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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Cromm on November 01, 2013, 03:22:00 PM

Title: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 01, 2013, 03:22:00 PM
Hi,
I have a brand new lil creep GN bow and when I shoot it, it makes a loud banging. The bow is 58in long and 47lb at 28in. I have tried 50-55lb, 55-60lb, 60-65lb 65-70lb and 75lb wooden arrows in it. The only time it stops and this is off and on is if I use the 70lb arrows. I've put string silencers on it and it is still banging. There is a nocking point on the string which seems to be in the right place so what is going on with the bow?...
Thanks for your help in this matter
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: njloco on November 01, 2013, 03:24:00 PM
Did  you  paper  tune  yet ?
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 01, 2013, 03:46:00 PM
Hi,
No I haven't but I have never paper tuned before.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: ChuckC on November 01, 2013, 03:47:00 PM
More info please ?

Start with brace height and nock point height.  Also, your draw length.  Are you shooting split finger or three under ?

ChuckC
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: hedgerowhuntr on November 01, 2013, 03:50:00 PM
Along with what Chuck asked, did you check the tiller of the bow?
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: chrisAKnative on November 01, 2013, 05:36:00 PM
sounds like your arrows hitting and yes check brace height.
besides the noise how does that LIL CREEP shoot!?
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: paradocs on November 01, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
Mine are braced at 6 7/8".  How long are your arrows and what weight point?  Both of mine are quieter than the Bushbows I had, which I didn't think was possible.  I'm guessing too stiff.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Jedimaster on November 01, 2013, 07:51:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by paradocs:
I'm guessing too stiff.
X2  

Of course brace & nock point have to be tuned as well but I'd definitely drop down in spine.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: D.Ellis on November 01, 2013, 11:25:00 PM
Mine is nice and quiet too.........a bit louder than my Hill, but still a quiet bow. A quick, quiet bow.
Hope you get it figgured out.
Darcy
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 02, 2013, 07:47:00 AM
Hi,
The brace height is 6 1/2in, nocking point is 20 mm up, my draw is 28in, my arrows are 28 1/2 in long, wood, bamboo and allys with 100gr or 125gr heads, I shoot split finger. The brace height was 7in so lowered that and tried again but still bang and it gets worse with lighter poundage arrows. I've put fur string silencers on still banging. I am lost?? The bow has the jack knife handle.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Mudd on November 02, 2013, 08:22:00 AM
Cromm can you do a video of it being shot and post it?

You know the old saying.. "a picture is worth a thousand words".

I think it would help folks help you if you could make that happen.

My 2 cents worth.

God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 02, 2013, 08:26:00 AM
Hi Mudd,
Will try that today.
Keep safe.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Wiley Coyote on November 02, 2013, 08:47:00 AM
Not saying this is the problem, but a poor release will make a racket also.   :confused:    :banghead:    The video idea is good!!
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 02, 2013, 09:01:00 AM
Did think the same thing. Doesn't happen on any other bows I own, had an  archer friend also shoot the bow same bang.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: paradocs on November 02, 2013, 09:17:00 AM
Nockset sounds awful high to me; almost an inch?  I'm shooting 30-50 carbons cut to 27.5" with 300 gr up front...still slightly stiff if I shortdraw a bit...50#@27"
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: mahantango on November 02, 2013, 09:21:00 AM
I'd say all are too stiff. I shoot 35-55 spine cut to 30" with 175-200gr. points out of 55# bows.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Ghost Dog on November 02, 2013, 12:48:00 PM
I have a Lil Creep and mine is very quiet compared to many bows, but not as quiet as some others. I think it depends om what you are accustomed to hearing on release. I did put some wool silencers on it fairly close to the ends of the string and it is almost silent now. You may want to consider a different string material as well.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: hawk22 on November 02, 2013, 01:05:00 PM
My lil creep is set up with an 18strand TSplus flemish string, wool silencers, and the brace height is set at 7".  It's 53#'s@28 and I'm shooting a 500 grain arrow.  It's not as quiet as my critter gitter but its pretty close.  I think you should twist up your brace height to at least 6 3/4"
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 02, 2013, 06:20:00 PM
Thanks for  all the help. When you say close to the end of the bow how close is that? I've tried 40lb arrows and everything up to 75lb still not right.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Mr.Magoo on November 02, 2013, 07:28:00 PM
I have a rack full of all kinds of bows and every one has done best with the string silencers placed and the thirds (1/3) and quarters (1/4) of the bowstring.  Take the string measurements where the string touches the limbs (if at all). Let's pretend it's actually 58".  The thirds would be 58/3 or 19.33 and 58/4 or 14.5.

Once you have silencers installed.  Just pluck the string a couple of inches and see if you can still hear any unusual noise like a buzz or "ting".  All you want to hear is a muffled 'thump'.

Then I'd tune from scratch.  Just as an aside, tight nocks can cause string noise and also cause the shaft to kick in to the riser at release.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: ChuckC on November 02, 2013, 07:57:00 PM
Steven,  There are a ton of folks on this site more experienced than I, but I have been doing this a while myself.

I myself would consider a few things before anything else.  On a longbow, string and limb vibration sound like just that.  An arrow striking the handle or rest area sounds different and more violent.  

Can you guess which it is ?

The bowyers website recommends 6.75" brace height for that bow.  I wouldn't normally go less.

For a normal 28" draw, and split finger release, I would place my nock point starting at about 1/2" above level and nock beneath it.  For a very long draw you may need to raise it up higher, even maybe getting closer to an inch, but I am just gonna guess that your bow / your draw doesn't require that high a nock point.

If the brace and the nock points are good, and I would check to be absolutely certain these are as you say, then we start getting into the arrow spine.  Trial and error will tell, unfortunately some bows need way heavier arrow spine (I believe Black Widows are notorious for this) and some are not near so picky.  I would take a wild guess and think the lighter spined arrows you mentioned should work best for that bow, maybe even a tad lighter yet, so heavier heads on those shafts might make them work.  You say that they are woodies.  Are they 11/32" diameter ?  That makes a difference as compared to some of the carbons.

Is your bow / rest material showing any sign of contact ?  Maybe place some fresh clean masking or paper tape on the rearward surfaces of the strike plate / rest area, then take one of your arrows and rub some stuff on it.. (shoe polish paste comes to mind), on the rear end of the arrow only, like, the last 6 inches, and see if it leaves a mark anywhere (for reference) after the shot.

If it does, where the mark is might help you guess better what is happening.

Lastly,  you say your other bows don't exhibit this.  What are their lengths ?  Is this little guy the shortest bow you have ?  Maybe the shorter bow is causing a smaller string angle, causing a bit of finger pinch, and a less clean release, that you don't get on the other bows.

So many things it can be, so you need to change one thing at a time and see what it does.

When you do, tell us what it was please.

ChuckC
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Brianlocal3 on November 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM
Very thought out and concise response chuck. I'm with you.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 03, 2013, 10:07:00 AM
Thanks to all so far for the help. Will keep you posted on what is happening.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 03, 2013, 06:03:00 PM
Ok so I've put fur string silencers on the bow, moved the brace height to 6 3/4 and moved the nocking point to half a inch above square. It still makes a bang but not the BANG from before. So thank you. It has a hair strike pad on the bow which seems to be very hard, my other two GN have soft leather with some give to them. Do you think if I change the strike pad it would help? 65-75lb arrows still seem to be the best arrows to use with it.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: LongStick64 on November 03, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
What string material are you using. I had a bow that if you used anything but a low stretch string the bow would be loud.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: ChuckC on November 03, 2013, 08:26:00 PM
Steven, do you know what your arrows weigh ?  Physical weight of the arrow with point ?

ChuckC
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Fletcher on November 03, 2013, 09:32:00 PM
Based on my GN Critter Gitter, I believe your arrows are too stiff.  Try some heavy points, 160 or 190 grains, on your 50-55's and I'll bet you will stop the arrow slap.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 04, 2013, 03:35:00 AM
Hi,
The string is what was sent with the bow from GN so BCY Dynaflight 97 ?
The wooden arrows are 535grn some a little more some a little less, none under 500grn.
When I shoot lower poundage arrows the banging gets louder.
Thanks for your time
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: ChuckC on November 04, 2013, 08:35:00 AM
Steven, I guess the next logical chore is to dig up a few even heavier shafts, or,  try some carbons, just to see what happens.  They are a bit stiffer and they are normally skinnier, which changes things.  All these things give you answers and may help you understand that bow a bit better.

Keep going.  Its a good bow.

ChuckC
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: joe skipp on November 04, 2013, 10:04:00 AM
Have you considered calling Jerry and talking to him directly. He's a great guy and I'm sure will take the time to answer all your questions and offer advice.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Carcajou on November 04, 2013, 12:01:00 PM
Softer string material on a Great Northern always helps..There are better alternatives now to some of the "FF type" strings..softer, such as 450 plus, Dyneema, or skinny strings from some of our sponsors here..best of luck.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 04, 2013, 01:48:00 PM
Hi,
I will try some carbon arrows and see what happens.
Any idea of the email address for Jerry or GN as I cannot seem to find it on the website?  
Thanks again for all your help.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 04, 2013, 03:20:00 PM
Can anyone give a name or two of sponsors who may be able to do me a new string. I think my GN fireball has a skinny string but no idea what it is and my GN critter gitter sp has a D 95, maybe??
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cootling on November 04, 2013, 09:32:00 PM
I suspect the bow is fine. Sounds like your arrows are smacking into the bow.

Like others, I suspect your arrrows are too stiff.  For comparison, I shoot about 55 pounds and I use 29" ICS 500 carbon shafts with 100 grain inserts.  My arrows fly like they've been shot down a pipe.

Nocks too tight?  Dacron string?   Also try turning your nocks for better clearance.

Could also be your release.  Try getting a good deep hook on the string.  Don't hold the string out on your fingertips, but deep in the first joint.  Seems counterintuitive, but you'll get a better release.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 05, 2013, 03:40:00 AM
Thank you all for the advice.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 05, 2013, 05:37:00 PM
Ok so I have made sure the nocks are loose, have tried arrows which are 500gr plus in weight and are from 40lb to 75lb. Carbon and allys are no good as they are loud coming out the bow. 45lb to 60lb are ok but it still seems to like the 65lb to 75lb most. It makes a bang but not as loud as all the other arrows.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on November 05, 2013, 05:40:00 PM
I am putting a wooden frame together to try and paper tune and will let you know how that turns out also. Thanks again for your time and help.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: hart2hart on November 05, 2013, 08:00:00 PM
What are you actually drawing though?I didn't see
except arrow length.I ask because if I short draw(and not on purpose)certain arrows really clang against riser.Drawing fully cures it.
A really short draw will sound quiet also but you'll know from arrow drop.
Hart2hart
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Cromm on August 08, 2014, 01:14:00 PM
Well, I changed the brace height to what it says on the website,  then put wool string silencers on, using 62lb arrows which are 500 gr. The bow is now whisper quite.
Title: Re: lil creep is loud.
Post by: Carcajou on August 08, 2014, 08:35:00 PM
Cool   :clapper: