Hey guys I'm running low on arrows and I'm thinking of making the switch to woods. Is there much of a performance difference in comparison to carbon?. Also is there much maintenance with them? Any input is appreciated.
I personally think that wood is not as "good" as carbon in terms of performance. . however. . that said I also think wood is fine, good, very good even. I use both and I use wood for hunting and play. I like wood, something nostalgic about shooting wood arrows. I have been using Surewood shafts of late and plan to continue with them. Excellent shafts.
As far as maintenance. . I put a coat of car wax on the shaft before hunting to keep the little bit of scratching noise (on the rest) down at the draw and maybe to help it slide through the deer.
Try them, you might like them !
ChuckC
Night and day difference in performance consistancy from one perspective, and the woodies do require some maintenance & TLC....
But...That is half the draw to going with wood is all the fun you have building them. Wood arrows do not recover from paradox as quickly as carbon does, and you definitely need to keep an eye on them for straightness.... But shooting wood arrows adds an element of traditional spirit and a feel all its own..... In many ways a wood arrow can be tuned to a bow easier than carbon shafts after you get the hang of it. You can get good hunting weight shafts out of Douglas Fir, and they are pretty tough arrows. I'd recommend Sherwood shafts 100%..... Cedar shafts are ok too, but they sure don't hold up as well as doug fir, and they don't stay as straight either.
I love woodies.... but i hunt with carbon because i want good consistency i don't have to fuss with while hunting. Kirk
The only reason to shoot wood is "love". If you are weighing pros and cons you will likely be happier shooting something else. There is no rational reason to shoot wood. :laughing: :laughing: :archer2:
IMO,w/ woods it's all about the quality. Example, I've recently purchased some old ACME shafts that are far better quality than any shafts I've recently purchased including the above mentioned. Which by the way are very good quality for today's standards. There is a gentleman in the sponsor classifieds that builds very good footed shafts and would recommend highly.
I shoot wood exclusively and the critters don't seem to mind; I love everything about wood shafts, and I don't see any real downside to shooting them. They fly straight, look good, and do the job they were designed to do. Nothing wrong with shooting carbon or aluminum, but wood has an appeal to me that the other arrows lack. Just my humble and completely unbiased opinion.
I have shot wood, carbon and aluminum. At traditional bow hunting distances I see little difference.
Wood is maybe less durable, but especially with some wood I don't have to go to great lengths to add weight to get the arrow right for my bow. I have finished weight arrows from 530 up to well over 600 grains.
I love woodies !
i shot wood for most of my traditional archery life and switched to carbon about 5 years ago...equally tuned I find carbon penetrate more because they don't bend as much on impact . so you loose less energy laterally as the arrow goes through the animal. I saw a video on this a long time ago and was sold. But I still hunt with wood arrows with selfbows and on some nostalgic hunts
Like others said...... nothing wrong with wood arrows they work great but IMHO carbons are better performers...
laminated birch is also a nice heavy wood shaft. I took a Mulle deer buck with a cedar shaft and a woody weight up front 2 years ago and the penetration was excellent. If you have wood arrows that nedd a little extra weight I like those woody weights.
Bjorn, you are correct.
You gotta want to shoot them and accept their imperfections...then your good to go. :D
Heck, my bow shots wood better than carbon.
There is absolutely nothing even remotely traditional about shooting carbon arrows, and that especially includes the ones that say "traditional" on them. It simply boggles my mind why anybody would quit shooting a compound bow to shoot a recurve or longbow and then shoot anything but a wood arrow out of it. Good gosh hundreds of thousands of critters have and still are harvested cleanly with a wood arrow. That said yup carbon and aluminum are better shafts than wood without question. But why would anyone label themselves "traditional" and then shoot a carbon arrow? No question they're better but ask yourself this, "why am I shooting a longbow or recurve in the first place?" It'd kinda be like putting a scope on a fine flintlock rifle. Just my opinion but I've been at this for over 50 years.
Yearcher as much as I agree with you not all of us here on Trad gang.. (well me anyway) Can't afford to keep purchasing wood arrows or if you're not buying them find the time to make them all the time.. I like to practice alot that includes Stumps, clumps of grass, etc, etc. Carbon just simply lasts longer and is much more durable.. I don't think it is the traditional way... but either way you're still shooting an arrow from a traditional bow and it's taken just as much practice to get there even if it's not wood. In the end it's all about fun!
Can't*
I love the look, smell, and feel of woodies. I have tried aluminum and carbon with success, but always find my way back to woodies....
Another vote for doug fir shafts from Surewood. Out of the two dozen shafts I purchased, years ago, only a few of them required slight straightening. Just seal them up with a good spar urethane and you're good to go.
they only used wooden arrows in the earlier days because it was all they had.
towards carbon-wood is inferior in every way!
but go ahead, shoot wood if you want. its obviously worked but you will find out as I have why other arrow material has been explored and why carbon has become so popular.
honestly when we look at performance as a hole. A woody vs a carbon vs a alumn on whitetails is really an irrelative conversation to begin with. Now factor in a less 'efficient' bow design and I have to ask how much difference in a well tuned setup are you going to see.
You can make adjustments on carbons you cant do on woods.
aluminums ping (annoying but cureable)
Ash wood arrows are ALMOST as tough as rebar. I think cane or bamboo is tougher what little I've tinkered with them but I don't care for the weight. I'm not a heavy weight arrow guy, but I don't like featherlights either.
I think some of the reason guys think carbon out penetrates wood is not only the stiffness, but also the small diameter and generally slick finish. I've taken a ash woodie and put it darn near clean through a Alaskan moose. A buddy put a carbon through a newfie moose....both moose are dead. Compare that to northen whitetail or black bear and I don't think you'll have any issues with penetration. again from a well tuned bow shooting a normal head.
I don't think woods are a hinderance either. A good woodie will group just as well or very close to woods or alums. It is a choice to make and being its natural materials you're going to need to take precautions. I check mine from time to time for straightness. it becomes habit.....read below as to why.
I think the biggest attribute to bent wood arrows isn't finish and moisture. Its mishandling removing from a target!!! Case in point, I've had a ash wood arrow (supposedly notorious for warping), standing verticle in a tube for the last 15 years. Shot a sheep with one from the group. didn't like the red caps so I bought more and went back to my yellow. Its still straight! In theory I've done everything wrong with this arrow and its stills straight...hmmm
Grab a woodie and squeeze once you'll see what I mean If you're not pulling it straight out you're bending the shaft. Woods will stay that way! carbons will not.
Now junk woods are a different story! Poor grain runout you'll bust arrows like toothpicks. They likely wont stay straight and it will be a headache. Its why many have gotten away from wood all together. Finding good wood has become harder but not impossible. If you are stuck on say rogue river or raven quality cedar from recent years, good luck. I'm sure it exists but its not the norm. There is a host of other woods out there that make great shafts and is not only easier to find but cheaper!
once you go wood you'll likely not go back for anything other than laziness.
Bjorn Said it all "Love". I have made wood arrows from POC to Wally World Ramin Dowels, and of course the Cheaper arent as straight, but with TLC and Patience they CAN be as Straight as the POC!! Being the Cost Consience Archer that I am, I will make a Decent Arrow out of just about any Dowel! Like I said, Bjorn said it All, "Love" and after making a few dozen of your very own, the Love for Wood will shut out the desire for anything else!
I tried carbons for a season, and went back to wood. Staying with it. I find them more forgiving, more quiet out of my bow, and just plain more pleasant to handle and work with.
Yes, they do require attention. At least, you need to learn how to straighten them; they'll need it once in a while. Yes, they're less durable than carbons if you're stumpin', though carbons get lost just as easily as wood.
For me, learning to make up arrows, taking the time to stain, seal, cut (with simple tools), taper, and fletch, then head out to the woods with them, deepens my connection with, and appreciation for, my archery as a whole. I didn't get that with carbons.
I guess I'd rather bust woodies (sometimes) than shoot carbons.
Not a judgement, just my personal feelings on the question.
Wood is good...... :thumbsup:
Wood can be just as effective as carbon. I think the main difference is the time required to build them. I've shoot woodies my whole life and I find that I always need to have a batch in the works because breaking them is inevitable. It's true that surewoods doug firs are about the best shaft available, and are unbelievably tough, but you will break them.
The other big difference is that woodies will not handle high foc well. That's not really a problem imo, just don't expect to put 300 grns up front. There's a reason so many heads are 125 to 160 grns....
I have been shooting wood for a year in Jan. so I'm no expert on wood for sure. There is something that feels very right when shooting a good flying woodie. I think they are a lot easier to tune then carbon. How many tuning questions are asked on this form every few weeks? Now, how many of them are shooting wood? What I like the most is how quiet they are. No seriously, I always thought my setups were quiet until I went to wood. Wood arrows SCREAMS traditional archery. Of course that's just my humble opinion.
You really just need to shoot some good wood arrows to answer the question for yourself. I make wood arrows for quite a few guys who have never shot wood arrows or got away from shooting wood quite a few years ago and have come back to them. They always say that they are surprised by the experience. They love the quietness of their bows and that the arrows fly so true.
I think somethings in life you just have to experience for yourself. Try them and then you'll know.
I keep hearing how carbon is tougher than wood & stands up better. I gave carbon a try & found if you are going to shoot at targets it's ok. When they get worn they will give you splinters pulling them out.
That's where it ends for me. I've shot them side by side stump shooting & 3D, if you center a stump with a corbon shaft my experience is it'll shove the insert back into the shaft splintering it. A wood arrow might shove the point back onto the shaft, but will rarely splinter or break. A glancing shot from either usually results in a damaged arrow.
After breaking some very expensive carbon arrows with the same hits that didn't damage my woodies, I quit carbon arrows. I now shoot only wood arrows & think they are best. They are best for me I know. ;)
Whats the difference in shooting carbon arrow shafts and shooting a bow with fiberglass on it? I have been at this 30 years started with wood and laminated longbow evolved to building selfbows and putting my own woodies and cane arrows together. Devolved to a black widow SA111 and aluminum and now shoot laminated longbow and carbons. The only difference for me is durability both in laminated bows and carbon shafts. Killed over 30 deer elk and a pig with each. I can assure you neither is anything like a scientific arrow launcher!
QuoteOriginally posted by yearcher:
There is absolutely nothing even remotely traditional about shooting carbon arrows, and that especially includes the ones that say "traditional" on them. It simply boggles my mind why anybody would quit shooting a compound bow to shoot a recurve or longbow and then shoot anything but a wood arrow out of it. Good gosh hundreds of thousands of critters have and still are harvested cleanly with a wood arrow. That said yup carbon and aluminum are better shafts than wood without question. But why would anyone label themselves "traditional" and then shoot a carbon arrow? No question they're better but ask yourself this, "why am I shooting a longbow or recurve in the first place?" It'd kinda be like putting a scope on a fine flintlock rifle. Just my opinion but I've been at this for over 50 years.
I understand exactly what you are saying here and personally agree with every word. The problem is where do you draw the line at traditional? For me, it is a wood longbow and wood arrows. A recurve can't be considered traditional and neither can carbon arrows. However, there are those out there that would take one look at my setup and scoff at me for calling it traditional. What kind of trad guy uses magnus broadhead? they might say. Glue on plastic nock? See what I mean? I really love to shoot wood arrows. I would never shoot anything else and that is my personal choice. Why we do what we do is all about our personal choice. So give both the carbons and woodies a try and decide for yourselves what feels right
I dont really care if someone puts a "traditional" label on me or not. I shoot a long bow because thats what feels best to me. I dont have to worry about all the gadgets of compounds and I think it is actually a better hunting tool for ME. Woods work well but carbon works better for ME so thats what I use right now anyway. Like said above, get some and try them its really the only way what works best for YOU.
:deadhorse: Who cares? Shoot what you want, and enjoy yourself. I'll keep shooting wood, but I won't feel superior to those who shoot carbon.
