it seems too me that trad archery/bowhunting its growing in popularity. It may have always been the choice for alot of us but new to many and almost "retro" to even more. So why hadn't mainstream caught on to this and have some traditional bowhunting shows on the tube what with the season around the corner?
Maybe I just don't are enough tv to notice, but I never see trad in the outdoor channels. I'm tired of seeing the latest and greatest compound take a deer at 70 yards.
(not hating on compounds. Just want too see trad)
Thanks for reading a little rant.
not enough products to be sold?? not sure, but even Fred E. is pressured into shooting a compound some.....
Its more a novelty for TV (not a way of life)
Most viewers tune in to see animals shot. In trad hunting shot oppertunities are less. Most wont tune in to watch a guy set in the woods for 30 minutes and not see a deer.
Also these shows are ad driven. Every gadget know to man is advertised. I could see a guy showing how to make homemade scent killer.
The other thing is that it could, if done poorly, reflect badly on the trad community.
Eastons bowhunting has trad (Fred E)
Also Bowhunter TV has some (Larry D Jones)trad hunts.
$$$$$! Not enough sponsors to make a TV show work. It would be neat to see a show dedicated to trad hunting though.
Bisch
I hear you Kyle, and like you, I too would enjoy watching a trad archery hunting show. However, my opinion is those shows are about selling products first, and hunting second. That said, I do not think there is a large enough market of trad archery buyers to make it a viable enterprise. Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I still would love a trad hunting show with my coffee every Sat. Morning.
Bob.
I always enjoyed watching tred barta. He had so much joy for the hunt. Sure, he ruffled feathers, but it sure was entertaining.
I have read in several articles that Trad archery is the fastest growing of all the hunting disciplines. I would love to see a Traditional Bowhunter Tv program. I think it may be feasible in the near future especially with big names like Sitka, Muzzy, and Bear out there promoting the sport. There are also several notable Tv and magazine writers/producers that would be on board. There are plenty of other "novelty" hunting shows out there why not one for us?
You answered the question in your original post. Hunting TV is too much about the kill to pass up longer range shots that can be made with modern compounds.
Honestly we have tons of big name sponsors in the trad and compound world. Easton, bear, PSE, martin. Not to mention broadheads, Camo, scent killer (for some. Still a sponsor), tree stands, blinds, knives. The only thing different sponsor wise between trad and modern is the bow and sometimes the arrow (excluding fletching obviously).
The sponsors are there. That's all I'm saying.
There is a cool series coming up in September on "Back Lands TV" about the evolution of archery. Scott Anderson is the producer. They start with the "Ice Archer" they found in Europe and will go through a lot of different traditional bows to the compound bow.
Scott Anderson will be hunting all next year with traditional equipment. It should be interesting to watch....Kirk
I think about this one a lot.
Yes, the networks and sponsors are really missing the boat on this one(what a shock!).
In the 1990's there was a resurgence in fly-fishing due to one movie, A River Runs Through It.
Now try and find a spinning rod in a TV commercial a greeting card,or print ad, you won't, it's all fly-fishing or a model pretending to be flyfishing.There are many tv shows now that are just flyfishing. Orvis, Sage, G Loomis, Simms, and the like, are crying all the way to the bank.
The same thing can happen for traditional bowhunting.
The Hunger Games....
I disagree on the "kill" aspect of hunting shows.
We all know that they are filming thousands of hours of video to get that compound kill sequence. The same thing could be done with a trad bow and an experienced hunter(ie. Fred Eichler, he does it already as does Tred Barta)
What we need is something that focuses on the process of hunting; scouting, building arrows, sharpening broadheads, building a ground blind, missing at times,etc. There's something to be said for having a novel approach to an endeavor.
However, if the network or sponsor thought it needed to be about the kill, it very well could be, why couldn't it?
Here's what it will take(are you listening big time sponsors?):
A sponsor willing to pay to have productions made(they are generally produced first, sold to the network later as a finished product)
A likeable, exceptional bowhunter or several, we have many in our midst.How does Bill Langer not have a nationally televised show?(have you seen some of the guys that do?)
The show airs, commercials for many of the same products we use and some specific to trad are shown.The show is different so it becomes popular.
(which equals happy sponsors)
It simply amazes me that no one has made the investment(I would if I had the capital).
It's probably going to take several of US to get this going, who else?
I realize I'm mostly preaching to the choir but this choir is growing.
Tarponnut hit the nail on the head! Agreed!!
I just don't know where to start only to say I hear you guys. A show based on what draws me to trad archery is more about the adventure than a harvest. The rustic camp, true friendship not the phony stuff you see on t.v. A little how to and hints and tips would be nice. I could go on but I'm sure I wouldn't be saying anything you guys don't already know or think about.
Don't get me wrong, I love watching trad-bowhunting. But honestly I don't know how I would feel about trad being mainstream on some of these hunting channels that seem to blow everything out of proportion. Like kill shot mentioned before, to me trad is about the companionship, the passion for nature, and just the joy and adventure of the hunt. Many of the hunting channels simply do not grasp these concepts because lets face it in today's society there are many people that hunt for other reasons than the reasons I have mentioned. When I get the itch to watch some real bowhunting I simply pop in primal dreams, bowhunting october whitetails, or the fred bear series. These guys know what bowhunting is all about and that is good enough for me.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the way I understand hunting shows work currently,is that in order to get aired ALL that is required is to have enough footage for a years worth of shows (a huge task in itself) (then keep right on filming for next year) and about $100K for the guy who airs it for you...Pursuit Channel, Outdoor Channel, etc.
Of course I forgot to mention the cost of camera, in HD, and a fairly sophisticated editing system, complete with training.
So yeah...the only thing stopping any of us is $$.
AQnd it might take awhile to recoup the investment.
That being said, I have always thought a nice combination would be an educational/travel/history/ hunt show. (You guys load up my RV...I'll do the driving.)
Of course if there isn't 2/3rds advertising and 1/3rd actual footage, probably not many sponsors would be interested.
I used to watch hunting shows like it was a passion or a sickness.
When some insider friends related as to how a poor archery hit could be moved pixel by pixel to the correct spot depicting a "never miss" TV Hero, thru creative editing, and combining that with the force feeding of all the gimmickry associated with modern archery...I just quit watching. Haven't seen a show in three years.
I'm sure I missed out on some good stuff, but I can't force myself to turn those shows on again.
A trad show with a genuine guy like Langer is sorely needed.
JMHO
Irv Eichorst
www.truesouthadventures.com (http://www.truesouthadventures.com)
Kirk,
Glad to hear that Scott Anderson has a new trad show coming out.I look forward to it.
Kyle is right.I don't want to name companies but as Kyle said above, we have big time sponsors that could do this tomorrow. What difference does it make to them if it's an $800 trad bow or $800 compound?(besides the obvious, numbers of bows sold).
Just because the average guy shoots a compound doesn't mean they won't buy a trad bow and maybe even give up the wheels in time.
The shows in a lot of ways drive what's the norm.
I'm getting off topic, though. The original question was: why aren't there more trad specific hunting shows? There is plenty of room for one or more.
It doesn't always boil down to money either.
Fred Bear could have patented many of his innovations and didn't for the good of the sport.
I just got a verbal commitment from one of our own that would host the show and not charge a dime for his time, effort, and expertise.
Good guys are still out there and are among us.
Let's find some sponsors and do a real bowhunting show!
As much as it would be nice to see a quality Trad Bow hunting show, I just know that the media would screw it up and make us look bad in some way..... :archer: :archer:
I'd love to see a trad only show or too. I like Eichler, but he has too much compound hunting in his show to suit me still.
I am probably the odd man out here but find the entertainment value in watching someone else hunt or fish by any method to be just about non-existent.
Only way I know to fix this problem is for everyone here to spend 2 billion dollars in the traditional market to catch up to the dollars spent in todays archery gear (compounds) :D
Cash pays the bills.....and high dollar TV airtime.
Yeah, the only way it would work if the producers of said show were traditional bowhunters themselves, because unless you are a truly dedicated traditional bowhunter, you don't get it, you don't understand why we do what we do, the ideal show to me would have more time spent around a campfire than in the woods, would show the dedication and diligent practice, honing ones skills shooting, sharpening, arrow building etc.... I know enough of the general public that finds those processes insignificant, point is that most of the MOB just doesn't get and probably never will. The only hunting show in the past decade worth it's salt was the videos that Keith beam and brooks Johnson from double bull archery put out, because to them it was about fun and you could see that clear as a Montana sky
What's sad now, IMHO, is that many of these "archers' shown on these shows are making a switch to crossbows. As if we didn't have enough marketing being pushed for "training-wheel" bows here comes something that some what resembles a bow with a scope mounted on it. So much for effective range!
I'd love to see a traditional hunting show but I would settle for any archery hunting show, stickbows or compounds, that wasn't 50% marketing, 30% idiots jumping, screaming, and high-fiving over a kill, 15% juvenile humor, and had more than 5% actual footage of game, scenery, and realistic hunting.
