USE HEAVY BOWS
by
Tom Imler, Jr.
I have felt for some time the urge to answer some of the opinions expressed on the relative merits of light and heavy bows. Because of the weight of my bows I have become quite innocently, and believe me, quite unintentionally embroiled in this deadly feud, so duck your heads, you "light bow" boys, here it comes.
First let me be understood. There seems to be no question that a 50 pound bow will kill deer and even larger game quite successfully. However, we also know that a 22 rifle will kill big game hut is barred by law in most states because it is not considered adequate- not enough margin of safety. Why then should we be satisfied with minimum killing power when we can quite easily have better?
For some time now I have heard said and seen published the statement that a 50 pound bow will do anything a 75 pound bow will do and that it is probably even better for all round big game hunting. It is usually said that the advantage of the speed with lighter bows and arrows more than off-sets the advantages of the heavier tackle. Don't let 'em kid you, fellows. If this is true then there are a lot of physics professors over the world that have been laboring under delusions for many years.
Most of the fellows who make such statements base their whole argument on an erroneous assumption. They generally assume all men are such weak creatures that when they shoot a 75 pound bow they shake violently with exertion and only succeed in drawing 21 or 22 inches of a 28 inch arrow. I assure you this is is not the case. It has been my observation that almost any man can build up to a much heavier bow than 50 pounds. When the time comes to shoot big game the archer has no trouble drawing any bow with which he can normally shoot a full clout. He is more apt to overdraw on normal length arrows than to under- draw 3 or 4 inches, as is claimed.
Now, think for yourselves. If a 50 pound bow will throw a 500 grain arrow at a given velocity and through a given trajectory curve, then a 75 pound bow- will throw a heavior ar row through an equally flat trajectory curve (conceding, of course, proper design of equipment) - Then it logically follows that a heavier arrow traveling at the same velocity expends, on striking,, a greater amount of energy Then too, a heavy object moving at a given speed is much harder to stop than a lighter one because of its inertia. In the case of an arrow this energy is expended almost entirely in penetration. Therefore add energy and you add penetration.
Aside from the ballistics on paper, I have actually seen many big game animals killed with both light and heavy bows. What I have seen more than bears out anything that the ballistics show. There is always a fuss raised about penetration and narrow heads are advocated by some (usually those with 50 pound bows) to get penetration. I say use a heavier bow and you don't have to cut down on the width of the broadhead to get penetration. We all knew that a 50 pound bow will many times completely penetrate the chest cavity of a deer with the common broadhead. Any penetration beyond this point is useless. Death, is caused by hemorrage and the extent this hemorrhage is determined by the width of thc hole cut by the broadhead. The obvious thing then is to use wider broadheads (within practical bounds) until all the energy is expended in the job it is sent to do.
The additional penetration obtained by use of heavier equipment makes possible those shots in which the arrow goes "clean through" a big boar or a bear and keeps on going instead of just sticking in his ribs. To those of us who have been fighting for ten years to get archery hunting legalized in our respective states these demonstrations of penetration have been of tremendous varlue. I have actual slow motion natural color movies of such shots to back up my stories. The greatest archery hunter of modern times, Art Young, used very heavy bows and arrows and wide heavy hroadheads when he went after big game.
We surely haven't forgotten the lesson learned by the English en the invention of the long bow. Those who claim that weight of arrow should be sacrificed for the high trajectory should remember that the high trajectory bow was replaced by the English long bow that threw a heavy arrow. Penetration of armor was thus attained when the high trajectory bows and light arrows had proven useless. The men who came to these conclusions were not playing at archery-their lives depended upon the effectiveness of their bows. Penetration of animal flesh is similiar, in as much as it depends upon striking power.
This leads up to weight of arrow and bow. I'm afraid I'm going to shock terribly some of the "light bow tribe" by saying that in one most important point I heartily agree with their advice to the novice. The beginner in field archery should never start with a bow over 50 pounds no matter how strong he is. Many men should start with much lighter. Bad habits of form and loose are easily formed by a bow that is the least bit too strong.
But here my agreeable nature ends. Any normal man (physical handicaps, of course, are excepted) can, by starting with a weak bow and systematically building up to a stronger one, draw and shoot sucessfully a much stronger bow than he ever believed possible. Most normal men can use a 70 to 80 pound bow with ease. Why! even Joe Cosner1 with his old broken down muscles, was able to build up to a 70 pound bow and he even hits things once in a while, even if they are only gopher holes. If Joe can do it, anyone can. I'm not asking anyone to "over bow" himself. I made my 100 pound bow only for bear and for heavy penetration stunts. I'm no superman and I prefer my little 80 pound Osage bow for roving, but I use the heavier one with ease. I merely say don't be satisfied with that 50 pound how just because you won't build up those biceps and triceps. The factor of physical exercise is important in field archery, so why not get the most out of it.
Far be it from me to force my ideas down anyone's throat, so if any of you have read this far and don't agree, just stop here. There are many of archery's "old Foggies" who will "pooh pooh" this writing. There are other "old Foggies," myself included, who will say, "Boy that's telling 'em."
I address it not to any of them, but to the new fellow, who should, by all means, hear the "Heavy Bow" side of the story, which I have tried to present as logically as I am able. It's all in fun. As long as we can have differance of opinion and friendly arguments, archery will never get in a rut.
I have no doubt that a heavier bow will impart more energy into a target than a lighter one will. I just don't understand why that extra energy is needed. My 52# recurve with a 560 gr arrow will go clean through anything I want to shoot. Your deer won't be any "more deader" :) than mine will, so I will have fun with my longer practice sessions. If you like heavy bows, then I respect that.
this article is from the forties,...most dangerous game hunters lean heavy,i never dropped a grizzly with a bow,but i recon i wouldn't attempt it without a heavy hit and a ripping broadhead,most guy's today have a professional rifle hunter back them up, i find it interesting that it might not be needed with a heavy bow...interesting , that's all.
Comparing the .22 rifle to a 50# bow for big game hunting is a joke. No comparison what so ever. Now if you want to compare the 30-30 to a 50# bow that is a little more realistic if you want to then apply that to using more power for larger, tougher, and more dangerous game.
well,considering a 22 ca in a chest shot,and a 50# in a chest shot,it is,an 80#or 100# bows with an 800 or 1000 grain arrow will blast through the breast plate,all african big game hunters know that.but for deer ,elk or turkey,i'd agree with you..either way..i find the article interesing, ...how many states alowed bowhunting in the 1940's when the article was written,and how convincing the argument to fish and game that a bow could complete the task,the heavy bow must have been used to aid the speculative idea of dropping dangerous game with one,hence the approval of archery method.
Nobody screams foul louder than the light bow advocates!! EVER!!
amen
ChuckC
It's what you can shoot accurately on the first shot after sitting in a tree stand in cold weather for a few hours. I can shoot heavy bows when I'm warmed up and standing on the ground but for hunting deer from a tree stand I go lighter. But that's just my preference.
Nobody screams foul louder than the light bow advocates!! EVER!!
I completely disagree with that statement.Id say its pretty equal.
Are to, are to, are to! ;)
That essay was published in the December 1942 issue of "Ye Sylvan Archer"
I am amused that "this deadly feud" has been going on for so long. That's neat to me. I am also, quite often, impressed how folks from back then were able to express themselves. I think, as a whole, we have lost that ability in our culture. I was glad to read this essay, and not just because my favorite bow is a 75# Fedora longbow.
I especially like how he signed off "It's all in fun..."
Tom
I like bows in the hi 60lb to low 70 Lb range
I'm in my early 60s age wise and have no problem drawing them
fact is we are a bunch of soft out of shape wimps as a country today...hard work is now done with machines
I don't have a problem with guys using a 45-50 lb bow on whitetails and due to recent diagnosis I may be doing that myself...but no one will ever convince me they are as effective as a 70lb bow
that's i phrogdrvr ,the article is in and of itself a historic read,quite enjoyable.
Being a new shooter I am struggling to move up to a 50 lb bow from 45 lbs. But if I could draw and shoot accurately a 150 lb bow I would use it.
