So I have decided to try and follow in my fathers footsteps and pursue making hunting videos and shows. But instead of compounds and modern methods, it will be strictly tradational. So of these choices of show themes what would you most watch?
Good luck with this! Don't see why you necessarily have to pick one or the other. If you have a spectacular hunt, of course you're going to want to film it. In between times, a little show and tell is always interesting, too.
A number of years ago Gary Morris (C&W star) had a hunting show on that was great, very low key, informative, misses and hits, no yelling/fist pumping, even selfbow hunts. I was very sad when it went off the air.
Funny, just today I remarked to my wife how awful the hunting shows are today, and how I really wish someone from "our" world would put a good show together.
You have some good ideas, and you may even be able to incorporate several into one show to keep the topics interesting.
Go getem' Brandon
As long as you would kill real world animals, not just P and Y critters I would watch. Also not to many commercials or pushing of products. Good Luck in your endeavor .
A few requests based on my observations of the current trash offered....
Show accomplished hunters applying real world tactics and hunting truly wild game. I am not interested in seeing an eight year old kill a 150 inch whitetail buck over a corn pile.
Place emphasis on the lifestyle of hunting with traditional equipment. I think most would agree it is not something that only takes place between late September and Christmas, it is an all year and in many cases lifelong pursuit of improvement. Most hunting shows depict ways to make the hunt "easier"....which I find deplorable.
Above all I would like to see heavy emphasis on hunting ethics. I believe good ethics do not change depending on chosen equipment. Regardless of whether one chooses to hunt with a self bow, or the most modern firearm, the ethics of the hunt are constant and unwavering. I believe that most folks on mainstream hunting shows present hunters as brainless rednecks, only interested in "whacking" animals that most folks will never have the opportunity to pursue. All respect for the animal and the pursuit is lost.
Just one mans input. I say best of luck. If you achieve what you are talking about you can guarantee I will be tuning in.
Thanks,
Jake
Good luck with your endeavor!
Bisch
I give up watching hunting shows about 3 years ago. I just cant stomach all the hype and BS. I do watch trad bowhunting dvds from time to time.
Please, leave out the wild fist pumping end zone celbrations over the "great shot" made possible only by the wiz bang shaft hafted with the murder on my mind broadhead along with a recitation of the obvious incredible P&Y score of an animal that has not been recovered yet, usually followed by a return in the morning to finally track and recover the animal.
No whitetails from a treestand.
Add some beginning to end " how it's made" on the equipment used. Show who and how the arrow/bow/string/quiver was made.
Keep It Simple.
A friend of mine had a mostly trad TV show for a few years on Sportsman Channel. It is SOOOO difficult to secure stable sponsors to pay for these shows.
The cost to the network is very high. This is why (and I hate em too) so many commercials are in them. Frankly, many of them look like 100% commercials. The Ozontics craze is making me sick these days.
Another thing lots of folks wouldn't know is how wishy-washy sponsors are. Would be sponsors will pleddge their support months ahead of time, expenses incurred, and then the sponsors never pay up leaving cameramen without pay, hosts going broke, etc.
The ones who make it have gimmicks that keep me from watching them. There is an especially rampant gimmick many employ these days and I switch the channel as soon as I can. They have to go overboard with the drive to market themselves.
I have found the Bob Costas treatment to be very helpful in enjoying some of these shows -- I mute the show and just watch the pictures. I don't need the nimrod telling me about the moon, fronts, Ozontics, or the latest in stink-off while I watch a deer walking through the woods.
Truly none. Just not interested in watching hunting. It's not a spectator sport....
You need an option for all of the above. I see no reason to limit what you cover.
The "hunting" shows on TV now are over the top disgusting; I'm not sure you would be able to break through the current negative image to present something decent. I'd be thinking more along the lines of a documentary to present a history of the various aspects of "traditional" archery; that being any stick and string weapon without cables, cams etc.
QuoteOriginally posted by BAK:
Truly none. Just not interested in watching hunting. It's not a spectator sport....
X-2
I grew tired of the hunting shows long ago and do not watch...or plan to. Finding sponsors for such a show would be difficult in my opinion, considering the fact most shows are filled with disgusting ads...and they are the ones who will finance it. I enjoy an occasional DVD that I already know a little about. Good luck coming up with a show "I" would watch because I've already decided I will not watch.