If you have not read it yet, I highly recommend the editorial in the Aug/Sept 2013 "Traditional Bowhunter" magazine. It is titled, "The Joy of Cooking," and it speaks to how our newest friends, the culinary community, are discovering venison, and with it, hunting. While neither the article nor any of the cooking shows/books/magazines are specific to trad, the sentiment is leaning our way (if you squint your eyes just right).
OK...it's not Trad TV, yet, but I sense a strong resurgence toward self-reliance and minimalist lifestyles in much of the current TV programming.
Just be careful what you ask for.....How many newbie trad wannabees do you want stumbling into your honey hole looking to kill a deer within the 30 minutes it takes to do so on television?
Kingsnake
There must be enough trad video's out with several hunts on them. If just one hunt a week was shown, could produce a season's worth of shows. Just get permission to use them :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
There is a cool series coming up in September on "Back Lands TV" about the evolution of archery. Scott Anderson is the producer. They start with the "Ice Archer" they found in Europe and will go through a lot of different traditional bows to the compound bow.
Scott Anderson will be hunting all next year with traditional equipment. It should be interesting to watch....Kirk
Will he be using a Bigfoot bow like Sasquatch?
My question is....why?? I honestly think that the things that draw hunters to traditional archery are antithetical to big-time commercial production. And I don't mean just the equipment. None of the serious hard-core traditional bowhunters I know would be interested in putting themselves on TV. That would just ruin it. :(
QuoteOriginally posted by Easykeeper:
I'd love to see a traditional hunting show but I would settle for any archery hunting show, stickbows or compounds, that wasn't 50% marketing, 30% idiots jumping, screaming, and high-fiving over a kill, 15% juvenile humor, and had more than 5% actual footage of game, scenery, and realistic hunting.
True words. About the only show that fits this bill at all us Meateater, and it isn't archery at all...
Call me overly optimistic but a trad hunting show would work great on tv right now. Just not on regular outdoor channels.
Get a guy who is charismatic, genuine, a crack shot, knows a lot about nature and is good at sharing information. Have him tour wild places all over the world while showing the animals and people of the place while hunting with a trad bow (think Steve Irwin mixed with Howard Hill). I don't even think you would need that many hunting sponsors
With what shows are popular now History, Discovery and National Geographic would start a war trying to get the rights to a show like that
Ryan,
Why have a web-site devoted to traditional archery hunting? None of the serious hardcore traditional bowhunters I know even own computers.
Good thing Howard Hill or Fred Bear were never interested in filming hunts,lol!
Just kidding man:)
I do get where you are coming from, though.
It does seem counter-intuitive in some ways, but today I was fletching arrows, now I'm typing on a computer, and tomorrow I will be guiding hog hunters. A dad and two young sons, I'm even taking my 9 year old son/apprentice along to help out!
It just literally pains me to see some of the garbage TV that's out there.
I'm just saying we can do a lot better.
We have a far more interesting story to tell.
It's literally older than the written word and there are a growing number of people that are being drawn to the real archery.
Lets give then an authentic TV show about bowhunting, or, if they happen to be at our campfire, tell them a true hunting story(they should be one in the same).
QuoteOriginally posted by ron w:
As much as it would be nice to see a quality Trad Bow hunting show, I just know that the media would screw it up and make us look bad in some way..... :archer: :archer:
I couldn't agree more... don't wake the dog..
look at how the hunting vids have changed over the years, compound mainly, but the same with the wenzels and Paul Brunners productions of earlier days,I really enjoyed Alan Altizer slipping up on a bedded buck or spending 1/2 the time explaining his scouting etc...as well as Barry making that great running shot.. that kinda stuff could make a great show, but to just sit in a tree stand and shoot deer or whatever no matter what the equipment has no attraction to me in the least..it seems all the newer folks are just interested in the end result that being the kill, and it needs to happen quickly... i would love to see a good trad show that offered adventure and knowledge not just "smoking" a monster " shooter buck"
I think a trad show would leave out a lot of stuff I truly hate. How many shows have you guys seen where after the shot you hear " he's down, he's down? Or when a buck shows up during the last 8 minutes of the show, you just know he's done for.
The biggest reason it will never happen and I'm glad is, stickbow hunting is not an over night deal. It takes time and work to become proficient enough to even be ethical to take to the woods. Plus most bowyers are not going to throw money at folks to use there product to get rich, they enjoy building them one at a time and catering to the small following they have.
And biggest reason, most traditional hunters me included even though I'm still a green horn, relizaes 99.99 percent of the stuff marketed today is a joke. Guys been killing big deer in jeans and flannel shirts for years. Can you see a guy setting in a tree stand holding a long bow with cedars and a ozone machine strapped to the tree.
