Trad Gang

I have several spots,  stand 1 is in a 40 yard strip of woods that borders a power line on one side and a pasture on the other. Deer travel through this strip because of location and it is the highest elevation on the farm. Rut Stand for bucks visually looking down the hill for does while he is scent checking over his back.  Stand 2 &3 focus on a high point coming from a  hole in a wove wire fence I purposely cut. I have taken several deer from different stand locations in a NW wind. It is a good set up but old does have learned to look for me in this area. I passed several bucks in this area. Last year I hinge cut some trees to funnel them past my stand and offer them some comfort through thick ground cover. Stand 4 is set up at the end of a fence on a power line plus a food plot . Deer funnel  down the power line or around the end of the fence. The stand is in a big pine with great cover. The pinch point is only 20 yards across.  Hope to take several does at this location. Stand 5 is in the woods on an edge where old tree growth meets new thick growth and and old barb wire fence.  The new growth is square with deer traveling that edge come around the corner.  Also took some old woven fence and stretched it in the open part of the woods to steer the deer towards the corner. The stand is in a large pine. The deer traveled last year just out of range. Solution is to pile lines of old brush towards the stand. Hope to do some shooting at this stand late in the season.

I have been just learning about funnels and pinch points for the last two years...Manly because I bought a book called...Mapping Trophy Bucks by Brad Herndon. A great book on this subject. Any way last year I tried some of these techniques. In my favorite spot, I hunted it four times. All together I saw nine deer. Three of them were bucks. If you were sitting with me in my tree stand facing north below me about twenty yards  was slight hill that had pine trees along it and a dirt road. to my bottom left about was a field ( The reason the deer go around the field and by my stand is because it is very steep around the field and it is easier to walk around and then down) If you look straight North there is bench after bench that go up the side of the mountain. off to my right are some benches that funnel into  were my tree stand is. Also, to my right is an old power line that is over grown and runs up and down the mountain...One off the bucks had a rub line and would walk up and down the edge of it....I love this stand!!!

Pretty much all I hunt. I have found my spots from google earth, and was going to post but you can't tell anything from them.
I'm a huge fan of river or creek bottoms and the low side of ridges that border fields. All have served me well

I tend to hunt this type terrain in the early stages of the rut also. Suburban and farms near town can be some of the best hunting of the year.

This really kicks into gear the  last week of October in Ky.

Before this I want to be close to where they are bedding. Once they pair up, heaviest cover usually. Google Earth is a huge aid.

I have several good funnels and pinches. I tend to connect food and bedding with a pinch or hourglass. I also look for inside corners where a small strip of timber runs along a creek or ditch and crop fields.

I find that funnels flat work prerut for trollers and when the does are in season they tend to stick to the travel corridors of pinches, funnels, hourglass woodlots, and inside corners. My two largest bucks came through a narrow woodlot of only a few acres on their way to food source where the does where already feeding.

i agree %100 with  Knawbone, a "pinch point" is a very specific location sometimes with in the funnel itself other times just a certain piece of land with a very slight change in height, steepness or obstruction. i hunt a great funnel on the mountain and put my trail cam in the pinch point of that funnel.

Iv' shot quite a few Does over the years, mainly because they needed to reduced in numbers. But my real passion for hunting is Bucks and especially mature Bucks. Without getting too far off subject here, I'll tell you my reason for the prelude: Not all bucks think alike. And I do mean THINK. Some Bucks can be as dumb( or nieve)as a box of rocks while others are downright smart( for a dear).I have seen first hand mature Bucks escape death by thinking out of the box, and doing exactly the opposite of what any ordinary Buck would do. ( for lack of a better term)  Deer are like dogs, in that they all have( generally) a different personality.
Because of their differing personalities some are patternable and some are not, or so it would seem.Some are lazy and some are not. Some are extremely shy and passive, and some are not. You get the Idea. But what does this have to do with funnels you ask?
 Don't always assume a mature Buck will use a funnel in the same way as the rest of the Deer use it. Where as a Doe may travel threw in a predetermined spot or area, big boy may have other ideas. He never go's threw the same exact spot or trail and may go threw the middle of a field instead of that swath of brush or trees like the rest of his cronies. Always varying where and how he go's threw an area ( we're talking daytime movement here) He may go exactly the same trail every time, because that trail go's right threw the thickest nastiest place from place A to B.So thick and nasty that it's impossible to hunt it and get a shot. Some Bucks will create their own set trail to food or Doe holding areas,and will continue to use them until precieved danger changes their course. ( these are the Bucks I usually end up targeting )
I'm rambling again, but just some things to think about, for the young in the great sport of hunting with the stick and string.Funnels are a vast study in and of themselves as well as the Deer that use or even create them.

