This is a topic I like to bump to the top each year after reading of the heart ache some people express after loosing a big game animal. It is worth a read by all of us.... Call a dog folks, if legal, every time you lose that trail.
I realize that this is a topic that has been mentioned on here in the past no doubt but I think it important to bring forth every year for folks that may not think of this solution to recovering a wounded game animal.
The use of a highly trained blood dog can dramatically increase your chances of recovering a wounded big game animal. There are some very serious misconceptions about what is possible with these dogs so to prevent me from reinventing the wheel I will quote a very well respected blood dog tracker from Georgia. Ken Parker sums up the process like this:
"Mistakes hunters make before calling in a tracking dog.
These are things that I have run into over the last few years. This is not an all inclusive list of mistakes as I am sure I will continue to see new things the more I track.
The most common mistake is that hunters walk down the middle of the blood trail. Then when they get to were the blood runs out they start walking all over the place. This transfers blood from their boots to places the deer did not go. When the dog gets there to track and gets to this point on the trail they have to spend a lot of time unraveling this false blood trail that is now laid out. There is not a good solution other than to try to be careful and walk to the side of the trail were possibly.
Mistake number 2 is that the hunter does not visually or physically mark where the deer was standing when they shot. This point can be very important to a tracker in that a lot of information can be gained by looking at the color of hair at the hit site along with any bone that might be there.
Mistake 3 is that they do not know who their neighbors are or how to get in contact with them in case the deer travels across property lines. In many states it is illegal to cross property lines without permission even to track a wounded deer. A solution is to go ahead and make arrangements with your neighbors ahead of time just in case. This will help when late at night you come to a property line and you are trying to find out who owns the property. You will be very disappointed when the tracker and his dog call it quits, so get permission ahead of time.
Mistake 4 is not being prepared for tracking at night. A pen light works fine for walking into the woods but when you need to see the minutest sign you need a very good bright light. Bring several good lights just in case your batteries die or a bulb blows.
Mistake 5, not marking their progress along the track to the point of loss. Marking the trail helps the tracker to see that their dog is following the right blood trail to the point of loss. If the blood trail is very light the handler may not see any blood as they will be watching their dog's reaction. By marking the last spot of blood the handler will know that at that point there might be a lot of false trails, see mistake #1Mistake 6 pushing the deer. If the deer travels out of site after the shot give it 30 to 45 minutes. As soon as you start tracking and see that the animal may travel a great distance or that it is a poor shot back out and give it at least 4 hrs if the temperature will allow and you are not worried about coyotes. If there are signs of a gut shot wait 6 to 8 hrs before begining to track again. Most mortally wounded deer will try to lie down within 200-300 yards. But if pushed out of the bed can travel great distance before expiring .
Misconceptions about Tracking"
It's been raining, so a dog won't be useful." Actually, a light rain helps to hold the scent. Some dogs are even able to track after heavy rains.
"I've waited too long." It is always better to call as soon as possible, but, if you can not get a tracking dog for 12 hours or more, don't worry. A lot of people think that a dog is only good if the track is under a few hours old. However, a well-trained dog will be able to follow a scent trail 20 to even 40 hours old, even if other deer or wildlife has traveled the same trail. The meat may not be any good, if the weather is hot or the coyotes might have gotten to it, but, if you want to recover your trophy, do not be afraid to call in a quality tracking dog.
Another misconception is that "a tracking dog will always find" the animal. A tracking dog greatly increases your chances of finding a wounded animal, but it is by no means a guarantee. Many deer survive what hunters think to be a kill shot. But, let's not forget ... dogs can have bad days too, just like people do.
The art of working a tracking dog has come a long way from just turning out the best tracking deer dog to the highly specialized tracking dogs of today. Do not be afraid to contact a person from the tracking dog list ahead of time to ask questions. It might save you some time when you are in need of a tracker the most. Happy hunting to all and good luck to all the trackers during the next season."
End quote.
There are some great in-state organizations that have blood dog handlers for your area and you can always go to unitedbloodtrackers.org and click on the "find a tracker" tab.
It is very important to remember that many of these dogs can track cold lines of 24-36 hours old. I ran blood dogs for years and "very little sign" after the shot is often used to gauge the lethality of the wound when often means nothing at all. Countless times I have tracked deer with little more than a drop or two of blood (some times none) over a half mile or more to find them very dead in their beds. Without a dog, recovery would have been impossible and undoubtedly we would have assumed that the deer would recover. We all like to think of ourselves as super trackers but a trained recovery dog does not need blood to recover a wounded animal, we do. If nothing more, the use of a quality blood dog is giving it every possible effort at recovery and will put your mind at ease that the animal has a good chance at recovery. We owe it to the resource.
Spend the time to find out what the blood dog resources are in your state and have their numbers stored for the time when you really need some help.
On a personal note, I use a network of trackers in both Georgia for deer and hogs and in Canada for bear. I am excited to be getting my first blood dog in a few weeks after not having one for quite some time. My choice is a teckel. I have used them in my bear camp with a cold blood trail of 30 hours with great success. I was sold on them.
Good luck to everyone.
My beagle pup tracked a gut shot deer of mine last year. I would have never ever found that deer if I did not decide to bring him. I did learn to allow him time to gather information at the site of the kill. And to trust that nose several times we thought he was off the track and pulled him off. Only to find out in the end he was right all the long.
mr fingers- did your dog have any training.
any help on working with scent dogs.
i have had extensive experience working with a variety of herding dogs( heelers, huntaways, catahoulas and kelpies)-dogs that i have broke in and run as cow dogs. but not had much to do with trailing dogs. i have a pair of 5 year old kelpies now, since i left the ranch. wanted some guidance to maybe get them to do some trailing.
did a little last summer in the yard with them, but could really use some guidance.
It's an awesome experience getting to watch a good blood dog do his thing.
I have been lucky to have had dogs available for some really tough hog recoveries; Catahoulas mostly, and they have been outstanding.
Training is the wrong word in my mind...............you don't train them. You may think you are the 'trainer' but mostly you need to get out of their way and let them do what they were bred to do.
I know two fellas with blood dogs, one is a dachshund at about 6 lbs and the other is a bloodhound at about 70lbs so different ends of the spectrum. I do know that the bloodhound is a ground eating machine and you will be dug in heels deep the whole time but he is about as sure a thing as ive seen on wounded game. the dachshund is way easier to control oviously and aint no slouch in the tracking department.
Anyone use Jack Russells or heard of Jacks being used? I hard they use them in Africa to go into the bush for wounded game.
For anyone interested in learning about training a blood dog, consider the book Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer. This is generally considered to be the best reference book ever written on training a quality blood tracking dog.
Watching a trained blood dog work a 30 hour old line is much like watching a Bushman tracker for the first time. It is difficult to put your experiences and skill aside and believe what they are doing is even possible.
Great post Jerry.
GREAT post, Jerry!
The guy you quote mirrors our experience with hunters on cold calls exactly.
The biggest problems we face are:
1. Extremely disturbed tracks - as the guy talks about in your quote
2. Hunters that don't mark the track - we have spent up to 45 minutes looking for the blood trail the hunters tracked but didn't mark - talk about messing up a track!
3. Hunters that don't know their own hunting area - I had to buy a GPS because we have tracked for hunters that continually get lost on areas as small at 40 acres
4. THE WORST MISTAKE - hunters that follow up too early and jump the deer. You cut your odds of recovery at least in half by making this mistake. Amazing how outfitters, guys with lots of experience etc will CONTINUALLY make this mistake.
We run into people all the time that expect the dog to work miracles - find deer jumped multiple times on very disturbed tracks - find deer that aren't even fatally wounded!!! I love my dog, but he can't make your high shoulder or "through the top of the back" shot into a fatal hit!
Boy, we could tell stories about hunters....heck there is an outfitter, and an experienced QDM guy with lots of years hunting and managing whitetails, on another forum asking for help for one of his clients on a buck they shot last SATURDAY, and jumped multiple times. Again, I love my dog, but come on....5/6 days later? Wait for a snow and follow coyote tracks to that one.
I guess my final thoughts on this one are that you should keep in mind too that the difference between a dog from good hunting/tracking bloodlines that is properly trained vs. just "a dog" is like the difference between a prime NFL quarterback and some guy that plays football with his buddies on the weekend. "A dog" can find a deer, and may develop eventually into a good tracker, the well trained dog from good bloodlines will really shine on the tough tracks.
R
Our Dratharr found a deer for me. She had no training. Good post!
I know Mike palmer uses his Jack Russell to track wounded deer in texas. A hog guide I know always uses his jack russell to track wounded hogs with great results.
The Colorado Parks and Wildlife would much rather you lose the animal then using a dog, even if leashed, to find it.
I have a four year old female Bloodhound and I love putting her on a blood trail. She found my wifes bow kill two years ago in a NASTY cut over. They can be very useful tools when it comes to putting every effort into finding a shot animal.
yupX2 on the approach to "training"-i have worked and "trained all of my own dogs- the basics are there- the dog does it naturally- its traing to get the compliance to achieve complicated manouvers with stock dogs.
my dilemma now, is that i have my stock dogs, as i have quit cowboying, and want to "retrain "my dags to work as trail dogs- their instinct is there to track- obviously- its to get them to do it when i want them to do it- and to understand wnat i am needing them to do!!.
these are top quality dogs, they would interract/work with 6 000( yup six thousand) head of cattle every day, all year round, when i was working in the cattle industry in alberta-
so you can imagine the experience and the quality of their work!!!- these were not just ride along companions- they collected, cut sick ones out- dealt with runaways etc etc
so i think i am gonna try and get hold of that book- will be an excellent place to start.
thanks all!!
All good info here!
Bisch
Thanks for the info guys. I have never used a tracking dog before.
Fascinating thread. My current dogs are just companion animals and getting old. When they go I may need to get a Dachshund. My wife has always wanted one :D
illegal in MA. "DURING ARCHERY DEER SEASON archers shall not possess firearms on their person or use dogs."
"During shotgun deer season ...The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters."
Great Points, things the average guy wouldnt think about.
Thanks for sharing.
QuoteOriginally posted by fujimo:
mr fingers- did your dog have any training.
any help on working with scent dogs.
i have had extensive experience working with a variety of herding dogs( heelers, huntaways, catahoulas and kelpies)-dogs that i have broke in and run as cow dogs. but not had much to do with trailing dogs. i have a pair of 5 year old kelpies now, since i left the ranch. wanted some guidance to maybe get them to do some trailing.
did a little last summer in the yard with them, but could really use some guidance.
Nope no training
He wasn't even a full year old yet. I think that's why we didn't trust him fully because he was young and no training. That and he is a beagle they live by there nose. Rabbits , squirrels,other dogs, and especially deer. He can get on a fresh track really easy and it impossible to get him off. More,so than a rabbit or other dog. I end up picking him up a carrying him home. As far as blood training he knows what a dead deer smells like and he knows what one hanging in the garage smells like and even tastes like. So he has a good knowledge what he is looking for.
Luv my beagle :cool:
I just ordered the book on training dogs to track deer, and I have a very eager beagle pup who is going to get his chance. This could be a lot of fun.
I wanted a wire hair dauchound for years but they are hard to find. You would think there was more breeders with the German lines.
Great great post there
We used them a lot in europe .
Very useful and you can used any dog for that
If possible start the training as soon as possible .
I had a labrador that i stared to train at 2 months old .
QuoteOriginally posted by The Night Stalker:
I wanted a wire hair dauchound for years but they are hard to find. You would think there was more breeders with the German lines.
Tell me about it. I have been involved in the search for a well bred dachshund over a year. There are several great breeds out there but this dog was chosen for the small size. He will pretty much live with me in my truck traveling to my Canada bear camp and deer/hog camps.
For those interested in getting one of a well bred tracking dogs out of strong working lines, you will need to do some serious homework and know that you have to get on a wait list to get a pup. I would do it now as there are just a small handful of breeders in all of the US and Canada. Be prepared to go through a process akin to adopting a human baby, lol. Most breeder will only breed in the spring.
