Guys,
I'm really struggling to 100% commit to traditional archery.
I have been shooting my recurves and my longbow daily for the better part of that past 18 months. I love it. I enjoy it much more than shooting my compound. I rarely shoot my compound anymore. The problem is this. I feel confident that I can effectively hunt with my traditional equipment, but only out to about a max of 25 yards. I am very confident in my compound out to about 50 yards, though I freely admit that I have never shot a deer over 20 yards.
Last year I did not hunt with my traditional gear because I just felt I needed another year to practice. This year I am ready to hunt with it. I just feel like that compound sitting on my desk is some sort of crutch I can fall back on if I need to.
I have a chance to trade my decked out creed for a black widow pma II in graybark and a newer Kodiak recurve. Both have quivers, arrows, and other various accessories. I'm just nervous to take that leap into traditional bowhunting full time.
How did any of you handle the leap?
Just trade or sale the compound and the crutch is gone. You will not regret it. That is what I did and I have never looked back, nor will I ever.
Tom
Just take the plunge man! I did the same thing and you won't regret it. You just have to change your hunting style a bit to ensure that you get those close range shots even tho like you said, I could count on one hand the deer I took over 30 yards with my compound. You won't regret the widow either, great great bows.
I shoot deer every yr, and pass up hundreds more, there is no need, unless say your hunting the flat land of the west and just getting with in 50yrds is a nightmare.
I understand, I was there recently. I sold my compound earlier this year and do not miss it one bit. It wasn't that hard. I barely shot the compound because it was not enjoyable to me anymore. You just have to take the plunge.
I'm at the same spot. This will be my first season without wheels. I figure once I put 1 in the pot I will get rid of the compound.
I simply started hunting with my longbows, being aware that my effective range was more limited. But I hunt with firearms, too, the point of bowhunting for me is to see if I can succeed with the greater challenge.I did eventually sell my wheels, but not b/c I regarded them as a fallback; I simply had no desire to take them in the woods. Basically I wanted to hunt with the bow(s) that I enjoy shooting day to day when I'm not hunting. Note that the value of compounds drops quickly with age; if you're thinking to sell, you might want to move quickly.
I can't remember the last animal I have shot past 20yds. I shoot quite a few critters and most are 10-15yds. Trad is different than wheel bows. You have to do things differently and 25+yd shots are not even part of the equation for nearly all successful trad hunters.
You should hunt with whichever bow makes you most happy. It is not right or wrong to go one way or the other. We are all just trying to have fun and what is fun for one guy is not for another. The main thing is to have fun.
If you go into the woods with a stick bow thinking "Man I wish I had my wheels because .................", you are setting yourself up for failure.
Bisch
" I love it. I enjoy it much more than shooting my compound"
looks to me you answered your own question.at least that is all it took for me to loose the wheels good huntin to ya
Since going full Trad almost 15 years ago I have had many nice deer fall just outside my effective range. At first I would always say "Man if I had my compound, I could have shot that - so sweat" Now I say "I need to get closer"
Just go kill a deer with your trad bow if you haven't yet. You will not look back or think back again :bigsmyl:
The only way is to dive in head first, sink or swim! No need to ever shoot a deer further than 20 yds anyway :archer:
Just do it!!!
I too think you've answered your own question. You never shot a deer past 20 yards with your compound right? Just remember, no matter how good a shot you are, even at 300fps a lot can happen in the time it takes an arrow to travel 50 yards.
You just have to decide for yourself. I hunt w/ Trad. equipment and compound. Have killed a bunch of deer with compound and two with Traditional Bow[Widow PSA] . Also hunt with muzzleloader and rifle. This year am going to try with 44 mag. pistol. I enjoy all the different hunting .Will not lock into just one way of hunting. Would not be too fast to get rid of a good compound.Might wish it was back. One opinion, Roy
Typically, there's two differing hunting philosophies at work when comparing hunting with a compound vs hunting with traditional gear.
When hunting with a compound, hunters often think in terms of "how far can I shoot". This thinking often shapes how and where they hunt, for the thinking is to cover as much ground as possible and have a wide cone of shooting options, out to 50-60 yards.
When hunting with traditional gear, hunters often think in terms of "how close can I get". Counter to hunting places with lots of visibility, traditional hunters often get into a setup where there's lots of traffic on a game trail, but the shooting may be 15 yards, tops.
The way to handle the leap is to make your bowhunting a 15 yard game and to figure out how you're going to get 10-15 yards from the game you're after and give up on thoughts of 30 yard plus shots-they no longer exist, so don't worry about them.
