Anybody use them? Thinking about getting one for my moose hunt.
If u have one you want to get rid of let me know - dragons layer???
Mike,
I have a NICE frame with a 6500, Metcalf, and Crew Cab bag and they carry HEAVY loads best in that order. Have a Load Sling as well. Some complain they are heavy, but I do not mind an extra couple pounds for the bullet proof construction and load handling ability.
I believe the Dragon Slayer has its own frame and is more of a daypack?
I am looking for a day pack. Outfitter said day pack perferred. They have the equipment for heavy hauling.
Would really like to try a dragons layer.
What Steve said! I have the NICE frame Crew Cab and it's the most versatile pack I've ever owned. Many will talk about ounces but it's more about fit and design than just weight.
I dont think you can go wrong with an MR product but you really should look at the NICE frame!
Mike, the Dragonslayer or more likely the Bighorn are what you are looking for then. Definitely SOLID daypacks.
Kifaru Spike Camp or Late Season would be another high end daypack.
After that you are into Eberlestock X2, HornHunter, and Badlands 2800/2200 territory and they are definitely a lower rung. I carried 93# of Sitka Blacktail and gear on Kodiak Island a decade ago in a USA made Badlands 2200. They don't make them like that any more and I am a lot smarter now :D
I debated back and forth between the two MR packs your looking at and the two Kifaru packs mentioned above. My wife made the choice for me by getting me a gift certificate to Kifaru for our 25th anniversary :bigsmyl: (she got some finger bling)My Late Season showed up a few days ago and all I can say is WOW what a quality built pack, can't wait to try it out this fall!
Steve
For day pack I'd take a look at Hill People Gear. Their harness is the most comfortable I've ever worn and I've tried most everything out there.
Mike,
Lots of good packs of course. I have the MR Dragonslayer and happen to think it carries better than any daypack I've ever owned. It has an integral frame, but not anything stiff or heavy. The pack is adjustable for torso length, and let me tell you...that is invaluable for comfortable all-day carry. The shoulder straps and hip belt are more heavily padded than your typical $150 daypack. In fact, the Dragonslayer is basically a true heavy-duty pack...just downsized to around 2100 cubes. The design results in a very slim bag which carries well through brush and branches. All in all, it's a very hard core hunting pack which is more than tough enough for many moose hunts. My pack is headed to Alaska in just under 60 days...again.
Do any stores sell MR packs or they direct only? I would like to compare them and put them on. Sounds like they have great CS - do they do free returns like "zappos" until you run the right "shoe" that fits?
Mike
Yes they do returns. I have a Metcalf and Crew Cab. I am 5'9" with a 32" waist and use a medium yoke and a small waist belt. I wish the small waist belt was a little bit smaller. The nice thing about the NICE system is the ability to add future bags to the harness system, one harness multiple bags. For a smaller day pack I use one of their hotshots. These packs are made for the firefighters, but I find that they also make for a great smaller daypack. Lots of open pockets for easy access. I can fit alot of gear into one of these, but would not like to try to pack an animal out in it.
I tried last year to do a mile with 230 pounds in my Crew Cab, I did not make it very far, but the bag and harness held up under the load (two 50 kilo plates in the bag). I typically do 5 to 7 miles a couple of times a week with 80 to 100 pounds in the bag in the off season, the NICE system handles this with ease.
One other thing, Biathlonman and SteveO always have good advice when it comes to these types of setups and backpacking gear.
I may have found a crew cab for sale. Need more details on that pack. Looks very versatile.
I have used several MR packs, and although they are extremely rugged and durable, they are heavy, and the running joke with my sheep hunting buddies is to call them Misery Ranch, because they can be pretty uncomfortable when loaded, I would suggest you check out Kifaru's line, they are also very durable, and the most comfortable pack I've ever worn, even when loaded heavy. The one I currently use is the prototype timberline (full size pack), I've taken it on 2 sheep hunts, and 2 goat hunts and it's holding up great!
Which kifaru? Spike camp?
yeah,that would be a good pick, but since I got mine, they have come out with smaller versions of the timberline that are excellent as well, their suspension system is awesome for load bearing and comfort.
i just watched a video on the crew cab and i am really impressed on versitility.
more thoughts?
I used a Badlands 2200 for the past 5 elk hunts and really liked the pack. More than once I used it to pack out elk quarters and various loads in the 75 lbs range. I know that I exceeded the intended design of that pack but it always performed. However, on a recent trip a buddy picked up a Mystery Ranch Longbow and let me try it on to show much how well it carried average loads in the 40 lb range. I was very impressed but where the pack really shined was when we were able to remove the pack and lash an entire elk rack, head and cape right to the Nice Frame. I was so impressed with the carrying capacity that I am now the owner of a MR Crew Cab. This fall will be my first backpack style hunt with the crew cab but my initial tests while training tells me it's a keeper.
I think I am going to see if mystery ranch will send me a crew cab to try - if too heavy maybe they will let me swap for dragonslayer???? That would make it easier.
