i know it aint all about speed but who makes the fastest recurves thinking about ordering one when my shoulder recovers 55 plus pounds draw wt
thanks Ralph.
border black douglas
Habu VyperKahn.
Some folks will tell you there's no such thing as a fast bow that's also stable, quiet, forgiving, and easy to shoot. Those traits are supposedly incompatible. They haven't shot a Black Douglas. :readit:
RER bows are fast, smooth and quite. Plus great customer service before and after the sale, Kevin and Sue are top notch people.
Dave
pittsley predator.
Morrison
Zipper and my new Tradtech Titan
Black Douglas, hands down!!!!!!
I think I see one in my future as well. LOL!!
fast bow that's also stable, quiet, forgiving, and easy to shoot
Pittsley, Black Douglas, Morrison, Habu, Zipper, Tradtech,RER, if we wait a bit every make bow that SOMEBODY owns will get mentioned. LOL sounds like they are all that way. Wonder why so many of them end up in the classifieds?
As far as fast? According to the tests I've been reading for 30 years, shooting the same grain weight arrow, at the same draw length, and at the same draw weight, with very few exceptions there won't be a 5% difference between the fastest and the slowest bows, whether they cost $200 or $1200. An imperceptible amount to be honest.
We've been having this argument for 10 years now and I've yet to see the "magic bow" that shoots 10 grains per pound of draw weight, drawn 28" that will shoot an arrow 200 FPS.
When choosing a bow you have to hunt and live with, speed should be about 4th or 5th on the list of features you should worry about.IMO First and foremost should be a bow that fits your hand, and is comfortable to shoot.Everything else fall in line somewhere behind that.
metal risered black swan impala. Cut past center, completely dead in hand, and blazingly fast.
ACS CX will get the job done if you do your part.
You know, Mr. Ferret does know what he is talking about!!!
Mickey... :clapper:
Mickey,
You have a good point. However, have you ever shot a Border?
Marc, have to admit I haven't. It may very well be a hell of a bow, in fact judging from the praise it's getting here I have no doubt it's a hell of a bow. Maybe I'll get a chance to shoot one someday. I have shot numerous bows that people have claimed were the be all to end all and to tell you the truth some of them were great bows (to me) and some for various reasons I wouldn't carry from the truck to the edge of the woods (I don't care how fast they were).
Think about this, in general, a spear won't be as fast as an atlatl, an atlatl won't be as fast as a wood bow, a wood bow won't be as fast as a glass longbow, a glass longbow won't be as fast as a glass recurve, a glass recurve won't be as fast as a compound, a compound won't be as fast as a muzzleoader, a muzzleoader won't be as fast as a centerfire rifle. Man has killed critters with all of them. Fast is a relative term. Just how fast a weapon do you need to hunt or to make you happy?
You want fast? Wait until you're my age and then one day look around at your grown children and your grandchildren and wonder where the time has gone. :biglaugh:
Balck Swan, Ballistik, Border, RER, etc. Lots of fast bows. Find a bow that suits you and be happy.
If we do that then will we know the answer to the question? ;)
Not sure, but the newer black swans might make the 200fps mark at 10gpp. I can't pull to 28 or I'd give it a shot.
As others have pointed out, the absolute speed doesn't make that much difference anyway. I can shoot this bow better than any of my other bows or than any other bows I've tried.
ps. I can't hit diddly with my atlatl...
Well said, Mickey, all of it.
Another vote for the Border. What I like most about the Border most though is not it's speed but it's forgiveness. I also like the way the limbs are recessed into the riser not tacked on like an afterthought. Looks, speed, craftsmanship-Border! :)
TURKEYCREEK LONGBOW shoots with all the top name bows out there!!!!FAST QUIET AS A CHURCH MOUSE NO HAND SHOCK!!!! SHORT WAIT TIME FOR A NEW BOW. And a good looking bow i might add.
I concur with Mickey 100 percent. And yes...I've shot a Border Black Douglas....I traded it for a Bear Custom Kodiak. Why? You ask! Because it feels better in my hand, and it hits where I look bettern than any bow out there.
Speed is the last thing I look for.
Howard Hill Man !!! I just got to stick up for the ol' guy. Hell, mine shoots all by itself somtimes... now thats smooth!!