Just a question. Wouldn't time and advancements in material/ technology and knowledge on how to build a bow have to be part of any conversation regarding a bow built 70 years ago vs. any bow built today? Not that a 50# modern bow would stand up to a comparably built 70-80# modern bow but if talking about opinions held 70 years ago??? Wouldn't today's modern trad bow be a completely different animal as far as cast, speed and other parameters involved with getting an arrow from point A to point B? And, wouldn't this have to be a part of the conversation on which would be proper to hunt with? I am certainly NO expert but I know there are folks on here that are and it is certainly an interesting discussion. I enjoy reading what you guys have to say on these topics. Good stuff for us that are not as far down the Trad road!
QuoteOriginally posted by normf:
It's what you can shoot accurately on the first shot after sitting in a tree stand in cold weather for a few hours. I can shoot heavy bows when I'm warmed up and standing on the ground but for hunting deer from a tree stand I go lighter. But that's just my preference.
A very good point and one that is often overlooked in this type of debate. A few hours in a treestand in sub-freezing weather combined with the heavy clothing required in those conditions makes what is easy when warmed up...not so easy.
Since it's usually only the first shot that counts I want a bow I can shoot accurately when I'm freezing cold and dressed like the Michelin man. Unfortunately that's significantly less than what I could comfortably shoot when on the move and generating heat or on a nice summer evening. I'm only deer hunting and around 50# is plenty for me. Easy to shoot all day at targets, light enough I can handle it in less than ideal conditions.
I can't argue with the guys who have proven that lighter bows can do the job. But I got a bad hit on a 10-yard shot on a whitetail doe with my 48-pounder and lost that deer. The doe saw me and spun just as I released. I think that, based on where I hit her, had I been shooting a heavier bow, I would have harvested that deer instead of losing it -- probably eaten by coyotes within a few days.
Skitch,
Check out what Harry Drake did with his bows in the '40s through '70s. Modern bowyers are hard-pressed to match him... and that's no insult to them.
Tom
Thanks phrog I'll look it up!!
I have killed deer with bows from the high 40's# to low 70's#. None of them lived long enough for me to ask them which was better. :p
Rob
casting a 1000grain arrow at equal velocity would be the only comparable proof.i don't know if that's possible with a lighter bow today.still,i love to read about the old guys and how some of them did it.
This unfortunately leaves the women out of the woods!
So how important is it to stick the arrow 4 more inches into the dirt after a pass through? :dunno:
This is a never-ending argument!
Just shoot as heavy of a bow as you can shoot accurately and go hunt!
Bisch
Right on the money Bisch!!
I totally agree with the article, yet I don't disagree with the light bow advocates, either when they contend that a light bow can also be very effective. If you want to shoot a heavy bow and are willing to do the work, go for it. If you "work out" to "work up", it is not all that hard to shoot heavy poundage, just be cautious to avoid injury. I prefer heavier bows, but now I am shooting light, because of an unhealed injury - I grabbed the heavy bow and started shooting it before getting in decent shape.
An interesting observation I have made is that there is little difference in the velocities of my light vs heavy bows. However, the heavy bow does it with a heavier arrow. Power is a function of both mass and velocity, so if velocity is constant but arrow mass is increased, the heavier arrow will deliver more power to the target animal, assuming good tuning, sharp broad head, etc. Whenever possible, I will take the edge offered by the heavy bow. There is no such thing as overkill in the hunting field.
arrow placement
yes yes! however,a 1000 grain arrow at 180 fps is going to crash through a breastbone,that's why these bows are common on the african continent'd dangerous game hunts.also common for grizzlie bear hunts in the north west.
Its nice to read the heavy side argument and find it interesting that people sometimes act like a 40# bow is as good a killing machine as a 70#.
BUT, I think a lot of people are concerned about longevity in a sport where shooting a 100 arrows a week (5,000 a year) is possible or likely. I'm under 40, but starting to feel a few joys of aging. I'm around 50#, have no problems with more, and may settle around 55#. But after shooting a lot, I sometimes get dull aches in the shoulder and had an injury which sidelined me a month. So that leads me to thinking of 20 years down the road. Sure I could work up to more, but what about wear and tear? Shooting a longbow well takes a lot of practice. Like Easykeeper said, I suppose as long as I'm mostly hunting deer it doesn't matter very much.