The "issue" (if you want to call it that) with the CC is the shallow angle of the load lifters if you have a torso longer than 18".
Load lifters become an issue when more than 30lbs is being packed because the weight is not being transferred to the hips, but rather to the shoulders.
They are great packs IF THEY WORK FOR YOU. If they don't, they are heavy and uncomfortable. Like any pair of boots or good pack, one size does not fit all.
Any pack with working load lifters will be slightly higher than the shoulders. Some guys don't like this (feels it impedes travel through brush). You are either looking for a pack that hauls well, or is strictly a daypack. Compromise either way.
If you are feeling like spending once/crying once, look at a Metcalf from MR or look at a Stone Glacier Solo.
The dragons layer is nice if you only need a day pack. I just got back from a 16 mile overnight trip with my Crew cab. Very comfortable, tough, and versatile. If you really have no need for a frame pack I would stay away from it.
I prefer my Bison pack for day hunts where I know I won't be packing out a critter. Much smaller and compact as well as fleece which I love.
I am pretty sure I will not be packing meat AND I am 6'2" with a long back and short legs. So NOW am concerned about crew cab not working.
Some people love and some don't - is it because of there build and size?
QuoteSome people love and some don't - is it because of there build and size?
Fit is everything, and yes, people with a longer torso find the CC to not work as well as people with mid-length torsos.
I am a shorter/stockier guy, but i have a long torso and found the CC with 30-35 pounds fine. With 50lbs plus i could't lose it fast enough.
Having said that, if you aren't hauling 100lbs in it, you may find it works. If load hauling became a goal, there is a company that sells a retrofit stay kit for longer torso CC users (it's about $85).
Again, there are day packs, and then there are packs that function as day pack/load haulers. For every guy hunting moose in Canada with a $450 pack, there are 50 hunting with a $50 daypack. When the moose hits the swamp, then the $100 Kelty pack frame comes out.
Another thread mentioned the OPW Orion. Great pack. Quiet, versatile, and with a couple of tweaks a great daypack with load hauling capacity. But again, do you REALLY NEED a $450 pack for this trip?
Need?? I am sure i could get by with either pack i have....but I like to "play". Plus i really would like a good pack.
I just dont understand why if you have the right size CC yoke - why would it not work? If you buy a used pack and buy the worng size then it makes sense,but .... What am i missing???
Just an opinion:
If you're not packing meat, you're way over-geared with a Crew Cab for everyday moose hunting. The frame/suspension is built to manage monster loads, but you probably won't go over 30 pounds ever. The bag will expand to 3x what you need, which probably more like 2000-2400 cubes.
The MR Crew Cab and Longbow packs (bags) both use the NICE frame. The frame/suspension is separate from the pack bag. The NICE frame is fantastic, unless you require functional load lifters...which you most likely would for long-distance hauls or repeated heavy loads like backpacking out a butchered moose a mile or so. If you're not planning for that kind of use, my advice is to pay little mind to the load lifters, as they matter almost nothing for daypack use.
It sounds like you'd be really happy with a top-line (manufacturer) daypack designed as much for hunting as for hauling. $300 should get you there. I have a $170 Eberlestock X2 and it's more than enough daypack for moose and elk.
You don't need an 80 pound bow to kill a moose, and you don't need a $500+ technical pack for day use. No point stressing your body, mind or bank account needlessly.
Mike,
Google "backpack load lifters".
Basically you want the weight of the heavy load to rest on your hips, not your shoulders. If you are 5-9 like Tutanka, the Crew Cab (or Longbow) IS going to haul a heavy load great. If you are 6-1 like me, the frame extensions (3") of the Metcalf and 6500 that are buuilt into the bag are going to help. Kifaru packs (most of them) have interchangeable stays up to 26" to create the proper shoulder trap anle to transfer the load OFF the shoulder and onto the hips.
You are getting answers here mostly from guys who are hunting way back and unguided. They need to carry camp all in and entire animals all out. These packs will all be overkill for a guided hunt where you are just carrying day hunting supplies.
If you get a MR NICE Frame, a Kifaru BT or DT based pack, or a Kuiu Carbon frame pack, you are going to be good for whatever you do. If you end up going on solo wilderness hunts, you can buy a 7000 cu in bag to go on the frame. Now you can go with a 2200-3000 cu in bag for your moose hun.t
If all you are ever going to do is guided hunts or local hunts, the best thing might be your MR Dragonslayer or Kifaru Spike Campr (or a standard Timberline 3). Kevin does not pack moose in Alaska with his DS, he has an external frame pack for the heavy duty hauling.
Sitka Gear makes great daypakcs like the Flash 32, the Eberlestock X2 would also be grand for your application. I am sure there are others, these are just what I have used. I've spent a lot of time and money looking for the "perfect" pack (and optics) :) Both make a big difference in the field.
