Just seeing if anyone has ever had this happen before. I shot my first Deer last night with a Tree Shark I am shooting 52# with a 590 grain arrow. I shot the deer standing broadside, and as soon as I shot I heard a loud crack. AS soon as I heard it I though crap I hammered his shoulder. I got down got the arrow, and at most I got was 1" of penetration past the broadhead. When I found the deer it was a good broadside hit but it looks like it has a probably 6" long gash and when I cleaned it the broadhead tried to wedge inbetween tow ribs and never even penetrated through the ribs. Do you think that maybe the deer turned during the shot causing the long gash and that slowed the arrow down enough to where it would not at least break the ribs going in. just wondering dead is dead but its one of the craziest things I have seen or maybe the deer turned and how that broadhead sweeps out it hit at a angle and just whipped and snapped the head.
P.S I have pics if someone wants to post them I can get them on here from my phone.
I'll be interested in following this one... Based on the penetration you got, I'm curious to understand the lethality of the wound/hit? Perplexing and disturbing @best.... Glad to hear you recovered the animal! :thumbsup:
Did it break the shaft an 1" back from the head around the end of the insert or was the arrow intact. Almost sounds like the deer spun and wheeled at the same speed or faster than the arrow and moved out of the way and or was gone before it had a chance to get into his cage. If the arrow broke I would think the head hit and the shaft snapped taking all the energy out of the arrow.
I am shooting Axis .400 and it broke part of the actual HIT insert. and KAZ Me too I guess when the head tried to go through the ribs it poked one lung it was bright red bubble blood and a pretty good blood trail on top of that is was on of the craziest things I have seen. The butcher said I am not sure what killed your deer....
I think when shaft broke it robbed all the energy from arrow in combination with the deer wheeling. Do you foot your shafts?
I had problems with HIT inserts myself....I took some great advice from SteveO and used JB Weld on the insert, and also footed my shafts using JB Weld, I actually broke a STEEL field point after I sunk the arrow into a fencepost (woops!) But the insert and shaft were perfectly intact, the male threads of the field point snapped. JB Weld is the way to go along w/footing your arrows-cheap insurance :biglaugh: glad you found your deer, any pics?
I guess so... I reckon when he wheeled areound real quick it just snapped it its crazy though. I don't foot my shafts, and this is the first one I have ever had break on me this is my first deer with a treeshark too though. Tigersharks, and VPA have killed several with no problems, who knows crazy stuff happens some times.
Might have been a defect in the shaft who knows. But that is crazy.
Think this thru.
Any really wide head will strike with the edge, not the tip, on an oblique shot. Yes, either the deer spun or was never actually straight broadside when you shot.
When you hit the deer obliquely, the head will travel along the body, causing a long cut wound, until the tip catches on something enough to cause it to dig in.
The only way this doesn't occur is if the arrow is spinning just exactly right on impact so that the head is mostly straight up and down, allowing the tip to work.
Hold one of your arrows with Simmons (or any other wide) head straight against a flat surface, then move it to the side and see what I am talking about.
I have had this happen to me several times using wide heads on hard quartering shots. Narrower heads don't do this near as much.
BK. . where did you hit it where you "didn't get but 1" penetration" "didn't go thru the ribs", but you still killed the deer ?
ChuckC
I'm gonna guess it's a combination of the deer wheeling at the shot, and a possible defect in the shaft. You still found the deer, and that is one reason I am so drawn to those treesharks. So many guys find deer on seemingly marginal shots that turned out to be deadly.
I had one last year do something close to this. Big doe spun at the shot and the arrow traveled along the rib cage, under the shoulder and severed an artery in the neck. Blood everywhere! Tree shark as well.....
Yeah the 1" penetration was how far the broadhead went until the width that 2" head wedged between the two ribs and just bounced off you could see just a the tiny hole that made it between the ribs before that width slowed it down I guess. It was the craziest thing I have ever seen it sounded liked I hit a rock,and the arrow just bounced off the deer.
