I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on which recurves are more friendly to shoot three fingers under? I would like to shoot off the shelf if possible, 29" draw, around a 50lb draw weight. Twilliams@reallifeministries.com :archer2:
I believe any recurve can be 3 finger friendly, it just depends on if the bow was tillered for 3 under or split. You can also adjust your nock point. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm no expert, but I'll say a static recurve with even tiller. This is my set up, very quiet and no hand shock.
Split or three under has never entered my mind during a bow purchase. Some have been a bit louder 3 under but thats about it IMO.
It's a give and take w/ design,
I follow a rule that if one takes a unstrung recurve and set it on a flat surface w/ the limb tips first.You'll see the amount of preset in the bow design.Generally,the more forward the limb tips.The more sensitive the design in reguards to finger pressure.
The orginal Zipper design is extremely forgiven design but many others are far faster.
I just got a Toelke Super Static and had Dan tiller it for 3 under. This bow is super smooth. Almost like butter. :)
In my opinion, the best recurve made for 3 under is the Dakota Pro Hunter made by Rick Welch. He shoots 3 under himself, and his bows shoot 3 under with the low nock points normally found only with split finger shooters. I have a few fine recurves made by bowyers whose names you would recognize, but when it's really important to me, I grab my Dakota.
The only problem is, it's about a year wait to get one.
ILF bows have the ability to adjust to the shooter rather than the other way around :thumbsup:
McDave,
Are you going to the Maya event? If so, I'd sure appreciate it if I can try your Dakota. I'm planning on going to Rick's class next spring.
Thanks.
Bill
Yes I will be there shooting my Dakota, and you are welcome to try it.
Thanks McDave.
Been meaning to go shoot at Maya. A couple trad members of the club took pity on me at a Diablo shoot a couple years ago. I think it was Rick and Bob.
If you know them, ask them about the newbie they helped with the Centaur. :)
Any bowyer can build you a bow for three under. I shoot three under and like to build my bows for three under with even tiller. I also raise my nock at about 1/2" and can shoot both woods and carbons. You just need to tell your bowyer how you would like your bow built. That's what custom is.
How would the tiller be different between a spit finger & 3 under ??
Ordinarily, bows tillered for split have a slight positive tiller, maybe 3/16. Bows tillered for 3 under have less of a positive tiller, or sometimes have zero tiller. The reason is that the pulling force is exerted lower on the string for 3 under, putting more force on the lower limb. The objective is for both limbs to recover at the same time.
The thing I don't understand is that for many years I have requested that all the bows I buy to be tillered for 3 under, but the actual nock point required to shoot 3 under has varied from 3/8" to 7/8", based on shooting a bare shaft and tuning for a very slight nock high flight. My impression is that it's better to be shooting at a 3/8" nock height than a 7/8" nock height, assuming a tuned bare shaft in both cases, but I'm not sure if that's true or not either.
mcdave,
why would slightly knock high flight be wanted in tuning for 3 under?
just curious.
david
My bare shaft tuning method is based on a class I took from Ken Beck of BW Bows some years ago, which he also summarized in the Masters of the Bare Bow series of videos. Ideally, you would want level bare shaft flight rather than slightly nock high, if you could achieve that. The problem with level bare shaft flight is that release errors could turn that into nock low arrow flight, resulting in the shaft impacting the shelf. A compromise is to tune for slight nock high flight, so that minor release errors won't create shelf impact problems. Slight or even moderate nock high bare shaft arrow flight is easily corrected by the fletching and has very little effect on overall accuracy, whereas shelf impact creates irregular arrow flight.
I didn't mean that slight nock high tuning has any particular significance for 3 under; I think it is probably the optimal result for both 3 under and split bare shaft tuning.
mcdave,
Your findings in regards to knock height is caused by bow design.Bows w/ a lot of pre-set require a larger or deeper curve(recurve),which makes the limb tips more flimsy than a bow w/ shorter working limb design w/ narrow tips.Grip position also can play a major part as well.
If your bareshaft isn't coming off the bow cleanly.It's likely to be in ones shooting form.Again,some designs are more forgiving than others.
I can't tell any performance difference shooting 3 under or split with any of my bows. Maybe I'm just not good enough but whatever the reason, the only difference I find at all is that I get finger pinch shooting split with short recurves. So as far as I'm concerned all bows are 3 under friendly.
Paul is right you dont have to tiller for three under. Where is your tiller at a 10",20" or 28" draw, what matters is where its at when the arrow leaves the string, so it doesnt matter if you are shooting one over or three under.They used to tiller stiffer on the bottom limb for three under by 1/4" or more, whenever I shot one I could feel the bow kick up. Perfect for me is 1/8 to even ,I've shot 3 under since the 60's ....Tim
Buy one custom that is tillered for three under.
You can adjust nock to shoot fine for (most arrows)three under if it was not designed that way. Problem in recurves is they tend to be alittle more noisy than they would tiller properly. Not a problem with longbows because the string doesn't contact the limb.
QuoteOriginally posted by Yohon:
ILF bows have the ability to adjust to the shooter rather than the other way around :thumbsup:
ILF or find a bow tillered for three under.
One other thing I'll mention is that a high brace height works best when shooting 3 under. Maybe it's just me or just coincidence but all my bows need to be toward the top of their brace height range.
One (the Kaliska) is well over the recommended range. At the recommended 6 1/2" - 6 3/4" it sounded and felt like it was being dry fired and arrows stuck in every direction but straight. Holy God it was awful! At 7 1/4" it's a whole different bow, quiet, smooth, and tuned.
Guys,
I find this thread very informative. I am new to the trad bow only been shooting 2 years. I shoot 3 under, and just recently fought with tuning bare shafts. Now I'm no pro at shooting, but I like challenges, so I try to stay at things till I get them just right, but with the bow I have seems like I hit a road block in tuning. The tail always stays a hair up bare shaft(about 1 inch at best). I moved the nock point from 1.25" to just under even to see how to get that tail down and results would get worse as soon as I left the 1/4 to 1/2 area. I also, increased the brace height with some advice from here, and it dropped the tail high from 4'' to the 1'' high spot.
Now, with fletching they are barely noticable tail high. And strange, from elevated shooting they drive right in straight. I thought it may be because I have what I consider a bottom of the line entry level bow(martin x150) new it only runs about $220. I have a friend with a black widow he is going to let me shoot once we can get together. I'm guessing another bow may more forgiving for my inconsistent form, but even with the martin i am finally getting arrows to group up 2-3 inches at 10 yards, which makes me feel better.
thanks, david
David,
An inch nock high shouldn't be a problem, provided it is a true nock high and not a false nock high caused by the arrow bouncing off the shelf. I'm sure the results you were getting at a very low nock height were false nock highs. Basically, you start at an inch high nock point, like you did, and move down. When the nock high levels off, you stop, and maybe add 1/16 back to the nock point as a cushion. As I said in my earlier post, a slight to moderate (true) nock high will not adversely affect your accuracy. Not everyone can get level bare shaft flight, for various form related reasons.
This is the biggest reason you hear soooo much about poor penetration w/ trad. gear.People buy bows because of looks or numbers they put thru a chrono.
Not only bareshafting will tune your bow and arro but it also tunes your form.If one can't bareshaft w/ consistency. They aren't getting the optimum out of their set-up.