I noticed several PA fellas have bagged nice bucks this year. I see from the pictures that many were up on steep mountain sides.
When hunting the mountains here in the East, the very deer you are after could pass with in 50 yards and you would be none the wiser. Steep ridges and points combined with thickets make it hard to get a good look at anything that isn't fairly close. especially if you are ground hunting.
When a buck walks by in steep hill country, he is just as likely to be at eye level with you as he is to be 15 feet below you.
Since a buck can look up or down on you, try to set up so you blend in no matter what direction he comes from.
When it comes to wind, many guys say,"just hunt the wind". I sometimes have to laugh at that. You have no idea what it is like to do that in the Eastern mountains. The winds always has swirling, and the big mountain bucks will come from any direction. On top of main ridges the wind is more constant, but many have played that game. Wise old buck often avoid such easily accessed areas because most hunting pressure originates there. To hunt where the deer are means to hunt where the wind is swirly.
I would like to hear some tactics from the successful mountain hunters this year. I may add in more along the way.
My favorite tactic is to hunt benches especially if there is some kind of edge nearby.
Multi directional winds and deer approaching from almost any direction. Boy you nailed that one! You are right others who do not hunt the mt terrain do not have a clue what it's like.
One of the biggest things i look for is any point the can pinch deer down to travel a narrow area. Blow downs is a key ingredient here. Little bumps and knobs also. I usually see deer traverse the grade on a 45deg angle. Usually when you see them going straight up and down is from two reasons. Fleeing from danger or going around an obstacle.
Funnel spots are your best bet but sometimes takes a few seasons to really learn and figure out.
Usually bed on very small flat spot on hill side about the size of a truck hood and it's usually at some kind of edge. Hunting laurel edges is always a good bet.
I always put my stand in amongst clusters of trees or in with grape vines. You can bet to that if there is tangle of grape vines and it looks narly that it's a good area.
You can be pretty assured deer bed high and feed low in most instances.
Mostly I hunt white oak areas early season. Then gradually move to thicker edges and tangly looking spots as the rubs and scrapes pop up. I usually stay ways from very open areas and hunt in or along thickets. I also hate hunting mountain sides when the leaves are still on. I wish our season would start later and run longer.
Red Shaft, funny you mention bedding areas. I was just thinking that in big woods in the mountains there are no "regular" bedding areas. Deer move around so freely and have so many choices. Sure there are areas that deer will frequent, but there are no set bedding areas as in a small woods. Trying to decipher which heavy thicket is being used the day of your hunt can be a nightmare.
You are dead on. They will lay anywhere. They sometimes travel great distances and sometimes bed real close to where they eat. Almost right in it. It's crazy. Like they are way Differant animal than what other hunt. Most stuff I try to learn or read about you can throw in the garbage. Thy do what they want, when they want. There is no plan. The best time to capitalize on them is very early on those white oaks and take advantage of rubs and scrapes later on. And hope you found yourself a funnel near where you know does are or bed or come through and put the time in. Beginning of nov to the end
It really seems bucks in the mountains do not move a whole lot at all I till that last week of oct. I see very few bucks on there feet during daylight before end of oct.
I like what I call sneak'n and peek'n. Hunt a ridge and bounce side to side looking over the edge real slow with a lot of glassing. Work the wind and spend time in the saddles. It's slow and tedious but fun when it works. Real slow up here with the low deer numbers but it does work.
Where I hunt it's just like Pennsy, only smaller. I have to laugh with you guys about the wind thing, just wait a couple minutes and it'll be "right". And then it'll be wrong again. That's why I just about always hunt treestands. And sometimes pretty high.
When I find "the" spot, I look for the highest part of it and put my stand there. Deer naturally gravitate to high spots and if you call one in he will sometimes walk right under you looking for the deer he heard but can't see thinking that it must be just over the rise.
I used to think hunting on the lee side during a heavy blow was the place to be, but the wind actually swirls more there. Now I just stay home!
Jerry,
Man! You are right!. And this is a good thread. I have been hunting the north central, mostly Tioga County for 30 yrs. The wind literally never stays in one direction. You can't have a sit for more than an hour without a major wind swirl.
Combine that with public land and low deer numbers and you have yourself a challenge! I don't think I ever killed what anyone here would call a whopper in the PA mts. But I have killed some bucks. It is usually the rut before I can see one. And that is the best time to hope he will make a mistake with that wind. I always hunt out of a tree stand. I use a full sized backpack (Alice Pack or Mystery Ranch Crew Cab). I get some dumb looks, but how else do you cary a tree stand and enough water, clothes, gear, food...etc to hunt in a tree stand all day? Carrying the tree stand in can be a pretty good workout. I let one in the woods for most of the season and have a second in case I need to be more mobile. The backpack can be used to 1/4 and carry a deer if you are lucky enough to get a shot.
On calm days thermals shift the breeze as the daily temp fluctuates. You can usually feel breeze turn and come downhill just before dark on a calm eve. That is pretty much a sure thing. And usually you get some uphill breeze mid morning if you are up high. I don't know if that has ever helped me get a deer or not!
Being able to handle the cold during the last few weeks of the season is a necessity. You can't walk in wearing a lot of clothes. I have been using a pile of large sized hand warmers place all over my body to stay in the tree for long hours. You sweat on the way in no matter how you dress. Tedd
I really don''t know how you handle the swirling wind. A bedded deer usually will lay using the current wind for safety, so I like to think that when a major wind shift comes through it will cause deer to get up and move. Maybe towards me!
Tedd
Look for saddles above any thick cover that could be used for bedding areas. And hunt where points meet that come down off ridges ,deer seem to travel them. The wind can be tricky thier too. Big woods hunting can be frustrating at times,but sometimes it all comes together.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tedd:
I really don''t know how you handle the swirling wind. A bedded deer usually will lay using the current wind for safety, so I like to think that when a major wind shift comes through it will cause deer to get up and move. Maybe towards me!
Tedd
I use the same tricks on myself to persevere and stay put---reminding myself that mountain deer can and do come from any direction--and swirling cost me quite a lot of shots this season-one real heartbreaker on a 3-1/2yr old buck that was 10 yrds for 15 mins-ooof!--
I also feel that the random bedding is a response to random wind-hard to predict!
pinch points are often a lot more subtle than most articles would suggest--and 2-3 times I was astonished to see deer tip toeing around my "pinch point" crossing rock piles and other seemingly unpassable terrain!!
since the devastating snow 2 yrs ago knocked 1000's of trees down]and then sandy a year later 1000's more we've had to relearn the pinchpoints--BUT with that many tops and full timbers down some spots were improved-and some great funnels have almost no travel now
these tops and blowdowns are usually pretty easy to rearrange and improve upon-we've dragged 3-4 tops to redirect travel to within range of stands and blinds
and remember random wind has got to be almost as big a PITA to the deer! and they are definitely playing for keeps!!
If you hunt saddles in high ridges they will direct certain winds in a favorable directions. Deer use the saddles a lot because it makes it easier to travel back and forth to different valleys. It's one of my favorite tactics!
Tedd, your right it's tough packing a stand and all your gear when it's cold up mountain side and n dressing right and trying to stay warm. It's a real struggle to play.
I will tell you guys I had pretty decent year. And if you guys remember me saying in other posts I as going to be lazy this year and try the close overlooked and walked last spots? Well it really paid off well for me. Closer walks and more deer. Right off and along road and spot everyone walks by. I was shocked how good it was while everyone drove right in by.
Also before ice fishing starts I try to get out and walk in he snow to learn how deer move. Right now is best time if you have snow. I learned allot of new spots just in past week that I overlooked. I know guys say early spring later winter. But I think now is best time. They are reacting the way the will next season. ESP those of us who hunt public land. You can see faint trails you never knew existed.
What I been doing is making notes and writing down every spot I seen in a note book. Next year all I have to do is. Review my notebook and got pick a tree. I'm hoping it pays off.
Great thread. Good information fellas.
Red shaft, you make another good point about scouting in winter too. Waiting until pre-season to do scouting is almost worthless. There are no food plots to monitor, so piecing together early season travel patterns is impractical. You will end up hanging tree stands based on information that is going to change in a few weeks. When natural cover and food sources change, so do travel patterns. Post season scouting will allow you to gather the most pertinent information in my opinion.
Bamboo nailed it you ahve to hunt pinch points and sometimes they don't jump out to you as much as you would think .
