Can anyone compare these two, especially in terms of speed and quietness?
I can't but can attest the BFs are very smooth, quiet and fast. I have two sets of them and love them.
Thanks. I'm trying to decide whether to buy another Widow or try an ILF rig next spring. Hear great things about those limbs, just not sure if I want to go the ILF route or not.
Really it's apples and oranges. The Ilf limbs are better then the Widow limbs in every way you could imagine.
Also you have the choice of so many ILF risers too.
Mike
OH NO! Guess I better sell both my Widows. NAH
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
Really it's apples and oranges. The Ilf limbs are better then the Widow limbs in every way you could imagine.
Also you have the choice of so many ILF risers too.
Mike
I was eyeing the new Black Magic 17" riser to go with the BF limbs.
What is really better about the extreme bf limbs that is totally unimaganible is that they are made offshore. Offshore countries really promote traditional archery here in the good ole USA. Myself, I will stick with an American made product for an American Tradition. Mike
Widows are smooth, quiet and fast. I would stick with Black Widow.
What are the specs on that black widow again? 2x4?
Kidding. To each his own.
Just wanted to see the facts. Looks like the BF extreme shoots the same fps as the widow according to Blacky? Also, the widow has a 5 year warranty and the bf extreme 1 year. Imagine that!
http://www.bowreports.com/index.php/modern-recurve-a-longbows-ilf-system-or-adjustable-limbs/item/********-titan-riser-carbon-extreme-bf-limbs.html?category_id=88
Blacky has a report on these limbs the results are good But you can do as well or better with limbs from BW or Dryad or Morrison. And you are buying from folks who love to hunt!
BTW Mikes Dryad limbs are also smooth fast and quiet. AND made in the good ole USA. Had a set of Epics and loved them.
QuoteOriginally posted by leftyfred:
Just wanted to see the facts. Looks like the BF extreme shoots the same fps as the widow according to Blacky? Also, the widow has a 5 year warranty and the bf extreme 1 year. Imagine that!
http://www.bowreports.com/index.php/modern-recurve-a-longbows-ilf-system-or-adjustable-limbs/item/********-titan-riser-carbon-extreme-bf-limbs.html?category_id=88
The black widow limbs are at a higher brace height of 8 5/8" vs 7 7/8" which put them at a slight power stroke disadvantage. Still they managed to equal the BFEs. Thats pretty decent for plain wood and glass limbs. Good design I guess.
Thanks for the Blacky link. I'd much prefer a Widow if performance is that close.
Definitely stick with the Widow. Hard to beat
I think I'm going to order a 60" PA Ironwood with Asbell grip to go with my PSA next spring. Should be nice companions.
That would be sweet. I plan on getting a PSA about 5 lbs heavier in the next year or two just for easier traveling if I want to go somewhere. I love that length riser.
We lovingly refer to offshore manufactured equipment here as "hungyungguy". There are some many phenominal bows made in the US, one would half to be totally anti-American to carry anything else. I think it takes a strong group such as ourselves, Traditional Bowhunters, to take a course of action that keeps this cool American thing we call "bowhunting", - American. I truly believe that with all the good used equipment these days, one can afforadably find a bow that is right there in performace with the best at a reasonable price. Be proud of that used American made stik, work hard, save your money, then order that once in a lifetime custom that you've always dreamed of. Buy American! Mike Pyeatt
Well Said Mike! I'm blessed enough to have 2 once in a lifetime bows and love seeing USA written on them. :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by leftyfred:
We lovingly refer to offshore manufactured equipment here as "hungyungguy". There are some many phenominal bows made in the US, one would half to be totally anti-American to carry anything else. I think it takes a strong group such as ourselves, Traditional Bowhunters, to take a course of action that keeps this cool American thing we call "bowhunting", - American. I truly believe that with all the good used equipment these days, one can afforadably find a bow that is right there in performace with the best at a reasonable price. Be proud of that used American made stik, work hard, save your money, then order that once in a lifetime custom that you've always dreamed of. Buy American! Mike Pyeatt
Thanks again guys. Made that decision much easier.
What I prefer about the ILF limbs is the adjustability of about 4-5 lbs. depending on the limb and riser. Nice to go from 48#'s to 52#'s come hunting season.
I have a set of Zipper carbon foam and a set ACS-RC carbon wood, both are phenomenal.
I also like that I can set the tiller at O for split finger, which is where I get virtually no hand shock.