Like Meateater, except with trad gear. Do not focus on trophy animals, just legal ones. Emphasis the desire for meat, and show how the hunt unfolds from beginning to end, including scouting.
Dido to jkm97. Meateater with a longbow. Guy has a classy program.
I would love to see a show with a 'real' hunter that would be just that, real. to show the passion of the hunt and the animals, not just the size of antlers and blowing their chest out on all their 'accomplishments'. I think the best hunters out there, are not on tv, and would kill circles around most of the tv hunters, if the tv hunters had to actually do their own scouting, hang their own stands, and not have all the 'work' done for them. too many shows nowadays are nothing more than a commercial, with commercial breaks...a plugfest that really has more to do with pushing products than the actual hunt. too many people are commercialized, and care more about their reputation and the number of inches on a set of antlers. I love a big buck as much as the next guy, and will eventually get 'my monster', but I think the tv stuff has lost what is real, and what is really important. I love being in the woods, the experiences, the encounters...and the sheer beauty of what God gave us to enjoy. I think a show that was real, and expressed the real passion of what we do...and the love of the animals that most 'real' hunters have would be great. I would watch for sure. a show that was about what bow hunting is really about,and not all the egos and products.
show the passion, show the real hunts...good and bad. teach that a successful hunt is not just one that ends at a dead deer. hunting to me is about the hunt, the experiences in the woods, the birds, the squirrels, the beauty of the woods themselves, everything as a whole experience...seeing deer, and taking deer is just the icing on the cake. but I love just being out there, no matter if I kill something or not. I love the meat, and that is the main reason I do it, but all the experiences that come with it make it into something that no other experience in the world can come close to. I think you will do great and now that you have some input on what a lot of us are looking for in a show, go do it...have fun, and be real...and I think you will be very successful with tons of viewers! good luck and keep us updated please.
As mentioned in a number of replies, "hunting shows" have to be sponsored. The companies that market their products for sale want just that, sales! They are not particularly interested in a show that does not offend our traditional sensibilities. Beyond this I will be x3 with BAK: "Truly none. Just not interested in watching hunting. It's not a spectator sport..."
I don't watch too many hunting shows since most are all crap. However, the topics you polled on would all be good. I'd also add doing public land hunts to keep it real for many of us.
Whatever you do, DO NOT talk about antler score and NEVER refer to a particular buck as a "shooter". Man I hate that.
Or name them...
NO STUPID BACKGROUND MUSIC! Yes, I shouted that. I had to to be heard over the irritating soundtrack. Let us hear the woods. Let us hear your breathing pick up when a nice deer gets close. In case you are still wondering, I HATE the "dramatic" background music.
I hunt from tree stands, so I see no reason to only show ground hunts. Just don't fist pump and pat yourself on the back. Give the animal the respect it deserves. Actually hunt. Don't "go back to look at the footage" to decide if you made a good shot or not. Check your arrow, look for blood, tell us if its bright and bubbly or dark from the liver, or if you have stomach contents on it.
I would watch a real hunting show. I used to go to the theater and watch Fred Bear and an Indian guy who drew his string to the center of his nose. I wish I could recall his name. Those were good shows. Make something like that.
Thanks for all tr imput guy! I have been watching my Fred bear DVD collection today in between church for inspiration. I want my show to be as much of a hunting show as it is a nature show. I plan on hunting from both ground and tree stands as that's how I hunt and just bassicly film my every day hunting trips. I probley won't be able to have it on tv, I was thinking more of an online show that way there is no comercials ect. And I will only mention products I use. Not becouse they made the kill possible but becouse they are good american made products I believe in like maddog bows ect. Hopefully I will get this going soon! I plan to film on the hill gang ho hunt so hopefully that will be some awsome footage!
I never really watch any hunting shows and kinda agree that hunting isn't a spectator sport. But, done right showing the "lifestyle" I would watch. Also small game ,interviews, maybe shop tours with some boyers or other suppliers. And a cooking segment would be great.
Best of luck to you!
From your selection, I probably would not watch any. I am tired of 'I'. The shows today are mostly trash. It seems the only way you can be a 'hunting star' is be fat, have a lip full of ?? (who knows?), crucify the English language, and hunt very private farms or game ranches. All designed to show the big 'I'.
