Trad Gang

Please Talk me out of it or send me packing.
Here's  my dilemma I've been off and on with trad since 2008 I've taken  two deer with my recurve. This year I decided to go totally trad and give my compound the year off and hopefully send it into retirement. I've been practicing all year and happy with my set up tuned better than ever ( more on that later)
So opening morning I have 3 does walk out with 15 min. Of being on stand. I'm thinking unbelievable . So I draw on the biggest one and the shot was gone the arrow sailed high and left right over her back . I did just about everything wrong than an archer could did not anchor. Did not pick a spot I don't think I even hit full draw. O.K. I know what I  did wrong cursed myself etc..... So at the end of the morning pulled a blunt out focused were the deer was picked a leaf. And drilled it. All me right? So a week later same stand same 3 deer almost the same spot. So I'm telling myself what I needed to do but my body just went ahead and did the same thing it did the week before . So after the deer was gone out of anger I grabbed a blunt picked a spot on a little pine and let it fly. Drilled it again. All me again.
The next  week I really worked on my mental game shot sequence  and anchor.  My confidence was still shaken from the 2 misses
So weekend before this past one I was in a different stand and had 2 nice does come in from my right and headed behind me I turned back to my right focused on the deer I wanted shoot  drew touched  anchor picked a spot and let it fly and in my disbelief I shot low and back the deer was walking but not very fast . I muttered the f bomb to my self a couple of times knocked another arrow but one deer had me pinned staring right at me so I could not get a 2nd shot. That's it I quit.  I waited a while took the blunt out out again picked a stump where the deer was let it fly. And l felt my lower limb hit my pack that was on the seat. My arrow went low and left or back as on the deer. Now  I may have hit my limb on the pack when I shot at the deer. But I can't say for sure.Either way I decided I'm done with trad.
So  this past weekend I grabbed my compound to hunt with but was still upset at my failure with my curve  Sunday evening I was thinking I need to try my recurve  with the pressure off of not going to hunt with it I would shoot my BHs and not worry about dulling them. My group was huge left and rights I couldn't figure why so bad so. So I figured I'd experiment nothing to loose right? tried going from split finger which I switched to this year back to 3 under. My groups got a little better. So I then took my 165  sharks head off and went back to my 125 stingers another change this rear. My groups tightened up and even trashed a stinger. I could not believe how well I was shooting better than I have in a long time.  I was hitting  a 2in chunk out of my 3D at 20 yd  almost every shot and the one that did not hit it were close to it.
So my confidence came back a little.
I'm sorry this is so long but I'm at a crossroads.  With 3 misses under my belt I feel I have no business hunting trad. And maybe I should stick with my compound that I have all the confidence in the world with. Or buck up and continue what I set out to do convert totally to trad. Missing is no fun and a guy only gets so many shot opportunities. And I hunt to harvest deer that's kind of the point. I just don't know what direction I want to take.

Can any of you relate to any of this ?
Thanks for reading if you made it through.
Tim

Went through that the second year I went full trad. The first year I only shot hogs and javelina with my recurve. The second year was all out trad with my wheels collecting dust. I missed high several times from an elevated stand.  Wounded a doe and grabbed the wheels. Then late in the season went back to the recurve and took a little scrub buck. I sold my my wheels the next year.  All the guys I hunt with that are trad shooters struggle with the high miss from an elevated stand.  I take my 3D deer target to my stands before the season starts and practice a little. It helps. You will learn from your mistakes and you will make more I promise.  Keep at it and keep learning.  You will get better and it is so much more rewarding for me when I am lucky enough to harvest an animal.

Stick with whatever broadhead is flying best. And yes I can relate. My first year of switching to traditional gear I missed 6 yes 6 deer including a huge buck before I finally connected. You are over thinking it and putting too much pressure on yourself. The next time a deer comes in, just tell yourself you are shooting at a tame animal and you have all the time in the world. If you have done it before, you will do it again. Don't feel bad. Keep your chin up.

Tim, none of us can tell you what to do here! You need to follow your heart. We do this to have fun. I can tell you this though, the first one is the hardest, and experience (read more sucessful kills) makes it easier for most.

There is nothing wrong with you going with your gut and hunting with whichever weapon you are confident with. If you convince yourself to go back to the wheels, you may find that you are perfectly happy there. Good for you if that is how it goes. But you may also find that your heart is really a traditional one and want to come back. That is fine too.

I can also tell you that misses are part of the game! Anyone who has hunted very long (with most any weapon) will experience some misses. It just happens. None of us like it. And it sucks that your first three chances were misses, but, at least they were not bad hits.

From what I read, it seems like you are shooting well. Something is happening in your mental part when you get the shot at a live critter. The shot where your bow limb hit the pack was just pure bad luck. That too has happened to most all of us at one time or another.

I wish you the best of luck, whichever path you take. I will also add this.......there is no feeling in the world like that when you successfully harvest an animal with a trad bow with no sights.

Good luck to you, sir!

Bisch

Tim,

My pastor tell us (the congregation) "You do what you want to do" His Point?  A person will make up his mind one way or the other and choose the direction he will go.  Of course he is referring to serving the Lord, but this principle hold true in all areas of life.

So your thinking whats that got to do with me and Trad? Right? Commitment my Boy commitment, get it in your mind and the heart I'm sticking this out and it will come together.

I am not a great shot and it took nearly 9 years before my first Trad Deer came, But that commitment keeps me going and it has become easier as the confidence is gained.

Now as for the changes Broad heads, shooting styles etc... I'm sure they could and maybe did play into the misses but the lack of confidence the mental game is your biggest culprit  :readit:

it's not the bow. your just rushing you shot. ask me how I know.

Been there, done that. First, you might be putting pressure on yourself, based on your story. If your shooting from a stand (tree), practice from an elevated stand. Canting the bow helps IMO, but depends on your style. Secondly, focus on a spot, don't look at the whole target (deer). Finally, shooting without coming to anchor and not aiming, is something you want to correct. Start by shooting into a bale, without a target at 10 yds. The emphasis is on picking a spot and completing everything correctly. Shoot a few arrows correctly, then quite and wait until the next day. Your developing a learned behavior and training your muscles. There is no point in practicing bad habits.  Continue the practice for a week or two and anytime you feel the urge to shoot without coming to full draw.

Remember, shooting is a learned muscle response and it is important to practice correctly. Picking a spot on a target is easier than a deer for some. It is a matter of practice. Draw on a target and let it down. You want to be able to take your practice into the field, with the same results. Switching back to a Comp...d won't help you build the confidence, and correct habits. Hang in there, what your experiencing is quiet common.

I've hunted with recurves and longbows since 1975, last year I missed 2 deer.
Never missed 2 in one season before, but I'm not going to give up. It's just part of it.

Just part of it .

Even the best predators ( lions , léopards ect...)

miss !!

Hey it took three years to get my first coyote with a bow. I can't get a deer if I had too Not even with a rifle . It sure is more fun goofing up ,missing , and scaring away game with this stuff. Your trying too hard.I have had three shots at deer with a bow and all were misses. If you never miss your not taking enough shots. Hang in there. I think the need to kill something to be hunting is getting to you. Not saying that I hunt to look at butterflies but your not going to win all the time. Do it for fun not as a necessity.

Stick with it, your mechanics are there.  The mental game is getting you.

There are two things that I have taught myself and my boys.

1.  Three deep breaths.  Helps calm and focus you.  

2.  Mentally going through the shot process.
-Draw
-anchor/back tension
-pick a spot, concentrate, focus
-release
-follow through

This slows you down and gets your head into the game.  It is natural to rush a shot when the adrenalin is flowing.

When my friends say I think I'm going to give it up. I say can I have your stuff and they always seem to change their minds. I'm in the same boat. Just keep at it.

What I have to do is make sure I allow the deer to come within MY comfort zone. Even then, a miss or two or more will occur. And have. I will likely never own a compound ever again. Might as well wait for gun season. The last time I did that I felt weird but had taken a young fellow on his first hunt and we took shotguns. I still remember the weird feeling.

Three strikes, you're out. But, there are nine more innings and many more at bats to go. The game is long from over.

I have had my share of failures with trad and  thought of giving up too at one time. Confidence and focus are so vital to success with traditional archery and when mine were shaken, it was a challenge to regroup, recommit, and get back to work.  As has been said, no one can tell you what is right for you, but if you continue to focus on your form, on shot consistency, and on your mental focus, my guess is that your confidence will be rebuilt and you will connect on a critter. Try to relax at the time of the shot by remembering that you will not be healthier or happier if you kill a deer with a stickbow. You are not shooting with this type of bow for anyone but yourself...because it's what you want...so take the pressure off yourself and enjoy the experience. It can be wonderful    :archer: .  

Claudia

Did not have time to read all your post...but I take it you've missed 3...well get this...I missed my 1st EIGHT.....but I stuck with it...and here's some of the special animals I've killed since drilling #9.....

  Soooo Glad I never gave up - Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/tg)

Stay after it

Tim, first and foremost you need to stop putting so much pressure on yourself and remember the reasons why we go hunting in the first place. Personally, I go to enjoy myself and decompress from every day things such as work, bills, etc., etc.. I choose to hunt with traditional archery only for several reasons. One, it's a personal satisfaction when I harvest a animal. Look at it like this, at least you had clean misses Tim. I had a few of those moments to where I wanted to just give up trad all together, but to me, that would be to easy and my wife constantly tells me that I am way to stubborn to do anything the easy way. Haha. Keep at it Tim and I can assure you if you do, you find that blissful moment when you finally connect again!!

I agree with all the above but:

Are you hunting out of a treestand? Do you practice, I mean REALLY practice out of one?

I know several guys who are really good 3d shooters who miss deer regularly out of their treestand, but never practice shooting out of one.

I think it is important. Food for thought,hope it helps.

Some great input here Tim

One point you made at the end was the tuning.

It appears in your post the broad head change may have caused a tuning issue.

Going back to your stingers as you said tightened up your group.  Your solution is in your post regarding your arrow flight.

Tim, don't give up!! I went through it- in fact, if there be one who hasn't, I'd like to hear about it. My first trad season was two springs back hunting turkeys. I did the ground work, found the birds and was able to line up with them several times that year. Did I kill one? No sir. My first shot was on a bird that I knew was mine, only my arrow didn't care to fly far enough and ate dirt. My second shot lined up perfect, but decided to fly too high. Fast forward to fall. How can I miss a deer? Shot under my third target and over my fourth. Let's talk frustration... I wanted to give up, but tradgang talked me out of it. Then it finally happened- my first trad connection- and how sweet a relief it was!!

Stay with it Tim. Your time will come. Mother nature is just prepping you for the greatest feeling in hunting with a stick and string buddy.

Tim,
You've already gotten some great replies so I'll only add what I noted from your post.  You are clearly a good hunter and able to put yourself in range of deer AND able to get to full draw and loose the arrow.  That alone is a big positive.  Rushing the shot, pressure and being uncertain of your ability are beating you up.  Starting with your shooting.  Practice and find your most accurate setup.  Once you find it, stick with that setup and your confidence will increase.  Practice shooting with your broadheads.  Know your effective range and stick to it.  Make sure your hunting arrow shoots the same as your target arrow.  Changing broadheads can affect arrow flight.  When you feel confident again get out there and enjoy the hunt.  Pick a spot and good luck.

Couldn't agree more with everyone else.  I am also in hot pursuit of my first trad harvest.  The missed opportunities thus far (4, one on what would probably have been a pope and young whitetail) have only fueled the fire, to the point that I wake up in the middle of the night with bow hunting on my mind.  My advice is this:  Hunting is about pursuit as much as it is about the harvest.  Dust yourself off, grit your teeth, get back on stand and try again.  PURSUE the traditional mindset, no different than you would a game animal.  I wish you all the best luck.  Hang in there!!!!

Jake

I struggle with this delema all the time. Here is what I can tell you. Do what is best for you. Do what gives you the most pleasure and happiness from. Stop beating on yourself and have fun and choose accordingly.

Your putting allot of pressure on yourself. And your blowing it. Use what u have confidence in and shoot the trad bow for fun and small game. Maybe your confidence will go up. Get a deer or 2 under your belt if you have the tags and he opportunities then go back and grab trad bow and have fun. You know u already got deer or two then it won't matter if you screw up and I bet you will smoke one!

You answered your own question... When the pressure was off, you hit a pine cone and a leaf from your stand... All you did was not pick a spot and follow through! That's why it's called "The Moment Of Truth". The 3D range is not hunting. Stump Shooting is not hunting. Practice in your back yard is not hunting. Part of being human, I guess, is being distracted.

Use your grey matter to calm down when it counts. Remember, an arrow goes where it's pointed. You do have what it takes, why give up?

... mike ...

Been there.  I chose to stick it out and am glad I did.  I don't get as many with trad gear but I enjoy the hunt more.  If I just need quick meat, I grab my 30-06.  If I want to enjoy my hunt, I grab my longbow.  I took away my training wheels by trading them for a pair of custom knives to match my longbow riser, one a bushcraft knife and the other a skinner made to my design.

Is your family going hungry?

How's this.  I had taken 57 big game animals with stick bows.  Bear, bull elk, mulies, whitetails.  I had a string of 12 seasons, 12 shots and 12 deer.  I had a magnum buck in at 8 yds.  Had already picked the spot on the wall for the rack.  I leaned out and shot right over him!  3 years later I had taken 3 deer but with a total of 12 shots!

I had let the pressure of success take over my mind right at release and it took me a total of 4 YEARS to finally over come it.  Quit????  If it weren't for the mind blowing, body shaking pressure of killing something with a stick bow I think we would all quit.

You have been toughing it out. Some folks would have given up on miss number 1.

As you have already deduced, there is something going on physically or mentally that makes your shot different on targets vs. deer.  One very simple thing you can do is to visualize shots well-made as you are preparing for and executing the shot. For example on shots that are less than 13 yards I calm myself by remembering I've practiced this "pool table" shot on my home range (next to the pool table) thousands of times.

I'm going to assume you shoot pins with a compound because most people, with today's very short bows do.  I'm also going to assume you are trying to shoot "instinctive" with your recurve?

If so, it is highly likely, during the distracting pressure presented by a shot at deer you are seeing the point of your arrow (subconsciously) and putting that point on the spot you are looking at on the deer. If the deer is inside of 25 yards and you are shooting a normal set-up, your arrow is going to go high every time. To help explain this most recurve archers know their "point-on" distance is 35-60 yards (shorter for the 3-under shooter, longer for split finger). Imagine if your point on is 35 yards and you put the point of the arrow "on" the center of the lungs -- HIGH Miss.

I did this in the early 1970's and didn't know why. An Olympic archer coach and accomplished recurve hunter explained it to me in 2010.

I now use this tendency to my advantage. I string walk. Do I still miss? Yep, I'm 6 for 8 on white-tails these past 3 years since my return to recurves. I killed #1, didn't kill #2 and #3, and have killed #4-#8.

Basically, for almost any normal rig I set my fingers (3-under) one index finger width below the nock of the arrow for 20 yards. I set it 1.5 finger widths for 15. Then I consciously see the point of the arrow on the spot I want to hit. I don't try to hold that arrow point on the spot, just like a proper sight-pin hold I allow it to move in order to enjoy self-correction. (If you try to force a lock-steady hold your groups will expand.)

Works for  me.

Of course if I described this sighting method on another site or two I'd be branded a heretic and unworthy to hold a recurve.  Some of those critics don't even know how to scout well enough to be presented a shot at a deer.

There is nothing wrong with your setup. The treesharks will fly funny when you have mind games going on. A bad release does not mix well with those broadheads. I know this from personal experience.

Use the Stingers, and try drawing on a few deer without shooting them. With three misses you have plenty of opportunities to do this. Just hit your anchor, pick a spot, and expand until your muscles are screaming for a release, then let down.

Your choice,  but. . .

I think you should optimize your rig (arrows, broadheads, etc so you like your shooting again.  Use a realistic head, not the biggest or fanciest. .  just one that flies well all the time.

Then,  shoot some very close deer. Really close, not 20 yards, but 10.  In every case, pick a spot before you draw.  Focus on it or not, but pick it.

Then do your shot thing.  Hit the spot. At that point, forget the deer and everything else, only the spot.

I think closer deer need to be harvested before you spread out to farther deer.  Picking a spot gets more difficult as you get farther away from your target, especially when there is not one painted on the "bale".

It is my thought that "not picking a spot" is the number one reason for misses at game, period.

ChuckC

QuoteOriginally posted by Gator1:
Some great input here Tim

One point you made at the end was the tuning.

It appears in your post the broad head change may have caused a tuning issue.

Going back to your stingers as you said tightened up your group.  Your solution is in your post regarding your arrow flight.

I agree with this.  If the broadheads were not flying good, it might be that your part of the shot was good, but the arrows/broadheads were the problem.  Good luck.

Take your time, slow down, don't rush your shot, enjoy  the hunt. We all miss, part of the game no one is perfect. I have had a couple bad experiences this year as well, totally my fault. Just relax, take your time. If you decide this is not for you then so be it, whatever you hunt with enjoy it. I have made mistakes and plenty of them, but I enjoy the good times of Trad hunting to much to ever go back. Hunting is supposed to be a relaxing, fun experience, don't be so hard on yourself.   :thumbsup:  
Tom

Stay with it. I have missed three this year in search of my first tad deer. Finally connected last night. Best feeling in the world.

Your getting shots.......My first shot was in 1971, my second shot was Oct 7 2013. Keep at it and just focus, don't shoot at the deer, pick a hair. Oh yea, both of my shots missed.

It's not for everyone.  Maybe you just are not mentally in the zone to be able to do it with trad gear at a level you want/need?  I feel way more comfortable with a stick and string than a wheel bow and all the devices involved because there is so much less to think about for me and that makes me a better predator but not everyone feels the same.  I have missed animals with all kinds of equipment so it happens but I just feel better with a recurve or longbow when hunting.  

If you sit in the tree thinking "I wish I had my compound" you probably will continue to have moderate success at best.  On the other hand, if you sit in the tree with said compound and think "I wish I was hunting with my longbow" you will likely have a moderate sense of accomplishment even if you do score"  

Tough spot to be and riding the fence hurts your balls!  The only person that can make that choice is you - ask not what tool to use for the job but what tool provides "you" with the greatest sense of accomplishment when the job is done.  If they are equal then go with the one that brings that sense more often until "more often" is no longer important.

whats more important to you? Killing deer or how you kill them?  Once you truthfully answer that question then you will know what you should do.

If you enjoy trad then don't give up. I smoked the first doe I ever drew on the blew my next several shots. Came out of it and then fell back into a rut. Mine has been lack of shot opportunities for the last several years. I could try to explain that away but it's of no consequence, the fact remains that I've not shot a deer with my bow in a couple of years. This got me really down, especially with a buddy who seems to amble out in the woods when ever and slay bruiser after bruiser. Not exactly the same set of circumstances but I asked the same questions of "should I quit?" Go back to my compound? Or rifle? But the bottom line is, I love shooting trad. I love every aspect of it, and I have resolved to learn and improve myself even if it takes a long time, and means that I don't enjoy the same level of "success" as my buddies. The reward is worth the challenge to me. This year has been very slow for me again so far only having hunted a handful of times. But I will improve, I'll find my shot opportunity and ill have my time. The only one that can answer your question is the one who looks you in the mirror. My advice would be, if you love it don't give it up, endeavor to persevere. Hope all this jabbering helps somehow.

Tim, I read some of the replies, but not all..there's some great advise.  Here's mine. I've been at the trad game for 23 yrs, 32 all together bowhunting. (not as long as some, but longer than many)  I've had some spectacular misses on some pretty big whitetails with both compound and recurves.  it happens, its part of the game.  That's why its called hunting and not shooting. You're not alone.

First of all, its just a deer. That's they way that you need to think of it.  NO PRESSURE.  If you need to split the time between a compound and stick and string, do it.  Get some meat in the freezer first.  I made the decision to go all trad about 6 yrs ago.  Before that, I went back and forth. I got a few deer under my belt before I made the switch.  

My buddy's going through the same thing.  Hes shot a few nice bucks with his recurve, but he feels that he didn't hit them good enough.  His confidence is gone, but He really doesn't feel the joy in taking one with a compound.....tough situation.  You need to just get back on your horse and ride.

I missed a lot in the beginning. I had older bowhunters who started with recurves, that went compound in the '70's, really give it too me about my choice of bow.  I didn't let it get to me.  I was determined to take a deer with my recuve, and I did.  It gets easier after the first.

If we all gave up after only 3 misses, this would be a pretty lonely site! Good luck!

Tim,

Lots of good responses here, and I'll weigh in with my own opinion.  If you enjoy shooting traditional, then don't give up on it.  

As you eluded to in your post though, we do have a responsibility to be ethical in our pursuit of game animals.  If you've missed 3 that you thought were within your responsible range, then my opinion is that something is wrong with your practice routine.  Shooting from elevation is different from shooting at ground level and the tendency is to shoot high if you don't practice enough from elevation.  Ask me how I know and why I only hunt from the ground.  I don't have the ability to practice from a stand frequently enough to be proficient and that keeps me grounded.  You can still be successful there and it's a lot of fun.

Also, things like not picking a spot and short-drawing should not happen IF your shot sequence is really grooved.  Making that happen takes longer than a week.  Maybe think about doing so close bail work.  Maybe try a draw-check of some kind.  the shooters form forum is loaded with good information.  Change the way you practice until that shot is grooved, so when your mind is fully focused on the animal in front of you, your subconscious mind runs a good shot sequence.  

As others have said, this should be fun, but that doesn't mean it won't take work.  I don't mean this to sound harsh in any way.  I was in your shoes at the end of last year.  Changing the way I practiced, and the way I hunt has taken my shooting to another level, but it's still work for me.  Work that I love to do.  Just something to think about & I hope you find the right answer for yourself.

All that comes to mind is take a look at what Tom Brady did in last week's game against the Saints. There are times when we all need a bit of what Brady has going for  him whether you love him or hate him.

First, retune your bow with your arrows and field points and then get your broadheads flying perfect. I think a 40 grain jump in broadhead weight with the same arrow is to much, at least for my bows for both arrows to tune correctly.

Second, wait for a close shot of 10 or 15 yards on a relaxed deer and get it done.

Same thing happened to me on a hog hunt, shot over a hog and missed. I wounded a hog that I shot too high from the treestand and i was a nervous wreck thinking about wounding another. The next day at camp, I practiced on form and tuning and waited for a perfect shot and drilled the next hog i shot at.

I did worse than that my first year. Still pisses me off.

I've done a lot better since, but this year I'm fighting some of those old demons all over again.  That's what makes it so special when it all comes together.

