work to fine tune your form. However you will notice that shooting at a small target like a ping pong ball will make your groups shrink. Aim small, miss small
I never realized how I measured up until I started scoring on paper and 3D. At first it turned out I was nowhere near as good as I thought I was :biglaugh:
Re word that,
When you say 10 out of 10 on a 3 D deer at 20 yards. Do you mean 10 arrows in the 10 ring at 20 yards? Cause that's super impressive. If you mean 10 in the "kill area" made up of 8-10-12 ring. I would say that's pretty average and good for bowhunting skill level. competitive archery? Well that depends on how many you have in the 10. Consistency is the given factor. And we all have our good days and bad days.
But I always look at things like this....
YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD, AS YOU ARE ON YOUR WORST DAY.
This is at 20 yards and about typical of what I can post. Some days I'm better and some days worse. I missed a 3-D walking bear target TWICE last weekend at just under 20 yards - both shots right under the armpit. :knothead:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM2297.jpg)
Remember though - hunting accuracy is how good you are with one arrow from unmeasured range. I maintain a pretty good reputation on stump shooting. ;-)
When I was shooting regular in an indoor league I could stay inside a 3" cone (wood arrows & 55# bow) at 18M.
Too good can be expensive.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM2279.jpg)
That is pretty impressive shooting man. Keep up the practice and the groups will get even smaller. As was said earlier, now you have to fine tune. which can take longer than adjusting more obvious errors.
Thanks for all the responses everyone. When I said 10 out of 10 I mean heart/lung outline. I LOVE shooting and it's just for hunting purposes really. I just feel there is something I might be missing. That's shooting with my 56" Centaur or Morrison and wood arrows that I made up (maybe that's the problem!) HA! I will keep after it, that's for sure.
You'll be surprised at how good you can get. I don't shoot 3d courses or with other trad archers that much. I do have difficulty shooting in front of others.
NOW, Over the last 25 years, I've changed my form and anchor several times. When I was married and owned my own house, I was able to practice out at 40 or so yards. I would toss 12 oz water bottles in the yard and shoot at them from a longer distance than I would hunt at. practicing at 40 yards made a 20 yard shot very comfortable and a 15-10 yrd shot a chip shot. When you shoot, focus really hard on a tiny spot, burn a hole as they say. or aim small miss small like dnovo just posted.
What Sean said is true - try practicing at longer distances then come back in and I bet your groups will get tighter. Also, keep shooting, those repetitions are money in the bank, provided your form is good. And, shoot at the smallest feature you can see, as was also said, aim small miss small.
It may seem like you aren't improving for a while, and it is true that you can hit a plateau, but then you break through and get better.
The other way to improve your groups is better tuning for your arrows. The better your form gets, the better you become at telling if your set up is well tuned. Borrow or invest in some arrows of slightly different spine, material and set up. You might be surprised that you what you can gain from fine tuning your arrows.
Also look at the diagrams and explanations that Terry has up on the shooters forum. I go back and review these periodically and continue to learn and improve.
In the end, with unlimited practice, you could end up like Byron Ferguson who says that if he can see it, he can shoot it!
There are 2 or 3 Traditional shooters at our local club that shoot just a few points behind the top compound shooters. One is the best shot I have ever watched and he is not shooting a target weight bow. The traditional guys do shoot closer stakes than the compound shooters, but there are some 40 yard shots at caribou & elk targets. They are way above the average traditional shooter.
I always wanted to be able to shoot ariel targets. I would say at that point you are way above average.
Not me. Reading the responses here, makes me realize how far I have to go.
I have been doing an indoor 3d 40 shots from 6-30+ yards. Scoring 0-5-8-10 - 8's for kill zone 5 for foam etc.
That gives you 400 total points. There are trees and obstructions. Every shot at a different size animal and distance. By the end there will be a couple of guys shooting 380's and 390's. There will be a good handful shooting 350-360 and lots over 300. It's ten arrows at four general distances so that makes for 10 pretty long shots from the back. It's a good time and I'm not one of the 390 guys so it shows you what is possible.