Agree with Selfbow, Gary Morris and Brad Smith had the best all traditional (mostly selfbows they made) bowhunting show ever. Why not go back to that type of format? Why not show other traditional bowhunters doing their thing and giving teaching moments rather than film yourself all the time? That I would watch.
In my opinion, It's not going to be easy.
Existing "Outhouse Channel", self promoting, "celebrities" have ruined it.
If you are not going to try to make money on this, it's one thing, but...it takes sponsors or it takes about $100K, and a season's worth of useable video to "buy" your own show on TV.
But if somehow you can portray why we choose to take up the pure stick and string...
why we like to keep it simple... why we consider any legal animal a trophy... why we just like to be outdoors, mentor others, include some educational footage, some history, some tributes to our forefathers...
I look forward to your show whether on TV or streaming videos on the computer.
Best of luck, great idea, not trying to disuade you, just take the high road, be different, show reverance to the animals.
You know already what we prefer to watch.
Just persuade others to do the same.
Even if every Trad Gang member watched, would that be enough eyeballs to cover the expense?
I will say that I occasionally do a YouTube search and watch hunter-produced videos of their traditional hunts. Some of these are far better than anything on TV.
The only hunting show on TV that I will make a point to watch these day's is Fred Eichler's. He is real to me even though I've never met and don't know him.
I used to watch Bowhunter but it is fast loosing its appeal to me.
If I watched, I'd love to see a show about someone who truly lived off the land-even to the point of making his own equipment. Knapping points and truly using his/her kills. Be a darn sight better than watching people kill for fun.
None of them, I just don't view it as a spectator sport.
It's an over due need to the hunting industry. (Traditional Only)....There have been several good points about the difficulty of putting the show together, specifically dealing with the problems of sponsorship. IMHO it clearly needs to be done online. YouTube would seem to me to be the perfect place. I recommend touching base with Dave Mullins of Public Land Bowhunters. I do not personally know him but have watched a number of his videos and they are all done in the fashion you seem to be targeting. No cornfield near by, on public land, etc...they include the entire process-gear, scouting, building natural ground blinds, hunting, etc....Hope he doesn't mind me referring you to him, but he seems like a stand up dude with a keeping it real attitude. As for YouTube, I use it a lot to search for this type video and if you had a Channel with them I think many would seek and find it.....Best of Luck :clapper:
Trab in NY
Thanks for putting several options on the table. I don't have cable or satellite so my chances of seeing such a show on the TV are slim. Might watch a youtube now and then but unless reminded I'd not regularly search it out. A traditional only, free range hunt would be nice to see once in a while. The whole hunt from planning to the freezer, from gear chosen, the camp, the hunt, the trophy the meal with family and friends. Best of luck in your pursuits.
Maybe PBS would buy a well made balanced look at trad bowhunting?
I like the idea of both the tradbow and a flintlock. I've always wanted to try one. Im not into the new versions of the smoke pole. I do love trad bow stuff but not that long ago we used to call guys hunting with recuvres just bowhunting... no "trad" required.
...you could even mix in a little old skool shotgunning. I have a name for your show. The throwback hunter.
I do think making a hunting show worth filming is difficult. My favorite for a long time was the heartland bowhunter show for the cinematography. The bowhunter magazine guys did a good job and every now and then punctuated the show with trad equipped staffers. The programs now are all full of what I call system hunting that relies on guides, gizmos and gimicks... cue loud annoying, patronizing and repetitive commercials and drag out 8 minutes of footage for 30 minutes.
A big part of hunting that shows cannot capture is the boredom, frustration and toil - which leads to risks, adaptation and learning... hopefully a little success. The shows just show the last two parts. I do it for the challenge and the love of the outdoors and not because it looks easy. I like your idea and I hope the networks you pitch to see what you see.
I would like to see what it is like after a harvest. The real hunt begins. The gutting, skinning, capping, quartering, handling of meat,packing, and processing the meat. Also showing the respect for a animals life that was taken.
I like the idea of doing a trad hunting show but having tips in the show would be good too. You could do a 5 minute segment with a self bow builder, or a shooting tip, or making various trad archery things.
Good luck let us know where we can watch it!
Interesting thread!
I think the guys that say it isn't a spectator sport would be interested in watching if it hit closer to home. What I mean is that if the shows portrayed things as most of us do it then we could relate and it would be interesting. For example...there is nothing more boring for me to watch then an African hunt...never done it, likely won't...and can't relate. If I was to partake in one later in life, I'd likely enjoy watching it more after that point.