I am in the same boat as you my friend. To force the issue I have been selling my training wheel bows one at a time.
I am down to a single Hoyt which I will use this year.
Where I hunt there is a special doe season in Jan 2014 and that will be all trad going forward for me.
It sounds to me like you've already set your heart on hunting with a single-string. Do it, you will love every moment.
You have the chance to trade a small hardware store with string wrapped around it for two nice recurves with all the necessary arrows and quivers?
I'm sorry, there's a question on this??
Guy
Just do it. I sold all of my compound gear after killing nearly 100 deer with wheels in 18 years, and haven't looked back.
Just sold my Mathews DXT and every compound thing at once. Now I have no choice. When I feel I'm ready, I'll hunt with it. Best of Luck
One of the challenges of traditional archery is that you must be closer to your quarry. If you are competent out to 25 yards, you are a pretty damn good archer. Don't compare it to the compound, as you simply do not have the mechanical advantage offered by the wheels. You will NEVER be able to shoot accurately with trad gear at the extended ranges the wheelie bow allows. Let your woodsman/hunting skills get you the close shots you need to be confident and effective with your traditional bow. Most of all, get rid of these self doubts you seem to be feeling and just hunt.
I shot target and field archery with stick-bows (mostly recurve). In 1980 a friend convinced me I needed a compound for hunting deer - which I hadn't tried until then as I was a newlywed and meat was now precious - so I tried one. Made every mistake you can think of and I watched some great bucks run or walk off with my arrows in various places not part of a deer. Also hated the fact my aluminum arrows did not hold up to roving.
Went back to a recurve in 1983 and have not shot a compound or non-wood arrow since.
I say make the trade.
look at it like this the compound will loose value very fast. the widow will not. make the trade for the widow and give trad 100% for the season. if you feel you ever need a compound again sell the widow and come out of top with the finacial aspect. And you will be able to make the decision of shooting full trad, both, or only compound then after you gave it a full season.
To borrow from Nike. Just do it.
Sell the wheels and never look back. Don't worry about killing something with your bow and just enjoy hunting with it.
I haven't sold my wheels... because nobody wants an old, left-handed, cheap compound, but I haven't shot it (or pulled it out of the closet) in over a year. My friends think I'm crazy.
What they don't realize is that in my mind, I've killed deer - that's not the only thing I enjoy about hunting. I'm hunting whether I have a stick or a bazooka. For me it is about the hunt.
If you are worried about your killing range, wait until rifle season... unless you truly enjoy shooting the compound - then keep it.
You better hurry and trade...it's a smokin deal.
If you know your confidence level is there this year, what's holding you back?
This is my first year with all trad too, so I remember how I felt as you do when trying to decide last year.
If you get a chance to hog hunt with your trad gear, do it. It helped me transition to being able to now hunt deer.
QuoteOriginally posted by Scott E:
Sell the wheels and never look back. Don't worry about killing something with your bow and just enjoy hunting with it.
Whoops... didn't get this one read before I posted.
What he said (that's how I feel)!
Jump on the trade as it is a great deal. Then go hunting and have fun.
Traditional truly is a state of mind. You either have it, or you don't. It is not something you can force on yourself or anyone.
You have to be doing it for the challenge, self satisfaction, and ultimately because you want to.
When I made the switch in 1994, it was easy, and I have never looked back.
Follow your heart. If your not ready to let go of the wheels then keep them. When I transitioned to "trad" I never looked back and I traded my compound for a kayak.
After shooting a few deer with a compound I was bored. I tried an old bear recurve that my cousin and hunting buddy had (he converted prior to me)
I had a lot of fun shooting it so I went and got a long bow. After shooting it I was happy with the simplicity of the design. I immediatey sold the PSE compound.
Now I'll tell you that many times after that day I have been frustrated enough that if that PSE was still in the closet, I may have gotten it out.
But traditional archery is about "Tradition"
If you want to kill every time, its not the best tool (at least in my hands)
But when you do connect the feeling is ohhhh so much better.
But honestly at my age its not about killing anymore. If I do then great, if not then its less work dragging a deer up a steep hill.
In a nutshell its all about simplicity and the experience.
Good Luck
:archer2:
Thank you for the advice and positive encouragement.
3 pages of helpful folks without one negative.. how refreshing.
That alone says a lot about why I have been gravitating toward traditional archery for some time now.
And yes, you guys were right. I did pretty much answer my own question. I do love shooting my traditional bows. I rarely get the Mathews out.
