Deer that are hit too far back can be a nightmare to recover! I agree but also disagree, as long as you follow these "mandatory rules" every single time.
There are articles written every day on deer recovery and the dos and do nots. I want to talk about one area of the deers body that has kept us all up at night one time or another. The stomach shot deer. Please, trust me on this and I promise your recovery rate will improve immensely.
Anytime we hit or even think we hit too far back the first thing we need to do is chill out. Getting mad at ourselves accomplishes nothing at this point. We need to sit down and quietly replay the shot over in our mind asking these important questions:
1. Where do we think the arrow went in and went out?
2. What sound did the hit make?
3. How did the deer react?
4. Where was the last place you saw or heard the deer?
5. SIT Still! Do not make a sound!
Don't always trust your eyes. More often than not our point of impact and exit are not where we think. Using a white wrap and feathers really does help. Often times we expect our arrow to hit where we were aiming (almost willing it there in our mind) unfortunately this is not always the case.
What the hit sounded like is huge! Deer hit back sound hollow or like you shot a pumpkin. Anytime you hear this sound, assume you shot too far back! Every time!!!
Deer that are hit back most often hunch on the shot and run off a short distance and stop to look back. When they stop they usually hunch again. Some immediately lie down. Lung shot deer don't lie down! They panic and fight the feeling of passing out. Don't think that since your deer laid down it died!!!
Remembering the exact spot you saw your deer is an enormous help in the recovery process. Gut shot deer don't travel far.....if you do your part.
So what is our part. If it's an evening hunt you must sit still until it's dark. Dark enough that if the deer is still watching their back trail they don't see you. If you know for sure you hit back slip down quietly and get out of there. Don't even look for your arrow. If the deer went north, you exit south. Keep your flashlight beam small and on the ground, don't break any sticks. If it's a morning hunt you need to stay put.
How long to wait? I've found 4 hours to be perfect. After four hours you can usually find your deer very close to where you left them. If they are still alive, most often they can't get up. If they moved off, they usually will be found within 50 yards.
The worse thing you can do is pursue the deer after the shot. Any sound or any hint the deer has that something them following it will end poorly. The key is patience. You made a bad shot, don't follow up the shot with bad decisions!
Great information here....patience....patience....patience
Good stuff. I have only done it once, but the deer didn't go more than 50 yd. and was there the next day. You have to stay away from them and give them plenty of time. I have tried to help find deer that were hit back and jumped too soon by the hunter. Never found any of them. They were long gone off the property with no trail to follow.
Tim, excellent advice. A stomach hit deer is a dead deer. It will lay down shortly after being hit. It will have hardly any blood trail. You need to sneak out and go back at least 8 hours or later to look for the deer. If you start tracking shortly after the shot you are not going to find it. I know it is hard to wait sometimes!
Sound advice Tim :thumbsup:
Well written! Short and to the point, my kind of advice.
Tim, I agree with most of what you said - I prefer to wait a little longer, though - 8 hours is better, but weather and coyote population needs to be taken into account.
The one part I disagree with is this:
"If it's an evening hunt you must sit still until it's dark. Dark enough that if the deer is still watching their back trail they don't see you."
Deer CAN see in the dark. They often won't react the same in the dark, they seem to feel safer - we've come up on bedded deer in the dark when tracking with the dog several times and they don't react nearly as skittish as in the daylight - but they CAN see. This may be a minor point, but we run into guys all the time that think that because they can't see in the dark that deer can't either - and make mistakes because of it.
On lots of tracks for stomach or gut shot deer (both with the dog and without, both on our own deer and lots of tracks for others) we've NEVER lost a paunch shot deer that was treated as you stated - allowed to lay at least several hours before following up and not pressured.
When the hunter decides they need to "check things out" - even if that is just looking for first blood 20 yards from the shot site - the chances for recovery are cut in half. ALL THE TIME we find beds 100-150 yards from the shot site where the deer got up and sneaked out ahead of hunters that track too soon. If we recover these deer it is typically 600-800 yards further away. If the hunter would have waited the deer would be in the area of the first wound beds in the morning.