I really don't have the time right now to really get into this but I'm pleased to see how some of you guys are thinking. There are so many variables to consider. That's one of the reasons it's so much fun. The fact remains one of the most consistent things you can count on when dealing with whitetails is how they use the terrain. When I do my whitetail bootcamps in the spring one of the most common comments I get is how I focus on a structural feature then manipulate that structure to shift deer movement from maybe 25 yds. to under fifteen yards. It's not cheating, it's just common sense or smart hunting. Another very common mistake a lot of guys make is not looking at a big enough picture. They might be in the ballpark but most tend to only consider as far as they can see. I always try to point out you need to consider what's over the horizon. In other words if you are able to see say fifty yards in the timber to the horizon you need to top out and walk the timber om the other side to see if there's some structural deviation that will make a certain spot better than one that "appears" the same but might be only seventy yards (or whatever) away. If, for example there is a density, an edge, a stone wall or a beaver pond over the horizon you need to know about it and add it to the pieces of the puzzle. That fact alone will very possibly double your chances for success. Not only will this intense scouting build your confidence because you know you're in the right place, but it will also increase your self satisfaction when the big boy does exactly what you knew he would do. It wasn't just luck. And the best part is you'll be able to now adapt your new knowledge and utilize it for the rest of your life. Let me also say this is a great opportunity to spend time with the youngsters in a learning/teaching situation. Not only will you be handing down your knowledge but you'll have another opinion (their's) to maybe consider. You'll often find you just might learn something when considering their maybe more simple views. Good thread. Thanks. BW

Everyone should be attentive when a Wensel chimes in. Thanks for your input and advise Barry, not just for the young, but the seasoned hunter as well. Your thoughts and knowledge are always appreciated and respected,Please chime in again.

Im a firm believer in creating pinch points as well. Dont be afraid to use dead material laying around to close off trails and channel deer to other trails. or create funnels by making one trail or travel route better than another. like using a weed wacker to cut a skinny trail thru a high grass or crp area. using dead stuff to block water crossings and sway deer to cross at your crossing. The list goes on and on but when you scout in the offseason and finde spots that need a little adjustment in your favor that is the time to get creative. I actually shot a big doe 2 years ago on a stretch of a stream that had 2 major crossings 75 yards apart both spots on shallow flats with low banks. I took my tee shirt off and hung it at the upwind crossing and then walked in the water downwind to the other crossing and hunted. the only deer i was that night was a big lone doe that wanted to cross where my shirt was. when she caught wind of it she worked her way down wind to my crossing and bumped into a magnus before taking a long nap. so dont be afraid to fine tune bigger funnels into smaller ones or create them where you need them.

Several things I discussed came out of Barry's play book. The fence and the brush ideas. I have stands set aside to be hunted during the magically peak of the rut.  I  have walked after the season and gives me insight of why and where they travel across my property. You can take it one step further by planting cover, hinge cut, bush hog, etc. build it and they will come.

I have a place where two sloughs parallel themselves with a small ditch connecting them for drainage.  That ditch bank is a major deer highway.  On each side there are cutovers which provide bedding and a ridge in between that provides feed trees.  They follow the ditch to get to the feed instead of walking through the open slough.  It's a good place to fill the freezer but no big ones yet.

Also there is an island on the west side of one of the sloughs.   To the east of the island is a little finger that extends into the slough which makes it only a 30 yard crossing from the island.  Loaded with tracks back and forth (lots of night movement I think).  That island has as many hookings and scrapes during the rut than any area on the lease.  Only  problem is getting to the island or the finger undetected is fruitless..... and the deer know it.  Oh we could "nudge" them off the island with a little push and a stander in the finger but that wouldn't do the brutes on the island justice, so we get HIGH across the slough and keep trying to catch him in the finger.  All I need is for him to come back to his island a little late in the morning after running a doe for just a few to many minutes.  Then I'll feel I earned him a little more.

Speaking of fingers, don't pass up wooded points that jet out into fields. Especially corn and crop fields or overgrown fields used as travel corridors.These transitional areas draw Deer like a magnet. I miss the days I hunted farm land with it's mix of wood lots and fields, but the big woods where I hunt now are a challenge I enjoy.

Like Uncle Barry mentioned (and others) manipulation of the terrain is a good thing! As I recall on the great whitetail he killed a year ago he cut a small tree to "close off" a trail farther away from him to force the deer to a closer trail. I don't think it worked out as planned but he killed a monster nonetheless.

I think sometimes we don't do things like that enough. I use a deep ditch on a few of my sets and put my back to it with the wind in my face that blows to the ditch. On 3 of these sets I have hinged trees to create my own funnel. I have been amazed at how the deer seemed to take to this giving me a shot under 20 instead of being out of range.

I also like to use two "blockades" and hunt between. My favorite setup is a pinch between a pond and a ditch, north and south, with food east and bedding cover west. One tree has been responsible for 6 mature bucks in 12 years. I'd take that set over any other from Nov thru Dec with a south wind.

This is a great thread!
I need more of these type threads as I am just starting out.

Barry, I hope you find more time, as I would like for you to add more to this.

Would love to know more about this. The whys and how's of pinch points.
Would love to see and hear more explanations of them.
What do you look for as a possible pinch point?
You are scouting out an area that is new to you, what is it you are looking to find that may be a pinch point?
What would cause you to move brush so that you could develop them?
These are some of the questions I have.
I will be hunting mostly public land in big woods with no crop fields or farm land around.
Sorry I don't have anything to add as I just don't have the experience yet and you guys are my mentors so to speak so I am relying on you.
Thanks in advance

Fantastic thread!  I've often thought of starting a similar thread looking for input, but from a different perspective.

My main property is a standard 80 acre rectangle, 1/4 mile by 1/2 mile.  All wooded, the front 20 was farmed 50 years ago and has since grown thick (read bedding).  The back 60 is predominately hardwoods with small thick bedding pockets.  

The property is noticeably devoid of topographical variation or waterways.  Game trails are EVERYWHERE and I have a very hard time patterning these deer.  

While the front 20 is littered with bedded deer, I have two problems here:  one, I have to enter the property through this 20 acres, and have to travel through prime bedding to get to the rest of the property, and two, 20 acres is a BIG minefield to traverse, especially when the "mines" have eyes.  One good thing is I have clear, established trails to walk and can keep my noise level and unnecessary movement low.

Simply put:  I have a very hard time patterning these deer!  The property can and does get entered/exited by deer over a roughly 300 degree arc.  I may have to create some funnels where natural ones aren't present.  I'm comfortable moving dead material, but that's about it.

Thanks for all the great food for thought!

Wolfshead, Great questions and i too hunt the same situations as you. I would highly recommend buying the books writen by the Wensels. I have som many "how to hunt" books that i could open a used book store. But the ones that you will learn the most from will be books writen by the Wensels. They will anser every questions you ask adn give you sound common sense advise that you can use regardless of your huting situations. I understand how dificult huting big woods is. But you will soon se the beauty and the benifit from it. When you learn to hunt in the big woods. You learn to identify the subtle funnels and pichpoints. You will become great a turning a huge tract of land into huntable peices in your mind. 90% of the deer use 10% of the land. As Gene said in one of his books your job is to pick the one tree that most deer walk by the most often (might not be his exact words but that was how i remember the lesson). Once you can hunt well in the big woods every other type of hunting situation will seem very easy as the topography is so much easier and makes a bolder statement.

Mike, that set up sounds deadly. Water is great used the right way with your scent.
Pokerdaddy, I would create a visual barrier trail so you could access your back property. I would do this by hinge cutting or if it was open, plant Egyptian wheat. The other things I do is rake leaves with my tractor rock rake or by hand. Some guys use a leaf blower.  The deer will stay bedded as long as they do not see you and they have secure cover.

PokerDaddy,  cut a trail on the perimeter of the land and stay out of the bedding area.  Use the brush to pile up on bedding side of trail.

Thanks for all the nice comments above. I appreciate that. You'll notice one thing that jumps out regarding any "secret" techniques listed above, no matter what part of the country you live in or who you are, the fact remains time spent in the woods is your best bet for personal knowledge, understanding and woodsmanship skills. I absolutely don't intend for this to be a sales pitch for my annual whitetail bootcamps or persoanl preaching but it's a hard fact most folks can/will read theories, watch the videos or go to the lectures all well and good, but the truth is when someone takes you by the hand and points out the practical applications in the timber, the subtle differences of how a foot of elevation change will shift deer movement, light intensities or vegetation densities, etc., that's when it'll sink in and you'll really truly learn. And that knowledge will open the door to future opportunities and force you to think more about what you're seeing. I can't impress on people how much time spent in the woods with an open mind and some common sense is THE secret to hunting success. Find yourself a good, honest, dependable hunting partner and share the woodsmanship knowledge. Two heads are better than one. You'll both build confidence as well as knowledge. Then as you get older hand that earned knowledge down to the next generation to enjoy. Best of luck. bw

Barry's comment reminded me of a crossing my buddy found in a flooded swamp.  He never saw anything but does cross there, but it was a meat stand for sure.  It turned out that the deer were  leaving a bedding area being pushed by hunters coming in from the north.  Never understood exactly why they used that  particular spot until we visited the site in July ( We'd never gone there at that time of the year). Turned out for some reason the ground there was about 8" higher than the surrounding land (water on both sides and the first land to show itself in the dry).  The deer chose this spot to cross during the "drying" stage of the swamp, but continued using in when the water was up.

I found a great one this weekend basically a blown down big hardwood in a cedar thicket on a hillside, forces the deer thru a 15 yard gap.

I try to find the ones not so visible on a map, I hunt public land, and if I can see it so can everyone else.

I have also noticed pressured mature deer will often skirt the hard tight funnel, even if me means exposing the selfs in the open, thy can sense it getting tight, especially if they are homebody deer.

Deer coming from 3 miles away may not react the same.

I also find this to be even more common in wood lot and ditch country, with out lots of big cover. The big deer won't use the creek much during daylight, so ur creek crossing, u bend in the creek type stuff is not as productive. They would rather cruise the down wind side in the open. This is even more true in states without a gun season in the rut.

This is coming from public or pressured private I have hunted.

One more, this brought back a hunt 3 years ago on public land in western ks, I scouted a finger of brush about 3/4 mile of the main creek bottom.

It was up in the cow pasture had few hardwood trees 3 or 4 rest was cedars.

It was maybe 35 or 40 yards wide raneast/west, perfect, saw big tracks, and plenty of doe trafiic.

Cut me a whole in a cedar tree, got a towering 6 feet off the ground. Does tricked down the ditch till about 10am, there was crops 3/4 mile away to the west.

At 1030 am I heard a loud grunt a doe pops out, and so does a 150 8 point 22 inches wide. She walks by, he stops and never would come out of this group of cedars, maybe 10 or 15 of them 7 to 8 feet tall. He went back in the there walked around all day, layed down, I could she his feet, he was about 30 yards away. All afternoon little bucks would walk up and down this finger get in the cedars and come flying out, he would run them off. I sat there till dark, he never would come out.

Long story short, I had a cedar tree on each side of the ditch, the wind would change I would get in the other. I hunted this buck for 4 days, at 830 am u could about set ur watch to italmost he would come running from the wide open from a different direction every am and would check does as they came down the finger from this patch of cedars.

I knew it was a matter of time, but never could get him to come out. The only time he did come out the windwas blowing 30 to 40 miles per hour.

Other hunters invalided the area and the jig was over, but very interesting.

Icon 1 posted September 02, 2013 05:22 PM      Profile for Keb   Email Keb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote  I found a great one this weekend basically a blown down big hardwood in a cedar thicket on a hillside, forces the deer thru a 15 yard gap.
Quote:
I try to find the ones not so visible on a map, I hunt public land, and if I can see it so can everyone else.

I have also noticed pressured mature deer will often skirt the hard tight funnel, even if me means exposing the selfs in the open, thy can sense it getting tight, especially if they are homebody deer.

Very true, especially Bucks that have survived a season or two! (or three, or four ,or five.)

While there are guys that have way more knowledge about whitetails then I do. I do know this, it's about the spot, if you got low pressure private ground in certain places, I feel u can use the normal methods.

If you don't the best you can hope for is a miracle or average sucess using average tactics. Big deer on public and pressured ground are a different animals.

I killed a toad of a buck this last year off the same chunk of public ground, same type of set up just an even dumber spot. Buck had a nice creek line he could have followed to get to the thicket to scent check it, he'll he could have done it 1/2 mile away. What does he do walk across a wide open pasture quatering in the wind, does a j hook just to get a wif, to late arrow on the way. End of buck.

I may have gotten of topic, but I guess my point is, all this deer do this deer do that gets jammed down our throats, when in fact the deer do what they feel is in there best interest, based on the whole picture, not because you or I read in a book a funnels is a sure thing.

Any thoughts on manipulating your area to create pinch points or "preferred" travel routes (e.g., relocating deadfall to create pinches, using some line to slightly pull down one strand of a wire fence, etc...)?

I know that it can be effective, but do more of you prefer to read existing terrain to determine where deer will be or do you manage the terrain to put the deer where you want them?

  :confused:  

Kingsnake

QuoteOriginally posted by awbowman:
PokerDaddy,  cut a trail on the perimeter of the land and stay out of the bedding area.  Use the brush to pile up on bedding side of trail.

X2, I have a property I hunt that is the same in a lot of ways.  Little different layout for woods and open, but a basic 80 with a little roll.  I have to come in from the  west so can also get winded easy most days.  I keep a good trail down both sides and part of the back side of the property for access.  I hike a long ways most times to get around and in.  I pick the route with the least sign each year.  I do this particularly in the dark when it is real hard to figure where deer could be.  

Walking in through a bedding areas is not always a bad thing in the morning if you don't leave a bunch of scent right where they bed.  You just need them to be   feeding off someplace else.  That way you get past the bedding area and set up for when they come in.  Leave the other way to get out and circle around them.

A lot of the travel routes are not easily identified on this type of land.  You see trails going all over.  Many are used at night as deer run all around.  That is different than day time traveling.  A lot of times it is a little elevation change, a line of bushes, a gap in trees and so on.  Often it is not the travel line, but the convergence of many of them that is the spot to be.  Maybe a high ground area or patch of cover that is a hub vs a funnel.  

Get an aerial and stare at it.  You would be surprised what you may see from a different perspective.  There is always something that will direct deer.  Look outside the properly.  There could well be something on the adjacent property that impacts travel like fence gaps and cover fingers leading in.   Even other hunters near the line can move deer around or between them.  Way more of the travel on the ground I hunt is dictated by the property and hunters on our perimeter than by the property I am on.  The deer often are going from point A to B through. They move the travel line around a little year to year, but they are keying on an entry and exit.  Often the best hunting is on the sides of the property rather than in the middle due to what is around you when you are on a property that has few features.   Find a key spot and the fringe and get back off it a little.

Do some logging.  That will create all kinds of stuff like open areas for Low growth to spring up for bedding or clear for food plots, narrow cover areas for travel, plus obstructions.  60 acres of woods just setting there is not a lot of good for hunting most times if it has few features.  You would be better getting a few bucks to cut some trees and put that back in property development. Creating better bedding places and feed areas separated from each other will create travel.

There was some logging a couple years ago and a pile of tops got left in the corner of the woods on the other side of a little hill behind the barn.  The tops run down to a pond on the neighbors.  The deer used to come in that area of the property over an area about 75 yards wide and would go in a couple directions.  Now they all go around the tops keying more on one depression. The travel area is about 35 yd wide now plus hard for them to get down wind of the funnel.  If you set in the middle, you can cover the whole area.  It is much improved and took almost nothing to do it.  I should have dropped a couple trees there years ago.

Kingsnake, I'm of the first school, that is reading the terrain and deciphering whats going on with the Deer.My own land is only 75 acres and it is relatively close to habitation. I can find Does on it any time of year during day lite hours, but the Bucks are a different story. Rare in deed to see a buck older than a year and a half during the day, and thats a year round thing. Now things change when those Does start to pop, and I have killed or have seen the occasional two and a half year old but thats even rare. My land has a couple of good funnels, and I have found no need to manipulate how the Deer move. Also the 500 acres of state forest behind my property can only be manipulated in non distructive  ways, so even if I had the spare time, there is only so much I can do.

With that said, I enjoy the time I get to hunt and relish being able to use my earned woodscrafts to get one step ahead  of a mature Buck. No sighn of any monsters or even any Big Bucks in the 12 or so years Iv' hunted here, but thats far from top priority to me. Bucks don't have to be huge to be smart, they only need to stay alive in NY for a couple three seasons. So to answer your question, I guess I most enjoy just hunting them the way the land is for the most part. Just go out and hunt and see what you can do!  If I had more free time and resourses, and had time to find and gain access to prime big buck spots, then I could go nuts. The reality is I don't, but I'm damn proud of the successes Iv' had. More importantly it's been a lot of fun and I always feel closer to God in the woods.

I do a lot more hog hunting than deer hunting these days but the theory on funnels applies to both. This is a funnel we have one of our double stands on. It's good for all but a south wind(and would even work for that if they come from the SE or East)You can see that the game moves through this pinch point from all but the SW.It's a new spot but I think it will be a winner this fall/winter.(weird looking bucks,huh?)
  (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/tarponnut/PinesStand.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/tarponnut/media/PinesStand.jpg.html)
 (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/tarponnut/bigtanboarpines.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/tarponnut/media/bigtanboarpines.jpg.html)
 (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/tarponnut/bowlingballboaratpines.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/tarponnut/media/bowlingballboaratpines.jpg.html)

Kingsnake, I do both. I find what I think is a nice pinch or inside corner via map or google earth, then walk it during the offseason. I try to pick two spots for two different winds...here is either north or south with some westerly tilt sometimes. That is key and first.

Then if within my pinch, inside corner or hourglass if I can move the deer a little closer then I do. Dropping a tree or taking limbs from shooting lanes and building an obstacle on a farther trail to get them closer is really what I am talking about. Sometimes it works and sometimes they jump the stinkin thing.

I also do the opposite. If I have a trail running right under the perfect tree that just gives me an awful angle I will do the same thing with those brances or hinging a sapling. Create an obstacle so that they will swing away from me offering a better shot. I did that with a set this weekend. Two trails one right under me that is just not gonna work. The farther one is better. I cut shooting lanes with my rubber gloves and created a place where by taking the further trail they give me 15 yards instead of one straight under me...by the way, I learned that in a book, and since then I have had to see a taxidermist more than once  :)

Ok My A#1 early season local hunting spot is a prime example how maps and Google earth help, but scouting is paramount in putting meat on the table...

Joe Kurz WMA in GA is near ATL, and has 2 wks early bow season and 2 3day lottery style quota hunts a year... lately has also had 5-7 days after the gun hunts open for Archery sign in... It has a 15in spread and 4pts on one side minimum... Usually a few nice deer are taken there every year... Due to its proximity to the population center around ATL.. the deer have PHD's in hunter avoidance....

 (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/sgtslasher/TextbookFunnel_zpscd794112.jpg) (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/sgtslasher/media/TextbookFunnel_zpscd794112.jpg.html)

This is a picture perfect funnel... I over looked it as it is only 65-75 yds from a road open to vehicle traffic... I found it by always spooking deer out of there on my way to more remote greener pastures... Only one problem, this is the early season hot spot...

A lil scouting provided me with the WHY??? The woods are a hardwoods (read oaks that don't start dropping till October) bottom that runs down the center of the woodline... The south edge of the woods has a good amount of persimmons that tend to produce well in the early season... In the bottom there are a fair amount of muscadines that love the moist ground in the wettest area of the bottom... and where I showed on the South side of the bottom are a couple crabapple trees that ALWAYS produce!!!

A fair amount of deer cheat the funnel by 35-45 yds from the North or South east sides and head straight for the goodies... some sneak in from the southwest side field edge after working the persimmons...    :knothead:

So while looking at the picture It would seem the tight bottle neck is the spot, Barry's advice is spot on here... it is the scouting and experience from time on stand that gives me the confidence year after year to know where to set up and adjust for the wind and have a pretty good chance to make meat in the early season...

However, once the muscadines and crabapple ares gone, the movement shifts... Mostly it is antlerless deer in the early season, yet on one overcast day years ago, I ran an arrow through a P&Y buck from a stand right where I was looking, in the early season... too bad it was his rack as I was counting points as he cleared the muscadines and moved to the crabapples...   Yet I have tagged a few antlerless deer from this spot over the years and have shot opportunities about 70% of the time I hunt an evening stand there in the early season...

Hope it helps!!

Very much enjoying this thread.  Thanks guys.

I am enjoying it as well. I am particularly interested in how you guys read the elevations on a very flat piece of ground. What i mean is no more than a 2 to 3 foot ridges running thru some swamp land. We dont have huge ridges here in MS so reading them is hard sometimes. Also what exactly is an inside corner?

One of my favorite stands is along a creek at a deer crossing. What's unique about this stand site, the creek is at its shallowest section which is about 6 inches at its deepest. It's no less 3 feet deep for 200 yards up stream and 200 yards down stream. The deer can cross any where if they need to but I have found out they prefer to cross a creek at the shallow areas. I guess you can call this a pinch point.

Here is my stomping ground. The stars are where I usually found games there. This is a 150 acres private land that I have access to.

The property is relatively flat, it's Texas.

You can see there are quite a few natural trails created by water run-off. Some of these trails are large enough for games to use as thoroughfare.

There is a deep pond on the middle of NE quadrant. I usually find hogs there and lots of time ducks.