A little clarification here... Many dogs can be used as tracking dogs where you are talking about running a hot line of less than 4-6 hours old. For most folks that is more than enough. In these cases the scent is hot, there has been little confusing scent laid down by other animals in that time so the dogs has many fewer problems to work through. If your dog will be used solely by you and a close circle of friends, most dogs with a decent nose and a little training will be fine.
Every dog, however, would benefit from training. Sooner or later you will be faced with some greater level of difficulty than just going from point A to point B. A deer with no blood on the ground, non-targeted deer, rabbit, squirrels crossing the line in front of you, streams/lakes, open fields and roads are just a few of the many distractions. Training at this point will often make the difference between success and failure for you. Besides, it is fun! Just save a few deer legs (with the tarsal gland) and some blood from this season and you are set for training for the year. One of the most important aspects of training is learning to read your dog. Knowing when he is on the right track vs just investigating another deer track is something that can only be learned by the tracking team (you and him) training together.
When you move on to complex tracking situations such as cold lines of 30-40 hours, dry and windy days and working through and area where 5 rutting bucks have chased a doe around in circles for 2 hours, etc., that is where these dogs bred for this purpose will do what is nearly impossible.
Again, the book "Tracking dogs for finding wounded deer" will take you to a new level of understanding about every aspect of choosing a dog, training him correctly and most importantly understanding the complexities of scent as it relates to the dog.
I could write about this subject for days. If you know me, you know I write a great deal on the subject of string trackers and their value in the recovery of wounded big game and turkey. The loss of any animal just about crushes me. I can honestly say that given the choice between having 25 well trained human blood trackers and a single well trained blood dog on the trail of a wounded buck, I will take the dog every time.
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Jerry, you have a PM regarding a breeder.
R
Did not come through Ryan, Send it via email to stickbowjerry@hotmail.com
Jerry, sorry, I wrote it after my post - check again...just sent.
R
There is a very active group of guys in Maryland that take there blood tracking serious. I think they would argue the statement that there is no training involved. Making sure the dog tracks your deer and not fox, rabbits, or what ever he smells is a chore. Running blood tracks over the weekends and making they are more complicted each time is work. Learning to read the dog is training in itself for the handler. If you evr get a chance to watch a really good dog it is amazing.
i have been using dogs for blood trailing for years using mostly NAVHDA and similar training and guidance....first with a kurzhaar and soon will be training a drahthaar. If you use a methodical and consistent approach you will have success if dog has any desire whatsoever...
I added a special collar/leash combination so mine would know it is TRAILING time and not bird hunting or fox hunting time or just play time. LOL
I have a miniature long haired daschund and so far she's found 3 deer.
I found it necessary to keep the helpers back because they always want to find the deer but start crowding the dog.The dog needs room to sometimes circle and find the trail if the deer changed direction.
I never believed such a small dog would be an asset but she's tracked game that would have been lost otherwise. One other thing, always trust your dog, i was ready to pull her off the trail and thankfully didn't. She was always right.
Would a Basset Hound do well at deer tracking?
QuoteOriginally posted by Burnsie:
Would a Basset Hound do well at deer tracking?
I heard they have. The best noses of all the hounds.
QuoteOriginally posted by The Night Stalker:
I wanted a wire hair dauchound for years but they are hard to find. You would think there was more breeders with the German lines.
They are hard to find! I searched and searched only to find out it wouldn't be easy. When I had just about given up a guy that I sent a message to in Texas replied that he had 3 pups that would be ready Dec 1st and he had one left! I sent my deposite immediately. It is his last litter as he will no be breeding again. Finding a wirehair from German bloodline with proven parents is tough!
Can't wait to get my pup and start training. Best of luck.
I use GSPs in the german testing system blood tracking is a big piece. I do NAHVDA testing and training but add blood tracking on my own. My bitch is 2 for 3 this year. The third is still going in my opion. Its hsrd to beat the nose of a well breed GSP
Forgive my ignorance but what is a GSP?
Thanks
German Shorthaired Pointer they are do it all dogs, upland game waterfowl, fur and blood tracking. They have best personality of any dogs ive been around and make grate compainons. For blood tracking i would buy from a good NAHVDA or DK breedings.
I had a bad experience once with trailing dogs, but I blame the handlers and not the dogs.
I have herd that the hunt has been breed out of alot of the basset hounds as with many other old hunting breeds that become pets and show dogs. The best thing is rearch a solid hunting breeding program. I think any well breed hunting dog with a nose could do it if trained. Some say the smaller dogs might have a advantage being lower and slower but not im not sure about that. We have a guy in are traditional club that uses Mountain Cur dogs regularly for a fee with local hunters on the eastern shore of md. He does well with those dogs
Trails and hunt tests are 2 different venees. Working dogs of breed need a job to do.
german short haired pointer.
the outfit i guided for in south africa used jack russels-
"untrained" but boy were they good, the only problem was trying to get them off the animal when they had found it- we would draw straws to see who would get "savaged" :eek:
Funny fast story my oldest GSP would stand beside me while i praticed if i missed and, loose a arrow in the woods she would go in search it outvand stand over it till i came over and dug it out of the leafs. Bitch was money no matter what. Shes the one i use on bloodas well. Dogs are amazing
When i was in South Africa hunting they used Jacks too and they were vary good the the only down side was if the animal needed alittle more time to die, you had to shoot it as fast as you could becouse those little dogs would try to fight it no matter what it was and were in danger once they made contact. It was really cool to watch tho.
I bought a pup this spring for this. The breed is a deutcher wachtelhund. These dogs are a multi purpose breed and can be used for many things. My pup is now 6 months old and has been on 3 blood trails. He is really doing very well. The nose on these dogs is amazing. They are very good natured and beautiful dogs. If anyone is interested the last time I talked to the fellow that owns my pups sire he was taking names for an upcoming litter. I'd be glad to talk to anyone about this feel free to send me a pm.
had to google that- neat looking dogs-german spaniels- similar in looks to a springer spaniel.
your dog sounds like it is doing well!!
