Trad Gang

This is an ethics question. If you go hunting with a partner, do you share?
It has been my practice to share common expenses, like fuel costs, and if not everyone is successful, to offer to share some meat. At least to make the offer to even things up.

I just had a hunt where I supplied the boat and fuel (about $200 of gas), helped butcher and carry out game for two days across a mountain (we were hunting mountain goats, spent three nights out in remote country), and was left with no offer of any meat or gas money. The game bag was taken from my pack when we got back to town, and put into his vehicle.
We went to a spot I knew about and have taken goats before. It was his first goat hunt, so I supplied a lot of info to set things up.
This was a new hunting partner, and we did not discuss details beforehand or since; just curious if this would be outside usual practice with your partners?
Do you specifically talk about it beforehand? I guess I have always just tried not to get too businesslike with friends, just trust everyone to be fair.. Maybe this stuff just happens to tell us who our friends really are?  Feel sort of petty to complain, but I wonder if others address this with a more head on approach.  

What do you do?

When I lived in Alaska and had roommates we shared all game and fish, gas and other costs. My friends and I share now too but just a package of sausage here and there.

Absolutely, And so do the people I go with... Weird scenario if someone does not.  Ive had people offer up entire animals!  I Partnered up with a guy who shot an elk on the first morning of our hunt, Needless to say the next 3 days were spent packing out, he gave me 1/2 of everything.. Pretty typical I think

Sheesh, he should have at least split the basic expenses.  I would have wanted to pay for more since it was your equipment and hunting spot.  Just my opinion though...

I always split the cost if it's more than a day trip.....gas, groceries, tolls ...whatever. The guys I go with are always ready to share expenses. Most times it's brought up when making plans.

That ain't right, and I don't think you should have to discuss it, sharing should be automatic, with you paying the smaller share  because  you  used  your boat.

Most definitely. We have an understanding with the guys I hunt with someone puts an animal down who ever helps pack it out gets a share.

    If we rent a horse (done that a couple times) everyone shares the cost.

I share and I swap-if I can't get out, but somebody uses my equipment (I have a few friends I do trust with my gear) we split what gets killed.  If I can't give money I'll make arrows, etc. to make sure they feel like everything was equal.

I took a guy to eastern Oregon on an elk hunt, Called in a bunch of bulls for him , He finally shot one and got it way too far back. We literally tracked it up and down a canyon all day long. Would bust him and he would go to the top. Then work back down. My son killed him after about 7 or eight hours of this with a very long shot as he was crossing a fence. We then packed the bull out for him.   No thanks, No meat , nothing. Loaded his bull and left. Next year he was in our spot. We promptly found another place to hunt and have never talked to him since.
Personally I share and I don't need those kind of people in my life.
I hate to be this way but I have become very choosy about who I hunt with.  

God bless, Steve

All the partners I hunt with share everything equal. Most times giving a little extra to the driver for wear and tear on the vehicle.
or if there is special equipment needed.

We are the same way, everyone kicks in for their share or at least what they can.If someone does not have much to throw in, then they say so and they make up for it the next trip.I dont like to keep good track of it, i like friends that i dont have to count the change. In fact, if one guy drives and puts gas in, the chances are more than good that the other guys end up handing him MORE than the gas cost. I hope your friend catches on or that you find friends that do you right. There is nothing like hunting buddies that are fun to be with,take care of each other and share what they can.I have noticed in the past that the guys that have the most money are the ones that tend to contribute the least.

My deer campmates and I already layed out the expectations.  Don't hold a grudge if you don't discuss it. We often take for granted that others will instinctively know the unwritten guidelines for gentleman hunters.

That ain't right, and I don't think you should have to discuss it, sharing should be automatic, with you paying the smaller share  because  you  used  your  boat !

Sharing expenses is always understood with the guys I hunt with.
If one person supplies the vehicle, or gear, I like to pay for the gas etc. It only seems fair.