I really like the comments about changing the hunt in regards to setting up stands for closer shots. I did notice that my thought process changed quite a bit this year when choosing stand locations and shooting lanes. I used to set my stands up 20 yards off main trails but this year they are mostly set at 10-15 yards off the main trails.
Thank you TradGang for giving me that little push I needed.
I will be working out a deal today lord willing.
As others have said, you just need to focus on getting the close shots you need and don't worry about those that are longer. I was like you - had never shot anything over 20 yards anyway, even though with the wheel bow I was fully capable. Since switching full time, have there been any shots I passed with the stickbow that I might have been able to make with a compound? Of course. But I don't regret the weapon I had in my hands at all.
I can say for certain that I have become a better hunter since switching over. The bow didn't make me that way, but it is just something that happened. Focus your energy in learning to become a better hunter instead of a better long distance shot and your success rate will go up.
When I set the wheels down for good I kept my compound around for a number of years as my "crutch". It was a nice bow, top of the line at the time, and I could have gotten a pretty good price for it had I just done it then. Eventually ended up selling it for peanuts just to get it out of the house.
Here is my opinion, take it for what it is. I don't mean to sound harsh:
If a guy is still thinking about 50 yard shots with a bow, he isn't ready.
You will never "commit" if you have a compound to fall back on. Get rid of it.
Once you ditch the compound mentality, you will realize the hidden secret....a longbow or recurve is actually a SUPERIOR tool for close range hunting. A compound is cumbersome and overly complicated. You will become a better hunter and get closer, and you will be rewarded with the realization that you are making shots and killing game that COULDN'T BE DONE WITH A COMPOUND.
I laugh when I read comments about game animals and situations in which "I used my compound because I couldn't get close".....nonsense. Realize how many average joes kill "long range game" like mule deer and antelope every year with traditional gear....
I am absolutely NOT a great stalker/stillhunter....yet I was able to kill a mule deer at 10 yards, and a caribou at 13 yards.
Go donate your compound to charity, and get on with it.
P.S....kudos for being responsible and training with your traditional gear for as long as you did. I have much respect for that. Too many guys jump in too quickly. :thumbsup:
You don't know how deep the water is until you get feet out of the boat.... sell the wheels, give it away, take to cables off, accidentally back over it with you truck.
Joe
PS Then Don't play the game of seeing a deer and not getting a shot and saying "Oh if I had had my other bow...! (or a Mathews, X-bow, or range finder, or triple stablizer, or 30.30, or my .06 w/ 3X9 or a .7MM w/ 4X12)
I tried to ride the fence between my compound and trad gear for a while. I eventually came to the conclusion both were suffering. I had to choose one over the other. Once I went trad only I felt my confidence and my shooting improve. I still have not taken a deer with trad gear but I have passed on many opportunities that this year I will be fully confident in. I guess we are all different, others can switch gear and still be proficient, I can't. I think if you find what makes you happy; you have succeeded.
I made the trade!!!
Shipping the wheels out tomorrow!
I ended up changing the deal a bit though.
I got a black widow pma II in graybark with bw quiver and bw bag with a dozen carbon arrows.
I also got a bear montana long bow with a dozen custom cedar shafts - all with field points.. and a half dozen new woodsman broadheads.
I am excited!
somewhere I seen a quote something like this
"Archers find ways to shoot accurately farther, bow hunters find a way to get close enough to ensure accuracy".
I decided I was a bow hunter, that was when I decided on Trad.
Nice deal! You got a lot of traditional goodies for your wheel bow. It was a good long term trade too, those stickbows will be worth a lot more in the years to come than the compound you traded. Recurves and longbows hold their value a lot better than compounds.
I think you made a good choice but at the risk of being branded a heretic on a traditional site I don't think there's anything wrong with having and shooting both stickbows and compounds. I love my recurves and rarely shoot my compound anymore but it's still hanging on the wall all tuned up and ready to go. I hunt with it in very cold weather, for me all the clothing required for extreme temperatures really throws off my form. Even with lots of bulky clothing and balaclavas, the pending hypothermia of late season hunting means my recurve accuracy takes a dive. At those times I take the compound since I question my ability to adapt with the stickbow. I don't want to stay home and I don't want to wound one, I guess I figure it's all archery and even though I prefer one type over the other I don't see the other as evil.
Way To Go JC! Now your "hunting world" will be close in and personal... Just what true archery in hunting should be!
... mike ...
I will offer a bit of a different perspective.