I have two risers and two sets of limbs and when I switch them around I can go as low as 42#'s to 55#'s, about anything I would want to hunt with two bows.
All made in the USA.
I would go with an ILF rig as Mike said you have a ton of options in limbs. I have owned a lot of Widows, at least 15 and although good bows they are not that fast, they are not that quiet but can be made quiet and you will be stuck with Widow limbs. The ILF you can shoot longbow limbs, recurve limbs, static limbs and target limbs. You will find that even some of the inexpensive limbs will outperform the Widows. I had a set of Sebastian Flute limbs that were $125 new and everything equal they were 11 fps quicker than the Widow MA I had at the time. You can buy a used or new ILF riser and a few sets of brand new ILF limbs for the cost of a new Widow. To me not much of choice on which way to go. Remember Widows are made here but some of the woods and the hardware are not, again not bashing Widows. They have the best customer service out there but you will be limiting yourself so much its not funny!! Oh by the way lots of ILF stuff made right here in the USA as well, Morrison, Dryad(riser and limbs)and even Jim Neaves(Centaur)is making ILF limbs and many others as well!! Shawn
Apparently I "half to be totally un-american" because I carry a hoyt excel with bmax carbon limbs.
Sorry, I can't afford a widow yet. Until then, should I apply for my green card? Perhaps I can mail it to you can you can decide for me leftyfred.
Those BF Extremes ain't cheap...a set of them and a nice riser will run about the same as a Widow.
Thanks for the different perspective Shawn. All in all, it's too close to deer season to worry much now. We'll see how my PSA and I do in my first trad season and go from there. Shooting it very well by my standards now, so there should be done deer on the ground by early October.
You can buy a riser and a set of Borders for less than a Widow and I promise you the Borders will flat out smoke a Widow in all aspects. Belcher makes a nice riser and limbs as well and again they are American for the folks that seem to get worry too much and they too will be cheaper than a Widow and again outperform one in every way. Shawn
I checked out the Borders a bit, they sound interesting. The Hex 6 sounds like an awesome limb.
Right, I still have not heard that Ken Beck gave away any bows from his offer of a couple of years back. I sincerely doubt the Border will outperform a Widow in every way. Please substantiate your claim. I'm sincerely interested. Actually I've never even heard of a Border Bow?
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
You can buy a riser and a set of Borders for less than a Widow and I promise you the Borders will flat out smoke a Widow in all aspects. Belcher makes a nice riser and limbs as well and again they are American for the folks that seem to get worry too much and they too will be cheaper than a Widow and again outperform one in every way. Shawn
I don't know much about ILF platforms, but I know that everybody who sees me shoot my widow comments on how fast it is. Pushing a 545 grain arrow (10.28 gpp) at 184 fps is fast enough for me.
Made in Scotland.
The borders that is.
What's your draw length Greg?
I only pull that thing about 27 inches. Pulling 53 pounds at that draw. 60" PMA II.
I think each individual has to decide for himself what out performs what. Many great bows out there . Shooting Widows for half of my 40 years shooting trad. They work for me in all aspects .
QuoteOriginally posted by gregg dudley:
I only pull that thing about 27 inches. Pulling 53 pounds at that draw. 60" PMA II.
Same here, a touch over 27". Never shot my PSA through a chrono, shooting a 550 grain arrow myself. Are you shooting a stock string?
No, the string is not stock, but it is not particularly skinny either. A buddy of mine made it for me and frankly I don't remember how many strands it has.
I'm probably gonna try a SBD eventually, but I don't want to mess with my tune this near season.
Thanks jkm97, just looked them up. SBD 10 strands for me.
I hear great things about them.
Black Widow makes one of the more outstanding bows. I have owned a bunch of them and as far as speed, they will hold their own with most. They are very stable and are one of the easiest to tune an arrow to. BW is unbeaten in their customer satisfaction and taking care of any problem that arises.
I will say the same for Mike and the fellows at Dryad. I have one of their Orion ACS recurves and it shoots as hard as any bow I have ever owned. His service is excellent also.
I have no experience with Samick bows. They may be great but I will stay with proven builders here at home. They have earned our business with good products that will last.
As far as ILF, I have no experience with them. The small amount of adjustability would help with arrow tuning but I still like limbs that bolt down solid. I was told by a well known bow builder that his ILF sales are minimal. This tells me they might not have quite as good resale value.
