I need a 720ish grain arrow 28" bop for a 72@27 Hill bow. I draw to 27". I want 10gpp. If wood, I prefer 11/32.
Cedar is out I'm guessing. Not sure if Douglas Fir is the answer.
Need ideas on soaking arrows for weight gain or other ideas to get a 10gpp arrow.
Aluminum and carbon are not out of the picture.
What are your experiences with other woods? Hickory? Ash? Sitka Spruce? Poplar? Weight I can expect from these?
Sponsors?
Thanks.
Pope and Young used white birch. Of the heavier hardwood shafts it is my favorite.
Never considered that wood. Thanks Bill.
Ash
QuoteOriginally posted by gringol:
Ash
Your experience? gpi? anything?
I had some around 700 grains in a 70-75 spine. Very tough. Dpnt recall exactbweight or gpi, but I think they were above 17 gpi. They don't stay as straight as fir and poc, but they're much better than hickory imo.
Ash comes in a variety of weights some really heavy and some light as cedar. You can get top quality shafting if you check around. I used to get Ash from Raptor that was super straight and stayed that way. Like Bill says white birch is real good too.
I used ash in the past and thought well of it. It is heavy and tough.
ChuckC
Going to a heavier point weight will help quite a bit. With a 125 gr point, you would need to start with about a 610-620 gr full length shaft. With a 200 gr point you could go with about a 550 gr shaft of a higher spine. 600+ is pushing the envelope for a 70 lb fir shaft, but a 550 in a 75-79 is pretty doable. Fir makes a really great shooting arrow and I believe you would like how they perform with the heavier points, esp with a heavy arrow. Surewood should have these in 11/32, but there really isn't that much difference going to a 23/64, less than .016 dia" or .008" radius. An average human hair is .003".
i had some 11/32 douglas firs from surewood in 80-85# spine that finished around 700 grains. they will send you the weight you want within 10 grains as long as they have it... so far i haven't asked for anything they haven't delivered.
Good to hear about Surewoods.
Thanks for all the input so far.
I was thinking a 16-17 gpi shaft in the right spine might be the ballpark I'm looking for.
Fletcher,
I have no experience with 23/64. I was wondering about points, i.e. 11/32, and how they'd work on 23/64 shafts? All my glue on points/BHs are 11/32 or 5/16.
I'm thinking the easiest route would be surewood douglas fir. Will have to play around a bit with arrow and point weight but that's fun! I'm guessing something 90-95 with point weight to tune would be real close.
ash or maple wil get you close...or try woody weights on your cedar or fir ...they glue on the end and then you glue your broadhead onto them....they come in weights from 75 grain to 200 grains.....also gives you weight forward and great penetration,,,,good luck
I agree with Biathlonman. 90-95 surewoods and some 200 grain Kodiaks should be right in that ballpark. Of course that will really depend on the specific shafts you get. Call Surewood and have them find you some dense ones.
For carbon, try the Arrow Dynamics Hammerheads. A full length Hammerhead weighs right at 500 grains with the aluminum insert. Shortened to 28" it would probably weigh 450. Add a 100 grain insert and a 175-200 grain woodsman elite and you'll have one heck of a setup.
You could also get there with a GT 7595.
I''ll go carbon before woody weights. Too many things to try to line up straight.
Thanks tho.
Keep any unmentioned ideas coming and thank you all :)
Kevin forester at froester woods shafts will have what you need
Forrester seems to have all bases covered for heavy wood shafts!!!
Don't be afraid of wood weights.
heat, glue, install, done. they work great.
BUT,
when you can buy a 300+gn head, they are prolly not needed.
ash is great but can take work to get straight. Stays once done though,IME.
I like the birch that Bill C mentions. All of the old timers used it and when I had some back in the 90's I really liked it. Need to find more.
I really like the surewoods. Great arrow shaft. If I didn't want to use birch that is what I would use.
A nice heavy spined shaft with a 200gn ACE or Grizzly on the end will get you what you need. 700gn is pretty easy I think.
With carbon, I find it hard to get an arrow much under 700gn and its easy to go well over that.
Good luck Bud, You gonna make some holes on both sides this year!
11/32 points work fine with 23/64 shafts, they just leave a little of the shaft taper showing. I have a shaft tapering rig and will taper the point end about 4 inches to slightly under 11/32 for a perfect fit, but it isn't necessary or important. 23/64 field points are easy to come by, but Tuffheads are the only true 23/64 ferrule broadheads I know of. You could do a lot worse than a Tuffhead.
I'll send a PM.
What about maple or hickory shafts? They could possibly even be tapered and still achieve the desired weight.
Bud B,
i have no experience with wood, but as far as carbon goes, you can make an arrows WHATEVER weight you want it to! I can literally make a 27gpi arrow(bareshaft: no insert, or point)if i wanted to. Goldtip Heavy Hunter arrows are around 15gpi. With Goldtip arrows you can buy weight tubes and can be 3,5, or 8 gpi. Plus you have 100 grain inserts and inserts weights that go up to 50 grains. So if you wanted, you could have a 1000 grain arrow. You also better be shooting a 1000 pound bow! ;) If you decide to do the goldtip route, i have some weight tubes i would gladly trade for anything you would offer.
Daniel
I have some hickory shafts but have no clue the spine.
I need to break down and build the spine tester I have planned or just buy the Ace one.
I've got something in the works.
I very much appreciate the replies and support shown in achieving my quest.
Many thanks tradgang.
Bud: If you know the spine you need I'll check and see what I have. I have ash, birch, and maybe even some maple. Depends on the spine. I'll treat you right.
You can get up into those mass weights with Surewood douglas fir. Do you know the point weight you want to shoot?
fletcher is helping me with a few test arrows. :)
Many many thanks for all the help. You guys would not believe the helpful PMs I have gotten in addition to the responses here.
Again, many, many thanks!!!
Love the folks/users here on tradgang!!!!! :thumbsup:
sent you a pm.
If you want carbon, AD Trads are 11 gpi and the AD Hammerheads or even heavier.
Bud,
I have an 81 pound hill style and also draw 27 inches...here is what I did...
I built out the strike plate just a little with a piece of leather, then got some 80-85 surewoods.
I jumped up one spine group, then put on a 200 grain Ace broadhead....the finished arrows weigh just under 80 grains...probly right at 770 or so...
And its a readily available spine...in a super tuff shaft that never needs straightening, at least not in the short 3 years that I've been shooting them.
I also took some and soaked them in Danish oil in 3 inch pvc tubes for 5 days. They took 10 days to dry, hung up by clothes pins in my garage. They gained about 80 grains of weight. Those finished arrows weigh a good 850 grains and they hit like a 300 win mag......
Good luck!
PM replied. Thank you Danny.
Excellent tip Russ. Many thanks Sir!!
Bud B., Surewood Bob here to let you know what we have. Right
now since 11/32" dia. is about 99% of our business, that is what
we are stocking. We have a good supply of fir clear up to 105-110# spine. We are just low on 100-105#. With our wood, the mass weight increases proportionally with the spine. It is almost a
straight line on a graph. Higher spine equals higher mass weight
and in general higher quality of wood. Our 100# plus shafts are
some of the tightest grain, and most beautiful wood we have
acquired. Hope this helps! Bob M.
Thank you Bob. Fletcher is working on three test arrows for me made of Doug Fir. If what we have come up with works, and I feel Rick's expertise will play well here, I'll be in touch :)
(or Fletcher will be on my behalf ;) )
Fletcher came thru with some very nice test arrows. 69, 76, 79, 82 pounders. Grain weight at 680ish range.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/101_1481.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/101_1481.jpg.html)
On a whim I tried some 30.5" 2219s I had and put some 200 grain points with them. They come in at 700gr.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/101_1493.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/101_1493.jpg.html)
It's nice to have these kinds of problems ;)
I may drop 1.5" on the 2219s and jump to 225 gr points.
I read an article about soaking hardwood shafts in Danish oil (TBM probably). They are then waterproofed and add some weight. I've done it with poplar shafts for kids arrows.
I use a CX 350 cut to 30 1/2 BOP, 100 grain brass insert and a 300 gr tip, total arrow weight of 780
I don't know about woods much at all, but for carbons it's hard to beat the arrow dynamics shafting you would want either the hammerhead or hammerhead heavy though I would think.
A doz Surewood Doug Fir shafts (500 plus grains each) are headed my way. Thanks Bob and Steve.
Gonna weigh them when they come in and likely soak'em to boost weight and then the game is on to make some arras ;)