Maybe im just old school but my method of finding out what a bow likes is through trial and error.
I cant rattle off grains per inch, front of center weights, nock weights, how much weight the finish adds to a shaft ( I shoot woods only ) ETC. but even though I dont have the technical info. in hand I always end up with great shaft and broadhead combos that are consistent, accurate and will punch a hole through any big game I would ever hope to hunt.
At our traditional effective hunting ranges, which I would guess to be 20 yrs and under for most, Ive never felt the need to enter the technical arena, so long as my arrows are spined true, fly with deadly accuracy and my heads are shaving sharp,,,,, at 20 yrs and in, does 20, 25 or even 30 grains make that much of a difference as long as your spine delivers true flight?
Is my lack of technical thinking wrong ? or do we sometimes over think our set ups, considering what most of our effective ranges are ?
No malice meant, just a topic for discussion. :campfire: :coffee:
What are you considering technical arena?
Very, very wrong. I can't believe your bows don't sprout legs and walk away.
Seriously though....
You raise a good point--we might make a simple sport too complicated. Then again, I enjoy it all.
Nope. Yours is known as the Emperical Method. Only downside is the results may not be repeatable and may be less efficient.
But if it works - obviously - it is working. ;-)
I'm relatively new to this, but I dabble a little in all of it. I notice the more I shoot the more I learn. I can tell now if my arrows are flying funny and know how to fix it. As for grains I don't think that little matters. So, no I don't think your wrong a bit. All the technical stuff is still fun, but for some people unnecessary
Being convinced of one's own knowledge may create an impenetrable barrier unless one is aware that his knowledge fails to fill a thimble.
The most rigid foundation of greater confidence is best poured from one's own hand.
Lots of us are in it for the simplicity. Going totally technical, yeah, it can make things really better, but I wonder how needed it really is. If the arrow flies well with some 5.5" fletch, did I really need to bare shaft it and cut it by 1/4" increments all summer to know it is at it's very best ? If it flies well do I really need to adjust the rest and the center cut etc ? If it works, it just works.
ChuckC
I always thought the bottom line was for it work for you. Don't really matter how you get there.
No, it is not. Trial and error may take a while to find the right combination, but tinkering around with tuning is sometimes fun. You may not understand the principles of physics involved, but when you find a good working set up, you have applied them just the same as most enthusiastic techie out there.
Nobody on Trad Gang is more old school than me, but what the hell, I can still miss 'em as good as anybody!
Yes it is, then again no its not.
Is it wrong to pull a 2000 lb camper behind a car rated for 1500 lbs? you might get the job done but put yourself in a dangerous situation.
There will always be a little technicality involved. whether it be understanding arrow spine or adjusting brace height to stop hitting your arm. When you find out what works for you, who cares what others think?
The goal of all the technical stuff is to get your arrows flying well. If you're already there, you're done. Of course if you want to argue about tuning, then you are definitely doing it all wrong.
Why does one method have to be labeled? And the other NOT?
I admire that simple approach. What I do NOT admire are folks who shoot a few arrows, regardless of type of bow, and see the arrow hit where they want, and call it "game killing good".
Forget the fliers. Forget the shaft flies sideways part of the way..."It hit where I'm looking" they say!
There seems to be a near phobic reaction to anything that is more systematic in the tuning of arrows and milking the most from one's equipment...as though that puts you back in the realm of "compounders".
Growing up, when there were only stick bows and wood or alum arrows, some older guys shot a few arrows till they found something that flew "ok"...others tinkered and tweaked even then.
Different strokes for different folks. The proof is in the pudding and whether you eat it with a teaspoon, tablespoon or a fork, is up to you!
Just be who you are.
I am a tinkerer, but is just who I am.
Look at it this way Moleman..
Trad folks are s'darn good lookin' the brain doesn't really figure in... :saywhat:
it's the pretty, fashionable,speediest,heaviest,newest and most expensive that sell. While the cheap and/or free (labor excluded) will do the same thing!!