A lot of fellows who do fine with compounds have come to this same fork in the trail. I did in 2010 after 34 years of compound success (and enjoyment).
1. The vast majority of bow shots in the east US are under 25 yards. The average compound 17 yards and the average recurve or longbow is around 14 yards. (The average with a rifle is only 37 yards). Your reported effective range of 25 yards is more than enough to keep you in the action.
2. There is no need to get rid of your compound. I keep one for the fun of shooting and in case I am injured in a way I can't shoot my curves but can the compound. This very thing happened in the season of 2009 which would have been my first year back to curves. I also keep one and may decide to hunt turkey with it.
Like you I practiced 50-60 yards with the compound far more than I did at under 35. I didn't practice that far because I intended to shoot an uninjured animal that far. This made the under 30-yard shot a true gimmee. In 44 years of bowhunting (34 with the compound) I've only taken 3 shots over 30 yards -- killed one each at 31 (whitetail) and 33 yards (Mulie) and missed one that was further.
When I committed to the curve I worried that finally the monster buck I've always dreamed about would pop out at 30 yards and my 20-yard effective range with the curve would put him out of reach. Of course I came to the realization years ago that how I kill an animal is more important to me than killing the animal.
In fact, that very thing happened the first year on opening morning! Three nice bucks, one that was bigger than I've ever shot with anything, was 23-25 yards. I passed him because I felt good at 20 and under. I don't regret it anymore than when I hunted with the compound and a big buck was at .308 range.
Owning and shooting a compound doesn't make you any less or more a bowhunter than other equipment choices. I will offer though, the satisfaction of hunting with the curve is a very pleasurable nostalgic experience for me. The satisfaction I get from a curve kill is greater than with the compound. These are the two primary reasons I choose recurves.
I hit the range yesterday with an Osage stick, a glass recurve, and a space age wheel bow. I shot the wheel bow it make sure "it" was accurate when I wanted to use it. I shot the others so I would know "I" was accurate when I needed to be. I will mostly hunt trad this year but there is still room for another tool for the job, just like my rifles. I made my selfbow this year and I can tell you that it will mean more to me to kill a deer with it than anything else, but it will not be the only method I use. It's all good.
No mater the reasons, you made a good trade on the two bows for your wheels. No doubt they will be worth much more in 5 years than the compound. If you want to go back find a used compound for a good deal and you're way ahead in the game.
Good luck this season!
Trout
Watch this video http://vimeo.com/58661885
what a great video.. I can definitely relate to it. Thank you for posting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I can't remember the last animal I have shot past 20yds. I shoot quite a few critters and most are 10-15yds. Trad is different than wheel bows. You have to do things differently and 25+yd shots are not even part of the equation for nearly all successful trad hunters.
You should hunt with whichever bow makes you most happy. It is not right or wrong to go one way or the other. We are all just trying to have fun and what is fun for one guy is not for another. The main thing is to have fun.
If you go into the woods with a stick bow thinking "Man I wish I had my wheels because .................", you are setting yourself up for failure.
Bisch
I think Bisch hit it on the head. I know from time to time people may put off the impression that, 'traditional archery is the only way', and call a compound, "training wheels", but the main point of the outdoors is to enjoy it. If you are not at a point to where you enjoy shooting the trad bow more than the compound, keep it. If you are, trade it(then send me the black widow ;).
As some one who just sold his compound a matter of weeks ago, I will say that since i built my longbow 2 years ago, my compound has seen minimal action. So I decided to give it to someone who might actually want it.
DO WHAT YOU ENJOY!
Daniel
I seen that video a few months ago, and that's when I knew my wheels would stay in the closet.
Thanks for sharing the video link!
The bow was a west coast recurve from the brass TD bolt inserts in the face of the riser ends. Was it a Wallace or Fox?
[
Once you ditch the compound mentality, you will realize the hidden secret....a longbow or recurve is actually a SUPERIOR tool for close range hunting. A compound is cumbersome and overly complicated. You will become a better hunter and get closer, and you will be rewarded with the realization that you are making shots and killing game that COULDN'T BE DONE WITH A COMPOUND.
I think this is right. I killed 3 deer with a longbow before I sold my compound 8 years ago.I kept going back and forth. I killed a pile of critters with a compound, but I've found the longbow to make me a better hunter.I've learned to set up better and get better shots. I certainly still see deer out of range, but really they would be to far for me with a compound too. I'm not the best shot out there, but under 20 I do pretty good.