Hillbilly
How much are those recurves? Their website didnt give any prices. just curious.
Frasettor, I can't find the US price list -- it used to be there. They aren't cheap, but the prices are comparable to top-end bows made in the states.
I think it's healthy that there are so many opinions about a fast hunting recurve. It's like ice cream: it'd be pretty boring if there was only one flavor, wouldn't it? Even if it was osage flavored and was made in the 1960's ... ;) ;) :)
Here are some prices on Border bows from Raptor Archery's site (a TG sponsor):
http://www.raptorarchery.com/border_bows.html
Frassettor, Borders are expensive and IMO I would look for a bowyer here in the states.
The Border will not do what mickey says either. As he said no Trad bow will. at 9 gpp, maybe but at 28"s i doubt it. The old Bears and Pearsons are only 8-10fps. slower than some of todays fastest. I like a quick bow, but I will take quiet every time. I will throw in my RER Arroyo, as a quick, quiet and very easy to shoot bow, ecsp. for 54"s long. Shawn
Agree with Mickey. Get a 1980's Martin Mamba (many other brands/models also even back to the 60's will work) and you'll probably have about the fastest bow out there :bigsmyl: ...Van
I want to be clear, I am not against fast bows, heck speed (with an appropriately weighted arrow) will allow you to shoot a heavier arrow at a good speed increasing KE/Momentum and penetration. That's a good thing.
I just hate to see someone that may be switching from wheels, or maybe someone just taking up trad for the first time who may be reading this to think that these bows are capable of things they are not. A really top flight glass recurve, lets just say 50# @ 28" drawn 28" with a 500 grain arrow, shot with fingers may shoot in the mid to high 190's. (I see very few that will do that, most will be in the high 180s). An average glass recurve of the same specs may shoot an arrow in the mid to high 180's (but more likely in the high 170's).
I've read Blacky's reports in TBM on all the "latest" bows that he has tested (with 9 gpp I believe) and non have made it out of the 190's and most don't make it into the 190's.
Sure bows are getting faster when you read the reports...arrows are getting lighter, strings are getting lighter. I imagine you could really get one sizzling with 6 or 7 GPP, and a 6 strand super string with no silencers, drawn 30" but what would that tell you? Nothing really.Cause most of us don't hunt set up like that.Heck you could even go with a 75 grain broadhead instead of a 150 grain head and pick up more speed.
Find a bow that suits you, fits your hand, draws smoothly to your draw length, is quiet upon release, shoots where you're looking, doesn't pinch your fingers, has the right physical weight for you, is visually appealing to you, and if it's faster than average that's all the better, but if it's not, and you can't kill game with it, it's speed won't be the reason.
:thumbsup:
I agree with Mickey.Since we are talking hunting bows how fast they will shoot a quiet arrow is really all that matters.So bows will shoot quieter with lighter weight arrows than others and still be pretty fast.Still it seems when everything is quietened down to the tone I want to hear the longbows wind up being the fastest hunting bows instead of recurves. :)
This thread is off on some odd tangents, but that's what makes for interesting discussions. ;)
Is speed important to me? Absolutely! Is speed the most important thing I want in a bow? Absolutely not. It's got to be smooth, shootable, forgiving, silent, appealing to my eyes, AND fast. If ANY of those things is missing in a bow, I'll pass on it. And I think you're saying the same thing.
The original question was about fast recurves. Lots of great bows were mentioned, but no one made any claims about breaking 200fps. Can a Black Douglas set up for hunting do it? No idea. I haven't even seen the new HEX-6 limbs, much less shot them (I've got XP-30 limbs). How could it be a bad thing if they did break 200fps and the other factors were unchanged? To me it means I could shoot a heavier arrow with a lighter bow and maintain the trajectory that my eye is used to. That's good stuff. :thumbsup:
There's not a bow made that's faster than a deer's reactions (or most other big game animals). Shoot a bow YOU LIKE. If you like it, it will like you back. When both you and your bow have learned each other's ways well, the two of you will make one heck of a hunting team!
Ed
Woody agree 100%. Yes we are saying the same things and I'm probably the one that sent this off on a tangent, but I see "what's the fastest bow" asked so often it drives me crazy, like speed is everything...and Dr Ed makes a very valid point.
A smoooth shooting, good looking, easy pointing, quiet 50# bow that would shoot a 500 grain arrow 200 FPS? I can't at all see how that would be a bad thing. That would be an awesome thing.
Imagine how quick that arrow would get there on a 7 yard shot. Heck there'd hardly be any arch in the trajectory at all :biglaugh:
Mickey,
I agree with all that you have said above, and I too get a little unnecessarily irritated at the "speed" questions that seem to pop up daily nowadays...when one can simply hit the search button and have 90% of the simple questions answered.
So I just threw out my go-to answer: Border.
I dunno if it'll break 200; mine was DARN close with about 9.7gpp, but I draw a tad over 30" anyway...so it was about 53@30" with XP30 carbon from the older XP20 form, and even per Sid, it was one helluva shooter.
So now its rivals are Bob Morrison with his bamboo, OL, and most others shooting ILF limbs.
I hear about some fast Widows, but they're shooting lower gpp, and I know my 3-day-old PMA II, which is 64", and 51 @ 29.5" is maybe mid-180's with a 515gr arra...
None of that makes a hoot of difference for the last 6 or 7fps some of these guys are looking for...but I like to "play" in the yard out to 70 yards and beyond, so I like somethin' quick, and flat shooting.
But yeah, it has to meet the other characteristics, or it won't cut it in the woods...
I dunno if the poster is a newbiw or not; didn't even check...and hopefully he'll read deeply into the post if he is just starting out...and play with a few until he finds one (or ten! LOL!!) to his liking.
Have a good'un Mickey...see ya tomorrow...
Marc
I'd also like to throw in Rose Oak as one that really excels in the speed dept, as well as looks and shootability. My King Panther, 67@30.5", shoots a 715 grain arrow in the 185 range. That is with a 8 1/4" brace height. Lower the arrow weight and you have a great shooting bow thats a real speed demon. I am with the rest of you though, I look for the whole package in a bow, and love my Rose Oak. There have been others in the past that I have loved as well, that also fit the bill in all the right areas, namely Brackenbury, Habu, and Wapiti. In my opinion, Wapitis are the most underrated bows made.
brack
ballistik
Longbow-ACS CX Adcock.
Recurve- DAS
Marc a good example for me is the Black Widow bows. Guys rave about them. Pay $800 -$1200 or more for them. I love their ads, love the looks of their bows, but have absolutely hated every one I've ever had in my hands and shot. I don't care if it shot 250 FPS, I wouldn't own a Black Widow.
(Now all you BW owners don't go getting your shorts in a wad, I'm sure they are fine bows I just don't care for them.) I also love the looks of the Pitsley Predators but didn't like them when I tried them.
On the other hand I love the hell out of my Rocky Mt Recurve, to me no finer bow was ever made. Pretty, sleek, smooth, accurate, easy to point but mine only shot around 174 fps, yet I carried it all over the US, Canada and Alaska for eight or nine years. My wife also loves her Rocky Mt and basically won't shoot anything else. If they shot 20 fps faster would that be bad? Heck no, that would be great, but the lack of 20 fps wasn't enough to keep me from hunting with one (quite successfully I might add) for nearly a decade.
I guess i see things a little different. I think you need to match your bow speed to the type of hunting you do.
I've hunted with the fastest bows on the market. While I agree the numbers tell you they aren't fast enough to beat a deers reaction time I have never had a single deer do it. I've also hunted with a bow that had to be the slowest bow in the world. I lost trac of how many deer watch the arrow creep its way and then simple side step it until I changed the way I hunted with it.
Mid range/speed bows provided some hits that scared the bageebees out of me. You know, the ones were the deer tries to get out of the way and the hit isn't what it would have been had the deer not moved.
I think there is a certian speed bows reach that you have much less to worry about, but those aren't reached with traditional equipment. I also think if your hunting with an all wood bow it darn sure better not make any noise. Shots should only be taken at deer unaware of your intentions.