R
Yup. we taught that way in classes, if you don't SEE it go down or HEAR it go down, be still and quiet. A deer hit too far back generally has a pass through or no huge trauma (bone contact) and will normally run away for 20-80 yards and stop in an available cover, turn and watch for something to follow.
If nothing follows, the deer likely will bed right there. If you quietly leave your stand, after sitting for a time (do not follow), and leave the area, that very well may be where you will find the critter later.
Immediately after it runs, watch it, get sight landmarks, but also take a compass reading from your tree, not just E, W, but degrees. That can come in very handy later, especially if you come back out after dark.
Give the animal plenty of time to expire, then come back out and find it.
Lots of strategies are out there for the best way to trail such a shot. Another discussion
ChuckC
Good info little buddy!!
Thanks Ryan, I love to hear from others who track a lot of deer. Fortunately I live in an area that offers unlimited doe tags and it seems like a couple times each week I'm following up on someone's shot deer. I've found you can learn something from each one. Tracking dogs are not legal in PA, hopefully that will change in time.
I'm glad you mention the time frame, "Fishone" also feels comfortable with the 8 hour waiting time. I agree 100%, waiting longer is always better than not long enough. In our area we have lots of foxes and a few coyotes. Coming back the next morning will result in half eaten deer 50% of the time. Jon aka snakebit40 sent me a photo of a doe he shot last week that was ripped into pretty bad by a coyote 20 minutes after the shot. That's rare but it happens.
With that said, after 4 hours I will sneak in quietly. If I see eyes we back out and come back later. I usually trail by myself or with one person. 3 or more is a crowd and I like to be as quiet as possible.
A great topic of discussion and I welcome everyone's thoughts! :thumbsup:
This is great info. Unfortunately a poor shot will happen at some point in the lifetime of all bow hunters. I'm going to bookmark this thread.
Good Advice, Tim!!! THANK YOU!!!!!
Usualy in practice, and especialy this year, I have had a problem hitting "high" and sometimes wide!!! :(
This year I have been making a serious effort to pick my "spot" right behind the elbow. Hopefully, odds are... If I hit high, I'm safe, Low is a clean miss... The 3pt I shot yesterday was right through the left front leg,through the chest sliceing the heart,and cutting the right leg on the way out. Right on the money!!! I couldn't have asked for a better shot.
However..... At first, I was sure I had missed!!! The shot looked low, under his chest & behind his front leg. Or, was it in front of his leg???
The eye is decieving... and our memory "recall" isn't always "clear".....
Thanks Again, Tim!!!!!
Digital cameras give us another option for locating the line the animal left on...memory can play tricks on us that pictures help us sort out
DDave
Great advice!
Bisch
That part about thinking you hit where you didn't, happened to me late December, 1994 in Missouri.
I shot a deer of the year on a very cold, snow covered, PM hunt about 200 yards behind my house. I could have swore I hit that deer in the lung area. I waited my normal 30 minutes, got down, found arrow, blood, and followed the trail.
I found the deer in short order, less than 100 yards. The deer was shot through and through the hind quarters! I looked around and thought "who shot this deer?" I wondered where "my" deer was. Well, I was the only one hunting this private spot and this was the deer I shot. I realize t his could have turned out MUCH worse!
I know what happened to that shot and that was the last deer I ever shot at right-handed. Been a lefty ever since.
Thank goodness this is the only deer I've hit that far back in four+ decades of bow hunting but a shocker too me.
Excellent advice Tim.
I hit a Big Bull a little low and back this Fall in New Mexico. Looked like just behind the last rib but angled forward. Arrow went in to the feathers. I left the Bull go 4 hours but they were calling for afternoon showers so I went back in just after noon. Found blood for about 100 yards then found the complete arrow. It had gone all the way through. Blood then lost ??? Bull had just walked away after the hit. Head down. He had been fighting with another bull and I had just walked up on them. 25 yards broadside. Just blew the shot. Back to tracking, it did rain in the afternoon and it appeared the bull joined back up with his cows . All sign lost. Spent next 2 days checking every drainage with a mile of the spot I hit him. NOTHING ?? Buddies went back in looking for birds 2 weeks later but found nothing. VERY SAD HUNTER.
Randy Chamberlin
Great info here, thanks for posting guys!
I have learned the hard way through the years, that "when in doubt, back out" is the rule that must be followed. I also will reintegrate what has
already been said; just back out, do not look for your arrow or anything, just back out and wait.
Great tip Tim, thanks for taking the time to post it.
Obviously, being in the guide business we do a lot of tracking of wounded deer, bear and hogs. I think this information is right on but
I do agree with the 8 hour rule when it is possible. Where legal, every single hunter should have the names and phone numbers of 2-3 tracking dog owners. Here is a website that has registered and certified blood dogs listed by state. These dogs will often find wounded deer that travel over one half mile without any visible sign. These certified dogs are tested on blood trails over 24 hours old so don't worry about waiting the required 8 hours.
If your state does not have this resource, get a dog- any dog and they are often much better than not having one at all.
http://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/find-a-tracker/
The use of a dog, howerever, does not remove the 8 hour rule discussed here.
I am a huge advocate of string trackers. On gut shot deer they will often tell you what the deer is doing well after it has left your view. When you leave the tree, leave the string tracker on the ground with a small loop. This will tell you if the deer has moved since you left. When tracking, watch the line as you sneak in. If it moves, back out immediately.
Thanks for posting this information Tim. In the excitement of the moment, many new hunters will "take that little peek" along the blood trail thereby significantly hurting a chance at recovery of a paunch shot deer.
Good stuff, thanks.
Jerry
By the way Tim. That was the most compelling advice about dealing with gut-shot deer I've ever read.
Following this advice will save so many heartaches for those who follow it. It is VERY DIFFICULT to wait that long but the alternative is far worse.
I've learned to wait a minimum of 6 hours. I also think the broadhead one uses might make a difference. Two bladed heads are great & I've killed numerous deer with them. However IMO you can't beat a Snuffer, Woodsman, etc. etc. They create larger entrance & exit holes and the extra blade cuts more tissue.
Thanks for posting this, you nailed it!
Excellent advice here! I also agree with the 8 hour wait though. Gut shot deer will die, but unfortunately it may very well take some time.
I went in on one after 6 hours once and jumped him from his first bed. It was late afternoon by that time, so I backed out and left overnight. The next morning we found no blood at all from the bed, but knew he had been heading out across a wide open grass/marshy area. We ended up getting lucky by making an educated guess and found him in the first bit of cover across the marsh a good 300 yards away.
Always err on the side of extreme caution when you aren't positive of your hit. Back out and give it as much time as you can. A gut shot deer can go a long way if pushed too early. If the deer ended up dying right away he will still be laying there when you get to it.
this is great advice, and the comments about your eye deceiving you are right on. i will share this: yesterday, i was practicing from my ladder stand on my 3-D Rinehart deer. on one shot, at about 18 yards and slightly quartering away, i was sure that i saw the arrow fly low, and ricochet off the "belly" of the target and into the ground below.
it wasn't until i got down and walked all the way to the target, that i realized the arrow had actually hit an inch below the heart, in the foam of the leg (a perfect heart shot if the deer even flinched, which they always do). the point is, even on a stationary target, the movement of the arrow and the picture in our mind can cause us to see something other than what occurred.
Great advice, one thing I would add, especially if you are hunting public land is to keep an eye out for other hunters.
Where i hunt on long Island it is crowded so i always stick around if we hit one to far back in the morning to make sure another hunter doesn't go into the woods where they deer is laying gutshot. Last thing you want is for someone else to jump up your deer. If at night i always wait to make sure everyone is out of the woods and i'll come back early morning to track.