The Derecho (sp) that blew all the trees down in 2012 have changed a lot of my stands but I'm slowly redirecting the tops to get them where I can shoot them :)
Don't hunt if the wind is wrong was wrote by some midwest hutner . I can take a good eastern mountain whitetail hunter to the midwest and hurt the population there :)
I live in south central PA(Huntingdon County) and prefer hunting the mountains over our ridges. Our particular area features valleys with lots of crop fields and therefore lots of private land so it is a much different than hunting mountains in areas with continuous timber without crops. Because of the crops, for the most part they are coming up the mountain to bed after feeding in the fields all night and the reverse in the evenings. Whenever possible I try to focus on benches or at least slight grades for most of my hunting so that I don't have to contend with steep areas where the deer are right at eye level with your treestand. I also look for "smooth" areas where the deer can travel between large areas of rocks. Also old logging roads are scattered over the mountainsides and make good travel areas as well.
I feel the biggest key to successfully hunting mountains is to plan your route into your stand. Many hunters will take the shortest route to their stand instead of circling around the area where the deer will be coming from. I have some spots that require a hike that takes at least 3 times longer than the more simple straight shot right to my stand.
When I was younger and lacked the patience, I think I used to climb down out of my stands too early in the mornings. In my experience, when hunting high on the mountain, especially during the rut, it just takes a long time for the deer to make their way up you. It amazes me how often I started to see deer at 10 or 11 in the morning once I became patient enough to sit that long.
The wind is the most frustrating part of hunting our area. As for the issues with swirling winds and thermals, the only thing I have found is to try and set stands so that deer can come from different directions and keep fingers crossed that the wind cooperates when they are headed your way. Those TV experts that climb down out and switch stands every time the wind changes would get quite a workout in the mountain terrain we hunt!
I always wanted to hunt Tioga County - it's such beautiful country. But, in the two hour drive I'd pass up some of the best deer country in the world. So, I hunt around home.
But, I stopped hunting where the wind swirls... been busted too many times.
Bobaru,
Exactly where is that hunting spot!!
Someone made a good point...use the snow to your advantage, scouting when there is snow on the ground is easily the most valuable thing you can do for killing a mountain buck.
2nd would be finding a good acorn situation in the early season.
Tedd
I too have to laugh at the 'hunt into the wind' statement Here in the Rockies you'd never be out of sight of the truck because the wind blows 360* 24/7. I've gotten 8 mule deer and most were shots of opportunity while still hunting logging roads.
Same conditions hunting the Pacific Northwest. Thick and steep and the wind changes all the time. If we hear elk or get a response we try our best for the wind, but lots of times the wind is totally different where the elk are. I relate to the low deer densities. There are a decent population of Blacktails in my area but they are hard to pattern in the hills.
Brandon
Great topic. The "just hunt the wind" posts make me laugh also. If I did that here in the mtns of WV I'd give up hunting.
I also hunt a lot in Ohio and it's like hunting two entirely different species!
Around here fawns are taught to walk around with the head held up scanning trees. The wind direction changes every few minutes. There aren't any farms and obvious funnels that a newbie would recognize. Also around here 99.9% of the hunters hunt over bait piles day in day out. I don't bait.
What I do is scout year around. Now for trails in snow, rubs etc but in late summer early fall for final update of acorn trees that have produced. Did the mast only hit on top, middle or in the bottoms. Is it a heavy mast or one that will peter out quick. I'm always constantly trying to see where everyone else is hunting, easy enough to follow 4 wheeler tracks to a bait site! I have about a dozen trees stands up or ready to put up. I hardly ever hunt a stand more than three times in a year, some I ONLY hunt during the rut periods. I put out trail cameras on scent ropes year around to see what made it and what ones turn up in the same general areas. BUT I only check periodically as to not over scent up my camera site.
Now back to the wind. I feel I can "fool" a deer's nose while on stand from wind blown scent. Been doing it for several years. First and foremost is wind proof clothing. If wind blows through your clothes so does your scent. I wear a Cabelas ryno skin head mask over my head fall and winter. All my clothes are sprayed down with a homemade scent "killer" reducer every single time I head out. I go through gallons of it a years time. And no it has no baking soda in it. After doing this for years you can tell the deer that do smell me show subtle signs and sniff even harder to verify. You can tell they smell me but think I'm way out of their danger zone and go back to what ever they were doing before. Even with this I never hunt in the creek bottom areas with steep mtns surrounding. Even if the sign in such areas is usually unbelievable don't be tempted. Your scent just stays in these low lying areas and you will get busted.
Now as far as scent that drops to the ground as you walk in and out I don't think you can fool them. All deer are different, some are like poodles while others are like blood hounds. Some show little sign while others that cross your trail go on alert. That's why I don't like to over hunt a stand and or over check trail cameras.