QuoteOriginally posted by LimBender:
Its nice to read the heavy side argument and find it interesting that people sometimes act like a 40# bow is as good a killing machine as a 70#.
BUT, I think a lot of people are concerned about longevity in a sport where shooting a 100 arrows a week (5,000 a year) is possible or likely. I'm under 40, but starting to feel a few joys of aging. I'm around 50#, have no problems with more, and may settle around 55#. But after shooting a lot, I sometimes get dull aches in the shoulder and had an injury which sidelined me a month. So that leads me to thinking of 20 years down the road. Sure I could work up to more, but what about wear and tear? Shooting a longbow well takes a lot of practice. Like Easykeeper said, I suppose as long as I'm mostly hunting deer it doesn't matter very much.
100 arrows a week! Most days I shoot more than 100 arrows in the day. I am ate up with this way of life and LOVE to shoot my bow. I am a 50# guy. I tried to go up the 55# before I went to Africa in 2009. I gave it 9 months and just could not shoot the 55# nearly as well as the 50# so I stuck with the 50#. I am confident that I can cleanly kill anything I hunt. There are several species I will not hunt because I know I do not have enough bow.
Bisch
limbender says it all to me ican shoot heavier but if i stick with it. will i still be doing it down the road i love my 60 plus bows.but in the long run im better with my 50#.dead is dead
normf, stop settin around and go hunting.
Thinking about this thread and having a stack of TBM's sitting here I thought I would see what successful hunters are using. I looked at equipment notes and the traditional harvest page. These are hunts all around the world harvesting evey animal from turkeys to water buff.
Out of 10 magazines I came up with 84 kills with bows from 40# - #85
The average of those 84 successes was a 49.27# draw weight.
Food for thought.
Rob :)
I agree with arrow placement.
I think if you hit an animal in the "perfect spot" then a there is no problem with a 50# bow but lets be honest how many of us have always made the "perfect" shot every single time on an animal. I know I haven't. I think there is an advantage in shooting heavy bows on "bad" shots. A heavier bow will blow through an shoulder blade, spine, or a straight on bone hit where a lighter bow might not. I know there are a thousand different factors that can come into play too. I really think a hunter, for respect of the animal, should shoot the heaviest bow they can shoot accurately to make the cleanest kill they can. I hunt with a 57# bow, but I shoot a pretty heavy arrow. Is that considered a heavy bow or a light bow?? I can draw and 80# plus bow but could I shoot it accurate consistently...no I don't think so. Yeah I believe I could build up to it but I really don't feel like having my shoulder rebuilt years down the road either..lol What weight does a bow go from light to heavy? Is there an actual line that divides the two? That's an real question because I have no idea..lol
I'm comfortable and confident enough with my 49# bow and what it "can" do so much that I'm not worried about what it "can't" do.
How can one say deer hunting with a 50# bow is similar in comparison to hunting deer with a .22 cal. rifle?!? And, does that mean he is saying that a 75# bow would be similar in comparison to hunting deer with, say, a 300 Win. Mag?? The difference between a 50# bow and a 75# bow isn't the same as the difference between a .22 cal. squirrel rifle and a big bore centerfire deer rifle. It would be more like the difference between hunting deer with a .243 Winchester as compared to hunting deer with a .270 Winchester in my opinion. That was a ludicrous statement by the writer.
i think the writer was refering to shooting through the chestplate bones.a sure thing with a heavy bow.that's all.you wouldn't ever take that shot with a 60 or 70,but with a 90 or 80,it would rock..it ain't nothin but a choice,like what you do for a livin or what you believe in,different strokes for different folks!