I will thro this out there. I do have abit of experence training dogs. Exposer is everything. In most cases ur working dogs want to please you the easier you help them understand what ur asking the faster you get to the end goal exsposure exposure and start them young 10-12 wks old when i start my guys . good luck guys with this
I got my Drahthaar this spring at 8 weeks old. In the first 2 weeks we had him trailing bears with us. I did a bunch of practice trails this summer to help train him. So far this fall he has been on 2 elk and 4 deer trails. Haven't had a hard trail yet to really test him. Ittakes a bit to learn to read the dog properly and trust them. Sure hoping for some more blood trails soon. If I would stop using Simmons heads I'm sure I could get some tougher trails. Lol
Good stuff! The best thing in the begining for the pup is be successful every time out, you will get the chance to test him. And when you do please share. Happy hunting
Good to hear gsp are great all around do it all hunting companions I have a 6 month old on my lap next to my beagle.
We got her for hoping she would be a good water foul / bird dog for my son he likes shot gun hunting more than bow. Which is ok. And it's nice to hear maybe she will find my lost arrows too.
As far as breeding the hunt out of some dogs I can attest not my beagle the hunt is so deeply imbedded in him. It's almost ridiculous
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It is pretty hard to beat the WHD! Great house pets too! Don't be fooled by someone selling pups with a bloodline that "will track anything". That is the wrong kind of dog. You want one that only blood tracks.
The blood tracking desire, ability and nose power of a a real tracking dachshund is really something to see.
Even so, actually handling the dog and working with it to become a great tracker is a lot of work. If you think blood trailing is going to be your hobby you be willing to give up some hunting time or be retired! You need patience, a working man family man out tracking a buddy's deer at 10:00 on a weeknight isn't going to have the patience.
That just means for most of us our tracking dog will never be as good as it could really be.
So realistically, most of us with a blood tracker will have good and bad days tracking. We won't be experts. Nothing wrong with that! Just realize it and be ok with it on those days when you can't find the deer.
I was able to work with mine a good bit during her first year on practice tracks and real tracks. She really has the instinct to blood track. She got pretty good but worked a little fast when she was young. Now she is older and slower. It's easier. A young dog can really wear you out going through a corn field. She has recovered about a dozen or so in 9 years. We don't have a huge population of deer here. Some of you will have many more opportunities to track.
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
GREAT post, Jerry!
The guy you quote mirrors our experience with hunters on cold calls exactly.
The biggest problems we face are:
1. Extremely disturbed tracks - as the guy talks about in your quote
2. Hunters that don't mark the track - we have spent up to 45 minutes looking for the blood trail the hunters tracked but didn't mark - talk about messing up a track!
3. Hunters that don't know their own hunting area - I had to buy a GPS because we have tracked for hunters that continually get lost on areas as small at 40 acres
4. THE WORST MISTAKE - hunters that follow up too early and jump the deer. You cut your odds of recovery at least in half by making this mistake. Amazing how outfitters, guys with lots of experience etc will CONTINUALLY make this mistake.
We run into people all the time that expect the dog to work miracles - find deer jumped multiple times on very disturbed tracks - find deer that aren't even fatally wounded!!! I love my dog, but he can't make your high shoulder or "through the top of the back" shot into a fatal hit!
Boy, we could tell stories about hunters....heck there is an outfitter, and an experienced QDM guy with lots of years hunting and managing whitetails, on another forum asking for help for one of his clients on a buck they shot last SATURDAY, and jumped multiple times. Again, I love my dog, but come on....5/6 days later? Wait for a snow and follow coyote tracks to that one.
I guess my final thoughts on this one are that you should keep in mind too that the difference between a dog from good hunting/tracking bloodlines that is properly trained vs. just "a dog" is like the difference between a prime NFL quarterback and some guy that plays football with his buddies on the weekend. "A dog" can find a deer, and may develop eventually into a good tracker, the well trained dog from good bloodlines will really shine on the tough tracks.
R
Ryan is right on all counts. I once had a hunter call me that had shot a "big buck" a week earlier and wanted me to track it. There's probably no dog on earth that can follow a 150 hour track. Most usually a dog will be called in as a last resort meaning the hunter and helpers have walked the trail several times spreading blood every where and made the job much harder for the dog.
Some hunters will call even when they know the hit was marginal just hoping it might be dead or they have talked themselves into believing the hit was better than it actually was. A good tracking dog cannot find the animal if it is not dead. My jagdterrier is 7 years old and is pretty good but we only find 2 to 3 deer out of 10 tracks. Except for close friends, I have mostly quit as tracking can be a pretty tiresome job, mostly because of getting calls at 9:00 or 10:00 at night. Anyone owning a good tracker and wishing to get into bloodtrailing for others can usually find more work than they want.
I agree Bill. As for me i 'm not getting in to tracking other peoples deer only my own, family and on are lease. If word gets out you have a good dog it can be a pain in the a#& like you say.
I have a Drahthaar and a German Wirehaired Dachshund, both come from german hunting lines.
The Drahthaars are amazing as versatile dogs, they are just incredibly smart dogs and a great "do it all" dog for the avid hunter. Very active, will never get tired, and can hunt all day. They also make a great family dog as well, my kids love her.
The GWD comes in a smaller package, easy to travel with on hunts. Stable temperament and just great family dogs. I find that the tracking style (slower and less pull) of this dogs, fits me better as a bowhunter to use as tracking my wounded game in my area.
Both breeds have some great testing programs that encourage you to prepare your dog as they are maturing. It is so important to give them the exposure at the right time, because genetics plays a huge role and is important as a beginning point, but the owner (and the exposure it gives to the pup during the first 6-8 months) plays an equally important role on having a good tracking dog. It takes a lot of time to have a finished dog (if there is such a thing!).
Great post!
A dog is a good friend , but having a friend and hunting buddy with a good dog is priceless,
thanks DenTrad
The breeds that are breed specifically for tracking might be the best at it for hard core use, but don't think other breeds can't be a huge asset. I have a young Boykin spaniel that has done a great job on the trails he has had so far. I did get the book and do the training, and it really has helped.