The guy sounds like someone I took a trip with once in Colorado. Once...

I like hunting with the guys that don't have to be "reminded" to chip in.

All the guys I hunt and fish with and for that matter, enjoyed dinners and stuff with have always just "whacked up" the expenses for whatever we have shared together. Sometimes a little more from me, sometimes a little less from me, but it always evens out. If we are doing something where it is apparent that one of us will be purchasing or doing something that would be out of the norm, then that person just automatically takes care of that portion that is extraordinary. Bottom line, good hunting and fishing buddies are hard to find. Good old fashioned manners seem to be getting harder to come by these days.

Walter,

Living up here also I have had the full gamut of experiences.  From giving me entire animals to offering nothing in return for the local knowledge, equipment or fuel cost.  On new folks that I encounter, some even from this site, I don't hesitate in laying out a full list of expenditures and what is expected.  It seperates the wheat from the chaff.  I have had some jaw dropping encounters and can't even fathom bearing that kind of karma.  Some folks can live with that kind of greed.  Not me.  Whenever game is harvested in my party everyone involved is going home with meat.  

Bottom line.

~CB

Lucky to have my brothers and Dad as my hunting buddies.  Every trip whether its deer close to home, or after elk it's all for one, one for all.  We throw money into a kitty for food.  We take turns filling up the truck with gas.  All guys stop hunting to pack an animal out, and the animal gets split 4 ways.  We make mental notes each season of who's "due" for a shot at a nice buck and offer the best stand.  I feel very blessed for having those guys because I know that not everyone has that.

I've shared camp with guys before that didn't share the meat.  But I've never shared camp with folks that wouldn't split the expenses and chores around camp.

You should always discuss that type of stuff up front, especially with a new partner.

That would be the last time he hunted with me !

Boznarras:  Your friend isn't a friend or a decent hunting partner.  And, like Sixby experienced, I'd bet you'll find him hunting your area the next time you go there.  Selfish boors like that we don't need.  I'd certainly never hunt with him again.

I only hunt with three people. One has a family so I would never take meat from him if the opportunity. The second is my best friend who is single, and doesn't know how to cook so he usually gives me what he gets in return for the experience and nice grilled steak afterwards. The third is my Papa and that is all that gets eaten at our house so if either one gets a deer we both get to eat! Expenses get split for sure though without question and in a situation such as an elk hunt or something with someone new I would certainly be sure beforehand of their intentions and let them know mine as well. It is sad that someone could be so selfish though to ruin the comradery and not share in the spoils. It is better to give than to receive.

In our camp everything is split.  Before we even leave home or at least at the first gas stop everyone chips in a couple hundred to the camp bank bag.  Everything that gets spent on the trip comes out of that bag..........gas, road meals, grocery food, meat freezing, etc. - everything.  When an animal goes down, everyone chips in to get it back to camp and butchered and all meat is split equally when we get back.  When we get back the truck owners get an extra share for the use of the vehicle.  It really is the only way.

i have had hunting partners from both extremes, some wouldn't contribute anything to those who tried paying for everything.  I try not to keep a score card, prefering those that carry their own weight and expect me to carry mine.

 The exception is when taking young hunters and college students out.  I insist on footing the bill for them.  I didn't big game hunt while in college, but do remember how hard it was to come up with the gas money to get to my favorite pheasant spots and most productive fly fishing streams.  Numerous times somebody at the fly shop hauled me to either Hat or Cache  Creek in northern CA and insisted on paying (though they probably thought they were getting a cheap guide).  Just my way of paying them back.

I may or may not share the meat half and half, but I will offer SOME, however expenses are split and sometimes more than split if we use their equipment.

Real friends probably shouldn't need to discuss this, but new partners probably should so there are no surprises.

ChuckC

Chalk it up to experience, albeit not a nice one for you.  I personally would not have anything to do with this person again.  Basic, common decency would be to split everything.  It is obvious that this gent lacks that quality.  I would distance myself from him.

Always do my fair share and more.  Not only financially, but chores around camp too.  It's just the right thing to do.

We always share expense! It's kinda part of being an adult, least that's what dad taught me...

Thanks for bringing this up, Walter.  While we would hope that everyone would share without having to say so, experiences like yours show that isn't always the case.  I hope I remember your experience when I take any kind of a trip with someone I don't know very well in the future, unless I plan to pay all the expenses myself anyway, and don't care about other things like sharing the game.  A few words up front can be an awkward thing to have to do, but not as awkward as what you had to go through.

I always share expenses. If only one animal is taken we also offer to share the beast.

I only hunt with very close friends or relatives. I would never want them to carry more of any part of the load (financial or chores) than me.

I agree with Al. Learning experience!!  All things considered pretty cheap to find out the real person behind the face!!  Move on and find better buddies. Someone like that just doesn't get it and probably never will. Would be interesting to hear his argument if you did ask for gas $$, etc.  In my experience probably something along the lines of "well I figured you were going hunting anyway so why should I pay for gas you would have used anyway" ha ha.   Unless this guy is really young I wouldn't even bother with any explanation. You can find better... Maybe even right around here!!

Go to A trad shoot and see how many pans of left-overs come around in the evening from different camps, I'd say the community in general shares.

My hunting partners and I share everything. If we go on a long distance hunt for game not usually hunted by us (like elk or moose) we share the meat between everyone. If we are deer hunting there is no need to share the meat but it is always offered.

Gil

Fool me once shame on you,Fool me twice shame on me.

maybe he will showup with a box of properly butchered and frozen meat and an envelope with cash in it and a big smile and a firm handshake and say( thanks for taking me to your spot, would love to go again sometime)....hopefully huh!

If the guy is new to this he might not know he should help out. He may have literally thought you were taking him on a hunt. While my upbringing would prevent me from such a mishap you never know how others you meet will see it. If he is not new to this sport then I agree the guy is a shmuck and took advantage of you and would not be invited back. I think it should always be a part of the planning discussion to make sure everyone understands these details so no hard feelings later. People do strange things over money. Had friend try to stiff me over some tournament winnings because he caught the winning fish. But I put the net under it and we were in my boat, pulled by my truck and pre planning agreement was if we won anything it was to be split 50/50. I held him to it but it caused some hard feelings.

If it was a new hunting partner to me, I think I would have discussed how we were going to split things up.

If I was "the guy" I would probably would have been asking to pay for all your gas for all the help you provided to me in a successful hunt!

Bisch

I would not hunt with him again and wouldn't call him friend.


If he is young, I would talk with him and give a break.

Everyone I hunt with shares expenses and at least offers some meat.  especially if it was a hunt where you wouldn't expect more than 1 animal killed.

Wether the guy us new or not it's unacceptable, I have gone on vacations with friends that don't hunt and it's split into even shares, guy needs to man up and not be a free loader, it's down right rude and inconsiderate! I am so sorry that thus happened to you, FYI  I know a guy that would be more than willing to help out and foot the bill on an Alaska hunt  :D !

Absolutely, we share costs and meat taken.

There is a saying in Greece where I grew up.I will try to translate it.It goes something like "good explanations make good friends".
The dude you went hunting sounds like an as****

Thanks for all the input.
I agree that I should learn from this. Also I am gratified to know that what I was expecting is  usual and customary, that is, to share the costs and the harvest.
It occurs to me that with a new acquaintance, I feel most awkward discussing a potentially confrontational subject beforehand, fearing it would be misunderstood or would somehow taint the new relationship, but these new partnerships are exactly the ones that need it all spelled out in black and white. You really don't need to do this with your old friends.
I also wonder if age difference plays a part. I am 59 years old, about the same age as this guy's parents. Maybe I get dealt with a little different than his usual buddies.
I do have a long time partner that can still go deer hunting, but he had to give up this goat thing, his knees won't take it anymore. With deer, we usually each get one and pack his own, and just take turns on whose boat is used for separate trips for fishing and hunting, figure it works out close enough.

I won't have the time to do another goat hunt this year. God (and running program) willing, I do plan to go next year, maybe to this same spot, but will probably try to 1. go opening day and 2. take a different partner and spell it out somehow beforehand. I have gone goat hunting alone, but the steep cliffs etc are not good places to be without anyone to help in case of some mishap.
This year I saw three nannies with kids, one with twins, plus two possible billies that I could not get to. The critters are there. Next year may be my turn again.
I do like the scenario where he is going to show up with wrapped meat, and a cash donation, I have been thinking about that one. But I don't think I want to ask for it, just too much of a confrontation to come away with anything worth saving.

Share, understood. Split everything.

I have hunted with guys like that in the past but not anymore and those were quickly eliminated from my hunting buds. I only hunt local now and there are no expenses to share. I do have a 3 bedroom hunting lodge and invite guests and family from time to time. If they want to help with the food, great, but if not no biggie. We have always offered to share any game taken.

Always share everything, across the board. Unless otherwise agreed too before hand.

If I was richer and healthier, I would pay for everything to have a friend take me goat hunting in Alaska.  The experience and a couple of pounds of meat would be a good repayment.  My wife has informed me that I have given away my last bow, a really nice Hill Razorback.  Everyone I hunt with, as she reminded, are hunting with stuff I have given away or are using trailers, carts and stands that I have purchased. But then I reminded her of all that we have gotten in return. By sharing my stuff, they have all shared back. I almost hate to admit it, but I am way ahead on the deal and I am getting behind.  Funny how that sharing thing works.

I have been lucky I guess... It has always been a given that we share, the money topic never comes up.

If some one started taking advantage of a good thing, the good thing would end sooner than later.

I think Id already know a person well enough before planning a trip with someone. If they werent the "pull their own weight" type I wouldnt associate more than casually to begin with. If a man is down on his money thats a whole nuther story and Id be glad to treat at my expense.

   
The worst type are the ones always whining how they wish they could do this and that but are broke and the next time you see them theyre toting a new bow. Ive seen this type of thing 1st hand.

I can't agree enough with what everyone on this thread has to say. This is because you guys are REAL sportsmen. I have had this stuff happen to me more times than I care to remember. When I had a good rabbitt dog I can remember having to go way up north to hunt snowshoes, and at the end of the day I was offered some uncleaned game as to clear their consence. I think this topic should be added to the hunter safety program so the new hunters can turn out to be REAL sportsmen and women. This is absolutly the perfect topic to bring up at the beginning of the hunting year.

Evidently, common sense isn't so common anymore.

Back in the 1980's I hunted with some co-workers/friends. We left Indiana for a hunt in WY.

Everything worked great.  We each put a couple hundred in the kitty to buy gas and food. When the pot was empty we all put in an equal amount again. Remaining funds were equally divided.

We also shared work around camp.

Worked fine.

You take me on a hunt like that I'd be paying for everything and would be very thankful for it.  You basically served as a guide, least he could do really.

I have had a hunting friend hunt with me at my place for a couple years and not ever pay for a thing.
I would drive, pay gas, tolls, heat,  stop at shop rite and pick up what we needed.
Never did he pay.
I once even said from my frustration while at the cashier that he should be paying this one time. He didn't even put his hand in his pocket!

These types usually think their Gods gift and bounce from person to person.

Hunting and golf, 2 sports where people's true personalities show up real quick.
Been disappointed in people I thought were good folks more than once.

Im a little different.  I hunt with my dad.  He pays for everything.  I do not make the most money and he knows that.  I make sure I have the gear I need but he floats the gas bill, stands, lease, seed for food plots, ect.  I know he would never ask me to pay for anything.