Considering how many guys on here are having shoulder problems, I would proceed with caution. We do not live the same lives as those bowman from the past, we do not eat as healthy often times, and we tend not have the long term physical health. As far as a heavy bow saving the day with a bad hit, it may be possible with certain hits, but accuracy will always be deadlier. when bows get heavier they reach a point where the efficiency starts to drop off. A 50 pound bow shooting a 500 grain arrow will have more than half of the power of a 100 pound bow shooting a 1000 grain arrow. I shot 85 to 95 pound bows for many years with good success, I did hurt myself a couple of times exercising with weights so that could handle those bows. I still can pull them, but my fingers started giving me major problems so I had to back up. Now the heaviest right hand bow i ever shoot is a 64 pound Schulz and I have to limit myself with that. For some heavy is fun, but a straight flying arrow from a lighter bow placed in the just right spot will always be deadly. Also, if a very fast 55 pound bow shoots a 550 grain arrow faster than a slower 75 pound bow, which one has more power?
The question may be more one of heavy arrow vs. light arrow. I killed a 1200# bull moose with a 54# LB pushing a 750gr. arrow and got complete penetration. Seems to me that a heavy arrow is the equalizer.
Todd
Since when have we as traditional archers, or otherwise, advocated tailoring our tackle to insure penetration through breastbone? Just asking'....
While I agree with you on the inertia and physics angle, FMA - Force=Mass x Acceleration, I disagree on the "most men can draw a 70-80# bow". Drawing a bow uses a pretty specific set of muscles in a particular range of motion not usually found in daily life. Old bones of English longbow archers have been found and they all had abnormal features in the shoulders from shooting heavy war bows, that tells you that it is not 'normal'
I agree with the 50-55# on a cold fall morning after sitting motionless in a tree stand for several hours, however, I also shoot a 70# bow I built just for carp shooting to cast the 1000# grain fiberglass shafts and string attached.
With the excitement and adrenaline rush I get when the fishies are splashing I dont even notice the weight, but shoot that same bow at the range, I can barely get through a dozen arrows before accuracy goes out the window.
Native Americans killed 2000# buffalo with selfbows and stone tips and we have fiberglass and high carbon steel and we still debate a few pounds.
QuoteOriginally posted by Birdbow:
The question may be more one of heavy arrow vs. light arrow. I killed a 1200# bull moose with a 54# LB pushing a 750gr. arrow and got complete penetration. Seems to me that a heavy arrow is the equalizer.
Todd
Momentum is king.
homebru
QuoteOriginally posted by carpin'mark:
Native Americans killed 2000# buffalo with selfbows and stone tips and we have fiberglass and high carbon steel and we still debate a few pounds.
I'm not so sure that Native Americans hunted alone and put single arrows into those bison.
homebru
I have to agree with the past statement about people being lazy and soft. My most athletic buddies from our school days can hardly get out of their own way any more. They don't have half the strength I do even though they're anywhere from 50-70 pounds heavier. If my little 130lb butt can consistently shoot a 66# recurve, I know the big boys can......they just don't try or push themselves.
I think the most important thing to take away from these debates is that everyone should shoot the heaviest weight bow THEY can still shoot accurately. There is no magic number separating heavy from light as it is all based on anatomy. For me it has never been an "I'm more ethical" decision, dead is dead. I shoot heavy because I can and it is fun for me, but I'm also built like a T-Rex so my draw is only 26ish. Again that is my anatomy, I have hunted with a 115# bow and for me that was about as heavy as I could go without sacrificing accuracy and form. With that being said, I would gladly give up 30-40 lbs of draw weight if I could add about three inches to my draw but that is never going to happen.
One other small point. Sometimes those old articles have a predictable amount of BS in them. He wrote the article about shooting heavy bows, do we really know how well he handled them? We have seen it on here as well with one former tradgang poster, making fun of those that were not manly men like himself, while he could not begin to handle the bows he had. Now I know lots of guys can handle the heavy stuff, I did, but it took a lot of work on my part. A weak shot from a super heavy bow, where one gets sloppy arrow flight, is rarely as deadly as a strong shot from a moderate bow, where one gets predictable good arrow flight.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
A weak shot from a super heavy bow, where one gets sloppy arrow flight, is rarely as deadly as a strong shot from a moderate bow, where one gets predictable good arrow flight.