If we had our own show, I wouldn't want it aired on the same channel as shows with jerks like razor dobbs. Guilt by association. On the other hand, if that dirt bag can get a show, there's no reason one of the good guys here can't get one.
$$$, its all about $ and sponsors...thats why fred went from shooting a palmer recurve to a hoyt. just the way things work im guessing. i always thought black widow would eventually come out with a trad show, im sure the company has the financial means to break into this market. i too wish we had an all trad tv show.
Watch those shows with a make fun mindset. I watched one a while back and the bowhunter said that his 6 year old son asked him "to harvest a mature doe". Can you guys imagine a 6 year old talking like that? Maybe after the kid said that he went back to reading the wall street journal.
I remember the only trad hunting on t v was the late Mr. Fred Bear on the Wild Kingdom show
I think the best way to get more Trad on the TV is to have it partner with a program that is already running. You have a segment here and there. IF it gets more views then there would be a place for a dedicated show. With the views the sponsors will come IE more money for the network.
Probably 15 or 20 years ago, Gary Morris (country and western singer) had an "all trad" TV show, on Sunday afternoon, I believe. He frequently had a primitive bowyer named Brad Smith. The show lasted maybe 2 years. The show was very low key, very tasteful, and very enjoyable, at least to me. Sure wish they hadn't cancelled it.
QuoteOriginally posted by ichibuns:
I remember the only trad hunting on t v was the late Mr. Fred Bear on the Wild Kingdom show
I'm a bit young for this, however, I did purchase the Fred Bear Collection DVD (4 discs). It is everything that has been mentioned in the above "wish lists". Traditional, historical, educational, and entertaining. A great (anytime) view. My wife gave it to me as a Christmas gift last year and I played through them all day. The extended family came over and both hunters and non-hunters were transfixed. Great stuff!
Yeah, I remember Gary Morris' show! That was very well done. I'll bet something along those lines would do well today. Just look at all the outdoors related programming out there these days.
Also, notice how few of the sponsors are directly hunting related.
(Kill shot, I watch everything with a make fun mindset,lol.)
The time to do a show like this is now!
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
There is a cool series coming up in September on "Back Lands TV" about the evolution of archery. Scott Anderson is the producer. They start with the "Ice Archer" they found in Europe and will go through a lot of different traditional bows to the compound bow.
Scott Anderson will be hunting all next year with traditional equipment. It should be interesting to watch....Kirk
I met Scott on a dove hunt he was filming in Argentina. Yep, yours truly is going to be on it. Anyway, I'll just say that in my opinion, he's the real deal, and he has a passion for trad hunting. We talked about the new series he has coming up. I really look forward to seeing it.
I think some of the episodes should include a day at the archery range. Not the Bigdeal McNeal range full of 3-d targets, just the old fashion one with bales and the traditional targets.
QuoteOriginally posted by Keb:
Can you see a guy setting in a tree stand holding a long bow with cedars and a ozone machine strapped to the tree.
No, I sure can't! That said, I believe a well made show would survive quite well. There are plenty of hunters for whom the journey means more than the desitnation, even in the "modern bowhunting" world. It would take a combined effort form several dedicated folks and would be a labor of love more than an instant money maker. I wish I had a clue as to how to get it started. I'm sure not a videographer.
I think a well made show could make a go of it. Just look at all the survivalist type shows and shows like Mountain Men, Fly Alaska. They aren't about Traditional Archery per se, but they all have a theme about backwoods skills, going back in deep and relying woodsmanship...etc If people will tune in these type of shows I would think they would also watch a well made traditional hunting show, with segements showing how equipment is crafted, tracking/stalking skills, camaraderie around the camp at the end of the day, and the satisfaction felt when it all comes together. But like others have said it will take $$$.
QuoteOriginally posted by Burnsie:
I think a well made show could make a go of it. Just look at all the survivalist type shows and shows like Mountain Men, Fly Alaska. They aren't about Traditional Archery per se, but they all have a theme about backwoods skills, going back in deep and relying woodsmanship...etc If people will tune in these type of shows I would think they would also watch a well made traditional hunting show, with segements showing how equipment is crafted, tracking/stalking skills, camaraderie around the camp at the end of the day, and the satisfaction felt when it all comes together. But like others have said it will take $$$.
I was thinking the same thing.
I enjoy Mountain Men. I take it for what it is worth but I think that the History Channel could do something similar with the premise being Traditional Archery and show the development of the skills it takes, etc...
I have thought about a trad show for years but paying $5000 per episode to air on outdoor channel, $1000 per episode to edit, plus cost of video equipment and the fact of a full time job it would take more than I am capable of doing!! I love the idea though!!!!!