  (http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz171/Daytripper7131/smallmap_zpsba5356d5.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/Daytripper7131/media/smallmap_zpsba5356d5.jpg.html)

David,
The red arrow is pointing to an inside corner.

Good stuff.  Thanks everyone for the info.

I have a couple of funnels I won`t hunt till late October in the swamp. They are all creek crossings between big cane thickets. I have one tree at the one in thickest cover I have killed 10 deer from. I save them till then because the activity triples then and I don`t stink`m up early. I would rather hunt feed trees till the rut for a truck load of does...maybe.RC

Got it. I am a visual learner so that helped a ton. Great thread

Wow this is really a great thread! I hunt public land and it takes time to investigate the areas. I think that I will try the google map pictures as suggested(I read it on someone's comments). Thanks
Tom

For those of you Who Hunt in Pa if you go on to the game commission web site they have a web page that you can go to that has topo maps. You can make notes, mark spots etc. very helpful for finding those funnels.

What you guys mean by "hinge cut" trees?

The whole tree cut down similar to a blown down  except roots intact and trunk attached or cut hanging limbs? Am trying in get a better picture in my head...

Oops, forgot to add my two cents about these travel corridors...8^)

Some of these are directional.... Deer may pass through a funnel area one direction at one location, yet another location coming from the other direction due to terrain, structure, wind, etc... I try to split the difference...8^)

I just wrote a fairly lengthy reply and while I was dragging my cursor across to edit it I hit "full reply form" below. Not sure what that is so I'm starting over. If this comes out a double post I apologize. Anyway, I know some people who "girdle" trees. That's when you run a saw around the bark of a tree cutting deep enough to eventually kill the tree but leaving it standing. The problem with that is the tree eventually dies but falls whatever the direction the wind happens to be blowing that day. If you're a decent sawyer you can drop a tree in the direction you want it to lay. This will be beneficial to nudging game movement closer to your ambush site or whatever. An even better option is to "hinge cut" the tree. You cut the tree trunk just enough to topple the top the direction you want it to go. But you don't cut it all the way through, thus like a door hinge. This way the tree often will not die and will retain it's leaves and even grow volunteer shoots in the future by drawing water/nutrients from the roots. This offers two benefits. First the continued foliage will remain a food source and at the same time will establish more ground cover/density. It will also open up the overhead canopy to allow sunlight in to generate even thicker understory with more food options as well as cover. It's a win/win situation. BW

My all time favorite. The site of many a successful hunt, everything running the river gets squeezed down to an area about 40 yards wide. In the right tree it's a chip shot.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e173/Yellowdog3822/4A48C2E0-560A-4DD3-8DC0-B879EB94E76A-2125-0000040FE4B6D61E_zps399249a3.jpg)

Thanx Barry, kinda what I was picturing in my head, except not thinking it was still alive. Cool, that'll work, thanx for sharing...

Come to think of it, I have a nature hinge tree on my property where years ago a big deadfall over a smaller tree forcing it pretty vertical a few feet off the ground but did not kill it. As you say, it opened up the canopy and the live tree now has limb shoots reaching straight up off the main trunk. First time it seen it, it caught eye and thought it was pretty cool and unique, but never thought about purposely do so. Hmmm, that'll work, again thanx for sharing...

OK, let's play a game.  Here is Bill's Farm.  You can go to Google Earth and play along.  If you were given the opportunity to hunt here, tell us where and why you would choose a place from Google Earth alone.
  (http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r607/jdscifres/BillsFarm.png)  

This is a hypothetical situation.  I have no idea who owns this property in Southern Indiana.

Here are the coords to plug into Google Earth.

  (http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r607/jdscifres/BillsFarmcoords.jpg)  

Open GE and plug them in.  Post some screen shots of your answers if you can.

Zbone,  I have been working on an area about two acres this evening. It was open woods on the side of a hill. I went in there and hinge  cut trees  that were no benificial to the wildlife.  The really big trees, I girdled like Barry explained.  Mostly, they were big maples that really block out the canopy.  You can see the oaks and young poplar trees starting to grow as the sun hits the forest floor.  I have also planted hybrid oaks from Native Nurseries in tree tubes. It looks like a mess or a tornado came through but an area that never was used by the deer will now become a bedding or santuary. You can set your stands  to use this  in your  favor. Make your own funnel or pinch point by your own design.  One way to enjoy your season all year long.  You can identify and mark trees now while the leaves are on and hinge cut them in the spring. I do not cut any mast wildlife trees or oaks.

QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
OK, let's play a game.  Here is Bill's Farm.  You can go to Google Earth and play along.  If you were given the opportunity to hunt here, tell us where and why you would choose a place from Google Earth alone.
   (http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r607/jdscifres/BillsFarm.png)  

This is a hypothetical situation.  I have no idea who owns this property in Southern Indiana.

Here are the coords to plug into Google Earth.

   (http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r607/jdscifres/BillsFarmcoords.jpg)  

Open GE and plug them in.  Post some screen shots of your answers if you can.

This is exactly what I need!
I don't have the experience to add anything but would greatly appreciate learning what you all have to offer!

