Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Stixbowdrew on July 01, 2013, 08:41:00 PM

Title: 2 fletch
Post by: Stixbowdrew on July 01, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
Was watching Jim neaves hunting video and saw that he was running 2 fletch on his axis steering his big game heads...... Anyone else doing this?
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: awbowman on July 01, 2013, 08:46:00 PM
Why would you do this ????
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Stixbowdrew on July 01, 2013, 08:54:00 PM
I guess it's just setting the bitz for 4-90 deg. And using every other ?? It looks intriguing
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Will Cocke 2 on July 01, 2013, 10:58:00 PM
Better feather clearance, less drag on the arrow. In smaller quivers better fletch clearance.    4x90 is correct I have shot it and like it.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: slivrslingr on July 01, 2013, 11:03:00 PM
Do you use a lot of helical?
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Stixbowdrew on July 02, 2013, 08:12:00 AM
I would think with just two fletch one would want to use as much helical as possible, but I'm not an expert, gonna try it soon
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Pat B on July 02, 2013, 08:55:00 AM
Two fletch can shoot as well as 3 or 4 fletch. When I make Eastern Woodland style 2 fletch I usually put about 90deg of twist to the fletching.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Slickhead on July 02, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
there are a few guys out there that use 2 fletch
arrows stack easy in a backquiver
less drag and I hear there is no difference.

gotta figure that if you bare shaft tune them it really should make a big difference.

I like the look of three better though
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Kris on July 02, 2013, 09:58:00 PM
I've experimented with it.  It works...surprisingly better than you might think.  I was exposed to it by Gordy Mickens of Selway archery at Compton's one year and I'm sure he had an influence on Jim Neeves in that regard.  

Gordy purported that a shaft fletched 180/180 flew better at every angle in the wind.  He did this in an open field on a windy day and 360'ed a target...the two fletched arrows w/BH's (big Magnus I's) out performed everything else he had fletched-up.  I hope I have the details right..it's been a few years.  

Fletch with same amount of off-set as you would anything else, orientate fletch at ~ 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock when nocked.

Makes for a simple and clean looking shaft.

Kris
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Sockrsblur on July 02, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
is 5" fletching ok or are larger feathers used on these arrows? seems interesting!
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: halfseminole on July 02, 2013, 10:23:00 PM
I've never shot anything other than two fletch.  Can't see putting the extra feather on for nothing.  I still hit anything I aim at, and the wind bothers it less up here in the mountains.  Besides, getting feathers here is rather difficult.

Mine are 11 and 5 o'clock, 3" feathers chopped to 1/2" tall.  I also do Seminole two fletch on cane (both split and tied.)  All work well enough I've never cared to try anything else.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Stixbowdrew on July 02, 2013, 10:38:00 PM
Awesome! In the process of doing some up now! Will post pics
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Nativestranger on July 02, 2013, 10:55:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Kris:
I've experimented with it.  It works...surprisingly better than you might think.  I was exposed to it by Gordy Mickens of Selway archery at Compton's one year and I'm sure he had an influence on Jim Neeves in that regard.  

Gordy purported that a shaft fletched 180/180 flew better at every angle in the wind.  He did this in an open field on a windy day and 360'ed a target...the two fletched arrows w/BH's (big Magnus I's) out performed everything else he had fletched-up.  I hope I have the details right..it's been a few years.  

Fletch with same amount of off-set as you would anything else, orientate fletch at ~ 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock when nocked.

Makes for a simple and clean looking shaft.

Kris
Thanks for the tip. 2 fletch is something I would want to try this year. 2 and 8 o'clock orientation makes a lot of sense for shelf clearance.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: VictoryHunter on July 02, 2013, 11:01:00 PM
I really want to try this! Can we see some photos? How should the feathers be oriented in relation to the nock?
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: TURKEYFOOTGIRL on July 02, 2013, 11:39:00 PM
Orientate the fletching so when you arrow is nocked the one against the bow lands in the crease between the shelf and your strike plate on the riser.  This way you never have to look at your arrow.  Either way you nock it it will be the same.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: VictoryHunter on July 02, 2013, 11:56:00 PM
Makes sense. I'm going to have try these out this season. I really dig the way they look. Will a regular old fletching jig work?
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: halfseminole on July 03, 2013, 12:06:00 AM
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1015783_10151466051132540_925393301_o.jpg)

 (https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1040576_10151466051152540_1089667239_o.jpg)