Our Boykin fits our personalities and lifestyles better than some of the other breeds, so that was the main criteria for us. But he more than holds his own when he gets on a blood trail. I think any dog with a good nose and intelligence can make a reliable blood trailer.
The comments and suggestions on how not to mess up a trail are spot on for any breed. Do everything you can to give your dog the best chance you can from the beginning.
QuoteOriginally posted by BWallace10327:
The Colorado Parks and Wildlife would much rather you lose the animal then using a dog, even if leashed, to find it.
Same thing in Kansass.
Finally, after a 1.5 year search in literally multiple countries, I have found a blood dog! I just got the news this morning and I am about to bust with excitement. I was able to locate a litter of Bavarian Scent Hounds and I am chomping at the bit to get to my new pup.
The noses on these dogs noses are legendary and they are arguably the best blood dogs in the world when you consider size, temperament and desire to track on cold lines. My pup is 9 weeks old and I have been stacking up bear and deer legs, skins and blood for his training for months. I feel like a kid at Christmas. For you tradgang guys coming to my hunts in Georgia and bear camp in Canada, you had better shoot strait or bring a treat for him because he will be on the job for you, lol.
Now all I have to do is make the short little drive from Georgia to Illinois to pic him up...
I researched those Bavarians, very cool dogs. In the end I went for old faithful and got a pit bull cross of which Ive had several variations of from full to half for over 30 years. I was looking for a pet mores than a hunting dog in the end.
For someone who is looking for a straight hunting dog, a Bavarian is hard to beat. Pair him with a Jagd Terrier and they will be hell on wheels. A look at any European hunting website will invariably have a pic of hunters with Bavarians in tow.
Congrats on your new pup Jerry. Show some pics when you get him.
QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:
The breeds that are breed specifically for tracking might be the best at it for hard core use, but don't think other breeds can't be a huge asset. I have a young Boykin spaniel that has done a great job on the trails he has had so far. I did get the book and do the training, and it really has helped.
Our Boykin fits our personalities and lifestyles better than some of the other breeds, so that was the main criteria for us. But he more than holds his own when he gets on a blood trail. I think any dog with a good nose and intelligence can make a reliable blood trailer.
The comments and suggestions on how not to mess up a trail are spot on for any breed. Do everything you can to give your dog the best chance you can from the beginning.
I have been playing with my Chiwawa, AKA "Pocket Tracker". I have not had him on a real blood trail yet. I can't wait to see how he reacts to a deer instead of a treat at the end of the trail. He does like cup cakes also!
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07728_zpsc50edbb3.jpg) (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/Benjy45/media/TradGang/DSC07728_zpsc50edbb3.jpg.html)
CLICK on the below picture for a short video!
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/th_MOV04892-1.jpg) (http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/MOV04892-1.mp4)
"Your not taking that poor .....'' Oh yes he is!
Hopefully, I CAN take him tonight! :laughing:
That is awesome Benjy. I may ask to borrow the little guy for my bear camp this year but you may get him back a little shaky and with bigger eyes, lol.
Here is the newest employee at Russell Outdoor Guides! Man I am excited. Can you all tell I am a dog guy?
Meet Karo.
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/2013-11-27_11-59-30_224_zpsbd3c15eb.jpg)
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/2013-11-27_11-41-01_348_zps98d261dc.jpg)
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/2013-11-27_11-48-19_295_zpsf4409f83.jpg)
Sounds like training the dog is only part of your challenge in getting your own blood trailer Benjy! Hope that works out for ya!
:biglaugh: Only Benjy!! That boy is not right! Maybe that's why we get along so well. :laughing:
That's a good looking pup, Jerry! Congratulations
Bill
Jerry, that is a great looking Pup!
I'm sure my boy would love to go bear hunting with you, His whole family will have to come along!
The good thing about my tracker is that he will fit in my jacket, so he also doubles as a hand warmer!
The bad thing is, if he gets away from me, I can not go home!
Whip, you said something about a book for blood trailing. What book are you using?
QuoteOriginally posted by Benjy:
Jerry, that is a great looking Pup!
I'm sure my boy would love to go bear hunting with you, His whole family will have to come along!
The good thing about my tracker is that he will fit in my jacket, so he also doubles as a hand warmer!
The bad thing is, if he gets away from me, I can not go home!
Whip, you said something about a book for blood trailing. What book are you using?
Man I would be afraid that a hawk, owl or a bluejay would pick that dog off, lol.
"A Bluejay" :knothead:
As whip mentioned, a number of breeds are capable. Some that you might not expect. I have a part Australian shepherd, part german shepherd,and neither being purebred that does well. I took her along about five years ago after shooting a buck. She smelled the arrow, sniffed around a minute and then followed the trail to the animal.
Since then, she has found about ten deer and more hogs than that. Just blind luck on my part but it shows that some dogs just "take to it" so to speak.
I have started training this pup; he is picking it up pretty well. He should be ready by next year.
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac67/peastes/IMG_0022_zpsc20e3ee6.jpg) (http://s886.photobucket.com/user/peastes/media/IMG_0022_zpsc20e3ee6.jpg.html)
A good dog is hard to beat... I have used Blueticks, Catahoulas, and even an Australian Shepard over the last 30 years. I have a Catahoula "Belle" now that is a retired hog dog that is the simply the smartest dog I've ever owned, she always seems to know what her job is. Belle does not need a leash or tracking collar, she's patient and waits on me.
The little dogs are great until they have to stop a wounded buck, or doe for that matter. I hurts to loose a little best friend. A wounded deer can be really rough on a small dog. The good news is their nose is just as good as a big dog's and if kept on a leash there's never any real danger for the dog.
I have never had much luck in heavy rain, be it hog hunting, coon hunting or trailing wounded game. I have found some close trails, but in my experience the more water on the ground the worse the chance, but that's just my experience.
Anyone use a Mountain Fiest for trailing..we have a 1 1/2 year old that is relentless and extremely energetic...smart dog and a lot of personality...love antlers also.