If you hunted in mountainous terrain, some flat areas but mostly grades all over and ridges small and large valleys all that.. would it be true that most of the time the deer will move through in low spots?
weather it was on a flat or the steeper ridge sides any depressions in the terrain, that the deer would prefer to travel the depressions rather than walk normal ground?

i ask because it seems most posting here are hunting low lying areas or semi flat ground. how does this come into play when hunting mountain ground. i dont hunt a single ridge that is uniform. there is all kinds of stuff going on as far as land elevations. i know kinda confusing but i hope you understand.

here is one of the areas, if you zoom out a bit and go south east you will see in green game lands 73A.
also at the top right of the screen you can see how you can change views into topo

   http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=40.26938,-78.39312&z=15&t=R&marker0=40.26957%2C-78.38127%2C6.1%20km%20ExNE%20of%20Dunning%20Mountain%20PA

QuoteOriginally posted by RedShaft:
If you hunted in mountainous terrain, some flat areas but mostly grades all over and ridges small and large valleys all that.. would it be true that most of the time the deer will move through in low spots?
weather it was on a flat or the steeper ridge sides any depressions in the terrain, that the deer would prefer to travel the depressions rather than walk normal ground?

i ask because it seems most posting here are hunting low lying areas or semi flat ground. how does this come into play when hunting mountain ground. i dont hunt a single ridge that is uniform. there is all kinds of stuff going on as far as land elevations. i know kinda confusing but i hope you understand.

Even in the mountainous areas deers are still use the saddles as thoroughfare. They are also use the flat "benches" that staggered on the side of the hill. Deers will always take the least resistant path when traveling through steep/difficult terrain. If there is a way to go around an obstacle, deers will use it. My two cents.

This is one of my all time favorite post already. I'm not experienced enough IMO to add anything so I'll just sit back and learn   :notworthy:

Big Fan of funnels...one funnel in particular turned me Traditional.

I gave up gun powder in my late 20's...and one Oct 17th I killed two bucks and a doe in 13 minutes with my compound....that evening lead me to the stickbows.

I'd love to add to this thread...once I find time...got a bear to chase tomorrow.

  :campfire:

Brad, I agree with the mountainous terrain. Look up Ashe county, NC and you will see the type of terrain I hunt. I have hunted PA mountains before. Grew up in Delaware. I think  mountains are easier to hunt than totally large flat ground .  I went out to Iowa and could not believe the ground. Iowa was ideal. Our biggest problem is inconsistent wind where I live.  I hunted parts of West Virginia and the trees grow out of the mountain side ways.

   (http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh472/ishoot4thrills/Farm_zpscd59a787.png~original) (http://s547.photobucket.com/user/ishoot4thrills/media/Farm_zpscd59a787.png.html)

There's a few funnels on the farm I hunt. It's all flat land. Stand sites are marked with a black dot. Property boundaries are marked with a thin black line. Note the creek line where most of my stands are near. I have trad kills at two of the stand sites and trad misses at one site. Have had trad shot opportunities at all but one stand site. Deer population levels are low after crops are harvested and after the rut is over. There's just not enough cover to hold a large number of deer but there's still enough movement to keep my interest high through late November.

Great stuff here, lots of valuable info!  

Eric

QuoteOriginally posted by RedShaft:
If you hunted in mountainous terrain, some flat areas but mostly grades all over and ridges small and large valleys all that.. would it be true that most of the time the deer will move through in low spots?
weather it was on a flat or the steeper ridge sides any depressions in the terrain, that the deer would prefer to travel the depressions rather than walk normal ground?

i ask because it seems most posting here are hunting low lying areas or semi flat ground. how  
does this come into play when hunting mountain ground. i dont hunt a single ridge that is
uniform. there is all kinds of stuff going on as far as land elevations. i know kinda confusing  
but i hope you understand.

Redshaft, I live and hunt southern NY state only 12 miles from PA border. If your familiar with the hills of PA then you know the type of terrain I hunt. I hunt mainly ridges, especially when the Dear are targeting acorns as a main food supply. And there is one case in point. The Deer will move or travel for differing reasons(ie food, bedding, mating, weather protection, protection from preditors. They are an amazingly adaptable animal and can be found almost anywhere their needs are meet. Hills, mountains, flats, fields up high and fields down low. There are certainly preferences as to how they travel within a certain ecosystem be it hill or dale, but as you learn the behaviors of the animal, you become more adept to figuring out the where's and when's.

One terrain type is not neccasarilly better than another, it's just all relevent to the factors mentioned above.
If your hunting ridges and hilly or mountainous land, you can kill plenty of Deer. Again, you just have to learn all you can about the animal itself an how it uses that paticular terrain.

This is really good stuff!  I can't remember the last time I hung a stand in something that wasn't a funnel!  But here is one thing I have learned over the years.  For a funnel to be good the deer have to have a good reason to use it in the first place.  
    For example, in October a funnel will probably be best if it is located between a known bedding area and a feeding area, and hopefully closer to the bedding area.
   Here is something kind of interesting.  Last year I had a trail camera up for a month in what looked like a great funnel.  I put it up in mid August and checked it in mid September.  All I had on the camera were the same few does that would move through every few days.  Not a single buck.  
  Then in November, I saw the biggest buck of the season move through that funnel.  I was in a different location and did not get a shot at him but I was close.
   Anyway, that night I put the camera back in there in the same spot as I had it earlier in the year.  I left it there for a week and when I checked it I had 3 nice bucks move through during daylight, and 4 or 5 others at night including some real nice ones.  That doesn't sound like a ton of action but this is in a heavily farmed area where deer densities are very low.  3 bucks moving through this funnel during daylight in a 1 week period is good for this area.  
  Guess where I now have a stand hung?  I won't even step foot in there until about the 4th of November.  We will see how it goes.