I will also add this....every animal I've killed with a trad bow was so much more fun and rewarding than any I've shot with a gun or wheels. It's like being a kid all over again.

What LittleBigMan said.  If your first priority is deer in the freezer, do what you must, otherwise, enjoy the journey.

If it helps, I missed the two biggest bucks I have ever had a shot at (compound or recurve) with my recurve last year.  DOH!  It sure was fun though.

  :knothead:

it has already been said in this thread, but the biggest factor for most people is not practicing from the same height they are hunting from. EVERYTHING changes, from the shot angle to the penetration path, to the effect of gravity on the arrow.

most guys -- self included in the past -- don't practice enough from the tree stand.

i had a bad day recently, shooting from a ladder stand in my yard. even questioned my setup. went inside, relaxed, thought about it, came back out and shot great groups -- with the exact same setup! i wasn't bending at the waist enough, and my alignment wasn't as good as it should have been. simple fix once i figured it out.

keep at it as long as you enjoy it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Did not have time to read all your post...but I take it you've missed 3...well get this...I missed my 1st EIGHT.....but I stuck with it...and here's some of the special animals I've killed since drilling #9.....

  Soooo Glad I never gave up - Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/tg)

Stay after it

I had a similar start Terry, with the exception that I  just didn't shoot for various reasons. After the first kill, I went to town with many to follow.
Then, I entered a dry spell for a couple years. 3 misses and one graze due to a deflection. That spell was broke yesterday.
Don't give up. Stick with it and enjoy the ride.
it will be all the sweeter when you get there.

I had LOTS of advice from many great guys, but over my 3 decades doing this (reading, talking to guys) I have seen VERY few explain "WHY" this occurs. Some had personal examples of some physical practice they had done- BUT none could explain what was happening. Jay Kidwell did explain it!  He is a sports psychologist where this is his doctoral specialty. And it works in a real world!

Read Jay Kidwell's Book.  Instinctive Archery Insights.  We all need to learn to train our mind/thinking as well as the physical. World class/professional ATHLETES typically have to learn this.  You are missing for only ONE reason:  Your human/natural response/training of the brain needs to develop/practice.  You clearly have the physical skill- now to put it together!  

Most of us think we need more shooting/physical practice.  Maybe, maybe not.  Read the book- including insights to 100% success of curing target panic with the Olympians archers he has worked with.

It s not weird stuff.  Makes perfect sense once you understand it.

Hang in there. . .  as others said- It really is worth it.

Dan in KS

It is very rarely the equipments fault in my opinion. People miss with all forms of weapons,  firearms and archery. Your confidence takes a hit for sure though. This season so I have only been able to hunt a handful of times and one morning I got 2 opportunities,  both on bucks, both standing within 3 feet of each other at the time of the shots, 10minutes apart. Flew a mere inch over both of their backs. I was anxious,  witb limited time to hunt, and didn't focus. Could have easily happened witb any weapon, just so happens my weapon of choice is a longbow. Anyway, do whatever feels right to you, and good luck.

If a few misses is going to throw you for such a loop, maybe trad hunting ain't for you. Misses are to be expected and are going to happen, perfect setup or not. Sam Koger told me that exact thing when I started. You'll miss many more than you hit.

Thousands miss point blank with a rifle every year just to put things into perspective.

I'm going to be the odd one here and say I'd quit if I were you if its making you miserable.

Yep, this happened to me last year. I missed four deer in one week! Made me sick but I ended up getting one at the end of the season. Never give up!

Everyone hunts for different reasons. I get it, misses are no fun. You have gotten great advice on how to improve your shooting, on a technical level, and how to improve your mental preparation before the shot. These tips will help you to harvest game for sure.

I think the real question is why do you hunt with trad gear? What is motivating you to go all traditional? You said, "I hunt to harvest game, that's kind of the point." I know what you mean. In a strict interpretation of what we're doing, we all hunt to harvest game. On a personal level, I hunt with trad gear because I couldn't care less about the need to harvest game. I enjoy my time afield and for me, that's enough. As for me, I feel it's more gratifying to kill game with my longbow or not at all with a compound. Having said that, I haven't killed a deer since 2009. I think if you explore your true desires about what is driving your conversion to trad, you'll find the best course for you, be it trad or compound. In the end, you need to find fulfillment in whatever method you use.

Best regards,
Dennis

I've struggled with the same problem before. When an animal comes in and I get ready to shoot, I mentally tell myself to slow down and focus on the spot. It seems that the rest takes care of it's self. I HAVE to slow down and concentrate or I will rush things, then the wheels fall of the bike and I end up sailing an arrow. Just tell yourself to slow down and relax. Stick with it...Trad archery can be the most frustrating thing in the world at sometimes but just stick with it, stay positive, and tell yourself you can do it.

It's worth sticking with in my opinion. Traditional equipment is very effective. The dedication involved and the improvement of your craft are a big part of bowhunting. The rewards are sweeter when everything comes together. Definitely practice
from a tree stand if you hunt from one.

You need to follow your gut on this. I'd rather miss than have a bad hit and not recover. But, this is yours and only your decision to make. I've gone back and forth on this many times myself. There is no magic answer.

Experience can be a hard pill to swallow.

Trad is different game...not all that forgiving really.

The name of the hunting game is FUN!..unless you're starving.

Do what gives you the most enjoyment.
I missed my first few as well with trad..4 actually.

That said.....

WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO QUIT...REMEMBER WHY YOU HELD ON SO LONG...

I can tell you from experience the first one down was well worth the effort of hanging on.

