As I am learning to shoot my new to me NM Shelton, I struggle with what is the proper or correct hand placement on my grip(up high next to shelf, down a little for feather clearance, thumb pressure or just a loose grip,,etc)...Can you tell or better yet show me what you do or how you grip your hill bow? I am used to my R/D longbows with a more locator grip...so I am struggling a little with consistence grip...
blm,
Check out this thread and the pictures I posted there. This grip works well for me and many others for ALL grip styles. I shoot Hill bows almost exclusively.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=005763#000000
Arne
I like to feel pressure on the heel [low part] of my palm. Should start to feel it as soon as you put some tension on the string......
I like a firm grip on my Big 5 and my hand is close to the shelf. I'll try and get a pic tomorrow.
I like to feel pressure on the heel [low part] of my palm. Should start to feel it as soon as you put some tension on the string......
I shoot almost identical to moebows explanation. Also very similar to Byron Fergusons teachings
Hold it like you would a girls hand that you like a lot.
You don't want to hurt her hand and yet you don't want her to get away...lol
I've also read the it's much like picking up a suitcase.
I just hold mine firm with more attention to the bottom two fingers than the upper two.
That's just what works for me.
I think it might be more helpful to check out the thread moebow posted for you.
God bless,Mudd
Find the lifeline on your palm, let the edge of the grip ride in there and place pressure with lower palm. You'll know when it's right cause you'll start getting good repeatable shots and it'll feel right. A deep wedge grip helps a lot. I had/have the same problem bow lover with the standard straight oval grips. It just takes practice pretty soon you'll be right on. I suggest shoot only the Hill for a week or two to get more used to it.
As Mudd states with his preference to attention to using the bottom two fingers, I am the polar opposite and hardly use my ring or pinky fingers at all. The point was, we are all different and you do it long enough and you'll find what works or ya
Keep the info coming, I am doing like you said Chuck but it feels different than with my other bows...Hopefully it will settle in...
NW9 has got it! Lay the grip down the lifeline of your hand close enough to the shelf that the "meat part" between thumb and index runs just up under it when there's pressure on the string. You do 'grip it' in that the fingers are wrapped round (unlike the cradling of a recurve). The bone between your second and third knuckles out on all fingers should line up down the back of the grip flush to the target (if that makes sense).
Grip strength will just settle in to what you need after a couple hundred shots - but you shouldn't be squeezing the sap outta the thing....
Enjoy your new bow!
I'm kinda like Chuck NW9, run the lifeline down the spine of the grip. I use a good bit of heel pressure, it really helped my consistency a lot. For me, it doesn't feel right until I put tension on the string and put heel pressure on it.
As Mudd says, its like picking up a suitcase, that is true for me too until I tension the string and put the heel pressure on it.
I don't do anything with my fingers, no pressure other than keep the bow from flying out of my hand, which does happen, I've grabbed it out of mid-air a few times too, looked up and the arrow went right where its supposed to...or as close as it normally does.
I wont tell you to bend your bow arm cuz everyone says "how much", just don't lock your arm straight. The heel pressure will keep you from getting your arm too straight.
Good luck and be patient, finding YOUR grip is probably the hardest part of shooting these bows. Everyone does it basically the same, but we are all different in little ways.
Eric
Got a pic???
Appears to me you are describing exactly one of the benefits of straight limbed longbows. That is, the ease of which you can grab the grip w/o setting into a saddle such as with pistol grip. Your reference is the squared arrow across the rest. As long as you can draw unencumbered, your squared reference will always be the same. That allows you to easily grip the bow anywhere. Naturally, if you grip it wrong, the stress will quickly tell on you. Otherwise, draw & shoot. IMHO, you do not need to find an EXACT grip position each time. But you definitely WILL find something very comfortable & forgiving you can rely on each shot.
Straight deep grip
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/101_0004a.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/101_0004a.jpg.html)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/101_1478.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/101_1478.jpg.html)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/101_1472.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/101_1472.jpg.html)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/101_1475.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/101_1475.jpg.html)
It takes some time to get it. Took me a while. I can now go from recurved high wrist to the Hill low wrist fairly easily.
If the NM doesn't work out shoot me a PM ;)
Thanks Bud, I think this one has found a forever home
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7449/9198552397_13f7d56970.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary2va/9198552397/)
Directly from Howard Hill on his description of the proper grip:
"you will note your thumb joint will be directly out from the center of the belly of the bow (See Illustrations)." - Howard Hill
Every illustration and existing photograph I've seen shows Howard Hill using the exact same grip as he describes above. This is taught by Wesley, is the way you'd naturally grip a suitcase, and is the way you'd naturally grip a pistol. This aligns your wrist and maximizes natural bone support. Hill was very specific to note the "thumb joint" and not the knuckle.
Howard had it figured out extremely well. Grab a straight handle Hill bow exactly as Howard described with the bow hanging from your side(pic). Experiment with the following:
First, Loosen the fingers in your grip and you will notice that the tip of the lower limb, pointed to the rear, will lower to the ground so that the bow is no longer parallel to the ground. With loose fingers, you will maintain good contact with the thumb and index finger around the top of the straight grip, but the lower part of the grip will pull away from the heel of your hand because the bow's center (balance point) is lower on the grip. Now, tighten the grip with your lower fingers and notice how the bow handle pulls up into the heel of your grip and the bow is now balanced and horizontal to the ground. Getting the bow into the heel of the hand is important as this centers your grip within the balance point of the bow. I'm of the opinion that some of the handshock felt and complained about is actually user enhanced (induced) as a result of NOT getting the heel down when shooting the straight grip. Without getting the heel down, you are choking your grip up above center causing the limbs to return out of time. This will greatly increase vibration felt throughout the grip.
