I am not sure how to describe what I have in mind, so if I get too wordy, please bear with me. One issue I hear with wool (and have encountered myself) is that it does not block wind well enough.
Is it possible to make a double layered garment with an outer layer of very tightly woven wool for enhanced wind blocking and the inner layer with more loosely woven wool for good insulation? What I have in mind is something like Theresa Asbell's or Ron La Clair's garments. Would it work, and, if so, would it be too bulky or costly to be practical?
Blocking wind is more a function of the tightness of the weave than huge thick material.
I have a wool pullover from Teresa Asbell. Mine is one of the medium weight pullovers & it takes a pretty good wind to penetrate it. I really like it & have asked for a heavier zipper with a hood for Christmas.
I think you will find the garments by Teresa to be very well made, very wind resistant, & priced so most can afford one. I recommend them highly.
Gray Wolf Woolens, made in Wisconsin. I have a new coat from them that has tightly woven wool on the outside and a wind stopper middle layer. They custom sew to your own measurements so it's sure to fit right.
Pete nailed it..... I have lots of wool from GWW, Asbell, Columbia, Cabelas, etc, etc.... When it gets bone cold and any wind above 10MPH the Gray Wolf with wind liner comes out and cold no more....... :readit:
I love my Asbell wool too but if any wind above 7-10MPH wind will get thru and at that point it is a matter of just how cold is the actual temp.... If it is in the 30-40's I don't mind a little wind getting thru but if 20-30's then cannot take that. I wear my Asbell zip up just about every evening hunt of the year. Evenings it is usually 35-55 degrees and Asbell over wool Ulfrotte' long johns and I am plenty warm and not all weighted down or bulked up. Late season cold evening like today when it is 26 I would wear Ulfrotte' base, then heavy wool sweater or Asbell, then final layer of Gray Wolf vest. In late season that vest just cannot be beat. No wind will get thru, extra long to cover kidneys, DEEP pockets and collar that is taller in rear than front that I flip up on my neck. Pockets are so deep half my forearms are covered while holding my chemical hand warmers. JMHO
I wear mostly KOM and Autumnwood. Jackets/parkas of both are lined with windstopper type nylon material. That stuff slows the wind, but it doesn't stop it.
Wind just pulls out body heat. Even if it doesn't go through the fabic, the faster the wind, the faster it cools the surface of the material you're wearing. This, in turn, is colder on the body.
We can do a lot to ameliorate the effects of wind, but when it's very cold, and windy, we're most likely going to end up pretty cold.
Teresa also makes a liner vest that blocks the wind entirely and keeps your torso warm.
Wind won't blow through Filsons
I have a lightweight Windstopper jacket that I wear under my Asbel wool. It really helps, especially when I wear merino wool under a midweight thermal shirt-3 or 4 light layers.
How about classicsportsman. Wool great stuff. Any body have them?
Wool is tricky in my opinion. It took me a long time to figure it out. Wool outer layers are great. Quiet, dull, and durable. If you are sitting short periods and even doing some moving around like hiking/still hunt, go wool only without wind blocking layer. But for sitting in wind they can be drafty. So, if you are sitting for long periods, wind block layer is a must. Then layer up underneath. When it's in the OMG it's cold I wear KOM one size larger than I would normally get with wind block layer, down microtherm full long sleeve shirt, 400 wool power, 200 wool power, and Smartwool base layer. I'm sure any good wool/wind block combo is fine. Bottoms: Smartwool base layer, wool power 200, KOM pants. That keeps me warm without too much bulk for bow hunting. Down is awesome. It makes a tiny bit of noise rubbing the nylon on the other layers, but I've never had a deer hear it. Shot my three biggest deer wearing these combos. Muff with hot packs for hands, arctic shield covers over boots with stick on toe warmers for feet.
This season I sat all day in weather less than 20 deg and 20 mph wind all day. That's a long day but I was ok, and I get cold easy.
Hope that helps!
Another option is a golf windblocker vest/jacket worn underneath. They weigh nothing and can be found at clearance pricing now. I started to say anyone on the links this time of year is crazy, but then I realized at least they'd be moving.....never mind!
x2 on the golf shirt (and pants). They can make a huge difference.
I have a wind blocker lined vest that I wear on the outside layer. It was made by a now OOB company but it is an awesome piece, and looks good too. Quiet, and has deep, lined pockets, perfect for keeping hands warm. Hope I never lose it.
ChuckC
I wear 1 of Teresa"s wind blocker vests under my Asbell wool on windy days.
One of things things I like about wool is how quiet it is, not only in the woods but also anywhere else. When you start putting wind blockers underneath the wool, you must be careful of the material. Some of it is really noisy and takes away the quiet aspect of the wool fabric. Teresa's wind blocker vest is super quiet and does a wonderful job in blocking the wind.
I like the sound of Teresa's wind blocker. I have 2 pieces of her stuff and like the price and quality. Some of the other brands mentioned are a bit pricey but sure have good reputations.
I am still fascinated by the idea of a single doubled layered garment, just to see if it would work, but Teresa's vest is the most likely way to go.
If you're after double layered, try to find a blaze orange wool layer on one side and another color wool layer on the other. I had a vest like that, but it was on the small side over the past few years-guess the "never been washed" wool shrank-so I sold it.
The BEST (and cheapest) trick I have found...
Wear a plain old cotton (oh,shame!!) camo shirt,or jacket, OVER your wool clothing.