Each year at our annual Trad Bowhunters of Washington get together we have an event called the Viking shoot. It is one round at 30 or so targets, it is intended as a fun shoot but it opens your eyes as to how good you really might be ... the rules are one arrow per target, 5 points for an arrow in the kill area ( not the ten ring but lung/heart ), zero points for a clean miss and -5 for anything in the body but not in the kill area. Targets are 15-30 yards in the woods, good hunting practice stuff. At the end of the 30 or so targets most folks that think they are good might be surprised at their score ... you can also get lulled into a false sense of being good shooting at the same old targets in your back yard. I know I have been a time or two ... The best measure of good for a hunter is how you do when it's a critter your shooting at not just targets... good shooting to you all :archer2:
I don't know how good you are, or can be.
I do know this though, I am not as good as I can be and try every day to get better. When I first started shooting trad bows I was happy to hit the 3D target. The. I got a little better and wanted to be in the 8 ring every shot. Now I want to be in the 10 ring every shot. I still can't do that, and until I do, I am still trying to get better. Heck, if I ever got that good (which I doubt I will) I will probably be trying to get all 12's!
What I'm trying to say is this; we all are in a certain place with whatever our skill is. Not a single one of us is as good as he can be and we all should always strive to be better!
Bisch
Well said, bisch
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I don't know how good you are, or can be.
I do know this though, I am not as good as I can be and try every day to get better. When I first started shooting trad bows I was happy to hit the 3D target. The. I got a little better and wanted to be in the 8 ring every shot. Now I want to be in the 10 ring every shot. I still can't do that, and until I do, I am still trying to get better. Heck, if I ever got that good (which I doubt I will) I will probably be trying to get all 12's!
What I'm trying to say is this; we all are in a certain place with whatever our skill is. Not a single one of us is as good as he can be and we all should always strive to be better!
Bisch
Truly well said Bisch and exactly how I feel as well.
This is some great info to work on. By the way, if anyone is near Stl, Mo. Let's shoot.
You'll know you've gotten good when 11 out of 10 shots are in the kill zone...
Seriously, haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, but another way to get better is to shoot with others who are better than you. Feedback and competition will help.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bear Heart:
I always wanted to be able to shoot ariel targets. I would say at that point you are way above average.
That's a different skill set and only learned through repetition and practice. Kind of like comparing shotgun wing shooting and shooting a rifle.
I seem to shoot better with others. It's always fun to try to bust someone else's arrow!
What is your goal? Is it target archery, or to be a good shot on game in the field.
I know I am probably the odd ball here, but I never shoot groups. The only target I own is in my basement, but I still pick a different spot for each shot. I don't like busted nocks.
98% of my practice is stump shooting. I shoot a lot of arrows at 30 to 50 yds. all unknown distances. Makes that 20 yd. shot a gimme. There are only 2 possible scores for each shot, DEAD or NOT DEAD.
Maurice Thompson felt that shooting groups at known distances actually hurt his ability to kill game. I agree.
Your practice should mimic your hunting in every possible way.
Your first shot is the only one that counts.
Putting that one shot right where it need to go. I've never had the opportunity to shoot a group at an animal so I don't shoot for groups when I practice. I take one shot at each spot I'm shooting for.
I think that is one of the big attractions of trad bows. It takes about 30 minutes to learn how to shot a bow and a life time to learn how to shot it better and better and better.
Joe
PS there is a fine line between hobby and Mental Illness.
your shooting sounds really good at the 3D but not sure if you have made any big game harvests but thats where your skills will truely shine or truely suffer, hear me out.
I started about 25yrs ago and I lived on the 3D course same as all my buddys and archery friends, there where a bunch that shot 3D making kills on aolmost every target but in the woods at deer they couldn't hit the kill zone at all,, seriously I'm talking wounding animals every shot it was insane because back on the course to check out the equipment it s was dimes and eights this wasn't everyone but maybe 1/3rd of all the people who I thought where top shots...
then there was those guys I knew who on the 3D courses who shot fair,, not great shots but not bad, maybe havign no misses on the 3D's but only a few dimes out of 30,,,,,, these guys put so many arrows thru the hearts of deer it was impressive,, I'm talking most if not all of the deer I knew about where recovered in short time,,, on the course no threat at all but in the woods absolutely deadly!
if you can not only think like your quarry, hunt smart in the elements, keep your composure, and still have the form and accuracy you experience at the 3D in the field I think you'll be a threat for sure.
When hunting with adrenaline doing it's thing to my heart and limbs, I find my performance degrades over what I can do at the range. Learned a trick during my law enforcement training - do some hard exercise ( fast laps, max pushups, etc.) then shoot. It's eye opening
It takes some training to improve your shot. At the moment I try to train three times a week. On days I don't shoot, I do rubber band exercises, to make my muscles stronger. I aim at a small pce of paper which is a little bit smaller then 4 by 4 inches. I shoot in a row of three arrows per time. For me, the ultimate is getting all three arrows in. Two in happens on a regular base. Trying to get the third in, after hitting twice, makes me so nervous, I mostly miss :) . However, last week I shot three in for the very first time, the hairs on my arms went up!
Here you see pics from my shooting which is representive for my form at the moment. The black has a diameter of 10 inches.
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p525/FlyingDutchman25/pijlen/1b71247d6f640d6ed42876e8cb45aa67_zps9e75313a.jpg)
(http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p525/FlyingDutchman25/pijlen/822fe3a5b7e73271575a9cd6da65252c_zps92ce79cf.jpg)
Every time that start thinking that I am getting good with all of the backyard shooting and need a reality check, I go small game hunting. There are the kind of shots that work on my dead foam deer and the kind of shots work on a frightened very alive bunny. I have seen lots of trad shooters have good form on flat ground at targets and then try to pull a wanky out of their hiny when trying to shoot at a pheasant.
Heck, it's really pretty simple... The first shot of each day is usually a great report card :)
I don't claim to be a great shot. It's been years since I shot tournaments. I mostly shoot in the back yard and rove stump shoot with 3K acres behind the house. I shot this Sweetgum ball at 17 long paces yesterday with 1st. shot. Sometimes I amaze myself. HaHa
It sounds like you are a good shooter and are like most of us in that you always want to improve. Good shooting...Dave
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff47/cahabarivr/100_0886-Copy.jpg) (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/cahabarivr/media/100_0886-Copy.jpg.html)
This is the point where you start experimenting with different styles of shooting and (gulp) different bows.
Some people excel at instinctive, some at gap, etc.
You need to keep an open mind if you truly want to improve. And possibly shoot a longer or shorter bow, elevated rest or shelf, split or three under, etc.
Everyone's personal style will be different.
A friend of mine was so adamant on snap/instinctive shooting that he would not give it up, and was an awful shot. We told him to drop bow weight, anchor and hold, try all different methods but he simply would not, fighting that he would eventually excel at it.
He never did, and shoots a wheel bow now.
Too bad, if he just experimented a bit, he could have improved and enjoyed himself much more.
Mess around a lot. Post season is the time to do it for sure.
I believe that with the advent of modern conveniences (videos and DVDs, YouT--- experts and yes internet armchair divas like us, lol) a disservice is being done for those who simply want to learn how to shoot a bow for the sheer joy of it. Yes, media conveniences have increased archery exposure which is a good thing. But not everyone wants (or needs) to shoot like an olympic archer, nor do they need to be told that it requires a complicated training regime or bag of gadgets.
Accurately launching an arrow with a bow is a remarkably simple undertaking if we allow it to be. Great men have shown that hitting the mark is mostly a product of good shot selection and hard work. A good shot is the result of the sum of your own practical experience... which in the end is the best way to learn pretty much anything. More doing and less theorizing...the old-school way.