I have those same thoughts at times. 2 Years in a row I have hit and lost BIG BULL ELK. Last year bad hit high in the shoulder this year with that high shot worrying me to death I hit another big bull low and back a little. How many opportunities do you get in a lifetime at BIG BULLS ?? My only saving grace is I have harvested 4 Good Bulls with the other style of Archery Equipment. Sticking with it is my goal. I share your pain.
Randy Chamberlin

Someone close, help Tim out. Sometimes it takes a second pair of eyes or looking at it from a different perspective. I remember that first year, missed the biggest deer of my life after practicing for about a month.  I jumped up and down in the stand and whistled so the deer would run to my hunting partner Dave. He was alerted and shot it with his compound. The next year, I swayed him into trying a recurve. He shot two bucks the first morning in the stand. For me, I like that feel that a stickbow gives.  Tim in NC

It's good to see this type of thread.  I've been on the verge more than once.  I just don't have as much fun shooting my compound as I do my recurves.

I started head 2 years ago.  I started with shooting a small buck on the first day of the hunt.  Fun but got lucky with a marginal shot.  Last year I shot a doe in the femoral artery.  Got the deer but didn't feel confident.  Arrow didn't go where I wanted.  Then I proceeded to miss 3 deer in a week.  Started looking at the new wheelie bows during gun season.  Then I ended up smoking a doe during the end of December.  The arrow went exactly where I was looking.  After the shot I just sat there and smiled.  That was the coolest and most rewarding hunt I've ever had.  Amazing.

I'm in it for the long haul now.


We love this because it is a bit more difficult.

Lot of deer between a clean miss and a kill.

Reading threads like this one would believe all that area never comes into play. 2, 5, x clean misses but if you keep flinging it will suddenly just appear in the kill.

In my opinion, the why of a miss needs to be addressed, especially multiples. It's just luck that a miss isn't a wound.

This is my first trad season, after 18 years and 85 wheel kills. Missed my first two, killed my next two, and missed my lady one. All high misses. I'm getting there, but it is an adjustment.

Tim, You do not have a "shooting" problem.

You have an ATTITUDE problem!!!!!   :thumbsup:

Like everyone else on here, I too can relate. But for me, it isn't the missed shot that has me reconsidering traditional from time to time, but rather the complete lack of any shot. Hunting the black tails of California are, in my opinion, the toughest dear in the country to hunt. Black Tails are tough, but the seasons in California are ridiculously hot and dry. I'm lucky to get a single shot all year long, this year not even allowing me that. I would kill for 3 shots in a day. Many of the game I have seen this year I could have easily taken with a rifle, and a few I could have taken with the wheels, but not one was close enough for my range (30 or less). At the end of the day, I am more satisfied with taking what little game I can with a long bow than getting the biggest buck with a rifle or wheels. But that's just me. Everyone needs to figure it out for themselves. If it isn't fun, then what's the point of hunting anyway? Buying plastic wrapped meat at the local market is way easier and cheaper.

I quit hunting with my compound cause there was no challenge.  You want to just kill deer go back to the wheel bow.  Want a challenge stick it out.  I think in the long run it will be worth it when that first deer hits the ground.

I missed 5 deer my first year hunting trad, after those I shot a small button buck and filled every tag I had that year with a longbow. Stick with it and you will overcome, now I have killed more deer with trad than I ever did with a compound.

If it isn't fun anymore, you should quit.  For me I have more fun missing with a longbow than I do killing with a gun.  But that's just me...

Wow wow wow wow wow .
5 pages of responses I'm speechless .      :notworthy:          :notworthy:       Thank you!!!
You guys and gals have made me feel better by the out pouring of support and advice. And some very good  points  and observations. And that I'm not the only one who has missed more thn twice in one season. One that stands out was the point I made about I hunt to harvest deer.  And the response was  why is you family starving? That one really gave me an epiphany.  I said in the beginning of the year I was going all trad this season I'm not even going to look at my protec . I don't care if I miss or don't get a deer I'm doing it,with my recurve. My son actually called me on this one as I was getting the wheeler ready to go last weekend. I blew him off saying yah well I lied. But he did get me thinking. And so did all of you. I guess I don't like to fail but those who are afraid to fail,will never succeed. ( I heard that somewhere)
Oh  for the record I have taken two deer with trad. Actually the first deer I ever shot at   with my recurve I killed . The second deer the wolves got before I did. Funny both those deer were with my stingers and shooting 3 under. Mmmmm.
Thanks again to all I wish I could reply to each one of you who posted. But it took me a long time just to read them  all and I did. I have some confidence building to do  I did set up a new stand on Monday and the lanes I prepared are shorter shots I may have to bring the recurve maybe.
Thanks again
Tim.
Endeavor to persevere!    I read that on a couple posts on here even before  this season started I was thinking of having that inscription put on my next bow.       :)

Keep at it man, my first year I wounded 2 deer and completely missed high. Just tell yourself you can shoot good, keep that confidence. I finally connected this year, and a week later I missed low. You're going to miss some time or another, its hunting. But I seem to enjoy the encounters, whether I kill something or not. Ive learned to enjoy the hunt for what it brings me rather than just killing something. Going all trad has really changed my perception on hunting, definitely for the better.

you know this had me thinking the last few days.  I'm sure theres been some great posts on the whys or why nots to quit.  but like was said only you can make that choice.

My thoughts?

Personally I think success really needs to be thought hard on!   Find the fun in it again.  Its obvious you CAN shoot.  You're brains going to go bezerks trying to sort all this out.  

STOP trying to kill something and have fun.  go stumping, maybe go hog hunting or small game hunting, just get out again! Fall asleep in the treestand and smell the oaks, hear the birds, watch the sunrise and set and be thankful you've had the opportunity to be part of it.    

I too have fought this.  After one of the bigger highlites of my bowhunting career, 2 days later I had almost an ulitmate low.  From shooting an Alaskan Dall, to missing a monster grizz at 15 yards a foot over his back.  I knew right than and their I was done for, I had to quit.   With some help I pounded through it and those days are gone.  Though the drive to get out isnt the driving force of my life,  I still look foward too it.

