In the Presence of Death
Sep 19, 2013
In this day and age here's a guy who "gets it". I don't know who the author is- but I read it on F&S
One of the things I talked about on this season's Gun Nuts is an (apparently) common ritual on many of the TV hunting shows. When hunter and guide (or whoever) walk up on some poor dead beast the likes of which you and I will never see, and which they have killed inside of 26 minutes, they exchange High Fives and a hearty "Yay, Hah", like one of them just rode the late Bodacious for 8 seconds and lived to tell about it.
Now call me old, mean, and cranky, but I think this shows about the same attitude toward animals as the kids who think that meat comes from the supermarket wrapped in cellophane. It does not. It comes from an animal who spent its last moments alive bawling in terror in a slaughterhouse.
If you are one of the High Five set, a reminder: The animal at your feet over which you exchange hand slaps is not there voluntarily. It spent its last day on earth hoping at whatever level animals hope that it would live another day. Given a choice, it would not have given up its life to make you joyful.
Other, very diverse, hunting cultures do not slap hands and yodel. I've seen Bakwena tribesmen in Botswana throw a handful of sand on the hooves of a departed beast and murmur a prayer thanking it for the gift of its life. In Germany, at the end of a hunt, there is an elaborate torchlight ceremony in which the day's bag is laid out in rows, and honored en masse.
I have nothing against a handshake and a "Good shot," or something like that, but it should be tempered by the realization that being alive is something of a miracle and that death is the opposite of a miracle.
In other words, show a little respect.
Very well said!
That's how I feel and believe.
Thanks Ray.
I like that!
Bisch
Great minds...
I will not watch that kind of nonsense. IMHO, it's way disrespectful. And for the chosen few the likes of hunt celebrities to "smoke" one with such a great shot.., I have not seen it just yet. They hunt pick of the litter sites over whatever draw products are spread or grown. Maybe I'm just jealous, or old, or respectful, or whatever; but, I know of Indian respect for animal life they take to live by. Good enough for me.
That was written by David E. Petzal. I've enjoyed reading his stuff for years in F&S. He has a way with words for sure and this article is no exception. Thanks for sharing it.
Yep, totally agree! When I see that, I always feel there is a lack of respect shown for the animal.
Salute Ray. My sentiments exactly.
Be it a frog or a deer or a bear or a bumblebee, you have stopped the flowing mystery of something set in motion by the hand of your Creator, who makes all things ornate because He loves them, even us. We are all aware that the world is constructed in such a way that life feeds on life, but showing no respect and whooping it up makes the whole affair rather tawdry. It is a garish and shallow behavior in the face of something honorable and sacred. It is the trashing of a gift.
Thanks for the post, Ray.
Killdeer
Well said!!!
Thanks for posting this.
Killdeer, you hit the nail squarely on the head with your comment.
Thank you for posting this.
Great point. I for one, hope that I never get so calloused to the taking of life, that I forget what has truly occurred. It's not something to be taken for granted. I also hope that when my first happens, I don't become so excited that the celebration of "victory" is disrespectful in any way.
Well said, by all above. I too, thank you for posting this.
Amen. I prefer the custom (Native American, I believe) of placing a twig in its mouth and a prayer of thanks, that I may be found worthy of taking its life.
Thanks for sharing!
My sentiments exactly.
QuoteOriginally posted by Killdeer:
Be it a frog or a deer or a bear or a bumblebee, you have stopped the flowing mystery of something set in motion by the hand of your Creator, who makes all things ornate because He loves them, even us. We are all aware that the world is constructed in such a way that life feeds on life, but showing no respect and whooping it up makes the whole affair rather tawdry. It is a garish and shallow behavior in the face of something honorable and sacred. It is the trashing of a gift.
Thanks for the post, Ray.
Killdeer
Well said Killdeer!
Very well said. Thanks for bring it to us.
I'm always alone at those moments and am now going through a "what have I just done?" thing. I KNOW what I've just done, exactly what I set out to do.
BUT. These beautiful wild creatures deserve total reverence and respect for ALL they give us, in the end, their very life.
Olddogrib
That practice might also be German in origin- and probably many cultures had a similar gesture of respect, but I know it as German- in Germany it's called Less Bissen- last bite. It's a special way of saying thanks and respect for sure.
Decidedly better than " I put the smack down on that freak nasty!!!!"
Tim-Thanks for letting me know who that was- I've read his writing before. You're right he certainly has the knack for crystallizing a sentiment!
Great thread!
Thank you to those who contributed in making it so.
Life is a sacred thing and should be valued as such.
It's no small thing to bring it to it's end, just as it is also no small matter to wound something.
I've read too many times "I didn't hit exactly where I wanted and I'm sure it will survive."
Well survive it might but in the mean time it has to live with that pain.
I understand that "stuff" will happen but I sure as hell ain't taking it lightly, the suffering of one that I caused.
It usually takes me some time to get through that mental process.
I am always reminding myself..."if I can't do this 99% positive, then I don't take the shot.
After all, it is a living,breathing,feeling animal and not one of my stuff animals sitting on my back stop.
Please excuse my rant.
God bless,Mudd
PS: Hunt hard, Hunt smart and consider your shots.
Hey Ray. Thanks for passing on Petzal's words. A great frame of mind to start the hunting season.
Well said. A message that every young (and old) hunter needs to hear! :thumbsup:
Amen
Exactly why hunting shows make me sick.
Amen
X2 what Ray and Killdeer said!
Thanks Ray & Killdeer,
I save a copy along with a similar article on "Why I Hunt". Very good words/material to pass on especially to those that are Not diehard anti-hunters but just asking Why!
tippit
And that is exactly why I don't watch that garbage, or flock to those morons like so many do at "sportsman" shows.
The reverence for the life you take should be an automatic thing.
I'm reminded of a time when my daughter (age 5, I believe) was with me when I was butchering that seasons' deer. There was still the little tufts of fur remaining on the legs just above the hoofs. She petted that fur and said, "don't worry deer, we'll eat you.". I had been (and am still) teaching her the importance of being a good steward of the Earth and the creatures that I believe God gave us dominion over, and asks us to be rsponsible stewards of. She gets it. Never, never should we take a life lightly, but in reverence and awe and thankfullness.
I was watching a show a while back and the professional hunter shot a big buck with a collar and ear tag on. Shockingly, he was so excited. It's funny, I've hunted almost 50 yrs and I don't ever remember seeing a deer with those things on. I'll take a "naturally" harvested doe kill as a real trophy, give thanks, and enjoy the meat and experience. Peace!
This is great and very well put. I couldn't agree more. thanks!
QuoteOriginally posted by Longrifleman:
And that is exactly why I don't watch that garbage, or flock to those morons like so many do at "sportsman" shows.
Or buy any of the products they are pushing with these programs. Send them a message where it counts. Don't but their products. After all that is the real reason they want you to watch, which makes the manner in which the animal is taken all the more insidious.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Hammond:
In the Presence of Death
Sep 19, 2013
In this day and age here's a guy who "gets it". I don't know who the author is- but I read it on F&S
One of the things I talked about on this season's Gun Nuts is an (apparently) common ritual on many of the TV hunting shows. When hunter and guide (or whoever) walk up on some poor dead beast the likes of which you and I will never see, and which they have killed inside of 26 minutes, they exchange High Fives and a hearty "Yay, Hah", like one of them just rode the late Bodacious for 8 seconds and lived to tell about it.
Now call me old, mean, and cranky, but I think this shows about the same attitude toward animals as the kids who think that meat comes from the supermarket wrapped in cellophane. It does not. It comes from an animal who spent its last moments alive bawling in terror in a slaughterhouse.
If you are one of the High Five set, a reminder: The animal at your feet over which you exchange hand slaps is not there voluntarily. It spent its last day on earth hoping at whatever level animals hope that it would live another day. Given a choice, it would not have given up its life to make you joyful.
Other, very diverse, hunting cultures do not slap hands and yodel. I've seen Bakwena tribesmen in Botswana throw a handful of sand on the hooves of a departed beast and murmur a prayer thanking it for the gift of its life. In Germany, at the end of a hunt, there is an elaborate torchlight ceremony in which the day's bag is laid out in rows, and honored en masse.
I have nothing against a handshake and a "Good shot," or something like that, but it should be tempered by the realization that being alive is something of a miracle and that death is the opposite of a miracle.
In other words, show a little respect.
It's sad that this even needs to be said. I agree completely with the blog writer. I don't watch the hunting shows, too much of the immature behavior he mentioned for me. "Smoked him", dancing around like children, mugging the camera, and the one I really hate..."he took a dirt nap".
Maybe I'm just old but it didn't used to be like that. TV has really dumbed down the whole hunting experience in my opinion. Unfortunately I think a lot of younger hunters fall for it and think that's how you are supposed to behave.
I totally agree with you, Ray. That is one reason I never watch TV hunting shows. I don't kill a lot of stuff, but when I do it is a moment of reflection that includes only God, the animal taken, and myself. I may take pictures and spin a better tale around the camp fire than the facts actually support; however, the actual moment of the kill is very private. We should always give thanks in a solemn manner.
The garbage that is put on the outhouse channel and others like it are disgusting. I absolutely can't stand the "I smoked him" attitude. I hate the idea that "hunters" have that you are only as good of a hunter as the money you spend on your equipment. It makes me sick just like the rest of you. I was at Walmart just the other day and I was looking at the archery department looking of they might by chance have a kids sized shooting glove for my neighbors little boy and I seen a guy looking at some lighted nocks. He turned around and I knew him actually we were friends when we were kids. I said dang those nocks are expensive for just nocks. He said yeah but they are worth it. I said I guess and looked at the small broad head selection and he pointed at the latest flippy out mechanical things and said man I can't wait to start shooting them. I asked him what bow he shot and it named off one of the big time names in compounds. I just said oh, yeah a lot of people shoot them. The he started bragging on how he could shoot a baseball sized group at 50 yards with no problem. I said hum that's a LONG ways to be shooting at a deer good luck on your season and I walked off. I think "traditional" hunting is an attitude and a way of thinking and respect more than what equipment you carry into the woods.
I am native american and what we do here when we kill a deer is face the east and have a smoke and thank the creator and the deer for providing us. If you dont smoke, then we sprinkle some tabaco on the ground. Also we try and take the hide and put it in a running stream because we were taught that by doing that, that the deer's spirit returns. These type things are reminders for us to show respect to all living things. Except maybe for the canned type hunts that you often see on TV shows, being in the woods and hunting does by itself heal somewhat, even the most unguided person. Today many people take up hunting after hearing the talk from others at work or wherever. Years back most of us learned hunting from our dad, an uncle, or a grandpa and they taught us respect, something that is seldom done today.My earliest memory of hunting as a young boy, was my grandpa and uncle taking me rabbit hunting in the hills in east tenn with a dozen beagle hounds. We would sit on a hill top and listen to the dogs run while the men told stories. I asked grandpa why he didnt bring a gun so we could shoot some. He told me its because we had meat at home and there was no need to kill any rabbits right now. Thats something that always stuck with me.
Great stuff Ray. And it is exactly why I don't kill things that I am not going to eat (damage causing varmints excepted). For example.....I don't shoot the red squirrels that bedevil us while on stand. Lots of guys do, and thats ok. But I can't bring myself to kill something that is just doing what he is supposed to....
Great stuff Ray. And it is exactly why I don't kill things that I am not going to eat (damage causing varmints excepted). For example.....I don't shoot the red squirrels that bedevil us while on stand. Lots of guys do, and thats ok. But I can't bring myself to kill something that is just doing what he is supposed to....
Great stuff Ray. And it is exactly why I don't kill things that I am not going to eat (damage causing varmints excepted). For example.....I don't shoot the red squirrels that bedevil us while on stand. Lots of guys do, and thats ok. But I can't bring myself to kill something that is just doing what he is supposed to....
there are a few shows, like Jim Shockey's shows, and the Cody guy from Canada I think it's called Live to Hunt or something like that- I DVR and watch each week.
They're not bowhunting, but Jim Shockey examines the local populace, culture, and food, and gives you enough of a glimpse of the places he goes to make you feel like you're there, and he seems genuinely nice.
You don't see any of that crap on their shows...there's a maturity there thats missing from most shows.
Thanks Ray for sharing. The OP reflects my thoughts to a T.
The woods are in my opinion are a sanctuary of sorts, not a place for whooping and hollering and such.
QuoteOriginally posted by solobowhunter:
Thanks Ray for sharing. The OP reflects my thoughts to a T.
The woods are in my opinion a sanctuary of sorts, not a place for whooping and hollering and such.
sorry DP
Like someone mentioned before, lots of young people watching these shows think that is how you are supposed to act.
Reminds me of what an old preacher once said. " what this generation tolerates, the next generation accepts "
Nice comments on a cogent point. I had the flu and between heaving, I was watching the history channel. Chasing Tail was on, talk about disrespectful to our way of life, hunting is not just a sport. Most folks here respect the hunted.
Nice reflection Killy
If I am the only example of a bowhunter a non-hunter sees what did my actions just say to that person. Gratitued & respect for the wildlife we protect and hunt or cocky little %@^#!
Great stuff. Thanks for posting.
Amen to that Ray! My exact sentiments! The animal, whatever species is just trying to survive, so i do not take the Life or Death choice frivolously! :notworthy:
Exactly that. :clapper:
>>>>----------->
Luke
I have hunted all of my life, raised livestock, and slaughtered animals that I have raised. I have been raised to eat anything I kill, and I do enjoy the harvest. Regardless of the method, there is always a feeling of regret as the life leaves an animal. I don't want to ever loose that feeling. Simply put, it's a sacred moment that demands self examination and reflection.
Excellent, Ray,
One of the reasons I will no longer watch the shows on the Outdoor Channel, Pursuit, Etc. etc.
The other being that most of it is fake, and the numerous tasteless commercials are hideous.
I know a few industry insiders/professional hunters, and was once chastised by one of them when I would not jump around, act like an idiot and join them in a made-up showing of excitement over the game I had just harvested.
"Can't you act like you are having fun" was the question, " so it will look good on camera?"
All of this just portrays hunting in the wrong light.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
Irv Eichorst
www.truesouthadventures.com (http://www.truesouthadventures.com)
Great stuff. :thumbsup:
Hear, hear!!!!
I also can't understand the opposite. Guy takes a beautiful animal and is not excited in the least. Like he is just a stone cold hitman or something.
I agree with all that has been said. I have been trying to teach my son who is just starting to hunt that if we are going to take an animals life so that we can have it for food, the very least that we can do in return is to do everything in our power to make a clean shot so that it dies quickly with as little suffering as possible and to be respectful of it once it is dead.
Bear Heart, I agree completely. While Ted Nugent typically tends to take his celebrating to the point that it becomes distasteful and disrespectful, he said something on his show one time that has stuck with me. He had killed a doe and was excitedly telling the story back at camp to the other hunters as if it had been the largest buck in the existence of the world. At the end, he made the comment that any hunter who doesn't get nervous/excited on every single shot, regardless of gender/size/etc., doesn't have any business killing an animal. I couldn't agree more with that statement.
Killdeer, would you mind if I shared your comment, or a paraphrase of it on FB? There are quite a few people on there that it would do some good.
Matt Toms
QuoteOriginally posted by Wallis Wetzel:
I'm reminded of a time when my daughter (age 5, I believe) was with me when I was butchering that seasons' deer. There was still the little tufts of fur remaining on the legs just above the hoofs. She petted that fur and said, "don't worry deer, we'll eat you."....
This reminds me of the time when I was 10, I told my dad that I just shot a crow for fun. My dad made me retrieved it, cooked it and ate the whole thing. That crow tasted BAD. His reason? Since I took that crow's life, I had to honor it by not wasting it. I learned my lesson that day and still live and hunt by it.
This is exactly what I've been trying to get across to my son. He is 13 and had been hunting with me for the last few years. He is unfortunatley caught up in all the "hunting" shows and I am constantly trying to remind him that something gave it's life for his. I'm sure he gets it, I'm sure he's excited, but it is a constant battle against the "cool" hunters that I fight. Thank you for posting this.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Matt, my comments here are public. If you use it, please use an exact quote.
Oh, and thank you! :)
Killdeer
Thanks killdeer.
My grandmother was a Blackfoot and she taught me to respect all living things and they are here to be used not abused . If she were to catch me rejoicing over a kill I think I would be in for another of her lessons to correct my direction .
Jehovah Jireh :pray:
Let's also remember that the size of the animal has nothing to do with the amount of respect owed.
I am normally doing all I can to swallow the lump in my throat when I walk up to deer, or pick up a little grey squirrel..
I know a lot of other hunters my age, still love to hunt, but the kill is now the least of the goals set.
I think that most of the shows now on television for hunting are one big advertisement. If you use their products you too can kill animals this size.
When one show made the content a actual hunting competition show, I thought that was the beginning of the end for hunting.
Slow motion pass though shots, with blood pouring out and the animal struggling to survive, made me want to hunt less. I started to get disgusted and couldn't watch them anymore. They became more and more graphic. I started to root for the deer.
I love animals. I have 2 dogs, 3 horses, 16 chickens and only God knows how many rabbits. If I saw a man abusing an animal, my wife would have to get bail money to get me out of jail. If one of the farm animals dies, my wife makes me bury it. I am surprised she hasn't gotten a priest for last rights - yet!
Yet I hunt. It is in my genes. I don't understand why, but it is one of the greatest pleasures in my life.
Leading up to the kill, it is the most exciting thing I have done. After the shot, there is a let down in excitement, then anticipation and then anxiety worrying if we will retrieve the animal. Upon retrieval, there is joy, followed by thankfulness and then remorse. There is always respect.
Respect doesn't just mean after retrieval.
Respect is ensuring you limit your shots to a range you are confident you can hit what you aim at.
Respect is in preparation.
Respect is competing with yourself hunting and not trying to score points to gain admiration of others.
Respect is wildlife management, improving habitat.
Respect is abiding by game laws.
Respect is working as hard as you can to recover the game.
And yes respect is being thankful and remorseful upon recovery.
Gil
I don't think I could put it better than some of you particularly Killdeer. I totally get the sentiment that most of us share, and I live the highs and lows of the waves of different emotions each time I take a life.
With that said, there is some of the blog and some comments that always come up on this TV hunting posts that tend to lump a lot of folks on TV together unfairly, and in my mind go just a little too far the other way. I don't have cable and don't watch a lot of outdoor shows, but I have seen the stuff he was talking about, and I don't care for it when it is fake or way over the top. However, I have seen some outward expression of the inward adrenalin rush many of us feel after a shot. I know when I kill something I thank the good Lord and don't jump around or anything like that, but I can tell you I am coming unglued inside. I have see the honest joy in finding an animal that may have been feared lost or is truly the largest animal of the species that hunter has ever shot. You can tell what is staged and what is real most times. I don't have an issue with someone being excited and letting it out a little. I am not that type in general, but others wear their emotions on the outside. Nothing wrong with that. You can be very excited and let it out without being disrespectful. I just don't like to lump everyone that doesn't break down and cry or do a death ritual into the same camp as the clowns.
I also know that most times the TV hunters don't set down and kill something in 26 minutes. Most travel all over, speed month away from home, set in stands for sometimes weeks for a shot. Sure they hunt the best places, but even hunting can be a hard work and carry all the feelings, responsibilities and stresses of it particularly when you have to get the footage to make a living.
"It comes from an animal that spent its last moments alive bawling in terror in a slaughterhouse." We all need to know where our meat comes from. We should not be flippant about an animal's death. I really feel for the animal, but everything dies and there are few good easy ways to do that for an animal. My issue with the statement is that it starts to assign too much mental awareness and intellect to animals. Let's not get all Bambi movie here or start going PETA. Animals don't watch TV or visit slaughterhouses. They don't read books and no one explains what is about to happen to them. They don't tell stories about what happened to grandma with the evil hunters killed her. Most don't even know what happened to them when it does, and the end is easier than it is for most of us humans. Wild animals pretty much live in a natural fear every day if they are a pray animal. That is their job and they don't seem to have emotional breakdowns over it.
I think for me I will simply say thank you Lord for your provision and say "don't worry deer, we'll eat you.", Wallis Wetzel daughter.
Nice, Thanks for sharing Ray.
LD
Thanks for sharing ray! Great post!
I can see that I am in good company when I read this thread and it one of the reasons I love this Traditional crew. There are a lot of emotions running at the time of the kill (including joy) but I really feel respect is paramount. I found this quote from Swamp Preacher was one of many comments that rang true...
"Regardless of the method, there is always a feeling of regret as the life leaves an animal. I don't want to ever loose that feeling. Simply put, it's a sacred moment that demands self examination and reflection."
When I killed my first buck and sat down in that draw as the sun went down it was a really emotional moment. When that animal died right then and there, I knew just how sacred all life is. I was really filled with gratitude.
Thanks for the great post, Ray!