We always wait at least 8 hours even if it is going to rain. Since there isn't much sign anyway i would rather walk grids for 200 yards than push the deer into a neighborhood where it will be lost since it is running and not leaving any blood sign.
Excellent advice! Thanks for taking the time to relate it.
If you do find your arrow, it is pretty easy to confirm if you hit it in the guts. There will be the smell and stomach/gut contents on the arrow and probably not much blood.
all great advise but a gut shot deer can last longer than 8 hours....there are so many parameters...and they can bed close or far...I had one bed about 300 yards away and did not expire for 19 hours post shot...and it was a complete pass through with a great blood trail and the arrow smelled of paunch ( why the blood I am not sure as quite often paunch shot deer plug up)....I have helped others find deer next day and one of mine and some are still alive...Also have had them expiring at 6 hours...but I would wait longer than 4 hours for sure on a paunch shot.
As said coyotes are a consideration and weather pattern.
tracking is an art and I learn each time I trail any deer....sometimes they do the unexpainable!!!!!!
I have also found stomach hit deer die faster than ones hit farther back in the intestines. Those i always wait until the next day. We have been able to do this on Long island since we didn't have coyotes, the first one was confirmed this year.
My stomping grounds here in Michigan will leave you with only a bag of bones if you wait eight hours on a wounded deer.
In the mid nineties, I had a Basset that I took out on a lost trail because I had no other options...it led to years of searching for wounded deer.
It was always easy to know if the arrow hit "right behind the shoulder"...because the deer was always close. It was also easy to tell if the hunter went down the trail after a poor hit, because the first bed or two was vacant.
Back then tracking dogs weren`t even legal. So whenever on a trail with lanterns and flashlights I always expected trouble that I hoped I could talk my way out of. Luckily it never happened.
Interesting topic. Most advice mirrors my own experiences. I will never try to trail a deer that is gut shot for at least 8 hours. Done this way we have always found them. Trailing too soon usually ends with a lost deer. Once you jump one from its bed the deer usually don't leave any sign and they can go a long way. They are very hard to find then
I shot a doe 2 weeks ago that I hit back. She was close and my bow limb hit the water bottle in my cargo pocket. First time for that. Anyway I saw the bit clearly and knew it was bad. It was 1/2 hour before dark. I left her and came back in the morning and found her shortly. Unfortunately the coyotes found her first, 25 years hunting this property and first one lost to coyotes
I agree with all that has been said and would like to add be diligent, be patient and stay alert. I helped track one last year that had been shot the previous evening. She didn't bed for at least 600 yards. When we found her she was covered in frost so we assumed she was dead. She jumped and ran about 80 yards allowing a stalk and follow up shot. The will to live and tenacious spirit they have can be astounding. Of the numerous paunch hit critters I have been a part of tracking all have been found in the last 12 years. Following these "rules" increases the recovery rate exponentially.
Chris
Tim, GOOD stuff here. I have to say in my early years and on other blood trails the #1 mistake is usually too early following up. I still know guys with A lot of years and experience that will still follow for 50 some yards under any hit. I feel this is a BIG mistake. BILL
And I'll add to Chris's comment.
"Following these "rules" increases the recovery rate exponentially."
AND....be willing to adapt to every different scenario, the deer play by their own rules of survival! :notworthy:
All points agreed with, if when tracking you cannot find a trail or do not have a tracking dog go to known water source a gut shot animal will run a fever and will quit often go to water.
Good discussion.
One thing we have learned "behind the dog" is that all the "rules" about what wounded deer will do - for example "travel downhill" "not jump fences" "go to water" etc etc don't apply very often. The rule we've found to hold true is that a wounded deer will go where he feels safe - if that is over a mountain or under the neighbor's back porch that is where he'll be. We've seen some really odd stuff tracking deer with the dog.
On the topic of a dog - if you have access to a person with a good blood tracking dog please do the following:
1. Call RIGHT AWAY when you have a doubtful shot. It makes things SO much easier on the dog to work an uncontaminated scent line (in other words without you and 5 buddies crawling around on it for 4 hours before you call).
2. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT bring another dog on ahead of time "just in case". We've had pet dog owners take the family lab in ahead of us a couple times (that you find out later :) ) - this isn't a good thing.
3. Listen to your dog owner - they usually have lots of experience on tracks and know thier dog - if they want you to wait - then wait.
As stated before time is not a big deal to a good working dog. Our Oskar was tested on the VsWP 40 hour German tracking test - that is 250 mL of deer blood laid out on a 1000 meter track aged for 40-48 hours. He completed the line with no faults in 37 minutes. My wife was handling him and saw no visible blood on the entire line.
R
great great advice.... i say 4 hours minimum and possibly more if the weather is cool enough and the coyotes arent howling.
Good post Tim.
Tom
Sorry double post. Silly phone.
Chris
QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
Good discussion.
One thing we have learned "behind the dog" is that all the "rules" about what wounded deer will do - for example "travel downhill" "not jump fences" "go to water" etc etc don't apply very often. The rule we've found to hold true is that a wounded deer will go where he feels safe - if that is over a mountain or under the neighbor's back porch that is where he'll be. We've seen some really odd stuff tracking deer with the dog.
On the topic of a dog - if you have access to a person with a good blood tracking dog please do the following:
1. Call RIGHT AWAY when you have a doubtful shot. It makes things SO much easier on the dog to work an uncontaminated scent line (in other words without you and 5 buddies crawling around on it for 4 hours before you call).
2. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT bring another dog on ahead of time "just in case". We've had pet dog owners take the family lab in ahead of us a couple times (that you find out later :) ) - this isn't a good thing.
3. Listen to your dog owner - they usually have lots of experience on tracks and know thier dog - if they want you to wait - then wait.
As stated before time is not a big deal to a good working dog. Our Oskar was tested on the VsWP 40 hour German tracking test - that is 250 mL of deer blood laid out on a 1000 meter track aged for 40-48 hours. He completed the line with no faults in 37 minutes. My wife was handling him and saw no visible blood on the entire line.
R
Whats the best way to start a dog tracking? I have a GSP and have often wondered if I could cut her loose on a blood trail and how she would do, or if it would be unwise without training. If this is off topic please delete.
Will peroxide or Bloodglow work with a gut shot deer? Thankfully, I haven't had the need to try it yet.
Great post Tim. Regardless of where you "thought" you hit them, you have to look and pay attention to what the arrow tells you. A paunch shot deer is a dead deer, and the longer you can wait the better. Other factors come into play, temperature and the coyote population are a few. Jacobsladder and myself tracked a deer at Kennym's that was hit in the far back of one lung and through the center of the liver. We gave it 5 hours and would have waited longer if the temperature wasn't in the mid eighties. He still went a 1/4 mile unpushed. I'm convinced if we would have taken up the trail any sooner we would have bumped him and never found him.
wish I had a friend with a tracking dog ! I keep pretty good records and just last week started thinking about the deer I've lost in 17 years that I really feel were dead and some I felt were "good" shots. You learn a lot the Hard way, learn some more by listening to guys on here and reading books. Great advice here .It's hard to kill a deer with a bow. We all do it successfully and if you hunt a lot you will have these difficult circumstances. Learn and pass it on. Tracking is such a wonderful skill, unfortunately the "classroom" is at times heart wrenching and why and how you learn to track is from less than ideal circumstances......but that is the way it is. I still love it .
A friend of mine hit a buck further back in the paunch area in the pm around 5:00 We let the deer go until the next morning called deer search. Walt Dixons dog took us three times to a river several hundred yards away with no blood anywhere. We had to believe the dog so we walked down river and boom there was the buck. without the dog maybe we would have found the deer after hours of looking, had we followed up tracking after the shot we never would have found the deer. Tim's advice is good let it lay down and follow up after 8 hrs or more.
Good info, ya'll!