Aloha Gang,
Due to the popularity of South's longbow limbs, Randy Burtis, Ryan Steadman, South and I got to talking about a new riser design. Something a little more "streamlined", something built specifically for the Stalker longbow limbs.
We decided share the design process of the new Stalker Stickbows "Jackal" with the Gang.. Feel free to comment and add suggestions along the way as we'll be documenting the entire process.
Thank you!
Ryan K. Sanpei
Here was our first correspondence. The top profile is of the current Coyote, the bottom, the prototype Jackal.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/J1.jpg)
:thumbsup: Looking forward to this...
:campfire:
:coffee:
:campfire: :coffee:
It looks nice,Ryan!
I like the more streamlined shape. My biggest problem with most 3 pc T/D longbows was that most of them had bigger recurve style risers. Can't wait to see how these will look.
I think you will all love this design. Especially those of you who love the 3 piece longbow/recurve with simple yet elagant lines. Stay tunned there is much more to come.
So cool to see this come to fruition! Also gonna be able to put the recurve limbs on too! For those of is that prefer a smaller riser. Can't wait!!
Ooh, that is looking real promising!
Bisch
Yes!!!
We all decided it was a "go", so South glued up two Jackal handles...
First thought, "was it different enough from the Coyote???"
Side by side, Jackal on the left, Coyote on the right.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j4.jpg)
Other side of the Jackel handle.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j3.jpg)
Belly side.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j2.jpg)
At this point in time, all our correspondence was done through a few phone calls but primarily through emails and photos.
After some discussion, this was the primary shape.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j5.jpg)
Here was some of our initial thoughts. "Maybe add a small point to the heel of the grip." "Add some checkering to the handle". "We need to see it with some limbs attached to see the full profile" "What about thinning the throat a little". "Will the static limbs fit too?"
Steadman was first to send some "photo modifications".
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/stalkermodifications.jpg)
South got back to work and glued up a set of limbs for us to view the strung profile.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j6.jpg)
South also tried to add belly overlays for aesthetics.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j7.jpg)
Randy liked the overlays and offered some elk ivory for overlays (since he's the only guy with tons of elk antlers :D ). I'm just wondering if the ivory will go towards my new bow??? ;)
Looks more like a coyote with a low wrist,It is more longbowish though. It's hard to tell without handling it. South could always send me one to try out. lol...... I know... I know... nice try right.
jsparky93, yes that was a concern of ours too. You never know... If there's enough demand, South may just build one for a "TG pass around".
Here's another side view of the riser.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j8.jpg)
Just like jsparky93 mentioned about it looking too much like a Coyote, I asked South to round or "scoop" the edges nearest the limb pad.
I drew in the areas that I wanted rounded or scooped and sent the pics to the guys.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j10.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j9.jpg)
Like jsparky93 mentioned, it's hard to add suggestions without seeing the handles in person, so South had it shipped out to us on Friday.
First stop, the Hawaiian Islands... :shaka:
Here's the last look of the belly side of the risers before being boxed and shipped off...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j11.jpg)
I think making the radius less pronounced with a little straighter line from the sight window to the limb pad as well as the lower part of the grip to the limb pad would really look good. Just as long as it doesn't affect the integrity of the riser.
I agree Jason, if it doesn't affect integrity, that's the first thing that I'm taking a rasp to. I do know that he adds "cross grained strengthening supports" under the limb pads which may account for the larger radius design.
That's what makes this fun. Design, Function, Integrity, Aesthetics, etc. Trying to combine valuable insight while maintaining a "bow building" balance... South's going to have his work cut out for him on this one! In the end, he's going to regret ever asking us for input! LOL! :biglaugh:
He might lol... Im just adding my 2 cents & I am definitely not an expert.
Thank You Jason! We appreciate your insight, it's one of the reasons why we posted it on TG!
:campfire:
I may be the only one but I like the Coyote riser better, just my preference.
Danny .......... X2
QuoteOriginally posted by S2 Bowstrings:
Just like jsparky93 mentioned about it looking too much like a Coyote, I asked South to round or "scoop" the edges nearest the limb pad.
I drew in the areas that I wanted rounded or scooped and sent the pics to the guys.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j10.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/j9.jpg)
X2 - I agree
Thanks for the input Gang!
That's one of the reasons why I like working with South so much, he's always willing to try and accommodate for different preferences.
For those that like the Coyote, it will still be in the Stalker Stickbows line up.
Appreciate all the comments!!! :thumbsup:
I had mentioned rounding or scooping the edges. Randy also suggested "scooping" the edges...
Here are Randy's pics.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/r1.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/r2.jpg)
That's similar to what I was trying to describe last night.
Jason,
Yeah, I think we're on the same page now. :thumbsup:
This is awesome! I held off on ordering a Coyote Longbow after seeing that initial picture of the Jackal that was posted on Facebook. I like the contours of the one with the belly overlays. The belly area of the grip is looking good on that one, and the shelf looks arrow friendly. Not a fan of the belly overlays as they seem unnecessary and kind of distracting. Did South send over the limbs also? I would love to shoot this thing.
Aaron,
It should be at my house by tomorrow or Tuesday. Yes, it'll have limbs too. I'm, only going to have it for a night or two. Want me to call you when it comes in?
BTW tell Chris to give me a buzz, I think he had a few questions about the Stalkers.
Ryan
Right on Ryan. You gonna take it to Lance's? Let me know, I'm down. I'll see Chris tomorrow at work. I brought the catalog to work last week and by lunch Chris was asking me questions. Can't wait to see what he's going to order.
Not sure if I'll go down to the shop, just depends on when the box arrives. You're more than welcomed to come over though. I'll text you as soon as the box hits my door!
:shaka:
Will the Jackal have the option to have the medium grip?? I may be ordering one soon.
Watching this one with a lot of interest!!! :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirtybird:
Will the Jackal have the option to have the medium grip?? I may be ordering one soon.
South should be able to work with you on the grip style.
Randy, I'm in the dilemma of longbow limbs or the static ones.
David, just get both. LOL! :D
If Cox is willing to do a combo longbow/static pass-around for "expert :p " opinions, I'm in!! In fact, got a hog hunt in SC scheduled in two weeks if it can happen :goldtooth: !!
Heck, I'll even give it a try with just the longbow limbs ;) !!
Good looking bow!
That's a good point Ryan. Ha
Does anyone know if South is heading to Kalamazoo expo this year?
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirtybird:
Will the Jackal have the option to have the medium grip?? I may be ordering one soon.
yeah dave, you do need another bow! lmbo, you don't have enough right! haha. if you buy another one, you need to sell me another one!!!
Ryan, give me a call. Sorry I don't get text messages. I guess you could say my phone is trad, haha!
I also agree that I like the coyote better, but that is a dang nice bow fellas!
David,
South said he'll be there.
Aaron,
Trad Phone.... :campfire:
:thumbsup:
It's an addiction. Lol
QuoteOriginally posted by Dirtybird:
Randy, I'm in the dilemma of longbow limbs or the static ones.
Doesn't hurt to have a full set.
Hey guys, loving all of the feedback! I can't wait to get the handles back with all of the sharpie marks on them. Obviously, we're still in the R&D stage, though I hope to have things finalized before Xmas. The shape of the handle on the Jackal is what I had in mind when I started shaping a blank that ended up being the current Coyote profile. It has been a popular "accident", but my intention was to build a handle that was closer to a traditional longbow handle. In look, it does look similar to a low wrist Coyote, but when you get your hands on it, it definitely has a different feel. I'll have several at Kzoo in January and I should have time right after Thanksgiving to build a pass around bow. Keep the feedback coming, you guys are coming up with some great suggestions.
Awesome, I would be in for a pass around bow.
Sign me up for the pass around as well.
Don't forget...ladies first!! :goldtooth:
South, any chance you'd fair in the limbs to the riser. That has always been one of my favorite things about my Grizzly. Might also help with keeping that look of a longbow.
Ha! I better find a way to get home from work first!!! :nono:
Aaron, I like that look too, but if he does that, then the limbs won't be as easily interchangeable as they are with the Coyote.
Maybe you should bug South to make longbow limbs for the Wolverine. ;)
South- James here... I really want in on the pass around!!! That coyote you sold me is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Word is that South will have a Jackal for "test driving" at the Hog Wild event at Wild Things the first of December!
Great job, Cox :thumbsup: !
Staci just called. A brown box is at the front door of our house!
This is pretty cool, I should get my new Coyote LB next week from South. I'm a longbow guy so I wouldn't mind being on the pass around list :goldtooth: other wise I will just have to wait until Kzoo.
Saw this image on FB I like how the Jackal is looking (http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy182/jsparky93/Jackal.jpg) (http://s790.photobucket.com/user/jsparky93/media/Jackal.jpg.html)
Ryan was nice enough to let me test drive the two Jackal risers this afternoon. As I am a complete newb to stickbows I will leave the technical review to Ryan. Having said that I really like how the Jackal is looking more like a longbow riser, and my initial concerns about the belly overlays being distracting were dismissed once I started shooting it. If you're looking for a takedown longbow you definitely need to give the Jackal a test drive. I'll be keeping my eye on this one. Thanks again Ryan!
On a side note the 54" Coyote limbs were also SAWEEEET! Decisions, decisions...
So this is what showed up today. Two risers and one set of limbs.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day1.JPG)
Like Aaron mentioned, he stopped by the house today.
Getting a "feel" for the handle...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day2.JPG)
Aaron wanted to compare the Coyote and the Jackal risers.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day3.JPG)
Protoype 54" static limbs with the Coyote or prototype Jackal riser.... decisions, decisions, decisions.... :confused:
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day4.JPG)
Aaron had a chance to shoot both Jackal risers...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day6.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day7.JPG)
So far, the second Jackal riser is my favorite...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day1.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/day8.JPG)
more to come...
Ryan-What is the main difference between the two risers? Looks like the two tone riser maybe is a little lower grip?
Look forward to more reports. :archer2:
QuoteOriginally posted by jsparky93:
Saw this image on FB I like how the Jackal is looking (http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy182/jsparky93/Jackal.jpg) (http://s790.photobucket.com/user/jsparky93/media/Jackal.jpg.html)
So in this pic which one is the coyote?
Hermon, yes you're correct, the brown riser had a little more in the throat and it has a small swell below the throat as compared to the two tone riser. The two tone riser is lower in wrist and the area below the throat is "rounded".
Tony the current Coyote model is the one in front.
That is a nice looking riser I can't wait to try one out.
The Jackal risers. One with longbow limbs, the other with statics...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day2.jpg)
Staci, trying out the Jackal riser with her static limbs...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day3.jpg)
Here's the side by side comparisons of the two prototype Jackal risers.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day4.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day5.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day6.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day7.jpg)
Side by side comparisons of the Jackal and the Coyote risers.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day8.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day9.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day10.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/2day11.jpg)
You can really see the differences in the side by side photos. What are your thoughts so far Ryan, like's dislikes?
Jason, because the Jackal is built with the same riser/limb deflection, "performance wise" everything's the same.
In terms of feel and aesthetics, I prefer the all brown riser due to the way South shaped the grip. It fit my hand a shooting style a little better. As for all the aesthetics, I'm still set on the changes we discussed earlier.
Aloha!
Ryan K. Sanpei
Just saw a picture of the Jackal on Facebook with static recurve limbs. I've been thinking of ordering a longbow, but I'm liking the way the Jackal looks as a recurve. My inherently indecisive nature is truly being tested!
The jackal is so slick!
I really like that signature flare at the grip base of the Coyote (and my Dingo). The craftsmanship and attention to detail is sure to be first rate like everything that comes from under South's hand but the Jackal looks like a nootered Coyote to me.
I hope I'm not out of line for saying that because I mean it with all respect. Just my honest opinion FWIW. (Free)... :archer2:
Thanks for the additional input Gang!
The bow is on it's way to Mr. Burtis' house, minus one riser... :dunno:
The Jackal.......I like what I see!! :thumbsup:
At what time might the Jackal be put into the line up?
So I spent some time with this bow this week. I can say for sure that it is a great design. Sheds a lot of weight from the wolverine and the coyote. It will go through some evolution yet I am sure. I believe for those that want the slim lines not found on the coyote you will love this option.
As Ryan said before the coyote is not leaving the line up and will still serve those who prefer it. This is just another option. It will appeal the longbow guys as well as those who like the slim lined recurves like I do.
Paul_R
"Jackal looks like a nootered Coyote to me. " :biglaugh:
I got the Jackal on Friday and since the last day of the extended archery was Saturday, I thought I'd take it out. I put my static recurve limbs on. Needless to say the transition for the coyote to the jackal was smooth.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h160/steadman_2006/Jackalprotopics019_zpsdfa60a96.jpg) (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/steadman_2006/media/Jackalprotopics019_zpsdfa60a96.jpg.html)
Unfortunatley due to no weather, read NO snow, and daytime highs near fifty the deer movement was slow. Throw in the fact there were a lot of other hunters that blew two potential opportunities, there was no blood drawn. But it was a great day on the mountain, and stump shooting with it was a pleasure.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h160/steadman_2006/Jackalprotopics025_zps0908d167.jpg) (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/steadman_2006/media/Jackalprotopics025_zps0908d167.jpg.html)
As most of you know I'm a pretty die hard longbow guy. But this is a riser I was begging South to build, and with a few little tweeks I think he nailed it! I'll have this riser for when I want to shoot a recurve that I can hold like a longbow :)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h160/steadman_2006/Jackalprotopics027_zps8d2550dc.jpg) (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/steadman_2006/media/Jackalprotopics027_zps8d2550dc.jpg.html)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h160/steadman_2006/Jackalprotopics021_zps4e2bd5ac.jpg) (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/steadman_2006/media/Jackalprotopics021_zps4e2bd5ac.jpg.html)
Very cool looking!Like the looks and profile of the solid wood one better than the laminate handle.