Long winded interviews from guys that shouldn't be talking on camera isn't what interests me. When 11 minutes of a 12 minute video is talking I turn it off. Let the footage tell the story, not the hunter.
Then there's all the stuff we all agree on...dramatic rehearsed shot reactions...horrible phrases.... fist pumps....bad music....huge expanses of private land with food plots...etc. I'd love to have tons of food plotted land but I don't, I can't relate, therefore don't enjoy watching it.
As far as stand or ground hunting...I'd like to see an adaptable hunter. If there's a good tree to sit in...do it! If there is no good tree...sit on the ground! If the wind switches, don't go home...just climb down and find ground cover.
Point being...make a show that portrays how we really do things...people will watch!!
I might watch the survival format simply because I like them, but overall don't care for watching hunting films. Personally, making a shot is only for myself, and I don't care to share the image with others; likewise, I don't care to watch the shots on game made by others. I like the stories and the trophy pictures (if done tastefully), though.
I'm not a fan of "hunting" shows but I would watch an informative show that truly represents the entire process from gear to scouting through meat preperation. A light hearted real life look at traditional lifestyle and hunting would be enjoyable to me if it were done in a respectful and dignified way.
This was covered recently in another thread.
I would watch a show that had a variety of species hunted, all traditional, no in your face ads during the show. A down to Earth host(trad people generally are).
Also, one that shows all the preperation and practice involved in hunting game with a trad bow.
I like trab's suggestion.
Hook up with Dave Mullins.
I don't know him either, but he knows how to produce a professional quality video.
He has done a lot of stuff for Rick Welch.
If Rick uses him, you know he's gotta be real.
I wouldn't try and sell it to a hunting channel by the way. You will never convince me that a traditional bowhunting show wouldn't have tens of thousands of viewers. Have you seen some of the shows on TV?
We definitely DON'T need another show with a guy 25' up a tree shooting whitetails. That has been done to death.
A"Meat Eater" with trad gear is a good idea. It's so well done even my wife will watch it.
Good luck getting it done. I wish you all the best!
Think about what hunters want to know about traditional archery? Many hunters would love to try traditional archery, but have no clue where to begin.
You could do segments on how to bare shaft an arrow.
You could explain about finding a bow that's right for you, meaning best weight and length.
You could chrono a hunter shooting a 55lb bow and then a 45lb bow and then show why new hunters to the sport should look to a lower weight bow.
You could do segments on sharpening, which many cannot do well.
Building arrows? Selecting the right cedar arrows?
Form suggestions, common form mistakes could be covered.
What nearly all hunting shows do is under-cover how best to blood track and recover poorly hit game. Sure, hosts say that "backed out until tomorrow", but then they cut to the dead animal the next day. Show what a liver hit blood trail looks like compared to a lung hit. Explain WHY you need to back out on a liver/gut hit and that 8-10 hours may be needed, not 3-4. Other suggestions about proper lights to bring, marking tape to find if you have to come back, etc.
Shows show how to get to the shot, but are thin about what to do after the shot.
How about how to process and package deer? Cabela's has a whole "food" dept and I bet might be interested in a sponsorship concerning jerky making, food savers, knives, hoists, etc.
You could discuss why certain quiet clothing works better than others, etc.
I would think there'd be a decent pool of sponsors, from Black Widow, Magnus, Cabela's, 3 Rivers, Kustom King, etc. to finance a show.
As others suggested, no loud metal music, don't orgasm on camera when you shoot something as if it's your first deer ever, don't act like a Nugent DB that embarrasses us as the hunting community.
Figure out the questions people have about traditional archery and then answer them.
To be honest, I wouldn't just limit the show to traditional archery. I'd also include traditional muzzleloaders and perhaps the "cowboy caliber" lever guns. It would expand interest yet retaining the same theme and would increase your sponsor pool. Track of the Wolf, T/C and Traditions Muzzleloaders may sponsor you if you did "how to" and hunts with side lock muzzleloaders. And I suspect most everyone here at tradgang would watch a show with a mix of trad bows and traditional muzzleloaders.
I do like the idea of including traditional blackpowder along with mostly Trad bowhunting.