I agree 100%, yet again this is why this is such a difficult topic because it is so subjective. I would say someone who can not master the weight they are pulling is overbowed and good arrow flight ties in with the as heavy as you can shoot accurately.
Sorry double post
:archer2:
A heavy bow lets me shoot a larger broadhead. I like short, heavy bloodtrails. I can drop weight gradually as I get older. But I wouldn't have that option if I started on the low end of reasonable draw weight.
OK, I'm a wimpy 50# guy, well my heaviest bow is 50#, lol...
I truly enjoyed the article, the man really was ahead of his time, or at least I think so.
Thanks for sharing.
Bisch,
I often shoot more than 100 on a typical week, but counting life's obligations, trips, horrible weather, short days, and other things, I pulled that number as an average. The real point is we shoot a ton of arrows (you certainly included) and that causes repetitive stress using good form or not.
So, using the debt and dollar bills analogy - if we took all the arrows Bish has ever shot and laid them tip to tip, they would go to the moon and back. :goldtooth:
We always rehash this topic and end up exactly where we started.
You know, this discussion keeps coming up and always seems to have some common threads:
1. If we really tried, all of us could be shooting 100+ # bows. It's just lack of interest or effort that keeps some of us from doing that. Come on guys, if that were the case, there would be no need for the second two steps on the podium at the Olympics. Everyone would be standing on the same step. All those people put time, effort and practice into developing their bodies. Some are just better than others.
2. We owe it to the animal to shoot a heavy weight bow. The heavier the bow, the heavier the arrow we can throw at the same speed - therefore the cleaner the kill. So why shoot 100# stick bows instead of 100# wheelies?
In my 72 years I've never managed to accululate as much wisdom as I'd hoped, but I have learned to site my blinds to give myself a good angle on a close shot and I'm willing to pass on those shots with which I'm not comfortable. I still enjoy my hunting immensely even though I may have to let a few keep on walking that others might put on the ground.
I think we need to get back to enjoying our traditional sport and the camaraderie that exists in that sport and quit bashing each other.
Just one wimp's opinion.
Fred Eichler has done OK with only a 54# bow.
i tried shooting my 90# longbow today,new to me,and have a long way to go.i'll shoot 75#rs all afternoon with good accuracy,but i'm sure it'll take a while for me to get there with to 90#..take a look at this video of my trial with it today,i cannot nearly hunt with it yet..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3i1BuBg&feature=youtu.be
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
i tried shooting my 90# longbow today,new to me,and have a long way to go.i'll shoot 75#rs all afternoon with good accuracy,but i'm sure it'll take a while for me to get there with the 90#..take a look at this video of my trial with it today,i cannot nearly hunt with it yet..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3i1BuBg&feature=youtu.be
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[QB] QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[qb] i tried shooting my 90# longbow today,new to me,and have a long way to go.i'll shoot 75#rs all afternoon with good accuracy,but i'm sure it'll take a while for me to get there with the 90#..take a look at this video of my trial with it today,i cannot nearly hunt with it yet..............
..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3i1BuBg&feature=youtu.be
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[QB] QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[QB] QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[qb] i tried shooting my 90# longbow today,new to me,and have a long way to go.i'll shoot 75#rs all afternoon with good accuracy,but i'm sure it'll take a while for me to get there with the 90#...
if I shoot 55 at 30 and you shot 65 at 28 am I a light bow guy and your a heavey bow guy. get over it go shoot have fun enjoy life
QUIET...While everyone is arguing about this, the deer are getting away! :deadhorse:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bladepeek:
So why shoot 100# stick bows instead of 100# wheelies?
I am all for the brotherhood of the trad bow and I have the utmost respect for anyone on this journey. That is why I don't get this portion of your post at all. When I shot wheelies I did shoot a 100# bow, not because I think it's macho or whatever but because it was fun for me. The same reason is why I shoot heavy trad, it's more fun for me this way and its something I have to continue to work at daily. To each their own, I have no animosity towards anyone shooting any weight and I would hope no one has animosity towards me because I shoot a heavy weight.