Whichever works for you and your idea of "BEST"!!
Do that which you understand, enjoy it and; success is yours!!
See ya in October, Moleman..
Whatever floats your boat man!
It's simply all about you. Asking a question like this, that only you can answer from within, is really kinda :dunno:
My take on this is: "It ain't brain surgery or rocket science" but you must think it through and know what good arrow flight looks like.
The point of impact and penetration will help verify what you "think" your eyes saw.
God bless,Mudd
PS: I am considering...just considering mind you..of giving a dozen carbons a try.
Mudd. . just keep in mind. . thousands of years ago, those carbons were trees and leaves.
ChuckC :dunno:
I'm a tech fellow, it's what I do and enjoy. I love the never ending puzzle of traditional archery.
In my opinion the bottom line of any hunting setup is to have the upmost confidence in your hunting bow/ arrow combination. Sounds like your arrows are flying the same with broadheads and field points and that's pretty much what it takes to get the job done. When your arrows fly the same every time, you're probably more technical than you give yourself credit for.
After doing this for so long you kind of know what's going to work and what's not with a given set up. Fly'n by the seat of your pants can be a great way to go!!
The English archers had it all figured out a thousand years ago. Today we make up new terminology for what they did, become anally retentive and then we get lost as a goose in a hail storm. :knothead:
Where is Howard when we need him?
Who's to argue with success, if what you are doing works for you that's all that counts. Personally I find bare shaft tuning to be a very simple process. It allows my to skip all the guess work and quickly and efficiently get the best possible arrow flight.
Most of us are looking for enjoyment out of our archery over anything else, if you don't like it...whatever "it" is, don't do it.
:campfire:
Doc Nock pretty much said what I think about it.
sorry double post
If you are happy and confident with your setup who cares what others may or may not think of it. ;)
well I just try bareshaft, if it is flying great without feather, then it should be even better feathered. Wonder if it is the same for birds :knothead:
Nice thing about trad is the choice is yours. 'Science or not' take your pick. :archer:
Some people shoot and hunt traditional and simple because they want to get away from technology for awhile. I doesn't mean they aren't smart enough to grasp it. They just want to go back to things that are simple, and maybe a break from a stressful job, or stressful surroundings.
If it aint broke don't fix it. If your setup is working and you're getting good results, I'd say you have it figured out. Don't try to over complicate it, that's for the guys with wheels. ;) Relax and enjoy the flight of the arrow.
2 fletch, I think that in my case you may have hit the nail on the head. My daily routine at work requires constant math, formulas and equations, of which I dont care to carry home with me. Looking at it from your point of view, doing it simple and still getting it right, could be my way of getting away from technology and enjoying this great sport. :thumbsup:
Its all good no matter how you get there, as long your shafts fly true and hit the mark. :archer2:
There is more than one route to most destinations. Some get there by GPS, some maps, some dead reckoning, and some just wonder around until they find it. Doesn't matter much how you get there if don't care.
Most of the technology in arrow tuning and building is just figuring out what you want in the finished product. A lot of that mostly relates to carbon arrows where you have few spine choices and a real light shaft so need to figure out how to get the weight where you want it. Even then you really have to shoot the things to see what they do for you.
I see little value in most of the arrow tuning technology when shooting wood unless you are searching for a real heavy arrow for some big game animal. Back in the day with wood I just went to the store and got some spined for my bow and the head I wanted to shoot. Maybe messed with the side plate and brace a little. Maybe trimmed a little and went hunting. Aluminum was about the same.
:knothead: :knothead: :knothead:
One of the things I like about archery is I can be as technical as I want to be on any given day.
I do believe the more I know your equipment and the impacts of various set-up choices, the prettier the arrow flight and more fun I have. I need to know when I miss it is ME and not my set-up.
I love a tiny little hole in paper at 6 feet and an arrow flying all the way to 40 yards with barely a wiggle.