BUT what I do to help repay him is do as much grunt work as I can.  He does not set stands.  He does not pull ground blinds let alone ones that have hornets nests in them.  He does not field dress animals.  He does not clean out the truck.  I repay him by working hard for him.  Repayment isn't always in the form of a green piece of paper.  I do what I can to earn my share.  I have hunted with guys who did not and it is frustrating.

We always split up the meat. If I go in someone else's truck and there's only two of us I pay for half the gas and throw in some more for truck wear and tear. If I take someone and they don't share or pay they never get invited to go again.

Two of you? It should have been 50/50

krink, your a good guy. Most of the time (at least with me) what you do is more apreciated than money. Also as for cahaba, it sounds like you consider oil change, brake and tire wear, and truck wash.

I don't discuss it with my hunting partner, we just split everything. Its not always a 50/50 split exactly but we don't expect just one of us to foot the bill for everything. And if just one of us gets something we split that too.

The group I hunt with (mostly family) always shares. On the caribou hunt I went on we split the food and gas money. As for the meat, we split that equally as well - which worked out for me, as everyone but me got 2 caribou and I got none! I called the meat I got my charity caribou, or 'charibou'.

With deer hunting we split costs when they come up. We split the meat as well, but it's understood that the person who shot the animal gets the best cuts of meat.

Hunting is a collective endeavour. People should contribute what they can and share appropriately.

Totally foreign to me that someone would think that they wouldn't pay their fair share.  I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character and think more than likely someone like that would have never ended up going on the trip to begin with.  Myself, I would be horrified if someone ever thought I wasn't doing my fair share, so I tend to go a little overboard making sure there's no doubt.

Not everyone is brought up "right." Things like this "shouldn't" hafta be talked about, but I've never had it hurt a friendship when one of us mentioned these kind of things, either before or after the fact. But most of the people I hang out with are not very sensitive. Lol. However, I would want someone to let me know if they thought I didn't contribute.
As far as past experiences, I have not yet been the "successful" one so I haven't had the opportunity to share, but my buddies have shared plenty with me. I usually like to help with the cleaning/skinning though. I even got half a deer from a friend once, that I went to help pack out a deer he shot & then he almost cut his thumb off while finishing up the job. Since I took him to the hospital, my share of the meat went up some. LOL.

same here in france , it's a hunting habit to share everything .. where a team of 8/10 hunter , one of us as 5 dogs , now and then whe buy it a 25kg bag of dogfood .. is dogs are hunting for all of us , whe share de veterinary fee when there is some , same thing for the bar , lol lol .. and for the game we hunt , we cut it by the middle , and 2 of us take a half  and so on ...
we even keep a few piece , that we give to the owner of the land where hunting on .. and one or two animals we give to the elderly house where the oldest of our village retire .thats make them a nice christmas /new year  diner
but i things our hunting habit are not the same as in your country ..

Update: It keeps getting better, or at least I found out I am not the only one getting the short end.
Before our hunt, we took a ride with a friend in his personal plane, just to scout the mountains we were considering lest we do the 7 or 8 hour climb up a mountain with no goats. He took us to three areas, all of which I have successfully hunted before, and we did spot a goat from the air on the mountain that we then climbed the next day.
Since he is not a commercial pilot, our flying friend just asked for a contribution to his fuel bill. I had cash in pocket and promptly gave him $150. My hunting partner had no money, but said he would go to the fuel distributor and put some money on the pilot's account.
I checked today and the fuel sales people never got anything. I called the pilot and gave a report on our hunt, thanked him again, offered more money, which he declined. I also asked if he liked goat meat, he said he had never tried it.
So today, I am buying my "partner" a cup of coffee and having a talk....

Yes, we always split up everything in a very informal way.  Then again, I only hunt with my father-in-law and one of my two best friends.  We don't really keep tabs and go out of the way to make sure it's even so much as we like to share the wealth with those who share in on the adventure.  We would never allow a single person to absorb the entire costs of everything and then go home meatless.  That is just not cool.