This is fun ain't it. Simple effective bow's longbow, selfbow, recurves. Arrows are just that arrows. Now pulleys fancy sights anything that can be set up and easy to shoot without practice is not traditional.
I am shooting laminated longbows and carbon shafts because I am lazy and need more time to practice and hunt.
Priorities fellas and keeping it simple.
I built some of my arrows from hand made dowels used cut self nocks etc. I also make some bows with a hatchet some with a bandsaw.
Now recurves ain't traditional but a laminated longbow is gimme a break....
Sinew backed recurves....
wood vs carbon
camo vs plaid
scent blocks vs none
recurve vs longbow vs selfbow
all personal choices lets not argue over what is traditional..there are degrees of traditional
choose yours and don's point fingers
enjoy hunting or shooting a traditional bow
cheers
QuoteOriginally posted by trubltrubl:
wood vs carbon
camo vs plaid
scent blocks vs none
recurve vs longbow vs selfbow
all personal choices lets not argue over what is traditional..there are degrees of traditional
choose yours and don's point fingers
enjoy hunting or shooting a traditional bow
cheers
Yuuup! :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by 4dogs:
I dont really care if someone puts a "traditional" label on me or not. I shoot a long bow because thats what feels best to me. I dont have to worry about all the gadgets of compounds and I think it is actually a better hunting tool for ME. Woods work well but carbon works better for ME so thats what I use right now anyway. Like said above, get some and try them its really the only way what works best for YOU.
X2! :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by yearcher:
There is absolutely nothing even remotely traditional about shooting carbon arrows, and that especially includes the ones that say "traditional" on them. It simply boggles my mind why anybody would quit shooting a compound bow to shoot a recurve or longbow and then shoot anything but a wood arrow out of it. Good gosh hundreds of thousands of critters have and still are harvested cleanly with a wood arrow. That said yup carbon and aluminum are better shafts than wood without question. But why would anyone label themselves "traditional" and then shoot a carbon arrow? No question they're better but ask yourself this, "why am I shooting a longbow or recurve in the first place?" It'd kinda be like putting a scope on a fine flintlock rifle. Just my opinion but I've been at this for over 50 years.
WOW, what a statement. Two posts since you joined in 2009 and one of those is to bash carbon arrows.
You, sir, MUST be hunting with an all wood bow made from a sapling you cut with a sharp rock(and strung with a grass bowstring) that launches flint-tipped river cane arrows fletched with turkey feathers from a bird you caught with your bare hands........after all, anything more can't be "traditional"! :rolleyes: :saywhat:
Sorry fellas I stirred the pot a lil but the statements about carbon arrows and recurves are non sensical if you are shooting a laminated longbow. To each his own I will get back in my trash can now!
Sorry I didn't mean to bash carbon arrows or anybody who shoots them. If you would reread my post I said twice I thought they probably are better shafts than wood. I only thought they were quite a stretch from traditional. And didn't realize the number of posts helped to determine the relevancy of a post or the credibility or knowledge of the poster. I've read a lot of forum posts over the years that seemed to say very little but I guess it would help get a persons post count up! I don't really care what a person shoots out of a longbow or recurve. Just glad they're not hunting with a compound or crossbow. That's just me.
QuoteOriginally posted by Medic85:
Hey guys I'm running low on arrows and I'm thinking of making the switch to woods. Is there much of a performance difference in comparison to carbon?. Also is there much maintenance with them? Any input is appreciated.
Hope we haven't scared you off with our bantering.
Sometimes we forget someone is trying to find differences between objects.
The man asked for performance differences between carbon and wood and somehow we launched headlong into an argument about "tradition". Why do we do that?
There ARE performance differences. Discussing the differences isn't blasphemy. Let's get this back on track.
QuoteOriginally posted by yearcher:
Sorry I didn't mean to bash carbon arrows or anybody who shoots them. If you would reread my post I said twice I thought they probably are better shafts than wood. I only thought they were quite a stretch from traditional. And didn't realize the number of posts helped to determine the relevancy of a post or the credibility or knowledge of the poster. I've read a lot of forum posts over the years that seemed to say very little but I guess it would help get a persons post count up! I don't really care what a person shoots out of a longbow or recurve. Just glad they're not hunting with a compound or crossbow. That's just me.