Thanks for all the imput guys! SO I have decided on what I am going to do, and am going to start filming on saturday. I plan on calling the show "Throw back outdoors" (thanks for the name idea) And cover all aspects of the sport, from pratice, tuning, hunting, stalking, tracking to taking big game, and preparing and cooking it. I am also going to include small game, and trapping, and use traditional bows, my flintlock, and cowboy actions rifles/pistols. but mostly bows. I also plan to film other people when ever I can, give tips, advice and there hunts! I am going to use no modern equipment if I can keep from it, and teach back to the basics. I will let you guys know of the progress :goldtooth:
What type of camera set up do you have. Is it going to be self video or with a cameraman? This is super cool...hope it works out!
I have a super cool custom .58 flintlock if someone from Michigan wants to take it down and use it. Problem is, after my eye surgery, I can't see the sights well enough to use it ethically anymore. So it's a flintlock looking for another kill.
Sounds great! Keep us posted on how it goes.
While I know we're straying a bit from the mission statement of Tradgang, if you do traditional muzzleloaders, I bet many would have an interest about ML shotguns for turkey, waterfowl and small game.
While I've killed several deer with sidelock rifles, I've never even fired a sidelock shotgun, let alone know how to properly load one. I suspect many here might be interested in that kind of thing also.
The hard part is to educate and still remain entertaining, by showing a hunt that likely ends with a kill.
Other thoughts are building natural ground blinds in the off season and how/where to build them. You could do a whole show at my place, we have like 20 giant "eagle nest" type blinds.
I wouldn't be afraid to have an occasional "ethics talk" round table and have 2 differing opinions of an issue to chew on, as long as everyone is respectful and sponsors aren't spooked off.
I have a cambel cam that is professional video quality. It's actually my dads and is used on his hunts for whitetail properties and monster bucks, but I have a go pro for my self filmed.
Survival shows are popular for all people would be a great way to intoduce more people to trad archery and would probally do better for main stream tv
check this one out...
http://www.backlandtv.com/watch-backland/
Survival shows are popular for all people would be a great way to intoduce more people to trad archery and would probally do better for main stream tv
Would be neat to have guest hunt with you .
Survival shows are popular for all people would be a great way to intoduce more people to trad archery and would probally do better for main stream tv
it would also be cool to include other members of this forum and do guest hunts and maybe even guest profiles. im sure several people on here would participate, I for one would offer a great ohio deer or turkey hunt in Coshocton county ohio(not sure about being on camera though, maybe). have a 'camp fire segment' with a couple of guys sitting around a fire or something of the like, and discussing different topics, or tips...but that was already mentioned. good times, humor and laughter would always be a welcome addition. I borrowed the Wensel brothers' video from dirty bird, 'spirit of the bow' ...and I have watched it three times in two days, I love the way they are serious, give tips, and have a lot of fun and laugh a lot...not much better than those two guys right there!
or try to get the Wensels to do a guest segment! that would be cool. do a segment of the greats of the past, Fred Bear, Howard Hill, ect...
QuoteOriginally posted by jkm97:
Like Meateater, except with trad gear. Do not focus on trophy animals, just legal ones. Emphasis the desire for meat, and show how the hunt unfolds from beginning to end, including scouting.
THIS x 100.
best show on t.v., and about the only hunting show i watch every week. presents hunting in a positive light, well done, and about much more than just the kill. the commercials are there, but not during the actual show. if i want to skip them, i can.
So what did you ever do with this?
Would much prefer to view a traditional show whose host and guest's behavior respects the heartbeat that beats no more.
And no whispering. :banghead:
QuoteOriginally posted by johnnyk71:
QuoteOriginally posted by jkm97:
Like Meateater, except with trad gear. Do not focus on trophy animals, just legal ones. Emphasis the desire for meat, and show how the hunt unfolds from beginning to end, including scouting.
THIS x 100.
best show on t.v., and about the only hunting show i watch every week. presents hunting in a positive light, well done, and about much more than just the kill. the commercials are there, but not during the actual show. if i want to skip them, i can. [/b]
x2.
Thanks kirkll, that show looks great.
Don't say stuff like "he's down, he's down". Don't get your cellphone out to text your buddy in another state to tell him that you got one. Also I watched a hunting show where a guy said that his 6 year old son asked him "to harvest a mature buck". Can you imagine a 6 year old talking like that? What a stupid thing to say.
Or my favorite "he's a shooter buck"! In fact I really get tired of the whitetail in the back forty type shows.