First set of modern type arrows.  Far more modern than any I'd ever used.  Arrow length is 36", no tips yet (either have to make or scrounge) birch sealed with polycrylic.  Feathers are natural duck.  I absolutely suck at fletching.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: dlnwohio on July 03, 2013, 09:13:00 AM
 (http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z463/dlnwohio/2011-11-06_11-57-55_353.jpg) (http://http:/s1191.photobucket.com/user/dlnwohio/media/2011-11-06_11-57-55_353.jpg.html)

Here's my 2 fletch arrows. I leave my bitz on 3 fletch setting turn it to glue on the cock feather glue the first one then remove the arrow spin it and then glue the second one one. In the end you have one at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock which is no different then shooting cock feather in. The steer my tree sharks just fine and they are 5" feathers.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Kris on July 03, 2013, 10:12:00 AM
As traditionalists, we've used too much fletching.  Back in the eighties, when all of this really took off, we had regular hunting arrows (almost exclusively wood) that looked almost like flu flu's.  We liked how they looked and liked seeing them spin to the target.  I still like that affect, however...  

We've come a long way in bare shaft tuning/bow tuning.  Carbon arrows and front loading (FoC) have contributed greatly for allowing less fletching to be effective.  It is surprising as to how little fletch you actually need.

Attributes gained; quietness, greater clearance from the hor. & vert. shelves,  less drag i.e. more retained energy, flatter traj., also low profile fletches are very durable and more resistant to wetting (oil line) and compression (stiffer).
 
An excellent read is Ashby's article on A&A (Adcock & Ashby) fletching, very similar to halfseminole's above.  Ashby found that he could obtain faster arrow recovery (somewhat counterintuitive), which was something he wanted for extremely close shots (3 meters) on buffalo.

Exciting stuff IMO.  Fun to experiment, no harm in that!

Kris
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: halfseminole on July 03, 2013, 12:07:00 PM
I still shoot some unfletched cane, ones that I know will fly straight off my bow anyway.  Anything I shoot gets tested with only a nock cut into it-not even a tip.  After I determine if it needs fletching or not, I'll fletch the worst and the best, and the rest will get used for stumping or harassing squirrels.  Amazingly a bare cane shaft will knock a squirrel senseless with no blunt on it-but the blunt is better insurance for responsible hunting.  I learned from Seminole Nation tribesmen, and I never shot seriously before that.  So the way I do things and the way many on here do things is very, very different, but I still hit my target and so do they.  

It reminds me I need to get more shafts.  I like cane better than wood so far, but I can't just go cut it when I want to.  Doesn't grow much round here, have to drive for a while to get it.

If you have an arrow to play with, and you can sacrifice its fletching, cut it down to 1/16" and see what happens.  It'll enlighten you.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: old_goat2 on July 03, 2013, 12:23:00 PM
I would think if your nocks are adjustable it wouldn't matter how your jig is set, just glue on a feather, after glue is set, pull arrow from jig, spin it over and replace it in jig and feathers should be 180 degrees. Then index the nock where you want it.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: VictoryHunter on July 03, 2013, 12:24:00 PM
I just ordered some arrows. Gonna give this 2 fletch thing a try!
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Biathlonman on July 03, 2013, 12:28:00 PM
Well you all have talked me into it!  I know my arrows shoot fine with 3-3" so 2-5" would still give me an extra inch of steering.  Just got to let the last coat of poly dry.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: ronp on July 03, 2013, 12:41:00 PM
I am going to give it a try.  I have some new shafts that bareshaft tuned pretty well.  I few years ago at a 3D shoot one of my feathers was shot off.  I shot the arrow with 2 feathers for the heck of it and it seemed to fly about the same as when it was 3 fletched.
Title: Re: 2 fletch
Post by: Kris on July 03, 2013, 04:18:00 PM
Exactly old_goat2 or set your Bitz to 90/90 (four fletch) and rotate 180 for the opposing fletch.

I also turbulate my arrows which is a band (cap wrap material) ~ 1/16" wide and a few thousandths high in profile, about 1/4" in front of the fletching.  This turbulates the air flow just in front of the fletching and allows laminar air flow to occur over the fletches thereby making them more efficient i.e. smooth/consistent air flow acting on the surface of the fletch.  

None of this is my idea but from Dr. Ed Ashby's/O.L. Adcock from his A&A article.  Cool stuff.  These concepts are used throughout the aerospace industry.  Try it to potentially improve the arrow flight with any fletch size and configuration.

Kris