With all that said I believe 80% of the deer use 20% of the land. Some of that is drove or walked by to get deeper in!
I used smoke for a cover this year. I felt it worked better than anything I have used before.
I also hunt the mountains in the east...specifically in southern Wv and S/W Virginia. I agree with all that has been said. My most productive big buck spots are usually benches along the side of steep ridges, off the end of points and just under the crest of a ridge on one side or the other. Bucks in the areas I hunt like bedding on very steep and thick areas adjasent to large areas of gentler sloping topography.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jack Whitmire Jr:
Don't hunt if the wind is wrong was wrote by some midwest hutner . I can take a good eastern mountain whitetail hunter to the midwest and hurt the population there :) [/QB]
Agree 100% !! I also hunt Ohio and those bucks are EASY compared to our mountain bucks ! I've yet to hunt Ohio for more than 3 days and not kill a respectable buck bigger than most kill around here ! Hope I don't offend any Midwesterners with that statement...but that's been my experience !
Yes not my intention at all to offend anyone , but from what I've seen the wind is much more constant in the Midwest .
They are still whitetails and hard to hunt!
I feel blessed when I get 45 minutes of "true" steady thermal flow--be it up in the am or down in the pm!!---to hunt a set up where there was 2-3 hours of steady-one direction- air flow would be unbelievable!!
I've been investigating some nearby public bottom land that's adjacent to private crop land--yup looking for some steadier winds!!I'm not giving up on the mts!--I can't do that!
I hunt the Pa. late season merely to use the snow (hopefully) for a scouting tool for the following fall. Having snow shouldn't be an issue this year.
Good thread. I hunt up in Tioga and try to get back in as far as I can. I don't set up near scrapes. I try and bactrack away from a scrape line. I think scrapes are hit after dark, eventhough deer aren't really pressured. Also like to hunt maybe 1/4 to 1/2 way down draws depending on the terain and sign. Sometimes you can get a steady wind in the draws.
Tedd, I live in Canandaigua, which is in Ontario County, NY. From here down to the PA line is some really fine deer hunting. The stats show that Yates county produces more deer per square mile than any other in the state. Steuben County produces more deer than any other in the state. The numbers are impressive, but for big racks, ya gotta work mighty hard.
I didn't elaborate on hunting where the wind swirls in my prior post. I had this one public ground with lots of deer, nestled in the bottom of the valley. That was the worst. Never did get a deer. Wind swirled awful. Every 5 minutes, it was different.
But, as others have said, hunting benches works great.
One good spot I hunt is where they side-hill. It seems they ascend from eating corn in the morning, then side-hill before dropping into their beds. This area has exposure to the prevailing SW winds, so I don't have much trouble there with swirls. Plus, on no wind mornings, you'd be surprised that your scent rises up the hill as the warmth of day begins. ... Some book I read said bucks, in pre-rut or rut, often walk with the wind at their back. I've documented that to be true for me. So, when the thermals are rising up the hill so are the bucks.
I think that deer hunting is simply playing probabilities. Choose the highest probability area you have, and increase your probabilities by increasing the hours on stand.
Matt,
You must be right about the scrapes. I have waisted a lot of time sitting over scrapes. But I just kept that to myself, you know, cuz the magazines and tv shows all say that where you gotta be!I was dumb enough to do it again this year. I like to find scrapes of course. Just don't know if I'd hunt at em. Feed and travel patterns are what I like to discover. That is why snow helps.
What part of Tioga Co do you hunt? I almost never see another hunter. I have never seen another trad hunter.
I have hunted in a lot of other states and have had some really nice hunts in Wyoming. Honestly for me, nothing is a satisfying as killing a PA mountain buck. The drag out can be pretty tough. It's something you have to consider. When I was young and dumb it really didn't matter. Today the deer's bodies are bigger than 20 years ago on average. And with antler restrictions they are generally an older deer. They are hard to get out!! I have never killed one of those giants that live there. My favorite deer kill of all time is a fat little forkhorn (pre antler restrictions)killed on the last day during a break in snow squaws. It was so quiet I could hear the cedar arrow gently rattling off the branches of a blowdown after it passed through the deer.
TD
Tedd,
I hunted Tioga County years ago, when I was in college. There is ample hunting oppurtunities and beautiful land, but patterning the deer isn't an easy job.
As far as scrapes go, they are a good starting point, but I just use them as a sign that I'm in the right area... I try to figure out where the deer are coming from or going to before and after they hit the scrape.