Ishi had a 45# bow.I have a #45 ben peason cougar and it feels good.I think this is healthy debate and dont see bashing.I like to read REAL opinions and not what is popular.I dont think there is a wrong or right way. :campfire:
I am not sure how to explain what I perceive after reading a lot of the responses on this thread, but I will add a little more mud to this watery debate. When I read the original article put forth, it indicated that the average guy could work up to heavier bows if he was willing to do the work. This, by nature of the writer's tone, implies the ability to place an arrow appropriately and to use adequate broadheads, proper form, etc.
Some of the proponents of the light bows (and this is solely my interpretation of some of the responses I have read so far)go on to emphasize that arrow placement is the key as if they think it unlikely that the average archer is capable of achieving this same degree of form and control with the heavier bow.
It is my belief that the original writer of the article was simply a believer that a hunter should consider a heavy bow, and that he believes that shot for shot a heavier bow/arrow is likely to perform more effectively than lighter equipment. In other words, not a put down to lighter equipment but rather seeking a slight performance edge. Keep in mind that his article was written at a time when many gun hunters and game managers did not feel that any archery tackle is sufficient for hunting, and many of these were in open opposition to the legalization of bow hunting.
I really am enjoying this thread, because of all items of discussion related to bow hunting, I think most hunters feel more passionate about this topic than any other. If archery lasts for another thousand years, archers will be participating in discussions just like this. I love it.
check this out,trying my 90 pounder for the first time..it's gonna take a while http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3...ature=youtu.be
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[QB] check this out,trying my 90 pounder for the first time..it's gonna take a while http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[QB] QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
[QB] check this out,trying my 90 pounder for the first time..it's gonna take a while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3i1BuBg&feature=youtu.be
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9P3i1BuBg&feature=youtu.be
my first crack at shootin a 90# bow,it's gonna take some time,my brace arm is not there yet.but in time, it will be,,i remember when a 60# bow felt this hard at first.
When you can sit in a tree for 3-4 hours motionless on a 30 degree day and then grab your 90-100 pound bow and shoot it accurately your ready. Until then your heavy bow is a bad choice and ill advised.
It's one thing to say "I can shoot a 90 or 100lb bow".
It's another to draw it back slowly in a hunting type situation, in the cold and use proper back tension and make an accurate shot.
I don't practice by just jerking back 90lb and letting it go.
I try to have proper practice shooting my 55lb recurve, going thru a shot sequence, good form, back tension, taking my time and making an accurate shot.
no doubt,this is a novelty for me ,i'll shoot my 75#rs all morning all thoughout the year,cold or warmed up,i bought the 90 as something to build up to,i've got an 80#r coming this week to fill in the gap between my 75 and 90 pound bow.,i'm already fit and able ,i'm just working my sport up and over for the fun of it all!it's gonna take some time to develop on the 90.that's the fun!
Nothing wrong with having fun with it.
Nothing wrong with having fun with it.
Ironmike I watched the youtube video. You sound like Grizzly Adams and just as strong by the looks of it.
Over the years I have found I would rather shoot against someone with a heaver bow compared to a light one.To bad most of the heavy shooters are gone.
I made a jump from 54# to 65# this year. My hopes to going up in weight is that I can build stronger muscle and be able to shoot any bow in another 30 years. If you don't build and use the muscles imo you will surely lose them sooner. CAUTION Always consult your physician before beginning a workout regimen. :laughing:
I got as far as when the .22 rifle was compared to a 50 pound draw weight bow.
I stopped reading. I can smell contempt when I read it.
I'm glad this wasn't the first post I've ever read on Trad Gang or I wouldn't have been around for the 2nd one.
In 44 years of bowhunting I have NEVER lost an animal because I was shooting equipment too light for the job.
yeah,the regiment required for shooting a heavy bow is truly just as scientific as any regiment in the games or sports requiring specific goals and levels of performance and endurance,you can shoot a 45 pound bow all your life and eat twinkies for breakfast lunch and dinner,there isn't a regiment required to shoot a bow like that,providing that there is no handicap or infirm condition.that old writer i believe had an indelible impression on him to be equal to anything in the woods while your in the woods.in california,you can not carry a side arm while bearhunting,...i will not go bear hunting without at least a 65# bow..80 is better,especially when i hunt alone..on the ground..we don't have trees stands out here.