I mean it didn't even break either of the two ribs it tried to go through,
That is interesting. bkbk12 if you want to email me the pics i'll put em up for ya. Cmane08@yahoo.com
The wider the blades the more energy it takes to sink them in a deer. I assume since you are using HIT inserts you also have skinny shafts. Larger diameter shafts are also stiffer. Change heads change shafts or I would suggest both.
Thats the reason you see time after time these guys on TV when they shoot a "RAGE in the cage" they only get 4" of penetration out of a compound bow on a broadside deer. Wide blades keep the arrow from going in very far when a deer muscles tense in its attempt to escape.
I shoot the same poundage as you and years ago I shot a wider head and shot a bunch of critters with them. As soon as I went to a thinner diameter head I noticed a big penetration improvement. Wide heads are great as long as everything goes just perfectly from light weight bows. I like to plan for the unexpected though.
I'd say the cut is horizontal instead of vertical in the hide? If the head would have hit vertical I'd say the arrow would have penetrated much more as it slipped through the ribs. Those things have almost wing like protrusions that sweep outward creating drag as well.
That's crazy. Maybe you just poked a hole in the one lung and a combination of that penetration and the gash caused both lungs to collapse. From what I have heard medically if you have an open chest wound that is the biggest worry your lungs collapsing and you can't breath and suffocate.
I personally don't think that there is any comparison in a rage with a total arrow weight of 350 gr (gotta be as fast as it can get HA) and an arrow that is 600 with a 2 "head as far as penetration is concerned. I have seen many arrows snap on ball and socket or a shoulder with an expandable head and get no penetration at all. If this was to happen again I would change but the arrow failure and wheel is what caused it I think. I killed 18 with a treesharks last year all but 2 were pass throughs(sticking in the dirt) from 15 -31 yards bows from 53-57lbs.
Widow did you say you killed 18 deer last year alone! Holly rip! That's some slayin. You must be into em! Sorry to get off topic
Ha I was thinking the same thing, puttin em down for sure
Yes at one of the places I am fortunate enough to hunt we have 100 doe tags. So I try to do my part.
Cman I just sent you pics
Widow, I agree... I am using the rage as an example of how a wider blade doesn't penetrate as far as a thinner head would. Don't forget the compound arrow is traveling much faster. I also agree that there may have been a shaft issue before the shot was taken.
Five or six years ago I shot at a deer that was almost perfectly broadside to me when I released. The deer was on alert and when the arrow got to it the arrow hit it in the front of the lower neck. Upon internal inspection the next day the two blade head penetrated one lung about 1/2". I guarantee you if I was using a even a three blade head or a wider land shark I would have never found that deer.
Here ya go. Left a hole that's for sure!
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Cmane081/photo_zpsd868b8e0.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Cmane081/media/photo_zpsd868b8e0.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Cmane081/photo1_zps20408274.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Cmane081/media/photo1_zps20408274.jpg.html)
Something had to get into the cage must have been just enough to get the job done. You don't by chance have a lung or inside chest pic?
I'm thinking the head traveled the side of the deer on the shot and the Deere reaction. It Doug just enough to finally catch the edge of a rib hanging the direction into the deer the tip penetrated the one lung and the blades being wedged between the ribs and the arrow momentum kept carrying it and snapped it off where it was wedge. Just behind he point? Idk lol. That's my explanation. But I'm not too good either at theories and hypothesis. :biglaugh:
what did the lungs look like when you gutted it?
That's the thing the chest cavity was not tore up at all nothing like my normal lung shot deer, and no I didn't take any pics of the inside rib cage there was a tiny 1" slit on the inside right rib cage that's it. I mean the lungs are inside the ribs a little ways so at most that tip maybe just barely touched one. IDK I have shot several deer and only hit one lund and had to track a lot further than this guy.
Very Strange indeed. One lung hit deer can go a longways and some have been known to survive. Maybe shock kill the deer. Heart attack?? Shawn
He knew it was you Brain and a Simmons so he just gave up.
Seriously folks, I've seen Brian knock the centers out of clay targets hung up by fishooks and clean out the center while leaving the rest of the clay intact. And this was three in a row with someone else's bow. The man can shoot.