Some people aren't willing or are unaware of the need to alter how they hunt. Those people need fast bows.
let me clear up things a bit my reason for posting is that i absolutely love bows and hunting being a x compound shooter I got bored with the sport that i love, hunting with a compound just wasn't doing it for me anymore when i picked up the old bear kodiac in my barn and started shooting it in feb of this year i was reborn so too speak i don't know how many arrows iv'e shot this year it's way up in the thousands.This web site has allowed me and countless others to progress in the sport and gain a wealth of information in months that would take years to gain from trial and error
testing my hats off to the people that keep this site going and archery lovers for sharing their
experience will i ever be happy with one bow
no, i want to own all of them eventually thanks again Ralph.
oh yea! the two bows i have set up are Bob Lee 58#@29 shooting 560 gr 2117 with first cut broadhead and Turkey creek longbow with 33-55
gold tips with 235 grs of wt up front total 478grs and magnus 125's opening day in ga tomorrow got a tree picked out now the wait!
QuoteOriginally posted by DarkeGreen:
Some people aren't willing or are unaware of the need to alter how they hunt. Those people need fast bows.
OR... They shoot heavy arrows at big hogs and want to be assured of penetrating the shield. OR... They are planning an Alaskan hunt and want to shoot an arrow with high kinetic energy. OR... when shooting 3D they want flat arrow flight with a 9 gpp arrow. Those are my reasons and I'm sure other folks have their own.
True Woody.Fast, stable and quiet aren't exclusive of each other. Today's bowyers are doing some amazing stuff. With many fellows moving down in weight for various reasons many of them want the most efficient bow they can get at lower weights and speed is one measure of efficiency that can be seen and compared.
It always amuses me how someone can post a simple question and it goes from guys offering up choices to fellows lecturing on why they don't need it or some such. It's his money and his decision. Hunt with what makes you happy and will do the job you want. Be it a selfbow, natural laminate, glass bow or carbon, there's a bow out there for everyone and thank goodness there isn't only one choice.
:thumbsup:
ok the most fastest lack of handshockedness quietest and most deadliest bow made lol
have fun and shoot!!!! Ralph
Well if your Turkey creek is anything like mine you already have the fastest with least shock. :)
James it is amazing a joy to shoot think i'm about ready for a double carbon Ralph
Mickey,
I hear ya about the BW...but I wanted a "standard" to compare some of my own projects against....and so far I will say that it's a very well crafted piece of work, but has some relatively minor shortcomings.
And let's just say that I picked it up from a very kind gent who had never even removed it from its wrapper, and I didn't pay even the low side of what you posted...I wouldn't have spent $900+ on one...
There is very little difference in 185 to 195fps, but given the choice, I will shoot a bow that has very stable shooting manners in the high 180's to near 200, vs. shooting one that has the same manners anywhere in the 170's.
(This is all based on 9 to 10gpp, by the way...)
**One caveat--this is stumping, yard shooting, and whitetails, etc....if I'm after something large, I'll gladly up arra weight, practice hard, and accept a much lower FPS.
Heck--Bob Morrison posted some results of his non-carbon bamboo Cheyenne, and if memory serves, it was about 6fps faster than some ultra high end ILF limbs on his new ILF riser. He's gotta be breaking 195+ with 10gpp.
And I had one of his 3-piece Dakotas that was easily 185+, and a 1-piece natural 'boo Cougar that was probably 195.
I probably should have kept the 3-piece, but I traded it off...and the 1-piece, well...it's original owner wanted her back, so home she went...
Take Care,
Marc
Brown Recluse bows really smoke arrows! Built for a brace height well under that of a longbow.
I've owned many bows but am now down to two. My main shooter is a Big East by Fedora Jr. I don't know if it is super fast, but it's faster than anything I've ever owned before. With the grip style (thumb locator which took some getting used to), and it's smooth draw and quiet shot, I've decided I found the one bow for me; at least for as long as I can easily draw it's 53# draw weight.
I assume the bows made by Fedora Sr. are of equal quality (I don't think they could be better quality, this is one sweet bow). If I were in the market for a new bow, I would go to either Fedora, or Morrison. I need to shoot a Morrison more to know for sure which one it would be.
Dave in Ft. Collins, CO
Mick....You and Di know I'm always available when ya'll get tired of shootin them Rocky Mountain Recurves...
Heck, I might even trade ya one of my 5 Black Widders!!!
Steve there's a Rocky Mt in the Classifieds.I think Brian Roness has it.
Yeah, I saw that one. Though I'm afraid that with a 52 inch bow and my 29"+ draw, it wouldn't be real fun to draw. I've learned to steer clear of bows less than 60 inches long.