The above Hill teachings aligns the bones of the wrist making for a solid bow hand directly behind the bows center.
There is an old target trick for shooting lighter Hill bows where you shoot the bow more like a locator grip by choking the bow with your thumb and top fingers while tucking your bottom finger(s) between the bow handle and your grip to fill the void. This works as you are using your bottom finger(s) to artificially create a locator grip and you are keeping pressure on the handle at the heel of your hand. But in my opinion, this is a poor technique to use for hunting.
If I may pass on some added advice, it is very important that you keep your bow shoulder down and back to prevent long term shoulder injuries. If you pay attention, you'll notice posted pics and videos of archers who demonstrate techniques that highlight Hill form, with the exception, the bow is of such weight that the shoulder is forced up and is compressed while at full draw, or the shoulder is not down and back into the socket as a means to increase draw length. Such technique is proven to place an archer on the fast track towards impingement and long term injuries. Keep your bow shoulder down and back or you may very well reduce the number of years that you can shoot a bow if you live to get old.
Best :)
I grip just like Bud's pics but I use the top edge of my grip material under my thumb to get consistant hand placement. It also puts my index finger right up under the shelf.
Squeeze too hard in the wrong spot and the bow wont do what is natural to it! Let it come back into your hand as you draw then just get a hold of it...
I agree with what everyone else has said. I'd add to listen to your bow. One of the things I like about a Hill style bow is it gives you instant feed back.
Your bow will tell you how she likes to be held/shot just listen to it. Take it out and get to know it. Find out what it really likes and stick with it.
Today, I shot the 105@30 Bama Tribute that I got from Joe G. I was only pulling it to 28, about 95#, cause I'm not quite strong enough yet to 'stretch out' as my last heavy was about 5-6 months ago. It's the heaviest Hill I've ever shot. Lemme tell you when you shoot a bow that heavy you don't have a choice but to hold it in a way that works/is correct. Maybe that's why Howard shot heavy? LOL!
I cant wait to get to the yard and shoot tonight... will let you know how it goes...thanks for all the input...
Get a copy of Asbell's "Instinctive Shooting II". Excellent description of long bow grip. Whatever you decide on, do the same thing every time. Good luck and good shooting. :archer2:
Gary has it and it is a great illistration to use. The thumb joint that lines up with the belly is the first thumb joint, not the middle thumb joint. Floating a bow out that far on the thumb, as some have recommended, can strain ones thumb and also give a floppy base for the bow to function on. We spend most of the time out hunting holding the bow, not shooting it. One of the biggest advantages of the Hill style is that the way we hold the bow when not shooting is pretty much the same as when we are shooting. It all allows a natural transition to get into a shot. At times, I think it is too easy to get lost in the debate over fundmentalisms, when doing what is most natural is all that is required. Hill and Schulz went to great lengths to describe that which is natural, I suppose to distinguish the basic Hill technique from the flood of information that did not apply to shooting a longbow.
Began with the hold it like a suitcase position and actually let my two lower fingers be loose and yes the lower tip tipped toward the ground. so I wrestled how close to the shelf to put my hand and I decide to have just the edge of the grip above my hand...
So the shooting began...it took a few arrows to even come close to comfortable but I noticed, no pain in my hand, elbow or shoulder...
I shot two dozen shots, each time going through each step, hold like a suitcase, loose fingers, thumb joint in position, draw, and release...
I am getting there slowly I think...
thanks for all the help
Glad to hear it, keep at it. It just takes time but I believe eventually these bows become like a pair of old worn go-to boots. I actually sold all my Hill bows for a time earlier this year but lately have come home again, I just can't stay away from them. The simplicity and elegance just calls to me like so many others here.
Find the balance point of your bow and center the pressure from the heal of your thumb and try gripping with the first tree fingers of your hand. Mainly the first two fingers should grip the tightest. In other words I apply all the pressure at the balance point of the bow. This allows the bow to equalize the inertia distributed from top and bottom limbs, which I feel is paramount for consistent shooting.If your gripping too far down the handle, the bottom limb will be doing the Lions share of the work. This causes the bow to jump off balance upon release.Some bows like a lower handle pressure and some don't. I find my Hill bows like a balance point grip. I hope this helps in addition to the other excellent advice given above.
Picture holding a heavy drill or pistol.....this will also help you with the slight bend in your bow arm you need as well as shoulder position.
QuoteOriginally posted by swampthing:
Let it come back into your hand as you draw then just get a hold of it... [/QB]
Couldn't have said it better ! :readit:
I hold the bow as moeboe does . I curl my small finger up on the grip. it works well for me I shot a 6 inch group at 10 yrds. a big deal fo me because I switched to leftythis year .
My grip looks about like Bud B. I grip very firmly, but not a true choke hold. A firm grip down on the heel of the hand deadens the bow in my hand. I have several Hill bows using both straight and dish grips, and I hold them all the same way.
Update....I now possess his Shelton and he possesses my Canyon Archery Traditions RD longbow. I think we both are happy. I have dibs on the CAT if he ever gets rid of it ;) Heted to see it go but I shoot Hills more nowadays. The CAT was a rack queen here for me. BLM will go after hogs with it :thumbsup: