Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Lonnie bailey on August 17, 2013, 10:02:00 AM
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What is the lightest draw weight you would hunt with?
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A spear
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No less than 50# for me, but prefer 55-65#. I like slinging a heavy arrow.
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Depending what I was hunting, deer hunting I have hunted with as little as 42#s and a 320 grain arrow, killed 2 deer and a coyote and got holes out both sides. I now like 51-54#s for everything I hunt. Shawn
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I hunt Whitetails almost exclusively these days and I prefer a bow in the mid 50's which is down from the mid 60's I used to shoot. Being 72 years old does make a difference.
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Here in Connecticut,40# or I'd be breaking the law.I think being accurate with a SHARP broadhead is more important than draw weight.That said,I prefer bows around 65-70 at my draw because I like shooting heavy wood arrows with big snuffers on the end as fast as I can.The speed helps with the accuracy. I'm sure I could kill a deer with my daughter's 17#@18" longbow if I missed a rib and got a lung with a razor sharp broadhead. I know of a deer that was killed with a BB gun. The guy shoot at a deer in his garden to spook it. The bb slipped between the ribs and into a lung.He found the deer dead the next evening.
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For whitetails? I'd say about 30lbs with a 2 blade and 10-12 yard shots would be the minimum. I already get complete passthru's with 40lbs and the arrow continues on for 20 yards after the passthru, so I assume mid 30's would at least push the broadhead thru the opposite side of the skin on a deer.
In Michigan, there is no minimum weight rules and from my 15 plus years in the sport shop industry, I've heard stories of women and kids killing both deer and black bear with recurves and longbows as low as the high 20lbs range, with hair shaving sharp 2 blades at very short ranges.
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I have two boys who both killed deer with recurves UNDER forty pounds and short draw lengths.
Arrow weights at or slightly above ten grains per pound, sharp two edge broadheads, and close range shots....Just like Mojostick said.
Honestly we never saw COMPLETE pass thru arrows, but did manage two holes about half the time.
My wife is currently shooting a little, snappy longbow at about thirty five pounds at her 25" draw. Her 400 grain arrow is hitting with plenty of oomph to get both lungs.
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The lowest state minimum I know of is #30lbs. My wife will be hunting with #35lbs next year. Lots of animals are taken with 35-40lb bows.
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Good for you RMJ.
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40 is as low as I would personally go on deer. But I am a big fan of overkill. For elk, I wouldn't go lower than 45, and that would be with single bevel 2 blades, a high foc arrow, and short shots. Not to say 45 won't kill elk, I am just not a fan of light setups. Give me a heavy bow, heavy arrows, and big broadheads every time!
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In Alberta our rules say 40 pounds at 28 inches plus a minimum arrow length of 24 inches...I think that opens the door for hunting legally with bows close to thirty pounds draw weight...for that reason I will hunt with 63 pounds at 30 inches and 660 grain arrows just because I can
DDave
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Sorry folks! Just because you can doesn't mean you should!
Borderline draw weights are convoluted thinking IMHO & will only minimize your chances of ethically taking that animal from the woods. Some can (experienced hunters), most can't. State Game Agencies review these figures accordingly for the sole purpose of legislation.
I will not argue heavy vs whatever # as it has been done too often herein. Just accept responsibility for these beautiful animals & work towards doing your ethical best. That's all it takes.
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This kind of thread is really an ethics question...I believe every new bow hunter ought to have to read the story of Paul Schafer's long distance recovery of a wounded antelope...that is the epitome of ethical traditional bow hunting
DDave
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Trumpkin,
I realize single bevels are all the fad now, but having used low weight bows, used single and double bevel heads (both shaving sharp) and killed lots of deer, the double bevels out perform single bevels so much that I'll never use them again. For low weight bows, a Stinger or Silver Flame seems to perform the best. I assume Werewolf double bevels would be great too. I lost deer due to getting sucked into the single bevel fad and getting like 4" of penetration on broadside shots a Stinger would passthru, with 40lbs. Just my two cents.
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40# is as low as I'd go. Check your game regs. A lot of states have minimums.
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In Virginia there is no state minimum for poundage but the bow must be capable of projecting an arrow (no definition concerning length or weight) 100 yards. Kind of strange since I doubt any game officer is going to ask a hunter to shoot an arrow into the air and then measure the distance that it travels before it hits ground.
For deer, I would think if shooting distance is limited to within 18 yards and if the bow is capable of shooting any 350+ grain arrow to 150+ fps with a 1" very sharp two blade head.... that good penetration could be expected IF the shot only hits in the mid to lower rib cage. Lots of conditions in that statement but that is the type of consideration that you have to give this issue before proceeding into the field to hunt.
I do understand that deer have been killed with spears and 25 lb bows but it would be hard to climb into my stand with any confidence at all if I was hunting with either.
Doug
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I hope I will be able to hunt with the upper 47-51 pound (at my draw length of 26") for as long as I'm able to hunt.
However, if I am someday unable to hunt with those weights I'd feel comfortable, with proper game angle, perfectly tuned arrow, and razor-share broadhead, effective at 40 pounds.
I've killed many white-tail, mulies, antelope, and black bear over the years with Bear Razorheads. I started shooting single-bevel Helix broadheads in 2010. I'm not suggesting they are better than double bevel but I am very pleased with the Helix. I have a half-dozen unshot Silver Flames in my broadhead drawer. I'm sure they would work just fine but I have no reason to change.
Five for five on boiler room shots the past 3 years. Not a single deer has gone further than 35 yards after the hit.
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I think there is a better question to ask. I have killed a 150 lb whitetail buck with a 40 lb bow, but it was when I was very young.
I find myself at age 61 this year asking "with a reasonable amount of practice what can I realistically hunt with?" I don't think 60# and plus are in my future any more but I have worked up to a 58# at my draw with a 600+ grain arrow for elk. I don't like jumping from a heavier bow to a lighter one so I will be hunting with 53 to 58 lb bows.
Just my thoughts for what it is worth.
Gary
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I guess I really can not answer that question. All my bows right now are 50# or more and I do not want to go lower than that. If I had to though for some reason, I'm sure I would. I don't know what is "too light" but I'm sure I would keep hunting down in weight until I thought it was just too low. I love hunting with my stick and DREAD the day I can no longer do it!
Bisch
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Originally posted by Mojostick:
Trumpkin,
I realize single bevels are all the fad now, but having used low weight bows, used single and double bevel heads (both shaving sharp) and killed lots of deer, the double bevels out perform single bevels so much that I'll never use them again. For low weight bows, a Stinger or Silver Flame seems to perform the best. I assume Werewolf double bevels would be great too. I lost deer due to getting sucked into the single bevel fad and getting like 4" of penetration on broadside shots a Stinger would passthru, with 40lbs. Just my two cents.
Mojo, you are the only person I have ever heard to say that. The long, lean style that seems inextricably tied to a single bevel head, has always been renowned for penetration. I would be willing to bet that other circumstances played a role besides the single beveled broadhead.
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I would say that what Moj does with the double bevel works for him and what he does with the single bevel was either a singular event or something went wrong with the set up. I have seen incredible kills with single bevels and bows under 40 pounds, but then I have seen the same success with 2 blade Zwickey Eskimos. I think more deer have been lost because of bad hits with a bow that was too heavy for the shooter than bad performance due to too light of a bow. One of the common mistakes I see goes like this. The arrow flies loggy and the shooter is struggling. I point it out and the answer is, "I have to get it all the way back is all then the arrow will fly just right." The problem started at the archery shop where they checked the draw and the archer pulls 'em up tight and stretches for an extra long draw and the dealer makes up his arrows to match. Then when aiming, shooting downward out of tree stand, and a good case a buck fever kicks in, that draw shrinks the bow gets real stiff and draw gets real short. That all adds up to a weakly shot arrow that does not fly, is off target and does not penetrate. Byron F warns of the short draw when hunting by advising archers to get bows to anticipate this shorter hunting shot draw. I believe it important to anticipate the short draw when setting up ones hunting arrows as well.
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50# here its all I ever used even back when I hunted with a compound. In my own opinion it comes down to shot placement and your state game laws.
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All my bows are in the 45#-52# at my draw (29" longbow and 30" recurve)
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It was actually one of the best broadhead makers in the country that used the word "fad" in a phone conversation, concerning single bevels.
But to each his own.
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All my bows are between 46lb-53lb at my 26" draw.
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50 here, but my hunting bows are in the mid 50's.
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I believe if you poll shop owners, they sell more 40-50 lb bows than all of the other weights combined. I realize this doesn't answer the question asked but I do think it tells you something. Especially when the most popular species hunted are deer.
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The emphasis on only draw weight is somewhat misplaced. I have had bows of 45# that shot the same arrow faster than a similar bow of 50#. Bow design and performance have to be taken into account as I think we all know. There are big differences between bows.
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My go-to bow pulls 51 @ 28 and its tuned with it's wood arrows. It will get the job done if I pick my shots and choose my shooting angle... EASILY! Bows of my youth had training wheels and were in the 80+ range... The point is, whatever you choose, have it tuned and pick your shot distance and angle ethically. Through your practice sessions you will know what you can or can't do. God bless all!
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I agree with David, if draw poundage is in question, a lot can be gained by going to a faster bow. I have a Grooves recurve that is only in the mid 40s at my draw that will shoot the same arrow faster than most Hill style bows 10 pounds stiffer and it will shoot them well. So if some one is using a 47 pound longbow that shoots a 440 grain arrow at known speed, math has it that a fast 37 pound recurve that shoots the same arrow just as fast, the recurve has a chance of having more power, since the draw length may be longer with the recurve as well.
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The lightest I have used is 45#. My preference is 65#, but following an injury that has not completely healed, I am currently shooting a 55# bow (actually a bit less since I don't draw 28").
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50 - 53#
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All the bows in my signature drawn to 29".
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I agree with David,my 49# CariBow shoots harder than other bows I have owned that were 8 to 10 pounds heavier.I shoot 700 grain arrows and shoot out to 20 yards.
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One thing I didn't add in the single bevel/double bevel conversation is, from all my testing and live game experience with low poundage bows, I believe it is the razor sharp tip point of the double bevel that seems to make the big difference, when shooting low weight draws.
While single bevels may be great with bows 50lbs to the 60-80lb bows tested on African game or USA game with high weights, with 40lbs, the duller point of most single bevels cut about well as a blunt hammer head.
Now, perhaps a single bevel with a razor sharp tip may work as well, but keep in mind that the KE of low weight bows have little to give up, before performance really suffers.
I also found that a 3 blade, even a razor sharp point like a NAP Razor Cap, had poor penetration compared to double bevels. Granted, I killed deer with the Razor Cap, but the head just went into the center of the heart/chest (on small, young fawn deer with antlerless tags-and zero passthru shots), where Stingers, Phat Heads and Silver Flames have all skipped away with easy passthru shots.
Again, just my experience with 60 some bows in the low weight range and several 100 kills.
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Originally posted by Trumpkin the Dwarf:
Originally posted by Mojostick:
Trumpkin,
I realize single bevels are all the fad now, but having used low weight bows, used single and double bevel heads (both shaving sharp) and killed lots of deer, the double bevels out perform single bevels so much that I'll never use them again. For low weight bows, a Stinger or Silver Flame seems to perform the best. I assume Werewolf double bevels would be great too. I lost deer due to getting sucked into the single bevel fad and getting like 4" of penetration on broadside shots a Stinger would passthru, with 40lbs. Just my two cents.
Mojo, you are the only person I have ever heard to say that. The long, lean style that seems inextricably tied to a single bevel head, has always been renowned for penetration. I would be willing to bet that other circumstances played a role besides the single beveled broadhead. [/b]
Dr. Ashby found that if you use a single bevel with the opposite rotating feathers, then you get worse penetration than you would with a double bevel head.
He has tested a 40# recurve on water buffalo and achieved consistent lethal penetration.
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When all one gets is pass throughs on whitetails it is hard to know which one out penetrated the other. I switched to Hill left wings to match left wing feathers, but we never lost a deer that we hit with them crossed with the the fletch either. I am certain that one would see the difference on a tougher animal. We do get our tanto tips super sharp, but I think the big one is to get your arrows flying perfectly straight. If one is using a light bow, a sloppy flying arrow will show up real quick in loss of penetration.
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I've tested myself and I've had long conversations with one of the top broadhead makers in the USA. Again, the term "fad" came from the broadhead designer, not me.
Dr. Ashby has a line of fine, expensive high end heads being promoted and sold and I wish his brand and his business partners well. I only throw out my own experience, and frankly all the other experiences I've heard of for low weights, for the low poundage deer hunter to chew on.
When Magnus comes out with the single bevel Stinger, I will be happy to test it.
If one wants to try a certain head with a 35lb bow vs other tried and true heads, I wish them nothing but the best of luck. Just make sure the point is razor sharp.
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Pavan,
I have OCD. LOL My arrows fly straighter that 99.9% of other archers.
I never got a passthru on a whitetail with a single bevel and those I know who tried the same, single bevel with around 40lbs, had the same results.
I think the key is draw weights. If drawing 50 plus on deer, 2, 3 or 4 blade don't matter much. If drawing 70-100lbs, single may do great.
If drawing 35-40? There's no room for a blunt chisel tipped single blade to take away KE.
And if anyone shooting 35-40 has a great tanto tip single bevel story, I'd love to hear it.
I may be wrong, but some may be making their judgements by reading about rather than seeing with their own eyes. ;)
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Anyhow, this thread was about light weights. 45-50 isn't light weight.
I don't want to make this a single/double debate. Enjoy your hunt and take or leave the advice from those who have experience and be your own judge.
If one decides to hunt with low weights due to shoulder issues, I wish you the best.
If you decide to try a single bevel, I wish you the best of success!
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Whatever, it's not worth arguing about.
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Why would you ask that question? seriously? read your state regulations, thats the lightest you can hunt with.
IMHO: (which will get you blasted on here) is that a healthy adult should train and shoot with the most weight they can shoot. If appears, the current trend is to not train or work but, get buy with the least amount of weight and the least amount of effort.
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I think bow poundage is not the thing to be worrying about so much as arrow performance is.A bow drawing 40# at 25 inches is no where near the same as a bow that draws 40# at 30 inches. Can make some difference in the bow design as well.Whatever type or weight of bow you shoot you of coarse need arrows that are tuned and fly right and need to be heavy enough to penatrate well.If you have a bow that draws say 40# at your 26" draw and you are useing arrows that fly right and 9gpp, then they may likely not have very good trajectory so you need to be closer to your game.Thats all well and good but it doesnt give you much lee way if you miss judge the distance by a few yards. If you hunt from a stand and already know the distances to markers around your stand that helps a lot.But if your bow is drawing 40# at your 29"draw then the arrows may well be out performing some bows with 10# higher draw weights.Some bows its just obvious by shooting them that the arrow does not have much umpf behind them, especially when you shoot the beside other bows regardless of what draw weight is marked on the bow.
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We can argue about set ups,.single vs double bevel, arrow flight, etc all day. The op asked about hunting weights. 99% of trad hunters will agree that 50# and up is good hunting weight. Somego lower, some much higher, but 50# and up seems to be the point at which you won't get in an argument about how light your bow is and is therefore considered a good hunting weight.
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Through a degenerative condition in my shoulders I have been force to decrease weight and may have to stop completely. I have in the last three years killed one bear, two deer and a batch of plains game in Africa. The bear was a complete pass through using a 42/43# long bow with a 10/11 grain per pound arrow and a Helix broadhead. It was recovered within 30 feet of the shot. Both deer were shot with a bow I received in a bow swap I participated in that was 45 at my draw. One deer was a pass through and one hit shoulder bone on the opposite side of the deer and stopped. Both were shot with 10/11 gpp arrows and silverflames. Both deer were recovered in sight. In Africa I used a bow that was 45/47 at my draw 12 gpp arrow and Abowyer boneheads (single bevel) all animals had pass troughs or at least two holes and all were recovered in short distances.