My father always stressed cut on impact broadheads, good FOC arrows, and bow poundage. His K-mag was 65 lbs...that's a lot with it's short length, string angle makes that 65 lbs bite pretty hard! We took a lot of moose together, and his did nothing spectacularly different than mine, 10 lbs lighter. That being said I am not against heavy bows...I'm actually for shooting the heaviest possible that still maintains consistancy, form, etc.
For me it isn't the power but the release. I picked up an 85 lb bow and was amazed at how much better my shot was. I figure it must have to do with the heavier bow forcing me to align my body better, and the cleaner release that the heavy draw gives me.
But I'm only good for about a dozen shots, then I start to shake and the 55 lb'er wins hands down for the next 100 shots.
Just me - not advocating or arguing anything.
One thing about all of the heavy longbows that i have had over the years, they don't all shoot the same. I had one bow that was way too heavy out to the tips and another built by Jerry Hill that was not. The Jerry Hill was ten pounds lighter and shot a heavy Acme cedar many yards farther than the heavier bow. When doing further testing, the heavier bow would not shoot as stiff a spine as the JH. Further comparison found that a 64 pound Schulz would also shoot the stiffer arrow farther than the 89 pound bow and it also shot the stiffer arrow straight. Then there was the 96 pounder that was able shoot an even stiffer arrow farther yet and it was smoother than the 89 pound bow. Sometimes the numbers on the bow,as far as performance is concerned, are just numbers.
Another thing i have noticed about old articles from bowhunters in the past is, they thought it was perfectly ok to shoot at deer 50 yards or more away and most of us now wont shoot at one over 20to 30 yards.
While I don't think I will ever try to shoot a heavy bow in the 70# plus range, I do find it an interesting subject. In the book "Bowhunting's Whitetail Masters", John Kolometz talks about hunting with an 84# longbow and it seems like all the trad guys in that book shoot a bow 65# and up. I never even considered it but it's interesting to see how many heavy bow shooters there are here just in reading some of the responses.
I may have to pull out my "heavy" :biglaugh: (58#) longbow and work my way up to it before deer season.
Thanks for posting the article. It has inspired some thought and interesting discussion.
John
If you can properly handle the draw weight and enjoy it, by all means do so. I used to be of heavy bow more poundage mind set, with my current setups I put much more stock into bow tuning and arrow weight vs bow poundage.
The animal you shoot (kill), does not know what numbers are on the side of your bow or what they mean. There is a lot more in the details to an efficient bow setup than then draw weight alone. The arrow does the killing and more specifically the BH passing through vital organs causing hemorrhage is the objective. Improving the efficiency of the arrow and placing it accurately is the game.
Not all bows perform equally and not all archers shoot bows equally well. There are too many variables and factors to consider. It is difficult to arrive at apples to apples comparisons.
I disagree that we all have the ability to shoot an 80# bow, that's like saying with practice, we can all bench press 300 lbs. Too much to write Re: this subj. I admire people that can draw heavy bows and think it amazing but comparisons between everyone are anecdotal.
I am of the opinion that every N. American game animal can be killed cleanly, ethically and efficiently with a modern longbow or recurve drawing 55#@28" with attention paid to all the details that contribute to efficient performance, perfect arrow flight, precise shot placement and a carefully constructed arrow, tipped with a lethally sharp COC BH.
For the record, I can draw 80# but would not choose to hunt with this weight for a myriad of reasons.
Strive to learn as much as you can about all facets of this passion and use a "balanced approach".
Have fun and enjoy the flight of your arrow!
Kris
yeah,but i am most comfortable with the most that i shoot well,what ever that is at the time,right now that's 75-78 pounds,i don't know yet if 90 #will be my preferred when i build up to it because i won't know till i have actually built up to it.again ,in the mountains,solo,no side arm,i want the ability to put an arrow through the breastplate of a bear,i cannot control a bear coming down on me with a 320 grain arrow.nope,not me,i want 800 or 1000 grains.