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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: DanielB89 on September 17, 2013, 08:24:00 PM

Title: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 17, 2013, 08:24:00 PM
I am having problems with my broadheads.  I feel like my problem is that my arrows aren't 'perfectly' spined for my bow.  

When i shoot my field tips, they fly great, even at long distances (40 yards), but when i shoot my muzzy 3 blade 125 grains, from 40 yards they are not consistent at all.  

My bow: R/d longbow i build 2 years ago.  Comes in right at #58 @ 29.  My arrows are Ted Nugent zebra striped 5575's cut to 30.5" with 100 grain brass inserts installed.  I have shot with as much as 275 up front and as little as 130.  Can't seem to get them to fly perfectly.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  

Daniel
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Todd Cook on September 17, 2013, 08:39:00 PM
If the bow is not cut to center, I would say the arrows are to stiff. Make sure your draw length is actually 29. Not saying it's not, but some times drawlength is shorter than you think. Muzzy's on carbon usually fly real well.

Make sure your release is good. Form troubles really show up with broadheads.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 17, 2013, 08:42:00 PM
well, i actually think i draw past 29 because the arrows are 30.5 and my knuckle touched one of the broadheads today while shooting.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Bobaru on September 17, 2013, 08:52:00 PM
Probably the wrong spine/head weight...

When testing a new bow or new arrows, I always put about 2 bare shafts in with my fletched arrows.  Then I shoot different distances and use different weight heads.  That, for me, usually gets me close on spine.  Then I follow up with broadheads about a month before the hunting season.  

I hope that helps.  ...  Several other things you can do to tune as well.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: kbetts on September 17, 2013, 08:59:00 PM
Muzzys don't always fly well.  I've seen it a lot with wheel bows.  Typically it can be tuned but sometimes not.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: JamesV on September 17, 2013, 09:28:00 PM
If you are using straight fletch with broadheads it will make the arrows plane.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 17, 2013, 10:27:00 PM
I am using a slight left helical.  I will say that it is not as much as i would like it to be but it is what i have.  

**Update**
Well i noticed that my shelf was not cut back to past center so i sanded some on it and got it much closer.  Now that arrows are hitting on the same plane diagonally, but the broadheads are hitting about 5" lower than the field tips.  

What it looks like to me is that for some reason the nocks are kicking up a little and the broadhead steers the shots low.  

Any suggestions?  I have kind of messed with the nock height, but i am no expert so i would like some suggestions.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 17, 2013, 10:28:00 PM
also when the arrows are in flight, i can hear them the whole way to the target, i'm assuming that means they are not flying perfectly straight.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: ChuckC on September 17, 2013, 10:55:00 PM
When you say they don't fly perfectly. .  what do you mean ?  How are they not perfect ?

What type and size fletch are you using ?

ChuckC
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Looper on September 18, 2013, 02:10:00 AM
I'd recommend going to this link:  http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html
and learn as much as you can about tuning. Most of your questions will be answered. As far as noise goes, a broadhead with holes in the blades is going to be a lot noisier than a solid blade.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: JimB on September 18, 2013, 02:27:00 AM
I agree about studying that tuning information.Always remember to only change ONE thing at a time.With 100 gr inserts,you may have too much weight up front,depending on how the sight window is cut.A standard insert and then going through various point weights may help.There may be a nocking point height issue as well but only change ONE thing at a time.

You might ask Shawn Leonard for suggestions about point weight.Maybe he'll chime in.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Charlie Lamb on September 18, 2013, 08:32:00 AM
Make sure your broadheads are on perfectly straight... stand the arrow on it's point and give it a spin. If you see ANY wobble where the shaft meets the broadhead fix it.

A poorly mounted broadhead won't fly well and will be noisier than otherwise. All the adjustment in the world of nocking point, etc. will do no good if the broadheads aren't on straight.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 18, 2013, 08:42:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
When you say they don't fly perfectly. .  what do you mean ?  How are they not perfect ?

What type and size fletch are you using ?

ChuckC
I mean they are not hitting where my field points are.  They are about hitting 5" lower than my field points.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 18, 2013, 08:43:00 AM
I am shooting 5" LW parabolic feathers on a slight left helical.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 18, 2013, 08:46:00 AM
Shawn has helped me out tremendously so far as far as point weight, etc.  

I have shot the broadheads with 225 up front and also 275 up front.  From what Shawn says, these two weights should be spot on.  

As far as form and consistency goes, i am pretty consistent with my field tips.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Bill Carlsen on September 18, 2013, 08:51:00 AM
For what it is worth before I used an elevated rest and plunger I shot off the shelf. I could not shoot some broadheads at all. Some shot great. My guess is that you need to find the right broadhead.  I bet an original Wensel Woodsman would shoot just fine.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Charlie Lamb on September 18, 2013, 09:04:00 AM
Bill brings up an excellent point. What head are you using. Woodsman is hard to beat for good arrow flight. What are you using?
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: macbow on September 18, 2013, 09:09:00 AM
Charlie I think he said Muzzy.
Usually if everything is good except hitting lower than field points I would be moving the nocking point down a little at a time to see if it is better or worse.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: gringol on September 18, 2013, 09:12:00 AM
Some bhs just don't fly well.  Not that yours are bad, but some arrows/bows just don't play well with some bhs.  Have you tried any others?
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: huskyarcher on September 18, 2013, 09:13:00 AM
I couldnt get muzzy's to fly good out of a mathews...much less a stickbow! Good luck! Dont be afraid to change!
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Charlie Lamb on September 18, 2013, 09:30:00 AM
Ron... I looked at the post and missed it twice. Duh!Thanks.
 
Put away the Muzzy's and get some Woodsmans.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: macbow on September 18, 2013, 07:18:00 PM
I agree on the Woodsmans. Have never had bad flight that I didn't cause.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 19, 2013, 11:55:00 AM
Well, i am using muzzy's and unfortunately i am out of "hunting funds" right now.(The tough life of a college student). So i will have to stick with what i have for now.
I started moving the nock down some and it did make a difference.  Is 1/2" normal?  It flies very good with the nock height around 1/2".  
I always shot my field tips right about 5/8" and they flew well..
It makes me wonder how good i could have been shooting all this time with the proper nock height..
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 19, 2013, 11:56:00 AM
But i will check the classifieds and see if i can find some within my budget.  I have about $20 left that i alotted out for hunting accessories.  

Would you guys recommend a 2 blade or a 3 blade?
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Looper on September 19, 2013, 12:24:00 PM
There are a lot of good, inexpensive broad heads out there. Zwickeys will probably be the most economical for you.

You didn't say if you are nocking above or below the arrow. I'd suggest, if you already aren't, using two nock sets, one below and one above the arrow. Leave a small (1/16") gap so that your arrow isn't pinched at full draw. Two nock sets will prevent your arrow from sliding on the string, which will screw with your tuning.

In regards to nock height, it needs to be what it needs to be. I usually start with the lower nock at 3/8" above parallel and adjust from there. Make sure you don't go too low, or you can get some screwy results. The shaft will bounce off the shelf and give you a false low reading.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: gringol on September 19, 2013, 12:26:00 PM
1/2" is pretty normal.  Field points are far more forgiving.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Flying Dogg on September 19, 2013, 12:31:00 PM
As mentioned above, if the broadhead is not concentric(perfectly aligned) with the shaft the arrow will not fly well. I put my arrows horizontally on "V" blocks and roll the arrow with the point against a vertical surface. Any misalignment will be obvious by watching the point tip. If it is off, the tip will move in a small circle.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 19, 2013, 01:06:00 PM
Thank you guys for all your responses and help!  I will do that when i get my string reserved.  A guy offered to build me a few new strings as part of a deal and he served them with the wrong sized serving so my nocks are pretty loose.  

Flying Dog, i will attempt to do this test, thanks.

So if i get the zwickies, would you recommend 2, 3 or 4 blade?  Is there one that is typically more forgiving than another?
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: WildmanSC on September 19, 2013, 01:26:00 PM
Are you shooting with split fingers?  Or 3 under?  That will have an impact, pardon the pun  :) , on where your nock point needs to be.

Bill
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: Looper on September 19, 2013, 02:30:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by DanielB89:
Thank you guys for all your responses and help!  I will do that when i get my string reserved.  A guy offered to build me a few new strings as part of a deal and he served them with the wrong sized serving so my nocks are pretty loose.  

Flying Dog, i will attempt to do this test, thanks.

So if i get the zwickies, would you recommend 2, 3 or 4 blade?  Is there one that is typically more forgiving than another?
I'm only familiar with 2 and 4 blade Zwickeys, I don't think they make a 3-blade. At any rate, they are all good heads.  I've had great success with the Delta 4-blades.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 19, 2013, 03:54:00 PM
i shoot split.  Well would you recommend the 2 blade or the 4 blades?  Does anyone have some 2 blade zwickies for sale?
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: JamesKerr on September 19, 2013, 04:01:00 PM
Daniel if you want a few woodsmans to try out I have some of the glue on's that I would be happy to let you try and see if you liked them.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 20, 2013, 09:01:00 AM
James, thank you for the offer.  Hopefully we can get together one day before the season starts.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: ARCHER2 on September 20, 2013, 09:42:00 AM
Daniel,
I've got some 125 grain & some 145 grain Snuffers you are welcome to try. I'll probably run down to Monroe sometime this weekend. Let me know if you wanna try them and I'll get them to you.
Charlie
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 20, 2013, 11:59:00 PM
Charlie,
Thank you for the offer. I am waiting on my zwickies still from a friend so if they don't turn up I will Message  you.
Tha m you for the offer.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: 4 point on September 21, 2013, 12:13:00 AM
Not trying to be a smart guy but if you can't get the Muzzys to fly trying another broadhead isn't the cure. If your bow is tuned, you don't have any arrow contact on the shelf and your broadheads spin true it shouldn't make any difference what brand broadhead you shoot.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 21, 2013, 05:23:00 AM
I guess I forgot to express that I found out the problem. The problem was my nocking point was about 1/8" too high but it wasn't significant enough that my irks points showed ANY signs of a bad nocking point. My field points shot great even out to 40 yards.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: ranger 3 on September 21, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
If your nocks are that loose I would put on a double nocking point, sound like some or all of your arrows are slipping on the string.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: ranger 3 on September 21, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
If your nocks are that loose I would put on a double nocking point, sound like some or all of your arrows are slipping on the string.
Title: Re: Broadheads Sailing
Post by: DanielB89 on September 21, 2013, 02:19:00 PM
Ranger, i will do that.  Thanks!