QuoteOriginally posted by D.J. Carr:
somewhere I seen a quote something like this
"Archers find ways to shoot accurately farther, bow hunters find a way to get close enough to ensure accuracy".
I decided I was a bow hunter, that was when I decided on Trad.
Look at my sig line
well guys.. the compound shipped out yesterday.
According to the UPS site.. my widow and bear should be here tomorrow. I am excited to start this journey.
I will try to post up pics of my new bows when they arrive.
Sounds like a heck of a deal! And everyone's right - those two bows, especially the Widow, will hold their values when you decide to try other bows.
Loving my widow!! It shoots like a dream..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i1zFw29qR8Y/UkFsSF8F2eI/AAAAAAAAIeU/_WhOnsIq_ZI/s640/IMG_20130923_160733_608.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y4ptFKnIps8/UkFsHHKpZXI/AAAAAAAAIeE/-E_6tw2eCKg/s640/IMG_20130923_160717_423.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b-A_bAYtxqM/UkFsLb8HZAI/AAAAAAAAIeM/iU0ISOza16c/s640/IMG_20130924_053445_597.jpg)
I sold my compound and purchased a black widow pma and on the first day I shot probably 60 arrows thru and was throwing some good groups from 10-25 yards,and since I have been kinda spraying them a little and I know I am playing with different stance,hold,ect.any suggestions???
Unfortunately I am also state an alternative point. I stopped shooting my compound years ago, dedicated to hunting traditional. I have never harvested an animal with traditional gear to-date. I have passed on numerous shot opportunities though for a variety of reasons. But 3 weeks ago I had elbow surgery. The surgery went very well and I had begun physical therapy. Naturally I am anxious to shoot my bows again. Unfortunately when trying my longbows and recurves, I experience pain, but not when shooting my compound. It probably is due to the let-off on the compound. All bows are equal draw weights. Now I will continue to rehab my elbow and eventually I will be strong enough to shoot my traditional bows, but my hunting this year will likely be done with the compound.
Sell the wheels and move on from it. You'll be fine and a lot happier.
If it gets you off your butt and out of the house enjoying nature who cares if you are using a recurve, a compound, a slingshot or a spork. I hope your new bows bring you joy and some great experiences.
These guys are totally right on the stick bow being a better short range weapon. I was just last night down in my basement starting to get everything around for upcoming deer season. I decided to shoot the wheelie and noticed after a few shots that the bubble off my one pin sight had fallen off. I found it, but now I need to glue it back on. There's also tons of gadgets on it to be checked and oiled/etc. The only thing you need to do to a trad bow is wax the string (and shoot it regularly of course). I'm not 100% trad yet, but hopefully will be by next year. I couldnt make the time this summer with fishing and building a new home.
Do what I did. Trade your compound for a pair of custom knives to match your favorite bow! I now have a great bushcraft knife for when I camp/hunt at the same time and a custom skinner for dressing out what I kill. Both the bow and knife scales are cocobolo, one of my favorite woods. It worked out fantastic for me...
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee146/gdpolk/Traditional%20Projects/IMG_0265_zps434ee606.jpg)
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee146/gdpolk/Mark%20Hill%20Knives/IMG_0094_zps3ef4eeba.jpg)
While reading your post, couldn't help but wonder just how many folks here have done exactly the same? Guaranteed, it is a big bunch!
Can't you shoot both? Which do you enjoy more? I got puke sick with compound shooting tacks at 20 yards! Tacks don't move & you'll never find a deer broadside at 20 yards! Man up Newb! This stuff is too much fun!
The change from using site pins, to learning to shoot instinctive was one of the most humbling things i think I've ever done. But.... it was also one of the most satisfying things.
In my case i sold my fancy bow and bought a band saw...
I have other weapons that could be used for harvesting game, and i see no reason to get rid of them. I think if i really needed the meat, i would most likely choose something other than a traditional bow to hunt with.
But the reason i chose to hunt this way is for the challenge. To challenge myself to become a better hunter. To make commitment to master the bare bow takes dedication and time.
The first few times i had elk at 35 yards and knew i had to get closer to get a decent shot, surprisingly it didn't faze me a bit. It frustrated my hunting partners to no end because they are meat hunters first, and like the idea of having the advantage of shooting longer distances with extreme accuracy....
shooting a compound bow with sights is more like hunting with a rifle to me. Only you need to be really good at guessing yardage, or use a range finder.....
Traditional bow hunting has become a passion to me.... I hold no ill feelings for anyone using any weapon as a means to harvest their game.
bottom line is this is a lot more fun.... Kirk