Anyone use a Mountain Fiest for trailing..we have a 1 1/2 year old that is relentless and extremely energetic...smart dog and a lot of personality...love antlers also.
Guess who went on a blood trail this last week end. We still have a ways to go but he did find the deer with a little help keeping him on the trail...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07774_zpsb354e79a.jpg) (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/Benjy45/media/TradGang/DSC07774_zpsb354e79a.jpg.html)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07777_zps8407939c.jpg) (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/Benjy45/media/TradGang/DSC07777_zps8407939c.jpg.html)
You keep hitting them there Benjy and that dog is never going to learn how to handle a tough trail!
Great job on both of you! Now that he knows what's on the end of a blood trail I'm betting he will do great!
Joe is the man and he KNOWS IT!
Here is my German Shorthair from hunting preserve stock. She'll blood trail deer, point them if she comes up from down wind. Plus she's great on birds, rabbits and duck fetching.
(http://i.imgur.com/a9H3RON.jpg)
7 Lakes that is a great pic of your dog! It made me laugh! She definitely is enjoying herself.
Just curious if any of the hounds used bark track ?
I trained a lab that found 60 some odd deer for me and others. With that said I'll add this. You learning the dog is as important as you teaching the dog. Dogs do not all track the same or respond in the way you expect. My lab "Zig" never followed the trail but made large down wind circles and usually found the deer in side of a minute. Drove me crazy thinking he was just running. He never barked unless the deer was still alive. His only signal that he had found the deer was that he came back to me, stood still for a moment and stared at me. After I finally learned what he was doing, I would say he was 100% on dead deer. He once tracked a deer out into a lake, swimming out 40-50 yards. The last deer he recovered was on the last day of season and I shot a doe at sunup. It started raining but I stayed in the stand until 1 pm. Zig found that doe in seconds. The only down side is that I became less concerned about my shot and became a poorer tracker. Not a problem until someone stole the dog.
7 lakes. Fine looking bird dog. I bet no bird is safe! A blood tracker is slow, low and not distracted by anything. Even the handler will have a hard time breaking the dog off a track. A blood tracker will completely change it's personality when put on the track.
I have only used a dog on one occasion to trail a wounded deer. I shot a small buck who quickly headed over the hill. I heard him fall, so I expected an easy retrieve. Unfortunately there was little blood, and, no he was not easily located.
I went to my friend's house, on whose property I was hunting, and asked if his Lab might find him. We put Buck on the scent but he seemed to only circle back to the creek, exactly the opposite direction the deer ran. We called him back a couple of times, cursing him severely, and put him back on the scent. Finally, we went to get him and put him on the leash to take him home. He was standing on top of the deer. I owed that dog many apologies for the things I had said. It is very doubtful that I would have recovered the deer in the dark without Buck.
After reading Jerry's post it is clear that I made several mistakes regarding the manner I handled the scene before putting the dog on the trail. I was lucky. The advice he gives makes a lot of sense, and I will sure keep it in mind if I find myself needing to get the assistance of a dog again.
I wish my state would reconsider allowing the tracking of downed deer.
I have a Boykin Spaniel, Rosie, who is 15 now. She has recovered 4 deer and 2 bull elk. I never trained her at all. Merely put her on a leash and took her to where the animal was hit.
She had been shocked collared out of chasing deer but seemed to know this was different.
She also worked cattle without any training.
Deaf and cataract eyes but still going pretty good.
I think you should try any dog if all else has failed.
QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:
Our Boykin fits our personalities and lifestyles better than some of the other breeds, so that was the main criteria for us. .
Excellent consideration. There are a lot of people that want a hunting dog, but don't want some of the things that can go with it. Hunting and tracking dogs can be great pets for the right owners, but they aren't for everybody. I'm always amazed by people that buy dogs that are bred to bay on a trail and then complain that the dog barks...
I am getting a Rhodesian Ridgeback in March. One of the considerations was no baying.
Here is our 7 year old female yellow Lab named Taylor. She just took to it tracking naturally. Found 5 deer this year, all were easily trackable and several even fell within sight but she enjoyed the practice! So did I, it was a pleasure watching her unravel the trails. (http://i44.tinypic.com/2qdz89g.jpg)
That is a great looking lab Jeff. One of the best tracking dogs I have ever encountered was a lab.
This has been a fun thread to read. Lots of good information from you guys that will help prospective handlers choose a good dog. I think many more animals will be recovered as a result. Not every dog will be a good blood dog, even within the same breed. Greg D. made a great point, don't attempt to go against the breeding and temperament of certain breeds to get a great tracker. It certainly might work out for you but there is a lot of training to go through to have it fall apart at the end. You can hammer a square peg into a round hole but the results will not be exactly what you want in many cases. Here is a case in point of a great breed but a known high octane temperament breeding... I tried my lab Rocko but it was just a little bit like being hooked to a speeding train. He is a high energy goose dog that only has one running gear- WIDE OPEN. I mean this dogs muscles have muscles. It would have been very easy to see that this was not a good candidate for a tracker when I chose him as a retriever by looking at his Pedigree, parents and litter mates. His wiring is just all wrong for that job.
I have seen other labs that were wired perfectly for the job of tracking dogs. I guess what I am trying to say is if you already have a dog, give him a go. No matter the breed you may be surprised at how good they are with some training. If, however, you are starting from scratch, choose a breed AND a temperament within that breed that will give you the best chance for success.
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/1381928_10200653440162305_553709508_n1_zps527e5a54.jpg)
Put yourself in the deer's spot. How would you like this fierce beast tracking you! Scary!
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac67/peastes/P1030318_zpsffbe9816.jpg) (http://s886.photobucket.com/user/peastes/media/P1030318_zpsffbe9816.jpg.html)
I finally got a chance to slow down with hunting to lay down a training line for my new tracking dog. He will be making his debut in my 2014 bear camp. I was sure proud of him today. His nose is simply so powerful that it is difficult to believe.
Here is a quick video of Karo's first tracking job. A short liver drag about 30 minutes old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EL2j8pUGqZM
:thumbsup:
it's in french.
http://chiens-de-rouge-en-limousin.jimdo.com/
we call them ; blood dogs , they managed to find a wounded animal up to 48h after the shooting and a few kilometers away
those people don't want to be paid , nether for their time or their travelling fee .they do it just for the love of tracking and for the sake of injured games .and they don't hesitate to make a couple of hundreds kilometer to help .
they're really a blessing for the hunting image .
Your pup is looking good, Jerry!
This is Moe after a Christmas eve tracking job. This is what you get after tracking in 6" of snow when you only have 4" of legs. :D
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/a0da176f-6297-483e-8a60-2ad8b1a87925.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/zipperbows/media/a0da176f-6297-483e-8a60-2ad8b1a87925.jpg.html)
Great read.
My 3/4 coonhound 1/4 black lab is 2.5 yrs old. Tell me it's not to late to learn blood trailing.
I have put her on a few blood trails from blood I had from a deer and she did follow it to a "treat."
I really haven't done much blood training but I want to, now.
This past season I let her off leash in the hopes she would lead us to a bear on a friends farm and she did find the bear so that was great. No blood trail as the bear wasn't being hunted that day.
As a starting point for training do you guys really think the Book: :Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer" is the way to go being she is 2.5 yrs old with minimal blood trailing experience?
She does have Good obedience training.
(http://paultedrickphotography.smugmug.com/photos/i-3vVjjmd/0/L/i-3vVjjmd-L.jpg)
Hislight,
Sounds to me like you have the makings of a good blood dog. You have the OB training out of the way and at 2.5 years old you have all the silly puppy times behind you. From what you have said your dog has the basic drive so I would highly recommend that book.
Good luck to you and let us know how it turns out for you.
QuoteOriginally posted by zipper bowss:
Your pup is looking good, Jerry!
This is Moe after a Christmas eve tracking job. This is what you get after tracking in 6" of snow when you only have 4" of legs. :D
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/a0da176f-6297-483e-8a60-2ad8b1a87925.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/zipperbows/media/a0da176f-6297-483e-8a60-2ad8b1a87925.jpg.html)
Ha! That right there is funny. You need to get that dog some snow shoes.
For those that might live close enough and have a serious interest...
I am going to host a couple of blood dog training days in central Georgia this spring and summer. We are going to lay down some lines with various ages from 1-40 hours so all dogs and handlers are welcome. We are going to do some snake aversion training as well.
I have hundreds of acres to conduct the training on so this will be some very beneficial training. Shoot me a PM if you have some interest and I will ad you to the data base. Dates are TBD but I am looking at mid-March for the first dates.
to answer Gottabows question, yes a mountain Fiest would do a good job tracking.
I have used mine, good hunters.
Thats funny, Jerry!! I can just picture Moe in a set of little snow shoes tracking along!
Hislight
I would agree 2.5 years old is not to late to start a dog that has the prey drive.
One thing to consider with these large breeds. In Ohio and many other states we have to have the dog on a lead to be legal while tracking. Moe weighs about 23 pounds and pulls like a freight train. I could not imagine being tied to a 70 pound version when he is in find it mode!
Bill
QuoteOriginally posted by zipper bowss:
Thats funny, Jerry!! I can just picture Moe in a set of little snow shoes tracking along!
Hislight
I would agree 2.5 years old is not to late to start a dog that has the prey drive.
One thing to consider with these large breeds. In Ohio and many other states we have to have the dog on a lead to be legal while tracking. Moe weighs about 23 pounds and pulls like a freight train. I could not imagine being tied to a 70 pound version when he is in find it mode!
Bill
Bill is 100% correct. I sometimes exercise my little jagdterrier Suzy by putting her harness on and letting her pull me on my bicycle. She weighs all of 16 pounds and can pull me very easily. I am a good sized lad and she can pull me about as fast as this old man wants to go. :)
Just a little update on my little Bavarian blood dog, Bear. With bear camp just a bit over 4 months away, I have really been working him and he has been coming along great. He can handle anything out to two hours old which is as long as I have tried him. I took him to hog camp and let him work the real thing and he had little trouble with the hogs. I will say that at 15 weeks he was a bit unsure of what to do with the pig when he found it, lol. I think this boy has great potential.
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/IMGP8426_zps60bf5739.jpg)
I so wish we could use dogs to their full potential here.
I hope all you guys with dogs are having some positive training sessions with your pups. My sessions are going great and we are working lines out to 2 hours.
This morning, however, we crossed a training line that I put down for yesterdays training. To say I was amazed at what happened would be a big understatement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUdL0nqTUdEPx4HWQEmjDvFQ&v=isNYQEhNdUM&feature=player_detailpage
Wow, that is a smart pup. I hope my beagle does that well. Give that pup a treat!
Training continues to get better and better.
Ran another line yesterday that was 17 hours old but much longer to start to hone his ability to concentrate. This one was 800 yards with some very heavy cover. Very, very little blood as it had rained during the night. That little pup worked it out in 45 minutes.
His "trophy" at the end was a deer leg and he had a great time parading around that food plot, lol.
Very nice Jerry!
Sounds like things are going well, Jerry!
It sure is satisfying to see your pup progress.
Moe saved the day on the second to last day of our deer season on a gut shot deer. To make matters worse it rained half the night and all morning before we could get him on the track. The deer went about 400 yards and crossed two running creeks. Moe found the deer with no trouble. He sure made me proud. I'm sure your pup will do just as well with the training your putting him through.
Bill
Thanks guys. I am convinced the this entire dogs body is a life support system for his nose. This is simply the most powerful tracking breed I have ever encountered. He LOVES to work out a trail. I think he dreams of getting out there each day.
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/IMGP8526_zps811d824d.jpg)
My pup got some bling! We just received his certificates for passing his UBT-1 and UBT-2 tracking test. It was a tough test for a 5 month old pup. The UBT-2 test was administered by judges from United Blood Trackers and was 900 yards long and 17 hours old. He smoked it and was ready for more. I am sure proud of him.
12 weeks and counting till he starts his professional career as the resident blood dog in my bear camp.
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/001_zpsce29c59d.jpg)
Here he is working out an 18 hour track with only one ounce of blood over 350 yards in Georgia. (http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/jerryrussell1/0310140805_zps405a235e.jpg)
And he looks good to boot. Real fine looking dog.
Jerry -that is so cool. I am proud of Molly's brother.
She is doing well and the weather is breaking so I will be able to get into some more areas and extend here training tracks. Last weeks was the longest so far with a few twists and turns and included a mock bed. She nailed it and the only problem is her self confidence. She likes to walk right at my heals so getting her out ahead to track is her struggle. She goes 20' or so and waits for me to catch up. Not a big problem but I know as we travel and visit more locations her confidence to take right to it will grow.
Congrats again on the awards for Bear(or congrats to Bear)
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=136110
I didn't get a chance to go thru this entire discussion.
Note about the fifth post down at the above link, there will be a blood tracking dog seminar at the upcoming PBS Biennial Gathering in Cincinnati (March 28 or 29) by Walt Dixon from NY.
Man it's nice to see a good dog work. He looks like a winner. I like the coat on those dogs. I bet he will have a good life! What is he like if you just want to go for a walk? Does he come when called? My old fat wirehair dachshund is such a good girl. But she can be a knot head when you go for a walk and she gets to smelling something. I would have trouble going on a hike with her. You have to keep an eye on her all the time. She is just all nose, her life is controlled by that damn nose. She will just ignore you if she is sniffing around some holes or something. Once she locks on, you are not going to stop her.
She is right here on the couch beside me, snoring. Dang dog sleeps about 22 hours a day. My wife loves to feed her.
A very good training day with the pup. I laid down the toughest line I possibly could and aged it to 20 hours. Here is what happened. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLttGOG3Npk&feature=player_embedded
I think dogs are not allowed in Missouri to hunt. Not sure what they think about tracking dogs. Any Missourians here know the rules?
How do you keep the dog quiet? Training for one but dogs are notorious for barking and that can mess things up for other hunters as well as yourself.
Watched your video, that's really great!!
kelpies are great on hogs they don't have the nose that walkers do they are head dogs now I don't want to sound like im an expert dog trainer but I observed walkers go in on hogs and get real hurt and the kelpies would not most of the time.mho
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn225/barnardtimothy/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-03/UP%20AND%20OVER_zpsyufqsdxu.jpg) (http://s305.photobucket.com/user/barnardtimothy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-03/UP%20AND%20OVER_zpsyufqsdxu.jpg.html) his is my new girl. Picking her up on Saturday. She will be coming on many bowhunting adventures.
Great Video Jerry - thanks for posting the "real" time at the end. Molly(Bears litter sister) is doing great and with the weather breaking up here her tracks will get longer and more difficult so it is nice to know she is doing things correct.
Because I am so inexperienced with "dog tracking" I assumed these videos online showed the dog walking the line like an arrow shot while Molly stops, thinks, moves off the line a bit, circles back, thinks, ponders, and off she goes a few more yards, etc.. I thought she was slow but really she works like Bear although her confidence needs a little improving so she will lead and not follow me so much. Tough to get her to track a deer if she is afraid to take the lead.
I set a line last week that was with little blood on a hoof, and a few bounces of a piece of hide on a string that had multiple 90's and crossed a 40' wooden bridge. She stopped at the bridge to do some thinking and then took right off across, nose down. These dogs are amazing and so much fun to train. I can't wait for fall!!
Bob,
I think it is the methodical process that this breed uses in tracking that makes them so powerful. I have a lab that can track at 50 mph but he overruns everything. Bear rarely passes the line by more than 4'-6' before slamming on the breaks and getting back on line.
You fear of Molly's timid nature will pass soon. When Bear first hit the woods he was very timid and had me seriously concerned. I even went so far as to call a guy that has a great deal of knowledge on this breed. He said it wall pass quickly and he was right. Bear now has nothing short of extreme focus on his job at hand and is fearless. He is a bit advanced over Molly simply because without snow, we have had much more time in the woods than you guys. I look forward to hearing more stories from your training with Molly.
Our next training steps will be moving towards tracking in the dark, snake aversion and acclimation to livestock. This should be fun...
Well that is another obstacle altogether and should be exciting to get some night tracking later this summer. She is more confident daily so I am certain you are correct and very diligent on the track. You tip on getting her to understand the follow the DOTS is spot on. Once she learned that one leads to two leads to.... she has really taken off.
I am not worried at all that she will perform at the highest level and certainly well enough to accomplish the goals I have and the learning process for both Molly and I is a great experience.
Good news for her and I is there are no snakes here in Michigan to speak of - at least the # of venomous species is so limited it is almost non-existent. I lifetime in the woods as am amateur herpetologist and I have seen/caught two rattlers and both were within 20' of each other. Just very, very rare.
Thanks again Jerry - totally appreciate all that you have done in this process and look forward to sharing stories as these pups grow up together.
at some point I will attempt to load some amateur video of her in action. 45 degrees today and 60 on Monday so the practice season is coming into full effect!!
TTT. It kills me to hear the stories of heart ache when someone loses a big game animal. I wanted to bump this one to the top so that everyone is aware of the incredible power of a tracking dog. If legal, use one. We owe it to the game we pursue.
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Tedd, sounds like your dog has you trained instead of the other way around. I'd talk to a good dog trainer about basic obedience. It doesn't stifle their hunting drive at all and makes it so much better when you can trust them off the leash.
They still have to be on a leash in Michigan when trailing (and just about everywhere else I know of), but that just forces them to slow down and work things out better.
OK Ryan and Jerry. I have been reading these. My ( recently retired) wife has been looking for a smaller dog to call her own ( I have a WPG that is MY dog).
I suggested a wirehaired Teckel and that she could train it to blood trail and if I have a deer that I am having trouble with finding, she and her dog can come find it and we could do this together... emphasis on the "together".
She started giggling, rather uncontrollably and asked... " where does one acquire a teckle? At the Bait and Teckle shop?" Then she turned and walked away.
I guess that means she wants a rat terrier or a poodle or some such.
ChuckC