Borders are faster, no doubt do a search. The Hex 5s and the Hexs 6's are in the top couple in the world, Widows just read their own widow wall and you will see tons of threads on how to quiet them. I agree fast means nothing but guys brought it up. I try to tune my bows to shoot around 190fps. as that is what my minds eye likes. Not getting in a pissing match do the research and you will see. Yes made in Scotland, sorry but all this stuff about buying american is funny, most exotics used in bows does not even grow in this country, The hardware for most is also made out of country. I suppose you think Harley Davidsons and Fords are made in America too, HAHAHA!! They are assembled here buta lot of parts are from overseas. I myself like to spend my hard earned American dollars on quality and wherever that comes from I am glad to buy it. It still is a huge help to our economy and if everyone thought like some guys America would be broke, sorry but just getting the bow here from another country probably keeps several americans in a job. I am done, shoot what ya want but don't be stupid and buy just American or you will hurt a lot of Americans who work at the docks and the airports and tons of other places!! Keep shooting Widows they are a fine bow, but you would be limiting yourself!! OH and by the way I am shooting a Caribow from Abe, that will, well never mind its made in Canada!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: Shawn
I'm 100% satisfied with the bows I'm shooting-I could care less about "limiting myself".
Thanks for making me remember Shawn.I also own a Caribow Wolverine. It is a very hard shooter and a beautiful bow. Abe is a fine bowyer and he also takes care of his customers. I can vouch for that with experience. Canada is included in what I consider buying at "home".
I cannot offer any advise on ILF but I will throw out another vote of confidence in Black Widow performance and customer service.
I think everyone has seen Abe and Tina at our shows. Jack Kempt also, they are great people that should be patronized. No problems here with our neighbors to the north.
To each their own. I have owned a couple ILF systems. Mike and son at Dryad do a great job. If you like to tinker, play around with an adjustable bow, the ILF system may be your ticket. Give the Dryad guys a call - Mike will take care of you! I have owned maybe 40 different brands and styles of traditional bows. I still have 9 different brands of bows on the rack - including a Dryad Orian. But for me, I hunt with Widows - made here in Missouri by a great company. I am a hunter, not a 3D shooter or tinker. I want my limbs to bolt down solid, be bullet proof. My Widow PCHX with a SBD string (10 strand) and AD arrows just works for me. To each their own, but enjoy the journey.
Mike and Shawn, please accept my humble apology. While I do know quite a bit about Black Widows my knowledge of what else is out there is woefully poor. I've been with Widow since 1984 and while trying other high end bows, I always come back to to the Widow. I'm very passionate about the bows I shoot and USA made, that won't change. However the way I came across in this case does. I feel I was disrespectful of the guys that know alot more about other bows. In this case I should have clammed up and let the FACTS speak for themselves. Denny
Black Widows are legendary and fine shooting tough bows. No one's denying that. But comparing a premium ILF limb to a bolt down take down is like comparing apples to oranges. Besides if you want buy yourself a Black Widow AND a nice ILF riser and BF Extremes. Best of both worlds and there is no law against owning or hunting with more than one bow. I can attest to that.
I've never shot a BW but I had the change to shoot the BF extremes on the pinnacle riser in 45# and 50#. Both were very nice.
Honestly though, I probably wouldn't spend the money for either the BFs or the BW, but thats just one man's opinion ... and a stingy scrugelike man at that.
Frankly I'd rather draw an extra 2# of draw weight and put the extra money in the bank ... I'm drawing 25" so I'm not breaking any speed records no matter what I shoot.
I first heard of Black Widows when I started to read everything I could about a man named Myles Keller. That was some 20 plus years ago. I've never owned one...... yet. I think we all need to remember the term traditional archery. The reason I shoot a longbow is because I fell in love with the romance of the longbow legend.... from a time long passed. To me, the reason why I will (at least I hope so one day) own a black widow has nothing to do with performance.... rather it has everything to do with the tradition, the legend, and memories of times gone by. Same reason I love the feel of an old side by side I occassionally pull out for pheasants. Its old as dirt, has several "scars" from previous hunts, but there is some kind of strange mystical connection I have with that gun...... that is eactly how I feel about traditional bows. Heck I don't shoot an old hill bow all that well but it sure does make me feel good and somehow connected to the "lure" and "witchery" of archery. In the end, perhaps the reason why widow shooters continue to shoot them, and pretty dang successfully, is because the bows just make them feel good and enjoy the hunt that much more..... its all good.
Nice post Dave. After 18 years of shooting compounds I didn't come to trad for speed.