The cotton camo shirt is soft,quiet,and the tight weave of the cotton is a very effective wind stopper!!!!! :thumbsup:
I have worn 2 100% wool sweaters, under a cotton "bowhunting" jacket, and have been comfortable hunting in the single digits, when the wind chill was well below zero.
Mole skin would be a good chice for that I would think too. Good stuff
I'm having more trouble with the cold weather as I get older. Today I sat in about 15 degrees w/ 20mph wind in a treestand for nearly 3 hours. I was wearing KOM Bunwarmers with a pair of Browning Windpro fleece longjohns, liberal chemical warmers, muck woody max boots, wool socks and a Cabela's fleece Berber/insulated/windproof coat. Toasty the entire time. If I had been wearing my usual insulated bibs and jacket I would have lasted maybe an hour. The KOM is amazing.
Now don't get me wrong, I love my Filson's but maybe it depends on which Filson's one has, because my Filson's wool coat lets wind pass through. However, wind does not seem to pass through my Swanndri coat, which is also water proof, and interestingly enough, my Swanndri shirt, while also being waterproof, does seem to let wind pass through, I can't figure it out but the Swanndri shirt with the GW vest, is perfect for stalking in cold weather.
Filson is great stuff. I've not shot a bow with one of their items on, but use it for other pursuits. For weapons where getting spitting close isn't an issue, I just put my wind layer right over the top. Like old army issue Camo tops and such. TOASTY
One item I can say is ridiculously warm is chucks two tracks wool vests. Once you see how they are made you would be hard pressed to find a better wool vest for warmth.
Wool blocking the wind is a density of weave issue. While I sell Asbell wool, I wear wool from literally every where. I have different weights and densities.
Fortunately, all wool improves it's density over time. Unfortunately, it's actually an action of slight shrinkage. Yep....get your wool wet enough times, and it will be dense as heck. This is called "fulling" Thats why it is important to dry your wool properly...laying it out and blocking it as it it dries.
I find Filson to have an extremely dense and windproof wool right from the start. My Filson Mackinaw gets the nod when I am going to just wear one coat, and a bowhunters mobility isn't required. It's great gun hunting or checking coyote traps. But I can't shoot a bow with it. I wear a ton of Filson wool, but other than their sweaters and vests,it is not bowhunting gear.
Asbell wool is designed to be layered. It's roomy enough for a jacket, a windblocker vest, and maybe an extra Asbell wool vest. I also always wear my thick Filson sweater. I wore this arrangement this morning. 18 degrees, blowing snow, and I was never cold. I sat 3 1/1 hours and could have lasted another 2. Asbell pullovers and zippered jackets are also specifically designed for the bow hunter. Seems like an easy claim, but hear me out.
There are lots of Mackinaw "like" jackets out there. Filson make the best one, IMHO. But these are designs that originated with timber cruisers and gun hunters. Lots of pockets, usually extra wool around the shoulders, etc. Frankly, I think it's the best looking jacket out there. I have worn mine from funerals to traplines. But with all that bulk and extra wool, pockets and buttons, come problems for the bowhunter.
Teresa started her business with the pullover. It was designed to keep a bowhunter warm, concealed, and without the geegaws on it that cost extra $$ and snag bowstrings. Teresa and Fred sold nothing but pullovers until last year, when they added zippers. Seems like a simple thing? Nope. Teresa agonized about zippers....not wanting to increase cost, and not wanting to cause bulk and string catching pulls to the front of the jacket. And it isn't as simple as splitting open a pullover and adding a zipper. The pattern changed. Subtle as it seems, it took quite a bit to get the zipper "bowhunter approved". The shape of the body and the "flow" of the arms are different than other jackets....they are designed to accomodate the hunting archer. Thankfully, Teresa is married to a bowhunter who knows what works. ;)
Other wool that is obviously designed for the bowhunter is 2 Tracks and the Grey Wolf products. Great stuff. I will be ordering a 2 Tracks for my personal use soon.
I love my Asbell wool garments. But...if you're worried about the wind, get some wool felt from Two Tracks. Chris is an artist with this material. Peace!
I own a variety of wool garments several Asbell products, Woolrich, Pendleton, vests, jackets, and several Merino wool sweaters for layering. With wool it all depends on the tightness of the weave, Filson, Pendleton, KOM etc all use a very tight woven fabric usually 100% wool and very thick! hence the price, that fabric is very pricy to manufacture! The 85/15 blend is more open weave hence the wind tends to pass thru it, I usually layer with fleece or Merino garments anyway so for me its not a problem, but wool will absorb snow etc but it will keep its warmth only get heavier! I love all of mine and the Asbell garment are some of my favorite patterns! I recently acquired a Burton 100% Boiled wool jacket that I have been layering with my Asbellvest so its been my fav combo for hunting this December!
I have the swandri and I get mine lanolin treated every couple of years. I did that to my camo Filson double mac and that made it more wind proof. Perhaps too wind proof, considering the Filson longjohns, Filson wool shirt, possibly a Norwegian wool sweater and Filson wool vest that are under it. If one really wants to get warm, as in you cannot melt snow when you take a nap on a winter day, put a Duluth Pac canvas anorak over it all. It is hard to beat a heavy wool pants and longjohns under a waxed canvas insulated bib overall. It has to be zero or colder for me to break all of this stuff out at the same time.
pavan,
I like your layering system.
I need to get a good wool vest yet.
My system for the zero to 15 above range is similar.
I start with merino long johns, wool shirt, Asbell wool pullover and finish with the wooltimate stuff.
As I say, I am missing the vest and I need to look into your suggestion of the Duluth waxed canvas.