Jon simmoneau, Best of luck to you, sounds like a good setup.   :thumbsup:

Thanks Knawbone.  Good luck to you too this season!

One other thing guys, I went to Uncle Barry's bootcamp this spring.  When he talks about manipulating a spot, I doubt most people really knows what he means until you see it with your own eyes.  My buddy and I were absolutely flabbergasted at the work and details that go into each of his stand sites.  It was fun for me to see the kinds of spots Gene and Barry hunt but I learned a few things and saw some things that I don't know if I would have ever picked up on by myself.  And I've just about got all their books completely memorized! No kidding!
   I remember one guy there said "So Barry, do you completely walk out each and every trail on the land you hunt?"  Barry said "Pretty much." He had a look on his face like "Doesn't everybody?" HA!  What a great time.

My favorite spots for sure. Here are a couple of shots of places I hunt. Lucky the leaves were down when the pic was taken so you can see the terrain.
 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/jjeffer/Mobile%20Uploads/terrain2_zps7a6714fb.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/jjeffer/media/Mobile%20Uploads/terrain2_zps7a6714fb.jpg.html)

 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/jjeffer/Mobile%20Uploads/terrain1_zps635f7cba.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/jjeffer/media/Mobile%20Uploads/terrain1_zps635f7cba.jpg.html)

Some real good funnels here.

Jon: I can't tell you how much I enjoyed both you and Ryan this spring. The fact you guys were like sponges absorbing all the minor details was very refreshing for me. I really got a lot of self-satisfaction and faith in the future when I see the enthusiasm young guys like yourselves radiate. That's what it takes. Ryan has kept me posted on what you guys have been doing and I'm downright proud of your efforts and attitudes. When it all comes together you're going to get a ton of satisfaction out of your efforts. Now you guys will need to keep an eye out for a bootcamp on how to stay calm and keep your cool when it all falls into place. Ha. Best of luck guys and thank you! BW

Thanks Barry, but the pleasure was all ours.  We now live hours away from each other but we spent most of the drive home talking about what we learned and what we were gonna do next.  In fact, hunting is about all we talk about!  We have been putting a lot of it in motion, but next season we will really be on top of it after the postseason scouting season.  You know, my buddy Ryan was never real big on computers, but he's got them down now.  He must have your email on "speed dial!"  Don't worry, we will keep you posted on how it goes this year.  Thanks!

Man I wish I was in a place where I could've made to Barry's bootcamp, hopefully next time. Anyways I went out this morning and put to use a lot of what I've learned here to use. I hinged a couple trees and moved some dead wood to make a funnel within a funnel a little better. Thanks again for the great info!

What about a way to stop your buck in the perfect spot after days of siting in funnels and he finally comes by?  Whitetail fanatic Bobby Worthington places mock scrapes in all of his rut funnels.  He doesn't do it to attract bucks from afar, but rather to stop them naturally where he wants his shot to come from.  This way you don't have to grunt at them to stop them.  I think grunting at deer to stop them does two things.  For one, it can alert the buck to your presence. For two it makes you look like a dude on the Outdoor Channel! HA!   Gene Wensel has been doing his Wicked Wick experiment which seems like another good way to do this.  I have a spot in a very tight funnel with extremely thick cover comprised of honeysuckle.  I will most likely put a large mock scrape right in there where I want my buck to stop simply because it is so thick that by the time I would see the buck he may have passed my range.  I think things like this are great ideas and fun to mess with.

Another option is my "Bowling for Bucks" trick where you run a bead of gel scent around a hedge apple/osage orange and throw/roll it through your shooting lane. The buck comes by, smells the ground where the ball rolled through and because of directional tracking stops broadside and looks the other way in your shooting lane. orks for me. bw

Jonsimoneau, I do the same thing. Though during the seeking faze of the rut have had them blow by it. The reason I have found i my area, after Halloween scrapes leaf over and don't get used. So I have to do the outdoor channel grunt. But I started just saying hey or hi. I actually works the same for me

That's a good point Jon. Thanks for the idea

Yea Barry I remember you talking about the "bowling for bucks" idea. That one is probably the easiest one to do. I'll be giving that one a shot this fall. Nothing more frustrating than having the big boy troll through to fast without offering a shot!

Awesome thread right her fellas..... been coming back to this one and learning more each day. I have a spot I have hunted for 3 years now and killed 4 deer from. Hunted it enough now to know pretty much the two directions the deer travel. They do wander a little too much so I am going to get more aggressive and do some blocking and opening to up my chances for a 15yd shot.

One of the first times I hunted this spot I was in the "Y" where two trails went around a tree
and just knew they would take the upper part of the "Y" and give me the perfect shot. The part of the overgrown clearcut was more open and was actually a skidder path. They didn't, they took the other trail and due to a partially toppled tree next to my stand tree I had no shot....  :knothead:  

Lesson learned.... be more aggressive, go with your gut and block the other trail stupid !!! Keep it coming fellas, this is good stuff right here.....  :campfire:

Jon, I went to Barry's a few years ago. One thing I brought back was preparation before the season and the management aspects. One of my college professors told me to spend 3 hrs of studying for each hour of class time. I kind of do this with my deer hunting.

Hinge cutting for you guys with private lands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvYXo1FCCzI