Congrats on the deer Brain. Hope the rest of your season is a good one.
The deer ruptured his aorta trying to twist and get away from bk's arrow.
That's the only thing I can think of.
:knothead:
ChuckC
SO, has it done anything to your confidence in the heads? BILL
Like Shawn said, heart attack or maybe did the deer run into a tree and break its neck? This is strange.
I've seen several animals die with wounds that you would not think would kill them. Its one great reason to not give up a track.
My son killed a nice bull elk with a brisket shot that never touched anything but brisket meat. The bull bled out and died in about 500 yards. the arrow never penetrated into the chest cavity at all. There also was not much blood after the first 50 yards or so from the wound. We never did figure out why he died.
Anyway as to what caused this shot to not penetrate or why the deer died?????????? Good question and I doubt we ever get the answer.
God bless, Steve
I wouldnt give up on the tree sharks. I think that was just one of those freak things that happen once in a rare while. Could happen with any head. I havnt heard anything but good about them.
Wow, strange things happen. Congrats on the deer !
Yeah.....I really like the heads I can get them sharp and they fly great. Its just one of those freak things, I will try them again who know what the exact reasoning was I wasn't filming so I will never know. the broadhead did its job though lots of blood and deer on the ground. I would have liked to see what a double lung shot looked like.
I've been following this one... I cannot offer any thoughts on the matter of how the deer died, except like mentioned earlier the collapsed lungs theory.
I started shooting Simmons last year after a friend had a few less than stellar shots that looked like the animals were hit with an ax and expired in his sight. The Simmons are very easy to get razor sharp and fly like darts for me. It seems to me that they provide a very short and easy to follow trail after the shot.
It's all about the way you sharpen them. LCH shot a nice doe Saturday evening and it went slam through her and broke her leg. The blood trail was great I found the deer before he got to the ground on his climber. Talk to him about sharpening these things. He does the same technique as landshark 160.
Moral of this story is. If you hit a deer with a tree shark it will die. Hell I shot a doe off the ground one time when I shot wheels and I pull way left. She was walking left and I thought I shot in front of her neck. I walked over and pulled my totally clean arrow out of a stump and saw a drop if blood on ground. Started following and after 10 feet it looked like you took a hose and walked thru the woods. Ended up one blade sliced her throat. Yes u read that right. One blade sliced her throat. Found her within 40 yds. No waiting or anything. Crazy
QuoteOriginally posted by Longspur77:
Moral of this story is. If you hit a deer with a tree shark it will die. Hell I shot a doe off the ground one time when I shot wheels and I pull way left. She was walking left and I thought I shot in front of her neck. I walked over and pulled my totally clean arrow out of a stump and saw a drop if blood on ground. Started following and after 10 feet it looked like you took a hose and walked thru the woods. Ended up one blade sliced her throat. Yes u read that right. One blade sliced her throat. Found her within 40 yds. No waiting or anything. Crazy
I had the same thing happen to me with a stinger buzz cut I thought I missed watched the deer go 30 yards stager and drop . I found the arrow with a little blood on it. I must of sliced the caroted artery like you a garden hose sprayed blood trail.(lucky I guess).
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I love these heads for deer and turkey, but will not take hard quartering shots with them any more. This shot never entered the chest cavity. Cut all major arteries in the front leg. She ran about 90 yards. Everything else has been complete passthroughs.
I'm no doctor and I don't play one on TV, but I look at the size of these wounds and wonder if perhaps the trauma is so great that it just shuts them down.
If you think about it, a heavy arrow may well knock the wind out of them and the size of the wound may put them in shock and somehow breathing is just shut down?
I don't even know if that is medically possible...
Regardless I'm glad you guys were able to recover your deer before the coyotes got first dibs.
I'm going to email this thread to a hunting bud who has been an ER nurse in Chicago for 20 years (means he has seen it all) and get his thoughts. I'll check back in with what his thoughts are.
Love this post!! I am new with the simmons and really didn't think about the hard quartering shots but now that it has been stated it all makes sense. You all might have save a deer's life and me from feeling really bad.