For me....
Success is coming home safe, seeing and enjoy everything traditional archery has to offer.  And every once in a blue moon (with a silver lining), I punch a tag.

ps...

I just realized where you're at, next time I'm home I'll likely be driving through I have family north of you.  Not to mention you're in silly chicken heaven!

Precisely the reason I only take "Slam Dunk" shots....I don't think I have taken a shot past 15 yards in a long time.

Also, I notice 2 things with guys newer to traditional archery (not saying you, but consider)..new guys don't practice out of treestands enough. It's different. You need to practice the way you hunt.

And new guys tend to not practice with their broadheads much....I'm convinced it's because they aren't good at re-sharpening.

Shooting a recurve or longbow well is a lot more simple than we make it out to be. Tune your bow/arrows.Practice. Be consistent. You will get their.

Roger
Those remarks are spot on.  This was my first year back to trad and I have done exactly what you stated.  I have been shooting my BHs's at my 3D target from an elevated stand all summer long.  Max 20 yards.  And knowing I wanted my shots to be no longer that 18 yards I repositioned all my stands that would afford me those shots.  Also lowered them to no more than 15' to improve my posture and shot angle.  So far this year it has worked.  I took my first buck with trad gear in a long time and have also taken two doe.  Funny thing for me is that I consistently make a better first arrow shot out of the three stand than the ground.

As has been said...only you can judge what you want out of archery hunting. I shoot trad. mostly year around 3-d, stumpin, small game hunting,  ect. Shoot one compound for field archery and one compound for Deer hunting. Just am not consistant enough to take a chance on wounding a deer. My choice, my hunt. I know this is a Trad. site and not trying to start a conflict. I hunt deer to kill deer, and my Mathews compound makes a more dependable shot.I also have killed a spike and a doe with a Widow PSA recurve. One opinion. Thanks, Roy

I will have to STRONGLY disagree that you will miss more than you hit.  If that were the case for me I'd be a bird watcher.

I mean no disrespect, but I expect more out of myself to hit AND kill more animals than I miss.

The ONLY time I expect more missed than hits is when I'm pheasant hunting.

COMMITMENT and Animal behavior knowledge when the window opens makes for very few misses.

well that and you'd look like a real hillbilly in knickers and a golf hat Terry haha!

QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
I will have to STRONGLY disagree that you will miss more than you hit.  If that were the case for me I'd be a bird watcher.

I mean no disrespect, but I expect more out of myself to hit AND kill more animals than I miss.

The ONLY time I expect more missed than hits is when I'm pheasant hunting.

COMMITMENT and Animal behavior knowledge when the window opens makes for very few misses.

Taken out of context Terry. When you are beginner and inexperienced you're going to miss more. Not everyone can be stonecold superstar trad hunter when they begin. A few maybe, but not many.

The flip side of that, read the thread again Terry. Many experienced hunters missing, and they expect the same as you.

I had to change my way of thinking after several disappointments. Putting the experience first and results second really helped me. I waffled back and forth between wheels and trad for years after some truly spectacular failures. In hindsight, sure wish I would have stuck with trad only from the start and worked through the learning curve sooner. We need to all thank God for failure, without it's bitterness, the sweetness of success would not taste so good. Good luck my friend.

Don't you dare ring that bell!!  You're almost there!!  You're just going through your trad 'hell week'.  Keep at it!!

Get them close... Real close and don't climb very high. Use good cover and shoot them at 10 yards or less.

QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
I will have to STRONGLY disagree that you will miss more than you hit.  If that were the case for me I'd be a bird watcher.

I mean no disrespect, but I expect more out of myself to hit AND kill more animals than I miss.

The ONLY time I expect more missed than hits is when I'm pheasant hunting.

COMMITMENT and Animal behavior knowledge when the window opens makes for very few misses.

My feelings exactly, I love the outdoors and enjoy it when I'm hunting but I plan on coming home with something every time I head to the woods.

Everybody has made good contributions here...I must admit that my first season I missed 7 deer with my recurve...I learned two things from those experiences:

1. I personally am not capable of snap shooting effectively...I must hold at full draw for at least a second or so to get a good sight picture, especially when I am shooting at an animal.

2. Secondly, I am way better with a longbow.  Never really started grouping well until I made the switch (to be fair, maybe I have not come across the right recurve?)

Above all I would just say it takes some time, but the payout is tremendous...just look at the folks on this site...we are all obsessed, there must be something to it right?   :confused:  

Stick with it and success will come! good luck

I wussed out a couple years ago after a poor hit with my recurve. So I grapped the mech bow, and propmptly missed the first one by at 10 yards because the drop away messed up...

I'm pretty commited this year. If things work out half way good. I'll be rewarding myself by selling the wheels and getting a new recurve.

In the end, hunt with what you want. Nothing wrong with that.

Good luck,

B

There are guys that will go for years without even an opportunity.  You are getting shots at game.  Gratitude is the attitude.       :cool:

Part of your problem is worry...you do not want to wound game...we all feel that. It is as much mental as physical...the mental part is the most difficult.

In the end, it is for the love of the hunt. It is a natural itch some of us MUST scratch.

It is YOUR decision, but as far as I am concerned, you care SO much, nothing will do but Traditional archery...lighten up on yourself some and it will all come together.  :campfire:

I've had similar experiences as the OP and can definitely feel his pain.  I'm still not 100% trad after dabbling in it now for 4 years.  I enjoy shooting my trad bow way more than my wheelie bow, but I just can't make the switch until I'm 110% confident in my ability.

In case any of us are wondering how effective these weapons can be, there's about 50 threads going on just in 'pow wow' of people and their harvests.  We are a deadly bunch!

It definitely comes down to practice and having someone helping you through it.  Lucky for you, this entire forum is behind you.  It's really a rare place that so many people are pushing for one another to be successful, sort of an odd place in today's world.

not giving up and pushing through setbacks for extended learning experiences is what I consider part of the journey.  Some are lucky to go through these stages as youth with good mentors to help and encourage.  Others like myself dont start in this great endeavor until already adults....and if in an area with little to no support in primitive or traditional bowhunting....it does get quite difficult to keep pressing on.  If not for the forums, magazines and books...I am sure my interest would have faltered.

I focus on the experience, the hunt, how close I got, how many animals I saw at close range.....having a couple does within 5 feet while in my ground blind so that I can hear them swallowing acorns is a rush...even if I never took a shot or even if I missed.

It makes the few successes all the more rewarding in my opinion when you experience failure first and dont automatically go into being a successful bowhunter.

never quit...just enjoy the experiences you have.

stick with it Buddy  it won't happen over night  but it will happen   :thumbsup:

Keep at it, and you're going to get to a point where you're going to expect a good shot every time, and if you miss, you're going to be shocked as heck.

You guys are great I was shooting tonight  and I was kinda tired and not doing so well  my change up to 3 under made my bow sound really loud and I  was just was not consistent I came in and thought that's it wheels it is. Buuuut, now that I have revisited  this thread I may hit the drawing board starting with the tune. I'm having a tough time pulling it together. Your support  I am humbled by and I thank you.
Tim.

Hooyah man!  Keep it up!  Getting close to animals is more than half the battle and it sounds like you're going that part right!  Shooting the arrow is not the hunting part, that's just the "killing" part.  Keep up the good hunting and the "killing" part will take care of itself with time and practice.  After all like the other sport, they call it "fishing" NOT "catching."

Don't give up

Confidence in your shooting is a huge factor.... maybe you need a new bow....   :readit:

haven't read all the posts so some of this may have already been said. I took me four years to kill my first deer with a traditional bow. I am not bragging but early on I missed the same deer three times and another with her. I was out of arrows and had to quite. and yes this was at one set. the first doe even stood straddle my arrow one time I missed her. for me it was just nerves. my leg jumped so bad I had to drive it into the stand to be able to stand still. I laugh now but you can bet I wasn't laughing then. I think I would just panic, didn't pick a spot, who knows if I came to full draw. and yes I shot pretty good in the yard. I just took time in front of deer. don't think about I got to kill this deer, cause then your brain forgets about shooting and is only concerned with the deer. You've got to make the shot first, then you can think about the deer. keep at it, it will come. every miss is one closer to a hit.

I have struggled through the same issue with my gear and have had way more missed than found at this point in my life but in the las two years I have noticed two things. 1.)I Its getting somewhat easier to pick a spot. I'm not saying I hit everythin but my shot sequence has improved tremendously after many years. 2.) When switching back and forth between wheels and trad, I will struggle with the same shot sequence issues. Wheels don't make the problems go away. I missed two does last year with wheels beacause i never picked a spot. Hang in there, man! Better days are ahead with perseverence!

I am glad I found this thread.  Started trad last year and never even had a chance to release.  Today I had my first opportunity when spike and a fawn came in at 14 yards. Should have been an easy shot. I've practiced and make the shot easy.  After about 20 minutes the spike presented a shot, and I missed high. The doe took off, and the spike cut and hide for about 10 minutes. The doe came back, and the spike eventually came back and presented a nice quartering away shot at 12 yards and again I missed high.  I am also wondering how to regain my confidence.  My goal all year has been to take a deer with all my homemade trad gear...

Years ago, around 15 or so I reckon, I had 10 straight misses in the same season. The 11th shot found its mark on a nice 3x3. I ended up sneaking to within 8 yards of that deer, all the misses were farther. Never once did I think about giving up but I was worried because I was running out of season and didn't want to end up empty handed.

Looking back, that bow was not tuned well at all, it was also a little heavy for me. Before I got rid of it, I did manage to kill a few more mulies and a couple of elk, but I missed a lot too. I just figured all the misses was the name of the game, now a days I know better.

Tune tune tune and practice practice practice. At some point it all becomes second nature and you'll perform like a machine when the time comes.

I know all about it...... Missin is better than a bad shot on a deer you don't find.
Also if it was easy then everyone would do it. It's good to be reminded of how hard it is (missed a respectable mule deer this year ) personally when things gets hard it's usually because it's something worth the effort when it finally comes together.
It will get harder before it gets better "it will get better"
Shoot like you want it real bad.
People ask me how aim I tell them if I miss I just try not to do it again.  :)
Hang in there it will happen.

chup, keep your head down and bend at the waist.

Get up in a stand and borrow a range finder and learn to guestimate range from up above.   We miss high shooting down because objects are closer than they appear.

Tim,

Thanks this has been a great read. I am glad that you're going to stick with it. Personally, I could not quit if I tried, I'm hooked bad. I too, went back and forth with the compound until last year, I up and sold my Mathews. I will never look back, I love traditional archery  :)

I think you're on the right track by putting some time in on tuning your bow and arrow setup. Tuning and shot sequence are very crucial parts of a successful hunt.

Shot sequence can mean many different things to different people, to me it is as simple as having a repeatable shot. A repeatable shot, no matter what your heart rate is. A repeatable shot that is instilled into your brain, a shot that is automatic and consistently accurate.

Good Luck!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
Confidence in your shooting is a huge factor.... maybe you need a new bow....    :readit:  

Tim:

Even though I think Kirk was kidding, I think it needs to be mentioned that if you think for one second that the answer to your issue lies with your equipment, you are SADLY mistaken.  A lot of people DO think that, and if allow yourself to fall into that trap, you are setting yourself up for a lifelong, very expensive, and ultimately very disappointing and frustrating treadmill ride of searching for the next best thing that is going to solve all your problems.

It won't work. Your "problem" is NOT with your equipment.