Bear shot at 29 paces
Deer one shot at 11 paces
Deer two shot at 28 paces
all African game shot from 15 to 20 paces
All arrows were tuned perfect and my Broadheads are sharpened no polished scary sharp.
I will also add that African game is very tough, hide; muscle and bone.... millions of years of predation have made them so. I would not hesitate to take out and elk with any of the above set ups.....
I don’t want to jinx myself but the only animal I have lost was a warthog on Africa my shot was way low and just hit the brisket…. I had a professional tracker on him for miles and after reviewing a video we concluded he would recover. Shooter not the bows weight on that one. Weird thing was it was a 9/10 yard shot????
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=061040
IMHO
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I like to take a weight I am very comfortable shooting all day with then add about 3 pounds. I actually think I shoot better with a little extra weight as my bow arm is more stable with the extra weight.
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I say a minimum of 45 lbs...and that's for deer and anything smaller...But I would go a minimum of 50 myself. Just my belief in making the most humane kills possible.
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Use whatever you want.
Chuckc
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The Heaviest you can handle comfortably and accurately.
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Originally posted by Bisch:
I guess I really can not answer that question. All my bows right now are 50# or more and I do not want to go lower than that. If I had to though for some reason, I'm sure I would. I don't know what is "too light" but I'm sure I would keep hunting down in weight until I thought it was just too low. I love hunting with my stick and DREAD the day I can no longer do it!
Bisch
What He said.
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I'd do 40 minimum. My preference is 45-50+, low to mid 50's being my go-to range. Course regarding heavier, if you can pull it well, do it.
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I thought I was shooting critters with bows in the high 40s at 27" but measured my draw the other day and its only 26.So I bought know 35 lbs would work for me.RC
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Originally posted by duncan idaho:
Why would you ask that question? seriously? read your state regulations, thats the lightest you can hunt with.
IMHO: (which will get you blasted on here) is that a healthy adult should train and shoot with the most weight they can shoot. If appears, the current trend is to not train or work but, get buy with the least amount of weight and the least amount of effort.
I couldn't agree more. I shoot a 65#@27". I have a friend that has somewhere between 9 and 12 bows all in the 42-51 range. He would rather keep buying bows in an attempt to get the same performance as I do than to get a heavier bow and just work out a few times a week.
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I prefer bows from 55-65#s for hunting
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I shoot and hunt with bows from 45-68#. I prefer to hunt with 60#. But I do not feel handicapped at all when hunting with my 50# bows.
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There was an article years ago in Bow and Arrow, by their staff target archer. The name evades me at the moment, Ellot something?? He advocated the use of target bows for hunting, because of the refined tuning and performance coupled with target accuracy. I can tell you that this is a very stiff shooting system to try to adopt to my hunting situations, for some target styles work for hunting. Anyway at a shooting preserve, his wife using a 32 pound BW target bow shooting Bodkin heads on metal target arrows, shot three arrows into a nice (probably tame) buck. They were all sticking out the other side. My point is that I had the chance to compare a Hoyt target bow to my hunting bow. It was his heavier set of limbs 42 pounds at 28" shooting arrows that were about the same weight as my hunting arrows. His bow was 12 feet per second faster than mine. I also helped a guy drag out a small 8 pointer, back in 1968. He shot the deer with fairly dull MA3 heads shooting a fiberglass Pearson recurve that only pulled 35 pounds, I would not recommend emulating either the 32 pound target bow with the Bodkins or the 35 pound fiberglass bow with the MA3, but that carbon limbed 42 pound target bow really put out an arrow and such performance could get one some leeway if draw weight was in question. Knowing what the performance of specific bow at a lighter weight and possibly at a shorter draw as well, could help to make a better bow buying decision.
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Not being good enough to assure that my deer won't move making a good shot turn into a marginal before my arrow gets there I'm not comfortable with anything under 60#. I actually don't own a bow that light and being 60 yrs. old I still shoot my 70#+ bows for all my hunting. Heavy shaft, sharp heads and an exit hole regardless of what gets in the way makes me much more comfortable in the woods.