I guess i really have no need for frame pack. I do mostly guided hunts and hunts that do not require me to carry camp gear. I was thinking i could buy one pack and be covered for any situation. For example couple years ago i did mountain lion hunt. 11 days of just carrying minimal gear and hiking 10-15 miles a day. I used a day pack and all was good until the 12th day when i shot my lion. Then it got ugly. I shot lion 15 miles (straight line) from the truck. Getting gear and lion back to truck was painful to say the least. I would have paid anything at that time for a real pack!! I also shot a black bear on Vancouver island and about killed myself getting the meat out on those hills. Now the outfitter would have done it himself eventually but i can't stand there and watch somebody else to all the work. So....thinking the same will happen on future hunts.
To make things more complicated i have a couple offers for used crew cabs that will put them in line with a new day pack. Sitka, eberlestock, and cheaper than DS or kifaru.
I dont want to be uncomfortable for 95% of the time just for the 5% of the time i may need it. BUT if i can have a pack the is a little heavy but very comfortable for day trips and then can be used for real work when it counts then that would be a win - win.
Oh BTW i am 6'2" with a long back and relatively short legs
With that information, if II were you, I would have a Kifaru Bikini frame and a Timberline 3 bag. I would stop looking at anything else, call Kifaru and see if they could get it to me in time to make the moose hunt. I would do that NOW ;)
OK i will go check into that combo.
Thanks for all the help
Steve-went to kifaru website - and i remembered why i kept looking away from their packs. Website is confusing. If i want a bikini frame and T3 bag am i really looking at 600+ dollars? The t3 bag only still shows shoulder straps etc.. Why if am going to have straps with the bikini frame?
I also went and watched some videos - looks great but seems big.
Why would u suggest this over dragonslayer?
Mike, i think that there may be some confusion as to what you are really looking for.
If you want a daypack, just a daypack, nothing for hauling serious loads, then the Dragonslayer would be it.
If you want a daypack with good load hauling abilities and have a torso length LONGER than 18-19", then the Kifaru.
If torso length LESS than 19' (not you from sounds of it) then the MR CC.
There is no 'perfect pack'. It is about compromise and what you realistically expect from the pack.
And yes, that Kifaru pack is $600. Steve suggested it because your previous couple of posts started to move away from a 'day pack only' question to a 'load hauler' question. Hence my suggestion earlier of a Stone Glacier.
Exactly...
You can get a Standard Timberline that has the stays in it and the suspension on it. That's it. The daypack to end all daypacks. It will carry 2800 cubic inches of lead.
You can also get a T3 bag along with the Duplex frame or a Bikini Duplex frame. They will carry the same enormous loads with the flexibility of using different bags.
Crew cab is not the best choice for an over 6' guy with long torso. Metcalf would be the NICE frame bag you would want IMO. I've heard good things about the DSlayer but have NO desire for just a daypack so have no first hand experience how it fits or carries.
There is a recent thread on the Bowsite on a Tenzing pack that morphed into a giant load lifter discussion. It would be worth your while to search it out.
I have run the gamut like most, trying to find the best for the cheapest. Like most things you get what you pay for...
A good daypack like the Dragonslayer is a phenomenal hunting device. It has a suspension capable of handling 80#+ loads, but manages to still feel like a daypack. I can't comprehend wanting a pack on my back...all day...which is primarily designed for larger loadouts, but seldom gets used for them. The DS is a very slim pack, and it rides well within the width of your back. It's essentially a slightly smaller brother to the NICE frame Longbow by MR...but lighter, less costly and easier to carry through the day. Another bonus is that this pack is most likely available immediately with little or no wait. If you're waiting 6 weeks to get a pack...it had better be the right one for you. You won't have time to swap out.
There's a reason the daypack was named that. Bigger packs are for bigger purposes. You will need to decide whether you need or want a pack which is capable of hauling much larger loads...but at much more cost. After many years of moose hunting in Alaska, the Yukon and BC, I have never wished for more than a superior daypack during an all-day hunt in some of the wildest country in North America.
Yeah, ^^^^that would be a great option, kifaru will custom fit the frame suspension to your torso size
Just remember that load carrying with the Dragonslayer often relies on proper use of the compression straps to atrtach the load, as the bag is a sub-3000cui capacity. When done properly it will carry the 80lbs that Kevin refers to.
Be honest with your self-evaluation of your hunting style, and your goals. The pack decision will follow.
*Full Disclosure*-I'm a gear junky, and am NEVER fully satisfied with a pack. There is no true 'do it all exceptionally' pack. It comes down to what is the most appropriate tool for the job.
Alright I think I am getting it.....hard to get clear on computer discussions. I think I will be MOST satisfied with a dragonslayer or a no frame kifaru. Now I just need to find one. Thanks for all your help and detailed explanations.
Anybody have any leads on someone that NEEDS a new pack and wants to get rid of a dragonslayer or kifaru pack???
I checked with MR and they do not have any seconds of DS but of course they have a CC - oooyyyy!!!
How much is a new Dragonslayer going for?
Keep in mind that MR packs have different sized yokes and belts. Be sure (if you buy used) you're getting the appropriate size.
Looks like $345 plus shipping