Sharing expenses should never even need to be discussed - its just something you do without being asked. Same goes for sharing the meat, especially when one person does so much extra work to help the other guy have a successful hunt. I am not surprised, though, to hear about the lack of consideration some have mentioned. Unfortunately, many people are just not raised  on manners and lessons in ethics. I would not continue to hunt with these guys either.

He quickly would become my "ex hunting partner". Life is too short to hunt with cheapskates.

We had a talk, and I am glad. I asked him what he thought I wanted to talk about, and he came right to it first try. Said he had been thinking about it and wanted to pay half the gas and give me half the meat.
We even got to talk about taking care of our pilot and not telling everybody where the spot is, etc. A good talk.
So not only is it good to discuss this stuff before the hunt, it is good to sort it out afterwards too.
Thanks for the support, it helped me feel justified in pushing the issue.   :)

i'd get a new friend.

Did he pay you guide fees? If not you got taken bad. My hunting partner and I split game 50-50, if we go on a trip where we travel more any amount of miles I pay my share of gas. I had the same thing happen to me when I lived back east. One of my hunting partners got a deer and I got 2 chops out of the deal. I hope you tell him to find another sucker to hunt with next year...PR

QuoteOriginally posted by boznarras:
We had a talk, and I am glad. I asked him what he thought I wanted to talk about, and he came right to it first try. Said he had been thinking about it and wanted to pay half the gas and give me half the meat.
We even got to talk about taking care of our pilot and not telling everybody where the spot is, etc. A good talk.
So not only is it good to discuss this stuff before the hunt, it is good to sort it out afterwards too.
Thanks for the support, it helped me feel justified in pushing the issue.    :)  

I'm glad he decided to do the right thing after you spoke with him. If it were me, I would avoid hunting with him in the future. It sounds like he has some integrity issues with a dose of selfishness sprinkled in!

glad you got it settled,  maybe he will turn out to be a good hunting buddie.    :thumbsup:
hes lucky to have someone with knowledge and resources to lead him on some great hunts.

We all like a happy ending.

Yes!  by all means share.. I think you need new friends!

Good happy ending. I had some great experiences growing up and was taught by my father the unwritten rules of hunting with partners. I later had a couple of not so good incidents with other partners that did not adhere to the rules. When I move to California, it took me 8 years to find new hunting partners. I basically had to start them from scratch in both hunting and archery. Just to make sure, I also instructed them on these unwritten rules, which they would not have know had I not informed them. Now all we need to do is have one of us get something to share.

Lets see you took me to your hunting spot, in your boat, shared info about the area, helped me carry out the game. You would not have paid a dollar for gas let alone half and took home half the meat.

I always give the benefit of the doubt to someone, i don't know your friend or how long you have known him or how long he has been hunting, maybe he has not yet been exposed to the way most hunters react in this situation.

Just read that all came out good.

Heck yea we share! Always have always will and if one of our hunting partners can't afford to go we make sure they can because the adventure wouldn't be the same without them!

But then again I have hunted with the same people for the past 30 some years. Glad to hear it had a good ending.

Here's a question that just popped up. If your hunting partner runs over a rock and cracks an oil pan, are you obligated to help pay for the repairs?

QuoteOriginally posted by kill shot:
krink, your a good guy. Most of the time (at least with me) what you do is more apreciated than money. Also as for cahaba, it sounds like you consider oil change, brake and tire wear, and truck wash.

I do consider oil,brake and tire wear and truck wash if it is a real long trip. Most of the time 50/50 is sufficient for short trips.

]I would only help pay for an oil pan if I encouraged him to go somewhere he didn't want to take his truck.

I would only help pay for an oil pan if I encouraged him to go somewhere he didn't want to take his truck. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Sorry double post.I must have got a case of the rickets.
HaHa