Here's a look at the third prototype, "Boone"...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/b1.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/b2.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/b3.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ryan/b4.JPG)
This one is going to be tested by a few TG members...
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=133815;p=1
I'm liking the looks of the brown risers grip. Am I seeing the area where the base of the thumb, or the meaty part of the thumb, rests is kind of flat? If so, that is what I would prefer as a contact point. There also seems to be a bit of a bulbous profile. Nice lines.
It looks that way. Hopefully South will chime in, not sure how similar this third design is compared to the first two that I saw. I know it's going to be awhile, but when you get the bow, please be sure to provide us your personal input. Definitely want to hear your thoughts!
Ryan that is the one i like it... very smooth lines South has another winner Thanks Shane
Aloha Shane!
Great to hear from you mate!!!
How are things going???
Take care!
Ryan
Snag, it's been a while since I had my hands on the handles myself. I'll have to look it over again when they come back in later this week. I'll get back with you then. I was hoping to have them in my hands when I made Boone, but had to go off of my fading memory and pics that Ryan and I had taken to put this latest handle together.
I'm working on the jigs for a FXT model of the Jackal. I'd like to hear more of your guys feedback on the belly overlays, if you guys like them or think that it makes the handles too "busy" or overdone. I don't want to add stuff just because I can. There is a line between enhancing and detracting. I know that line is different for each person, but I want to make sure that I'm not crossing if for the majority of people.
I will be adding a mosaic accent stripe this year as an option for people who are looking for a little more eye. It'll be available on all bow models.
My son and I had the opportunity to shoot the bow at Ryan's and really like the feel of it. It seats very nicely in the hand and doesn't shift at all on the pull. I'm an open hand shooter and the bow felt great. I own a Coyote and unfortunately didn't have it with me to make a side by side comparison, but it is a very nice shooter. Smooth, fast, stable, no stacking, and REALLY quiet.
Snag the thumb cut out is evident but not really flat. I think you will find it does allow for consistent and easy location though.
South maybe the belly overlays could be offered as only an option. Similar to the mosaic stripe.
I agree with Randy, I'd make the overlays optional. The riaer is on its way back. Somehow I lost the grey one :dunno:
Now both the brown one and the grey one are lost. Oh my. Good thing South knows how the make them.
Early Christmas present, huh guys??? haha Thanks for the description of the handle area Randy. A constant location of the bow hand is big on my list of attributes of a bow.
As for the belly overlays I am of in the "overdone" category. Really just a personal preference I guess. But I like the wood in the riser to blend with the wood on the limbs.
FXT Jackal?!! Gonna be sweet! :clapper: Didn't think there would be enough wood for a FXT. Gotta get on milling up my Milo log that we pulled from my aunty's years ago.
Not a fan of the belly overlays. Definitely over the top especially if done on a FXT model. Seems like the whole essence of the Jackal is simplicity. What really impresses me about South's work is how he carves and shapes each riser. So many purposefully carved out contours and facets that become even more impressive when held in person. The belly overlays seem half heartedly slapped on and unimpressive (no offense). I would love to see more contour lines and facets like on the Wolverine and Coyote models. When I order one I'm not going for the overlays, but to each his own I guess.
QuoteOriginally posted by snag:
As for the belly overlays I am of in the "overdone" category. Really just a personal preference I guess. But I like the wood in the riser to blend with the wood on the limbs.
My opinion too.
No belly overlay for me as well ! IMO, Stalkers are "Sexy" enough with there beautiful curves and don't need the added "make up" ! :thumbsup:
Just saw this on Facebook. Jackal FXT looking good!
(https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p128x128/1507114_508685622579779_1247100170_n.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by GrisMunkyNinja:
Just saw this on Facebook. Jackal FXT looking good!
(https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p128x128/1507114_508685622579779_1247100170_n.jpg)
That is frigging AWESOME looking!
And I think I am with everybody else on the belly overlays! Leave them off, but available as an option.
Bisch