Well, I reread your original post and I still get the same message........although it appears as you are backpedalling somewhat now.
Your original post was totally uncalled for and has no place in this thread and was indeed bashing.
There is just something special about wood arrows, especially out of a long bow. Carbon and aluminum are generally more durable and wood requires some maintenance. Yet wood is just fun, and, as has previously been mentioned, some wood arrows smell great when you break them. If you try them and like them, you may well wind up making your own woodies, which will open up a whole new realm of archery for you. I have found tuning wood to be easier than aluminum but have no experience with carbon. I have mostly shot cedar but also have some Douglas Fir arrows that I like a lot.
I am thinking about switching to wood arrows, too. But I think I'll keep some carbon and aluminum arrows around, partly to be frugal and use up my supply, and also because I like the idea of having some known, matched stock handy if I need it for sorting out a problem. I think the heart of traditional bowhunting comes down to getting closer to prey than when working with compounds, crossbows, or firearms, and for me, shooting non-woods hasn't relaxed that challenge significantly.
medic 85
woody weights are great for tuning wood arrows...they can correct too heavy of a spine to a degree but not to light of a spine...they also make your arrow more weight forward if you like a little more penetration
three rivers sells them maybe a few other places
good point grey goose
carbons don't give you any signifcant advantage in a hunting situation other than better penetration... thats my sole reason for using them .....some might argue more accuracy ..but if your wood arrows are matched the accuracy thing is minimal
Don't have the time right now to devote to wood arrows. Couldn't get some I bought and played with flying well enough, so stuck with carbon.
For years I hunted with wood and stump shot with aluminum.
I also killed near a hundred deer before I ever even tried to bare shaft test an arrow dang internet!
Wood shafts that are spined correctly perform just as well if not better for hunting. I said already I have only been using aluminum and carbon because I am lazy. I also like the EFOC concept. Three Rivers also sells a drill bit and piece of round stock with a hole in it to drill hole in the end of woodys so you can put a nail inside to add weight I made my own. Critters don't care what we kill them with!
Im switching to wood next year (or after this season)
I think next year I will just small game hunt.
I just need to figure out the spine i'll need.
Currently my 2018s shoot like darts.
So id like to get a comparable flight.
I have carbons, aluminums, and woods. I use wood mostly during hunting season. I find that longbows shoot wood just as well as anything else and with some shots, wood seems to have more forgiveness. The best thing I like about woods is that my small game arrows, my stump shooting arrows and my broadheads all react the same, because they are are the same. The problem with carbon is the per shaft price. I hate it when dollar signs flash in my head when I am shooting at a pheasant. I do not buy the price argument. I have wood arrows that are ten years old and more that are still in target use and in my quiver with broadheads and blunts. Not all shaft suppliers are equal, I have had shafts that were not of consistent quality. I shoot tapered cedars and do not have a problem keeping them straight or flying just as accurate as my carbons and aluminums. I have found that quite often when someone is having problems with wood shafts is that they are the wrong spine or set up wrong. While a full length carbon may fly for a person, guessing which spine wood to shoot gets complictaed when one insist on shooting arrows with a lot of extra length. When someone wants arrows from me, I need to watch them shoot. I give them arrows absolutely so longer than needed and if they have a soft creeping release, I want that fixed before I make any arrows. For guys with Hill style bows, I see lots of guys that claim to have a 28" draw, but release at 26". If they buy arrows to match that 28" and then give a few pounds extra, their arrows will fly loggy. Carbons are of course more consistent and stiff, but as a bow hunter only, there is an advantage to using one shaft style for all of the various hunts. I will admit that I get a guilty feeling when I lose an aluminum or carbon in the wild. Losing a wood arrow is in the long run less litter. Wood is also warmer on the index finger and quieter in the quiver. After saying all that, tomorrow I am going out with a quiver full ancient Acme cedars and original Grizzlies.