Trad Gang

This year Alabama passed a new law allowing bait but you must be 100 yards from it and not be able to see it.  The club that I recently joined has decided to allow individuals to put out bait.  There are 70 members and about 6500 acres.  Some of these guys don't really even hunt, alot of them don't hunt more than 100 yards from their 4 wheeler and not far from camp. I am wandering how this is going to affect the hunting.  I do not plan on baiting and will be getting as far away from the other hunters as possible.  Anybody else that has hunted in this type of situation, what are your thoughts?  I am not looking for answers reguarding the ethics of baiting.  I choose not to but everyone has there own opinion.  I am just looking for insight on how this will affect the hunting in a state that has never allowed baiting.

I like hunting over bait. Its not always as effective as one might think though. Only takes a few killings at a bait site and the animals in question go on high alert.

I wish Washington state would have never banned bear baiting. Not being able to hunt cats with dogs is also nonsensical.

I have no problem with any kind of legal hunting or the use of any weapon that is legal.

The key to bait working for you, at least where we hunt, is minimizing pressure.  A mature deer will simply not come out in the open during legal shooting times if there is pressure, PERIOD.  They know that the bait is there and they will come only AFTER shooting time. There is no great hurry for them to be there.

The key to hunting bait is finding where they "stage up" to wait for dark.  Situate yourself near a feed tree (they may want a few acorns until they wait) that is dropping in between the bedding and the feed (at least 150-200 yards from the feed).

Mind you, we do hunt pressured deer, but that is my suggestion.

As a side note, I find bait is more effective early (when they are not as wired up) and LATE season (when the natural browse is dead and the feed trees are at the end of bearing acorns).

As a final note, the 2 greatest PLUSES for baiting is that it is the best way to keep deer fairly close to your hunting area AND my favorite, it will give a kid time to make a good ethical shot.

Hunting baited deer isn't like shooting fish in a barrel as some will have you believe.  Deer will come into the bait all jacked up and be VERY jumpy about everything.  Not many mature bucks will come to a bait site during daylight hours. I don't put bait out until the end of the growing/harvest season when all the fields are picked and the oaks are finished. I'll take natural bait over anything else every time. Just on the basis of the deer being more relaxed.... it's hard to beat a white oak when it's dropping acorns like rain!

FYI your deer might act totally different since this will be the first time baiting has been "legal".... They'll figure it out pretty quick though.

Just figure out where they're baiting and set up on trails leading that direction. Could work in your favor. From experience, deer are much less spooky on their way to bait, than while actually at the bait site.

I HATE baiting there are many articles written about how it negatively affects natural deer movements. I tried it and witnessed that it does affect natural deer movements. My advise is to get as far away from bait as possible, thats what I do.

I agree with Sticks. In my experience, baiting wrecks deer hunting and deer hunters... JMO

I hope this thread doesn't become a bait vs. non bait ethics argument like they usually do. Down where I hunt in the southern states mainly LA and AR but sometimes TX, everyone baits mainly with corn feeders and food plots. I agree with what Izzy said. It is not as easy to kill game as one thinks especially when you hunt in high pressure areas. I use bait for almost all of my hunting, I don't think it makes me any less of a hunter than anyone else if that is what your getting at. I look at hunting like this as long as it's legal and done ethically and respectfully I am game for it.

QuoteOriginally posted by JamesV:
I have no problem with any kind of legal hunting or the use of any weapon that is legal.

x2 But I will say around my area where the deer have more beans, corn and acorns than they can eat, baits are much less effective than people may think.  Late season when snow is on the ground and it's very cold you'll get more action but the mature deer know to stay nocturnal and baits mean danger to them.

I live butted up on the Bankhead National Forest, my land is legal to hunt and I've been observing some patterns.  But if baiting is legal, that would give me a lot of help that most of you don't need.  

I'm blind in one eye, have one arm that's shorter than the other and severely damaged and I don't walk well any more.  I know how to place a shot correctly, I know how to ignore what won't be a clean kill but I don't have the strength to hike backcountry for days or drag a kill that will almost certainly outweigh me by a lot very far.  I'd be interested in drawing one near enough I could recover it myself to continue to preserve the illusion that I am still independent a little while longer.  It also doesn't hurt that I hunt to feed myself and my wife, and I don't give a rip about trophies (antlers in my house get made into things-there are no mounted antlers or taxidermied parts in the house.)  I'd probably prefer trying to drag up a fat doe than trying to trick the ten-point behind my house (who is probably the picture of breeding fitness) and keep the breeding lines strong.  We have too many deer here, too many lots of things, and I'm trying to keep one of those things from being empty plates.

My two cents.  I'd still hunt with poison like my forebears did if it were legal-but I don't care about antlers, I care about eating, I control access to my woods and who hunts it, and I can't eat the whole woods worth of deer in a season.  I might understand the ramifications and proper usage, but I can't expect everyone to, and so I agree with it being illegal for that fact.  

I'm not trying to step on toes, I'm a crippled hunter who will not quit for the love of the hunt.  I refuse to stoop to computer aided guns and such, my wishes are for a fast, humane kill and not to blow my failing heart out getting it home.  Too many seasons I let them go because no good shot presented itself (and I had very little time to hunt many years, as well.)  Even now, as I rely more on it, I still plan to be the same way-I'll just be a little hungrier for it.

My two cents, as they say-not that it buys you anything any more.  Guess you could throw them at people or something.

I don't hunt over bait but I do put out bait throughout the year. I really start putting out a lot of mineral supplements, corn, apples and deer licks the week after bow season ends. I do this to help them get through the winter, help the does with their pregnancies and help the bucks recover from the rut. I put out more throughout the months of January to July then I do during hunting season. I believe it helps the deer a lot more to put out food during the winter and early spring as on a management level. I like to think it helps the deer herd in my area stay healthier and for me, that's what its all about, a healthier deer herd. As the season approaches we slow up putting out bait considerably. Even though we put out food, we don't have a stand within 100yrds or better to the site.

Hunting over bait is the norm where I live in Texas.  When hunting private property bait has always been close.  Real close.  However this year I have plan on personally imposing the same limits as your states laws.  

In green years deer don't pattern well to feeders.  Older bucks are wary (more familiar to stupid human tricks) around baiting areas.  I plan to hunt the trails and scrape lines I found in February.

I don't hunt over bait but they passed that same rule here in Mississippi a couple years ago and I honestly don't think it affects my hunting much at all unless there is almost no forage around or very late in the season.

QuoteOriginally posted by ALwoodsman:
This year Alabama passed a new law allowing bait but you must be 100 yards from it and not be able to see it.  The club that I recently joined has decided to allow individuals to put out bait.  There are 70 members and about 6500 acres.  Some of these guys don't really even hunt, alot of them don't hunt more than 100 yards from their 4 wheeler and not far from camp. I am wandering how this is going to affect the hunting.  I do not plan on baiting and will be getting as far away from the other hunters as possible.  Anybody else that has hunted in this type of situation, what are your thoughts?  I am not looking for answers reguarding the ethics of baiting.  I choose not to but everyone has there own opinion.  I am just looking for insight on how this will affect the hunting in a state that has never allowed baiting.

Joe...with 6500 acres and 70 members....you WILL be hunting over bait whether you like it or not.

Say goodbye to the wonderful NATURAL daytime movements of your whitetails. They will soon become mostly nocturnal, and there will be "wagon wheel" spoke -like trails leading to all of the piles.

Sorry if I sound negative, but large scale baiting sure screws up an area, IMHO.    

Hate it!

Whats the diferance between food on the ground or doe in heat ect  hanging from a tree and sitting buy a scrap ?   Im like others here as long as its legal.Shoot what you want(weapon) and use what you want.

Is that Elm Bluff by any chance?

Natural patterns? Like those around corn and soybean fields?

As said earleir, Mississipi has a similar law, basically allows hunting over bait with guns but not bows.   :banghead:  How did this nation allow itself to become so hamstrung with so many stupid laws?

I have no experience baiting deer, but it's how we hunt black bear here around Fairbanks, really the only effective way to do so because the flat, thickly vegetated country is impossible to spot & stalk, and the bears move so much, that patterning them otherwise is essentially wasting time. Where I hunt, they legalized shooting grizzlies on bait because of excess numbers. Grizzlies prove to be very difficult to take over bait because of their wariness and roaming nature, and even black bears take a lot more work than most people assume, I imagine deer are the same way.

I don't bait but have hunted with several guys who swear by it.  Around here unless you are religious about baiting a 50 lbs. Bag of corn is gone in 2 maybe 3 days tops.  I'm sure some of it's deer but mostly seems to be turkey and racoon.  Every deer caught on camera was well after dark.  Seemed like a waste of money to me.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bear Heart:
Natural patterns? Like those around corn and soybean fields?

I'm not going to debate baiting with you, but a field is different than a pile of corn.

Sad. Say goodbye to hunting as you knew it. It wont happen over night but just ask any of us who hunted Wisc back in the days when baiting was illegal. Once the corn piles hit the woods it changed everything.

God I hope it never happens here.

Don't have problem with it if that is your thing or perhaps you would otherwise be unable to hunt due to a disability or something. Like anything else I believe there is a time and a place. I do believe that it would definitely alter natural deer movement though. I personally wouldn't hunt deer over bait as I like to leave behind as little trace as possible of my ever being in the woods.

Not wild about baiting deer because I've seen over the years what it's done to northern MI whitetail hunting but on the other hand, bear hunting is far and away my absolute favorite thing to do and I have a hard time condemning a guy who's sitting over a pile of corn or apples for deer while I see nothing at all wrong with sitting over a pile of Ho Ho's and Little Debbies while waiting for a bear. JMO

I've tried to stay away from this one because I know it is controversial. But Littlebigman is right. It has changed deer hunting for the worse here in WI. I don't bait my hunting property but I know my neighbors do. I see loss of deer earlier in the season, but a few weeks before gun season opens the baits go out and deer movement dramatically changes.
I hate it!

No problem with folk hunting over bait; I hunted hogs over bait a few years ago............just not my thing. They come to you-I prefer going after them.

The Largest Problem with Baiting that I have experienced is that animals will turn completely Nocturnal.  They will move only at dark and straight to the food.  If you are happy with yearling deer and are only after meat then there you go.

When they banned baiting in Wisconsin a lot of guys who were against it at first were shocked at how many more deer they were seeing after. It forced animals to travel more to consume the same amount of food.

I have no qualms with baiting and think there is a tactic for any circumstance especially if you are hunting bears or other animals.  I personally wouldn't ever consider baiting deer around here.  

The nice thing you will find about Baiting is seeing where everyone else hunts.  I think the state will have a hard time enforcing the 100 yard rule.

Good Luck.

My main problem with baiting down here is that mostly the younger generation such as myself do not know how to go "hunt" deer anymore.  They simply find an open area and start dumping corn or rice bran every couple days and climb up the nearest tree.  In certain areas I'm sure its different but here in Mississippi I feel like you can be just as effective if you actually scout and find trails and hot acorn trees etc. but that's just my 2 cents.

I don't agree that it makes deer nocturnal at all. On my families land we leave our corn feeders out all year and keep up some kind of food plot year round. The deer will come to the corn feeders or food plots usually either in the morning or evening. This concurs to when we get most of our pictures on our game cameras from spring until early into hunting season. Once hunting season has been open a while say a month or so then our deer start to become nocturnal. Not because of the bait but because they know more people are out in the woods either hunting or scouting. Too much hunting pressure is what makes deer go nocturnal not the actual act of putting some kind of bait out.

I don't pass judgment on those who choose to bait, but it's not for me. I know all the arguments and cultural history of baiting, but I'm just not interested in it. I use the analogy of chumming trout with cheese nibbles, so I can catch one on a dry fly and bamboo rod. I wanted to hunt Africa for a few years, but I eventually wrote it off my list due to the baiting (food & water stations). I can't do it.

Again and for the record; I spend no time worrying about who hunts over bait. I'm good with not using it for my hunts.

It's hard to give your "thoughts" on something without giving your opinion which ultimately comes down to the "bait no bait argument"!

I have to be honest I don't understand the folks who do it and say it's a lot harder than you think, it's not a slam dunk, but I have to because my neighbor does or something similar.

Then there is always the crowd who states it's no different than hunting beside a 60 acre corn field or a apple tree. Well lets just say I've waited five years on one apple tree to bear fruit before I got to hunt it because of late frost, drought summers etc. No so with baiting.

For the record I live in a state that baiting is legal. My personal opinion is baiting along with ATV use has ruined hunting that I knew and love. Don't get me wrong I'm still very successful. I just spend more time preseason scouting finding "bait" sites now adays and hunt accordingly. It's actually not hard to find bait sites here as you follow the ATV tracks!

Now with all that said I have hunted over bait for bears and hogs. Killed on both hunts. I understand it would be almost impossible to hunt bears in some locations without bait. And I don't have a problem with those that do it BUT after killing a few bears or hogs over bait I just don't have the desire to do it ever again. I love hog hunting but it's all spot and stalk now adays. Come home empty handed lots of times but never feel defeated or wanting to bait them again.

I can always tell when most folks around here are "gearing" up for bow season. It means level truck loads of ear corn and apples are being hauled in for bow season! JMHO it's not hunting.

No baiting here for anything, Deer or Bear. I'm glad for that. The Bucks are pretty much nocturnal as well as the Bear. There are those peak feeding periods when you can sometimes get a jump on where they are feeding ( Bear ) or possibly catch one in a tree if your willing to hunt hard enough and deep enough. There are some good areas with high probubility if you know what to look for. You just have to be willing and able to hunt hard. Every ones hunting turf and situation varies, so I can not comment on baiting from those perspectives. Our Bear season runs consecutive with the Deer archery season, so you can hunt both, just no Baiting except for guides.

Here in Ky, baiting only works when the natural food is hard to get, let acorns start falling and bait is left to rot by deer. Hunting fields, food plots, acorn flats is hunting a food source, baiting aint much different.

I live in Alabama as well and I am not a fan of baiting. Not that it is unethical, and I certainly can't fault anyone for doing it since it is now legal, but it just diminishes the thrill of the hunt for me. I think the state legalized it partly because 80-90% of the hunters in Alabama were already doing it. Now the game wardens don't have to worry about enforcing baiting laws.

Look we all have a point at which we have to draw the line on what we enjoy or not(legally). Some  don't hunt with guns, ATV's, over bait, behind high fences, and so on. For me, baiting is over that line.

Now I do plant green fields and  occasionally hunt them. I also look for the first white oak that is dropping acorns early in the season. Some would say this is the same as "baiting". For them, that may be true, not for me.

It is all about the "hunting experience" for me.

Mark

Baiting is "Game Farming " with out the fences.
Cheers from the Westcoast of Canada.....

I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I have hunted over bait and killed deer in doing so. It is legal here in Ohio. My attitude towards it has changed over the years.

In the urban/suburban areas I hunt, it is useful in drawing deer to the small parcels I have available to hunt where there is no natural food source but plenty of deer in the surrounding national park.

Where I hunt in southern Ohio, where there are hundreds of acres of huntable National Forest, I would never consider it. Shooting deer over a pile of corn is not the same as taking one moving naturally through the forest. Period. I do it to fill the freezer and accept that. I do not consider it the same as taking a deer down south.

In the end, it is a matter of degree and everyone makes their own choice as to what they can live with. Hunting a natural food source like acorns from a tree stand or ground blind is considered acceptable. Hunting a planted food plot from a tree stand is also ok but borders baiting as the food source is created. Hunting a bait pile from a tree stand is another degree and to some, less acceptable, although it is not that much different from the first two scenarios.

Where the question really comes in is when you take it a little further. If you hunted a bait pile from a heated outbuilding/shed, is it the same as hunting a bait pile from a tree stand? What if you hunt a bait pile from the back deck of your house? Or through the open patio door of your kitchen?

All of the scenarios except the first involve shooting deer over a created food source. Not too many folks would ever think that the last two scenarios would be thought of as ethical hunting. Or any kind of hunting really. But all of them involve shooting deer from a concealed location over a created food source.

I have not found that baiting makes the deer around here go nocturnal. Quite the contrary. Here, they still move early morning and late evening. They will run in to the sound of an electric feeder.

In the end, I would rather shoot a deer, any legal deer, in the woods moving naturally without using bait than shoot a trophy buck over a pile of corn.

Just my opinion.

i was sad when i heard they passed it even though i knew it was coming.certain folks on the board have been pushing it for years and they certainly didn't research it. all about the dollar.
i am curious as to how we are going to handle it in the club i belong to i haven't heard yet.
at a nwtf banquet earlier this year there were some game wardens there that said they will write more tickets this season than ever with the laws as they are.
but be all as it is i ain't gonna stop hunting guesss i will just have to adapt!

QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:
I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I agree with joe.  We own 240 acres of northern wisconsin big woods and for the first two years of hunting it, we didn't bait, but our neighbors did, (one actually got pinched for over baiting).  Trail cam pics showed some deer, but nothing to write home about.  Last year we agreed to start baiting to (cringe) "pull some deer over".  Yep, we saw a lot more deer, but the only mature buck I had close was when I was set up away from any bait.  
My bottom line... Baiting for white tails is detrimental to whitetail hunting.  Period.  It allows the deer the luxury of being nocturnal because they can satisfy caloric needs quickly.  It limits movement because they don't need to travel as far to find food.  It allows deer to more easily pattern the hunters because of the required trips to bait sites and subsequent limited stands.  It creates conflict amongst hunters who feel a sense of ownership over their bait site even when on public land.  It facilitates the spread of diseases such as CWD.
What are the benefits?  I can see its use concerning the very young, elderly, or disabled.
Wisconsin guys, remember the fall of 2002?  I believe that was the one season in recent times when baiting was temporarily banned.  I saw more deer and mature bucks on the hoof during daylight hours that fall than any year since.  
Getting back to your OP.  you have my sympathy that your state now allows baiting deer.  Your hunting experience will change and not for the better.
My sentiments are my own and I mean no offense to those who feel differently, but I truly believe that banning baiting for deer would greatly benefit all who hunt for the reasons stated above.

QuoteOriginally posted by NBK:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:
I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I agree with joe.  We own 240 acres of northern wisconsin big woods and for the first two years of hunting it, we didn't bait, but our neighbors did, (one actually got pinched for over baiting).  Trail cam pics showed some deer, but nothing to write home about.  Last year we agreed to start baiting to (cringe) "pull some deer over".  Yep, we saw a lot more deer, but the only mature buck I had close was when I was set up away from any bait.  
My bottom line... Baiting for white tails is detrimental to whitetail hunting.  Period.  It allows the deer the luxury of being nocturnal because they can satisfy caloric needs quickly.  It limits movement because they don't need to travel as far to find food.  It allows deer to more easily pattern the hunters because of the required trips to bait sites and subsequent limited stands.  It creates conflict amongst hunters who feel a sense of ownership over their bait site even when on public land.  It facilitates the spread of diseases such as CWD.
What are the benefits?  I can see its use concerning the very young, elderly, or disabled.
Wisconsin guys, remember the fall of 2002?  I believe that was the one season in recent times when baiting was temporarily banned.  I saw more deer and mature bucks on the hoof during daylight hours that fall than any year since.  
Getting back to your OP.  you have my sympathy that your state now allows baiting deer.  Your hunting experience will change and not for the better.
My sentiments are my own and I mean no offense to those who feel differently, but I truly believe that banning baiting for deer would greatly benefit all who hunt for the reasons stated above. [/b]

I agree with you to a point. As I said in my earlier post I hunt over bait probably 90% of the time. Where I hunt in southern Arkansas everyone and I mean everyone puts out feeders and food plots. Do I think outlawing baiting would be beneficial to hunting whitetails nation wide absolutely! The problem is there are too many people who would never let that become a reality, and there is too much money in the baiting industry. I use bait on my families land because if I didn't believe me 95% of our deer would move to someone else's land and me nor anyone else in my family would ever kill a deer on our land. As I also stated earlier I do not think that baiting causes deer to become nocturnal (at least in my area). I truly believe deer go nocturnal because of being over pressured in areas. My family and I have seen it many times when we are hunting and on our game cameras. Generally after Arkansas rifle season starts around the beginning of November our deer go nocturnal because that is when more hunters show up in our area. There used to not be near as many bowhunters even when I started bowhunting 8 years ago so the deer moved around during the early archery season a lot more. However it seems every year we get more and more bowhunters (not saying that's a bad thing    ;)   )and our deer are going nocturnal earlier and earlier in the season as more people are hunting putting more pressure on the deer.

I dont have much to add because most of what i believe has already been said. At our 700 acre deer camp i have witnessed many of the things said above. I have hunted and killed over bait and it is effective to an extent. I dont hunt  there very much anymore but when i do i am either in a staging area or in a big draw between 2 food plots and never hunt over corn or a food plot. Bait has changed the pattern there. I have no problem with people baiting where it is legal and dont pass judgement on anyone who does. Its funny because i have about 1600 acres of private land to hunt and these days i choose to hunt public land. There is plenty of bait there you just have to find the trees and wait for it to fall.

As with everything, bait is not 100% good or bad in my eyes and experience. Ive hunted deer over bait and killed but longed to get away from feeders because of their skittishness and I did admittedly get the feeling I was "Zoo" hunting. I enjoyed those hunts but not like I do enjoy a NY hunt on my friends or families properties or state land where I dont hunt bait.

        Ive hunted bear over bait and killed but did not treasure those bears like the one I killed at 5 yards while still hunting. Same with hogs. Hunted them at times over bait and did well while in other places I couldnt get them on bait during daylight hours. My favorite hog was killed while stalking. Stalked to under 10 yards on him.

        Will I ever hunt bait again? Hell yes. Do I need it? Hell no. I wish I could use it in the Adirondacks at times. In southern NY it would be of no use to me.

        For me the least important factor regarding bait  is what other people think about me hunting bait or if Im following a "Traditional" code by using it. These days as an American I find myself having to fight harder and harder to exercise free will and will not allow that to creep into my passion for hunting. If you do use it you'll find its not 100% and can be more trouble and more money than its worth but at least you will know for yourself and not rely on experience of others who may never have hunted under your circumstances. Good luck in your quest for answers.

QuoteOriginally posted by NBK:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:
I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I agree with joe.  We own 240 acres of northern wisconsin big woods and for the first two years of hunting it, we didn't bait, but our neighbors did, (one actually got pinched for over baiting).  Trail cam pics showed some deer, but nothing to write home about.  Last year we agreed to start baiting to (cringe) "pull some deer over".  Yep, we saw a lot more deer, but the only mature buck I had close was when I was set up away from any bait.  
My bottom line... Baiting for white tails is detrimental to whitetail hunting.  Period.  It allows the deer the luxury of being nocturnal because they can satisfy caloric needs quickly.  It limits movement because they don't need to travel as far to find food.  It allows deer to more easily pattern the hunters because of the required trips to bait sites and subsequent limited stands.  It creates conflict amongst hunters who feel a sense of ownership over their bait site even when on public land.  It facilitates the spread of diseases such as CWD.
What are the benefits?  I can see its use concerning the very young, elderly, or disabled.
Wisconsin guys, remember the fall of 2002?  I believe that was the one season in recent times when baiting was temporarily banned.  I saw more deer and mature bucks on the hoof during daylight hours that fall than any year since.  
Getting back to your OP.  you have my sympathy that your state now allows baiting deer.  Your hunting experience will change and not for the better.
My sentiments are my own and I mean no offense to those who feel differently, but I truly believe that banning baiting for deer would greatly benefit all who hunt for the reasons stated above. [/b]

It sounds like us guys from Wisconsin who grew up with baiting, seen it banned and brought back are pretty much on the same page.  

It just plain ruins "hunting" and makes for shooting.  You no longer have to find natural funnels or pick the right trails.  The way I started hunting was to go in the woods, pick a nice place "for me"  and dump bait.  deer would show up religiously at sun up and just before dark.  I stopped long before the ban but, after the ban I saw 20X more deer and at all hours of the day, not just minutes before or after legal shooting.  

I am friends with a retired DNR official who was working at the time and said hundreds of people opposed to the Ban were  impressed by how many deer they saw not baiting.

I can only base this on MY experience, I understand some people in some other state may have experienced something different. Maybe their deer numbers were different or food was different.  

I am not getting into the whole food plot and corn field is the same thing argument.  I disagree.  a cornfield is not a condensed little pile of food with sticks around it to guarantee a broadside shot and block the deers head.

Personally, I think everyone would be better off without it. Better hunting and less disease spread.

I choose not to bait because we hunt crop fields and mast trees. We all know when the acorns are dropping the deer will be there. I know it is legal to bait on private land in Ohio, but my land is off limits to any baiting.

We are in the day that many people want instant gratification.  Some people brag that they went to their deer stand and within minutes deer were coming back into the feeder, they shot a deer and were back home within an hour.  Baiting for deer is a multimillion dollar business.  If baiting is new to your area you may want to consider opening a bait/feed supply store.

An issue that I see in Minnesota where it is illegal is

The neighboring property owner has baited and the deer pretty much nocturnal come in right at dark to feed and then cross the road

   :smileystooges:

X2 on NbK and Charlie's take it has ruined the 80 acres next to this poachers pile that I lease

I find it ironic one elects to challenge them self by using a traditional bow over a compound and crossbow then removes the challenge and skill of HUNTING buy using bait. IMHO baiting is not good for the animals or the skill of hunting. While I do not like or use bait and do not want it anywhere near where I hunt, if others want to use it does not bother me.

I should add....from an ethical and moral standpoint, if it is legal I couldn't care less about baiting. I don't see it as that big of an ethical issue.

My comments are based on my experience, having baited in the past. I feel that it ruins natural movement.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin Dill:
I don't pass judgment on those who choose to bait, but it's not for me. I know all the arguments and cultural history of baiting, but I'm just not interested in it. I use the analogy of chumming trout with cheese nibbles, so I can catch one on a dry fly and bamboo rod. I wanted to hunt Africa for a few years, but I eventually wrote it off my list due to the baiting (food & water stations). I can't do it.

Again and for the record; I spend no time worrying about who hunts over bait. I'm good with not using it for my hunts.

Good post,  :thumbsup:   I feel the same about baiting.

I did go on a baited bear hunt years ago and shot a bear. I'd rate it as one of the lamest things I've ever done.A bunch of my friends went back the next year,but I passed on it.I have no problem with other people doing it,it's just not for me.A few of my friends love it and go every year,that's great,they really enjoy it.I even gave away the rug I had made. Used to look at at and not be very proud. I wouldn't hunt deer over feeders either,but would have no problem hunting baited hogs as I consider them more of a problem than a game animal.
I ran beagles and coonhounds since I was a kid.I'd love to go out west and run lions with hounds,but I really wouldn't want to shoot one though unless the dogs were mine.Weird,I know,but just how I feel.All of us on here bowhunt because we enjoy it. The way I look at it is,if it's legal and it makes you happy,have at it.

I've never hunted it but I would think that if it's not your feeder and your corn I wouldnt be nowhere near it just because you know how people are. That being said since I'm from Alabama I just have to rant a little. For those of you not from here we have a conservation advisory board.a board comprised of business men .not saying they are bad people or anything but one owns moultrie feeders and another owns the dream ranch/canned hunt .so you see where this is going.they won't enforce the hundred yard rule anyway so do what you want.I hunt public land and the last gun hunt I went on I found home made jug feeders, but so what when I was leaving on my way out I passed a clear cut with six or so trucks and they were just hunting from the backs of their trucks they don't have the resources to patrol on a regular basis and don't get me started on the atvs which aren't supposed to get off the marked roads. Sorry to ramble but I had to vent not because I have a problem with baiting cause I don't it just seems like our whole situation in Alana as a mess right now.

QuoteOriginally posted by Cmane07:
My main problem with baiting down here is that mostly the younger generation such as myself do not know how to go "hunt" deer anymore.  They simply find an open area and start dumping corn or rice bran every couple days and climb up the nearest tree.  In certain areas I'm sure its different but here in Mississippi I feel like you can be just as effective if you actually scout and find trails and hot acorn trees etc. but that's just my 2 cents.

Agreed

What ever happened to WOODSMANSHIP!!!  I hate bait,  if leagle    :smileystooges:     or just wanting   instant gratification, it's not what I call HUNTING. If you bait why not just get/use  a crossbow(bowgun) while your at it? Go feed a cow for weeks and then shoot it as it comes to eat, what's     :deadhorse:    the challege/difference?

Maybe part of the problem is the way baiting tends to become THE way to get the shot. People are baiting on 3 sides of you...what will you do? I have seen baiting become big business and it involves big money in the greater scheme.

A guy walks in to his stand and drops a couple ripe pippins at 15 yards...just in case.

Another guy is hauling hundreds of pounds of mixed grain behind his atv or tractor, and he's refilling multiple bait stations with electronically timed feeders.

Should we bait turkeys if it doesn't harm the population?

When antelope are in parched dry country, is it fair to 1) create....and 2) sit on the only water source for 5 miles in any direction?

Lots of considerations.

We used feeders in SC to keep hogs and deer on the property but didn't hunt over them unless someone was handicapped.

I can tell you that in the South deer just plain have too much to eat 11 months a year- corn is dessert to them and hogs except when there's nothing else around

Baiting may have become leagle in Alabama just this year but it has been going on widespred for a good while.In my area a lot of the clubs are mostly well to do people,doctors, lawyers and the like.The wardens pretty much leave those clubs alone even though it is common knolage that they have been baiting heavily for years.And i dont mean a sack or two dumped out, they bring it in litterally by the truck loads.My father in laws farm where we live and hunt is a little over 100 acres surrounded by one of these clubs.Used to be pretty good hunting on the farm but about the last 3 years you will see almost no deer durring the daylight.Plenty of sign and see them all over if you walk out with a flashlight but none durring the day.Once people start sturring getting ready for deer season,putting up stands and such,the deer have no reason to head out and feed in the evenings.They know where the feeder are and it is just way more safe for them to wait till dark,deer are smart like that.From what i have heard the clubs around us have been shooting way less deer too. Baiting can help your hunting if its done small scale and well thought out, but not if the surrounding land is being heavilly baited.One thing too here in bama that makes it worse,our deer rut is very late, pretty much dont start until the end of the season in south bama so you cant figure much on the rut to give the deer to get up and roam around durring shooting hours either.

I am a fan of food scents for the late season. Apple seems to work the best when the snow flies.

 I do not like piles of rotting produce, plus I hunt public land and do not want to give away where I'm hunting.   ;)  
 Baiting requires disturbing an area constantly, which tips deer off. Unless you wear rubber gloves, your hand oils gets on the bait too.

  There are plenty of groceries in the woods. If you know what to look for and when, baiting isn't necessary.

QuoteOriginally posted by ALwoodsman:
This year Alabama passed a new law allowing bait but you must be 100 yards from it and not be able to see it.  

There's no winning the baiting argument so I won't offer any opinion on it.

However, if I were an Alabama resident, I would have a real problem if the law is actually written as ALwoodsman said.  You must be 100 yards from it and not be able to see it.  What if you're hunting 100 yards from your bait and not able to see it (or not hunting with bait at all) but somebody else has their bait pile closer to your stand and you didn't see it either?  Good luck defending yourself by saying that wasn't your bait pile.  That's a dumb law.  Either allow it or not.

Here in Ga. its been legal to bait on private land for a couple of years now. I put some out and put a a camera on it and almost every picture was after dark of deer. I hunt trails and acorns in the swamp and kill stuff during the day.Not against bait but I seem to do better without it.RC

Bait just does not do it for me-not my style at all. I hunt hogs regularly but never over bait. Tried it a few years ago-not how I like to get it done. But I won't judge you if that's your bag at least I'll try not to.   :thumbsup:

In my opinion, if your hunting by a white oak your hunting over bait! If it's legal, I'm all for it!

I feel it is un sportsmanlike to hunt white tail over bait piles.

This is an interesting thread to me because I've seen the effects for a good while now. I've lived and hunted in Alabama for many years, and I know for a fact that one club I was in for 10 years saw a dramatic lessening in the number of deer seen over time. The reason ? The clubs on every side were dumping a boatload of corn, and we were not at all. It most definitely pulled deer off our land and on to theirs. This year, I am in a club just barely over the state line into Florida, where hunting over feeders is legal. I will be very interested to see how it works out. We have designated "areas" on our place that we pick, and no one else can hunt. I scouted out places for stands, basing them on visible travel routes and terrain, but I am genuinely excited about seeing how adding a feeder to those spots will work. I am planning on hunting a lot from the ground in homemade blinds, and I wonder how a bit of corn nearby will help with that. My plan is to be somewhat sparse with it, to see if it pulls them near. One thing is for certain that a lot of people have said. AL hunters have been baiting the heck out of deer for years anyway, so  the change was probably inevitable.

I've hunted a private hog outfit here that baits.  They hunt it one weekend a month.  Bait definitely brings them in, but after one evening and one morning of hunting, the hogs have figured it out and you don't see many.  Like others have said, it seems to keep game on the property, but it won't necessarily fill your freezer.  Pressure is pressure with or without bait.

I have hesitant thoughts about hunting deer over bait. I recognize that it is almost impossible to successfully hunt certain animals without bait but am still not crazy about the idea. However, if it is legal, I certainly will not criticize any hunter who uses bait.  I know it definitely affects the chances of success if the surrounding properties use bait and I don't.

I hunted with a baited situation once, in another state, I felt like I was bullhead fishing. In Iowa, food, the blocks, the powders like Deercain, all of it is considered baiting and is illegal by our local wardens.  I hope it stays that way.

QuoteOriginally posted by JamesV:
I have no problem with any kind of legal hunting or the use of any weapon that is legal.

x2

Whatever my feelings on baiting, looking at Alabama's new regs, I am left scratching my head. WTF?

Seems like I can keep people off by laying bait. So can folks from PETA.
Killdeer

Yea, cut down all the oak, hickory, persimmon, apple trees and lets make more toilet paper, oh dont forget them corn, alfalfa, and soy fields, and I almost forgot, that doe piss....yaw hold on a bit, I need to check my camera, at my 55 gallon drum feeder.

I think its a damn sad day for the state of Alabama.  I didn't realize that this had been passed.

I own a 143 acre farm in Pickens county that I lease to a local hunting club.  I don't think I would allow anyone to bait on my land.

I'm kind of in shock, although I should'nt be.  In the past few years I heard that someone named Moultie was on the State Wildlife Board.  Moultrie is a manufacturer of baiting equipment.

I can't believe that its finally come to this...

We have had feeders on my deer lease for three years. The property is adjacent to crop fields.
Until the corn is gone from the fields the deer all but ignore the feeders(turkeys are all over it, though, but it's illegal to hunt them at the feeders).
After harvest, we see more activity at the feeders but they are on high alert when they are there.
We've had better luck hunting trails going to and from the feeders. At least on our place, it doesn't affect deer movement as much as you'd imagine.

I put a game camera on a feeder and one on a primary scrape. We got far more daytime pics on the scrape than at the feeder. Lots of night time pics of deer at the feeder,though.
In general, those that are opposed to hunting over bait have never done it(or have for a very short time). It's definitely not like shooting fish in a barrel.

this thread seems to be going towards the deer direction but what are your thoughts on Bear

I used to be against it 100%  Then I started hunting other areas and in different cultures.  Get this.  The very first time I hunted in Africa I told the P.H. that I did not want to hunt anywhere near bait.  For some reason, the waterhole did not bother me, but bait was out.  The P.H. was offended! Later on during that trip I was talking about calling whitetails with grunt calls, rattling antlers, etc., around the campfire and 3 P.H.s got this look on their face and everything went kinda quiet.  I eventually pulled one aside and asked what I said that offended everyone and he told me that they consider calling animals to be unethical! Baiting was cool, but not calling!  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  Anyway, these days I'm not against baiting at all, although I'm glad it is not legal in Illinois.  And I gotta admit, even though I have never hunted bears, the whole baiting process for bears sounds very exciting to me.

Just out of curiosity, Jon, were you able to find out why they considered calling to be unethical?  I wonder how they would feel about calling ducks?

My personal opinion is, I dont see any difference whether you plant something to draw the deer [which is legal in Alabama] or put out corn. Either way it's something that is not there naturally. Because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean that it's unethical. Because something is legal doesn't necessarily mean it's ethical. Last year if I hunted with corn 100 yards from my stand I was illegal, this year I wouldn't be.
Game & Fish would be better off concentrating on the essentials of game management..IMO

McDave, they thought it was an unfair advantage.  Thought calling game made it too easy!

With all of these comments about the effects of baiting on the deer herd, I can't believe someone hasn't brought up CWD. The use of bait, especially in condensed areas will greatly increase the chance of saliva transmission. That is why WI has banned baiting in the CWZ zone, now if we could only get it banned in the rest of the state.

QuoteOriginally posted by jonsimoneau:
I used to be against it 100%  Then I started hunting other areas and in different cultures.  Get this.  The very first time I hunted in Africa I told the P.H. that I did not want to hunt anywhere near bait.  For some reason, the waterhole did not bother me, but bait was out.  The P.H. was offended! Later on during that trip I was talking about calling whitetails with grunt calls, rattling antlers, etc., around the campfire and 3 P.H.s got this look on their face and everything went kinda quiet.  I eventually pulled one aside and asked what I said that offended everyone and he told me that they consider calling animals to be unethical! Baiting was cool, but not calling!  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  Anyway, these days I'm not against baiting at all, although I'm glad it is not legal in Illinois.  And I gotta admit, even though I have never hunted bears, the whole baiting process for bears sounds very exciting to me.

Thats pretty darned interesting. Never heard that.

TGBow....

EXACTLY!  I have overheard hunters say "I would never hunt over bait" then go out and sit on a pinch point over a cornfield or food plot.  Then on top of that say "well it's not like we know when the feeder goes off"....Really?  How about the first few hours of daylight and the last few before sunset.  I've hunted all over the country and world and trying to kill a deer near a feeder with Trad equipment is about as tough as it gets.  He/she is wired to the max and any mistake you make will send them running.  Point being, hunt ethically, hunt often and support your brothers of the bow that do the same.

"Point being, hunt ethically, hunt often and support your brothers of the bow that do the same."

I sure can't argue with that, but discussing some of the things that challenge our ethical values is what makes us better than the slobs. "The Big Tent Theory" of excusing one anothers behavior because we are all "bowhunters" is a dangerous, slippery slope.

QuoteOriginally posted by jonsimoneau:
[QB] I used to be against it 100%  Then I started hunting other areas and in different cultures.  Get this.  The very first time I hunted in Africa I told the P.H. that I did not want to hunt anywhere near bait.  For some reason, the waterhole did not bother me, but bait was out.  The P.H. was offended! Later on during that trip I was talking about calling whitetails with grunt calls, rattling antlers, etc., around the campfire and 3 P.H.s got this look on their face and everything went kinda quiet.  I eventually pulled one aside and asked what I said that offended everyone and he told me that they consider calling animals to be unethical! Baiting was cool, but not calling!  

I find this to be very interesting.  If one thinks about it there are certain necessities for almost all living things: food, shelter, sex, water.  Hunters have used waterholes, bait, sex hormones/juices, mating calls, scents etc. and yet to the best of my knowledge it is illegal and immoral to hunt things in their nests, shelters.

I'm definitely not too "good" to hunt near a bait pile. I don't do it very often, but I occasionally do. But, at the same time, I wish it were made illegal in my state of KY. I just don't want my state to end up like some other states where the land with the biggest(and most expensive) bait pile gets the most, if not the only, deer in the whole area.

QuoteOriginally posted by Joshua Polland:
With all of these comments about the effects of baiting on the deer herd, I can't believe someone hasn't brought up CWD. The use of bait, especially in condensed areas will greatly increase the chance of saliva transmission. That is why WI has banned baiting in the CWZ zone, now if we could only get it banned in the rest of the state.

YEP this is my problem with it does anyone want that disease prevalent in their state?

Baiting despite the common opinion is not the easy way out. You still have to scout and figure out WHERE the deer/hogs/bear want to be.

Having spent a ton of time over bait in the lowcountry of SC the biggest advantage to me is this. It allows the hunter to judge deer better. They stick around longer usually and you can truly view a deer. I was able to shoot mature does more often because I could see them with other deer.

Also I never noticed a difference in clubs where people didn't bait vs baited clubs. Most people cannot spend the money it really takes to make a difference in it.

Sit back and enjoy it!

Thanks for all of the comments.  My own property that I have hunted on for years was affected by people baiting all around it.  I have never hunted in a club before but was interested in it due to the fact that it was alot of property and I could get into some fairly remote areas.  It is also closer to the house than most of the public land around here.  I almost decided not to join when I heard how they were going to handle the baiting issue but thought I would give it a try.

In my opinion it would be better to have centralized feeding areas for the whole club to help keep the deer on the property.  One of the problems that I see with everyone baiting individually is that if someone hunts an area that someone has baited and they are less than 100 yards from it that that makes them illegal.  Also, like others have said and from what I have seen on my property it changes the deers natural patterns.  Oh well, I guess we will see.

It's hard to say anything good about CWD, but at least it has lead to eliminating baiting in the southern part of our state.  Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather be without the disease in our herd.      

One thing that nobody has responded to or addressed is how baiting impacts neighbors who choose not to bait.  Is it fair to those who prefer not to use that method due to their own personal ethics or preferences?  Or, as NBK stated on page 3, should we be forced to bait simply to keep up with the neighbors and give ourselves a chance?  There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that baiting on neighboring properties affects deer movement and dramatically decreases their usage of my land.

The other major issue in areas with large amounts of public land is that as has been mentioned before, it creates a competitive atmosphere and has guys protecting "their spots"  and claiming public land as their own.  The northern part of our state in particular has seen many conflicts and it has created real problems for many hunters.  

As I mentioned before, I don't have a problem with other people using what methods they prefer as long as it is legal.  But when it impacts my own hunting and begins to force me to do something that I don't want to do, it becomes a problem.

Or are you simply saying "That's tough, but I don't care how what I do affects someone else?"

Didnt read all the posts but the more urbanized out county becomes, the tighter the good "traditional" Bowhunting grounds become, and the tougher it gets to hunt like the romantics write about.  Here in Oklahoma where I love it's all farms and the only trees/ cover are around rivers/creeks.  On the small lease I have the deer have no reason o be there except for walking from their bedding areas to the south and the wheat/alfalfa fields to the north.  I have a huge white acorn tree that I have a stand in that dad killed a button buck out of last season with his longbow but that's 1 tree on 240 acres (less than 100 of which is huntable.  What bait allows me to do is establish a reliable deer pattern, keep them in the area and keep the does around during the rut.  I used bait on another area I used to hunt that was literally less than 2 acres.  It pulled deer off of the Indian land it bordered.  That being said I havnt killed a deer since 2008 and I've never killed a deer within site of bait.  Make all the conclusions you want about that but bait ain't the end all be all.  It gives me and my family opportunities to see and hunt deer we probably wouldn't be able to without it.  Not everyone has 100,000 acres of unfenced Forrest at their fingertips.   I'd personally rather be able to pattern deer I  an undisturbed "natural" habitat  but for most of America that isn't a possibility.  If I just hated deer and wanted to kill some I'd sit on the edge of a 100 acre wheat field with a .243 and pick one out.

QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:

One thing that nobody has responded to or addressed is how baiting impacts neighbors who choose not to bait.  Is it fair to those who prefer not to use that method due to their own personal ethics or preferences?  Or, as NBK stated on page 3, should we be forced to bait simply to keep up with the neighbors and give ourselves a chance?  There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that baiting on neighboring properties affects deer movement and dramatically decreases their usage of my land.

I'll only speak from personal experience here.  When baiting really became popular in Northern MI, we had a neighbor that put out TONS of bait - had a front end loader that he would fill up and dump.  The first year, we saw a lot fewer deer - most of them congregated to his property to take advantage of the food supply.  We still took a fair number of deer, as one of the main bedding areas was still on our place.  Year two, we saw more deer back on our side, as the deer started to catch on to what was up, and when he put out tons of bait, the deer simply waited until dark to head to the buffet - with plenty of bait, there was no competition, and all had plenty to eat.  By year three/four, all was pretty much back to normal, with the exception that when deer saw fresh bait (we started putting out small amounts to try to direct them in certain areas), they would freak out...then start looking for danger...and then started looking up.  It was fascinating to watch the old does start scanning the trees as soon as they saw it.

Now, in a few spots, we put out a little bit of bait, but mostly just hunt the well known travel corridors.  We have a pretty good sized herd, so there's as long as you're patient, you'll get your chance.

I guess the short answer is, that yes, in the short term, we saw it change everything drastically - but slowly work it's way back to normal.  The bigger difference is the location of the crops - what is planted where by the local farmers, and how quickly it's harvested.  But that's another topic.   :)

I appoligize in advance for the long post. Below is the text from an article that I published in Bow and Arrow Hunting magazine in 2010. It seems very relevant to this discussion.

It's long...if you're not interested...please just skip over it. No harm no foul.

Ron

THE GREAT BAIT DEBATE

Hunters are usually a pretty supportive bunch, but baiting is one of those divisive topics that will clear the proverbial "big tent" quicker than the after effects of your Uncle Frank's venison chili! Attitudes about hunting over bait run the gamut from "it's never acceptable" to "why would you hunt any other way." As with most controversial subjects, arguments about baiting do not lend themselves to black and white thinking. It's often a matter of perspective. Try this little exercise. At the same time, soak one hand in a bowl of ice water and the other in a bowl of very hot water. Now, simultaneously move your hands to a single bowl of water at room temperature. To one hand the new water feels warm to the other it feels cold. Your perception is a matter of your experiences and where you come from.

I've been on hunts in Florida and Texas where the sound of corn being whorled from an automatic feeder would bring hogs from the brush like fleas from a dead woodchuck's back. Was this fair-chase hunting? I think so, but it certainly wasn't very satisfying. This type of "Pavlov's Dog" habituation to bait, simply short-cuts the most satisfying part of the hunt, which, for me, is learning a species local ecology and behavior to foster a successful stalk or set up that perfect ambush point. Baiting; however, doesn't necessarily mean shooting fish in a barrel. I've been on baited bear hunts in Idaho and Canada that required just as much species knowledge and hunting finesse as many non-baited hunts. So, where does one draw the line? Is baiting okay for some species but not others? Is it okay for a given species in one region or habitat, but not another? Is it okay for one hunter, say a kid or older person, but not another?  Let's examine some issues and arguments about baiting. The intent isn't to reach any conclusion, but rather to stimulate thought so that each hunter can draw their own conclusions.

Species "X" vs. Species "Y"
   The acceptance of baiting is often related to the quarry being baited. For instance, some are perfectly fine with hunting feral hogs over an automatic corn feeder, but would consider the same practice for deer to be downright unethical. By the same token, many are okay with hunting bears over bait, but not other species. Why is this? I think it comes down to human perception and fundamental ecological differences among species. Like it or not, humans place differing values on each animal specie's life. In our house, a lady bug crawling across the floor gets a careful lift to the outdoors, while a spider gets squashed. In the context of hunting, more value, and hence more scrutiny of hunting practices, is placed on a white-tailed deer than a feral hog. The value placed on each animal is different depending on your personal life experiences and culture. For those steeped in African hunting, the giraffe is often a sought after species, but for many North American hunters the giraffe  is a "sacred cow" meant only for viewing, not hunting. For the most part, these value judgments have no basis in biology, but they do play a political role in shaping our views on acceptable hunting practices. A given species' ecology; however, provides a science-based framework to determine which hunting methods will strike a balance between fair chase and a reasonable expectation of success.

   Let's compare white-tailed deer and black bears. Deer are herbivores with their food more or less evenly distributed across the landscape, but concentrated enough so that savvy hunters can pattern their movements to and from bedding and feeding sties. Furthermore, deer are social animals and with adequate resources can exist at very high densities. Bears, on the other hand, are omnivores. To find an adequate amount of varied food, ranging from grasses to carrion, individual bears range over an extensive area and feed opportunistically. In many cases this means gorging on an abundant but temporary food source, such as a dead elk or ripe blueberry patch, and then moving on to find the next meal. A bear's home range commonly exceeds 5 square miles within which its movements might seem nearly random to even an experienced hunter. In some western regions, spot and stalk hunting for bears is an excellent strategy, but in most eastern areas with dense timber and little topography for long distance viewing, it's not a useful method. When spot and stalk isn't possible, the extremely low odds of a successful bear hunt are unacceptable for most bowhunters with limited time and resources. For many, the solution is baiting, which holds bears in the area and keeps them returning to the same spot for relatively short periods of time—a behavior that's common to a bear's typical "boom and bust" ecology.

Region and Habitat
   What role do region and habitat play in the acceptance of baiting? For an example let's look at two popular deer hunting states. Texas and Pennsylvania rank near the top when it comes to both numbers of deer and hunters. Yet, the deer hunting culture and methods in these two states couldn't be more different. In the Longhorn state, where there is precious little public land, the emphasis is on intensive management of massive private ranches. Within the confines of the law, this gives hunters some autonomy to do things in their own way with little impact to other hunters or neighboring landowners. Supplemental feeding, baiting to lure deer from thick brush, and even culling of genetically inferior bucks have all become common practice.

In Pennsylvania, public land is abundant and with a little effort deer can be effectively hunted without bait in even the most heavily forested areas. In the Keystone state, deer management is practiced mostly at the state level and most hunting takes place on public land or small farms. The allowance of baiting would likely ignite conflicts among hunters on public land and start baiting wars on small parcels of private property. Differences in culture, land ownership, and habitat across a species' range dictate whether baiting is an accepted and useful means of hunting in one place versus another. Having successfully hunted whitetails in 7 states over 30 years without bait, I have no desire to use bait for deer hunting. That said, I have never hunted deer in Texas and might find baiting there to be perfectly suitable. I see no reason to condemn another hunter's approach without a full understanding of his circumstances.  

The Food Source Comparison
   I often hear deer hunters who are pro-baiting defend their practice by comparing it to hunting over a concentrated natural food source, such as a food plot, apple tree, or corn field. Sorry guys, but for me this line of reasoning falls flat and simply comes off as defensive. The hunter using bait has far more control of the situation than a hunter who is focused on a natural food source. Bait can be positioned to give the hunter every advantage when it comes to wind direction, shot angle and distance, and proximity to important habitat, such as bedding areas. Furthermore, when baiting the presence and amount of food is at the discretion of the hunter. That's not so with natural food sources. When the acorns from the oak flat are gone, that's it and when the corn has been cut, you're done. I just don't think the comparison between concentrated natural food and bait is legitimate. Hunting a cornfield is like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. Hunting a corn pile is more like paint by numbers. Don't get me wrong, baiting can certainly be challenging, but it's not the same as hunting a natural food source. Hunters who are challenged to justify the use of bait should focus on their specific situation and not make comparisons to other hunting methods.

Baiting Wars and Disease
The prolonged use of excessive bait can be bad for both hunters and wildlife. Introducing new food sources, such as large bait piles, into the landscape dramatically changes wildlife movement patterns, leaving adjoining landowners wondering why all of the game has disappeared. To compensate, the game-less landowner dumps a huge pile of bait and the war is on. Before long, bickering erupts, often resulting in a loss of hunting opportunity and satisfaction. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard bear hunting outfitters talk about sabotaging another outfitter's or local hunter's bait by lacing it with raw onions, which bears detest, or by leaving "Hansel and Gretel trails" from the competitor's bait to their own.
More importantly, baiting wars can lead to negative effects on wildlife behavior and habitat, and to disease transmission, especially among deer. Prolonged and excessive baiting causes bears to become habituated to human food and eventually humans, making them potentially dangerous in areas with high human populations. For deer, excessive amounts of bait create artificially high population densities, causing over browsing and increased deer-to-deer contact. As documented by several scientific studies (for example: O'Brien et al 2002 and Palmer et al 2004), this extra contact between individuals and with feeders leads to accelerated transmission of diseases, such as bovine tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease.

Natural vs. "Non-native" Bait
   For some hunters and many (maybe most) non-hunters, baiting can be a bitter pill to swallow. One way to sweeten that pill is to use naturally occurring foods for bait. Functionally, there is little difference between a pile of apples and a drum of pastries--both serve to coax bears into range. But, there are differences in public perception and hunter satisfaction. Naturally occurring foods, such as acorns, locust pods, apples, plums, persimmons, pawpaws, and many others can be gathered and strategically placed for attracting hogs, deer, and bears. Hunting over natural bait seems, well, more natural and the process of gathering the foods and learning where to place them provides strong connections among the hunter, his quarry, and the natural world. Moving acorns or apples from one location to another to facilitate a hunting opportunity is less contrived than simply dumping a bag of corn. For hunters used to using bait, the differences might be subtle, but for non-hunters they are substantial. Imagine a hiker deep in a National Forest coming upon a pile of apples neatly covered with sticks versus a steel drum of 10-day old cheese Danishes chained to a tree! Furthermore, using natural food is likely better for wildlife health and less likely to create habituation to humans.

The Bottom Line
   It seems to me as hunters and outfitters, we need to make sure a few of the mandatory boxes are checked each time we make the decision to use bait as part of our hunt.

Fair Chase: There is no universally accepted definition of fair chase, but I think most of us recognize what is not fair chase when we see it. If you are in doubt, ask yourself this question: Would my hunting mentor (hero) be proud of what I'm doing right now? If you have any question that what you are doing is not fair chase, then make a change. It's the respectful thing to do for your quarry and yourself.

Public Perception: When using bait the door is wide open for criticism from anti-hunters and, more importantly, non-hunters who might not understand the ins and outs of baiting. When talking about baiting with non-hunters, or even other hunters, make sure to explain that although bait is being used to attract animals, paramount to any hunt is the rule of fair chase and a general respect for wildlife. Explain why bait is necessary given your quarry's specific behavior or the presence of insurmountable habitat conditions.

Aesthetics: Part of showing respect for wildlife and habitat is aesthetics. The bad image associated with baiting is sometimes related to the lack of care shown at bait sites. I've see some bear bait sites that looked worse than the town dump, with old drums, five gallon buckets, and food containers strewn around and plastic bags hanging from the trees. Bait sites should be free from litter and look as natural as possible. This is especially important on public land or if hunts are going to be filmed. Perhaps I'm an extremist, but I don't even like to see a drum or bucket at a bait site. If large drums or other containers are used, perhaps they should be painted to blend into the forest and screened with brush. The bears might not care about a tidy bait site, but I think that the public and most hunters do.  

Summary
For me, there is no simple line in the sand. I prefer non-baited hunts when it's feasible; however, I am not opposed to baiting under the right circumstances. If I'm hunting over bait it has to be a "do it yourself" hunt or with an outfitter who permits me to get involved. I disdain hunts where I'm expected to sit and wait in a blind or treestand over a bait that someone else has set. I will only hunt with outfitters who give me the flexibility to set my own blinds and stands, and fully participate in the temporal and spatial strategies of baiting.
So where does this leave us? If it's legal, then it's up to the hunter to decide the appropriate level of challenge they desire and what constitutes fair chase. I have my own lines, but I don't pretend that one size fits all for every region, every habitat, every species, or every hunter. If your baited hunt is conducted in an ethical, fair-chase manner that is satisfying to you, and you behave in a way that reflects positively on the hunting community, then there is little left to debate...or is there? What is ethical? What is fair chase? These questions are why the Great Bait Debate rages on.

Excellent article, Ron. Another point would be whether the type of baiting being done improves or degrades wildlife habitat.  For example, around Sacramento, there is a lot of duck hunting, and duck hunting clubs put a lot of time and money into improving the duck ponds, planting the kinds of weeds and grasses ducks like, etc.  Most of this effort benefits the ducks and other wildlife that use the area during the majority of the year when there is no hunting.  Same can be said for clubs that maintain and improve habitat for wild pheasants (but cannot be said about clubs that raise pheasants in pens and turn them loose in a field on the day of the hunt).  I know some ranches in No. CA that make similar efforts to improve deer habitat.  Whether this results in any net ecological benefit in areas that already have adequate natural food for deer is probably questionable, but the mountain lions probably appreciate the extra effort.

I never liked hunting over bait. In SC it is legal. The deer that did come into the bait were always on point and ready to be shot at...and usually they were does and yearlings.
 I had better success hunting trails leading to the bait, catching the unsuspecting deer as they headed for breakfast or supper.
Like many states I don't see food plots as baiting but still hunted the trails leading to them rather than the food plots themselves.

30 years ago Cory Mattson and I went to south Texas on a javelin hunt. There were several guys in camp with us and all were using corn on the sendaros. Cory and I bowed up and were determined to do it "the right way" No baiting for us.

After the 3rd day, we hadn't seen a single javy while everyone else had multiple stalks and shot opportunities. WE bought some corn, trickled it thruout our area and where seeing hogs, deer and javies just a few hours later.

You can say we gave in if you want but I really don't care. Anyone who says they are fine spending 10 days hunting without seeing a critter is FOS. You may as well just go camping.

Don't cheat yourself. Have fun and don't be afraid to try something new or different. If this issue was cut and dry, we wouldn't have a thread about it 2 or 3 times a year

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Anyone who says they are fine spending 10 days hunting without seeing a critter is FOS. You may as well just go camping.

:biglaugh:     :biglaugh:    :biglaugh:    :biglaugh:  

That's the truth if I have ever herd it!

Damn, Biggie! Laughs and wisdom. Your closer to becoming my spiritual guru after that tidbit.

And now you know the REST OF THE STORY!   Made me laugh too... thanks Biggie for keeping it real!  I don't hunt with bait here in Oregon, but I have in other places for bear, and I would for hogs and javi if I got the chance.  I bait mice also, they love peanut butter.

Biggie is my Hero...RC

I've been to south Texas a couple times, back in the mid 90's, for Havelina and Hogs.  The first trip, all three of us got a Havie, saw some Hogs, and went home happy.  We were the only ones in camp that didn't use corn. Like Biggie, we wanted to do it right.

The second trip, me and a friend walked our butts off for seven days.  No corn.  I got lucky and killed a Havie the last day.  My buddy didn't even SEE a hog or havelina.

If I were to go back today, I would drive an 18-wheeler full of corn!   :)    On a huge ranch, with thousands and thousands of acres of scrub brush, its just not worth it.

I've never been bear hunting, but I will someday.  And I have no problem hunting them over bait.  From what I know about it, you're hunting in a vast and remote area, mostly in thick brush. Trying to sneak up on one is almost useless.

But should baiting be legal in Alabama?  I say no.  I lived and hunted many years in Alabama, and own land there still.

Everybody in Alabama hunts.  People in the Midwest or northeast have no idea what hunting pressure is.  Every inch of the state is leased to hunting clubs.  And they can hunt with a rifle for 79 days.  I think (?) you can kill a buck and a doe per day. And they're all on 4wheelers.

I was in the hunting club mentioned in the original post, for one year.  Even on that much land, I was unable to find any of it that didn't have 4wheeler tracks on it!  And now those guys are gonna be spreading corn all over it, and argueing about whose spot it is!

But really, I just think that a little woodsmanship ought to be needed. Alabama has a huge deer population.  If you can't kill a deer in Alabama without using corn, you really shouldn't be in the woods.

The only reason this is an issue in Alabama, is because the hunting INDUSTRY wants to sell everyone a corn feeder.  Exactly like the crossbow controversy.  Just another way to suck some more cash from the hunters pocket.

Biggies right. This issue is NOT cut and dried.  But I think the main motive behind this, in Alabama, is to sell everyone a corn feeder.

In my state of ky, its legal, except on public land. So, other than my own farm I hunt public land. Its a shame to me that so many hunters these days think there is no other way. I conducted a poll on one of our state hunting forums, 85% baited deer, including during modern gun season. Too me that is just sad. We are raising a whole new generation of hunters that know no other way. Like many old traditions, I suppose reading sign, and actually learning to pattern the travels of wild animals and hunt them on their terms, will most likely be another lost art.

X2 Tall Paul when Dan Moultrie of Moultrie feeders is on our conservation advisory board.well I'm no genius but.....by the way I still can't figure why we have a c.a.b. When the supposedly take all info from the dcnr.

I am not a big fan of baiting for all the reasons listed in Roger Norris's and Whip's comments earlier.  Besides, hunting time is to short to spend it guarding a bait pile.

My thoughts on baiting are different based on where you hunt. I hunted Monroe County, AL  where we had some really nice oak bottoms, a main creek running through it where you could hunt a deer slide, wet weather creeks galore sporting hundreds of natural food sources and cover... to now hunting across the line in northern Florida with nothing but sandy, flat piney woods.  

I would have never tried to bait the Monroe County land bc frankly deer were so easy to pattern as it was. Between the topography and the natural food sources, you could get deer within bow range fairly easily.  Now hunting the flat, fuel cut pine trees with no cover for hundreds of yards... to successfully get a deer within bow range, frankly I dont see another option.  You need to pull them to where you have cover at least so you can get a shot. There is no patterning a deer in planted pines that have been burned or fuel cut as they literally wonder around.  Walk and stalk is no option in the south at all without extremely ideal circumstances, like rainy, windy and a patch of ground with some perfect topography.

Also timber companies own basically everything and are in the business of growing trees not leaving nature as intended, so no hardwoods are left standing after an initial cut of the pines.  And I agree with the folks who say the deer are on high alert.  That is often an understatement, as if an acorn drops when deer are coming into a feeder area, they almost jump out of their skin.  It is kind of comical really, and getting drawn on a deer is a monumental feet at times. Deer were way dumber in Monroe County.  :)

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
30 years ago Cory Mattson and I went to south Texas on a javelin hunt. There were several guys in camp with us and all were using corn on the sendaros. Cory and I bowed up and were determined to do it "the right way" No baiting for us.

After the 3rd day, we hadn't seen a single javy while everyone else had multiple stalks and shot opportunities. WE bought some corn, trickled it thruout our area and where seeing hogs, deer and javies just a few hours later.

You can say we gave in if you want but I really don't care. Anyone who says they are fine spending 10 days hunting without seeing a critter is FOS. You may as well just go camping.

Don't cheat yourself. Have fun and don't be afraid to try something new or different. If this issue was cut and dry, we wouldn't have a thread about it 2 or 3 times a year

I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same thing....I have. But it IS an example of what baiting creates...natural movement stops, and bait is the only way to see game.

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Don't cheat yourself. Have fun and don't be afraid to try something new or different. If this issue was cut and dry, we wouldn't have a thread about it 2 or 3 times a year

So true buddy    :notworthy:

I agree with Biggie, "when in Rome do as the Romans do" BUT I find that the deer tend to go nocturnal when I baited.  My trail cams told me so.

As long as it is legal, go out and have fun your way.  I will toss out a pound of sunflower seeds and corn mix just to see other critters while I wait for deer to come thru which by the way I have been choosing not to shoot.

For some reason I haven't tossed an arrow in the last two years by choice but this year I will be using a self bow, with a stone tipped arrow and my attitude may change!!!

It is not for me.

I have no idea how the hunting without bait will be impacted by nearby bait-aided hunting because as far as I know I've never been near it. I would imagine if the baiting is aggressive and more enticing than natural food supplies that game (and hunter) patterns would be changed.

I would concentrate on intercepting deer movement to and from security areas. But that's the way I hunt most of the time anyway.

I know many years ago (about 18) I was a guest in a tree stand that had a bare spot about 20 yards out. It had been a bait pile (I didn't know this until I was at the tree.)

I think a lot of our attitudes about this practice are a result of the regulations we grew up around. Baiting was illegal in 3 of the four states I lived and hunted in from 1970-1995.

Just to make sure nobody misconstrues my comments, I am not an anti baiting purist. I know exactly what Biggie it's saying, and I have hunted bait for bear and hogs and will no doubt do it again in a heartbeat.

I think it really boils down to a regional thing too. It doesn't fit well at all in my home state of Wisconsin in my opinion.  South Texas may be a different story. And bear, at least in much of their range, and hogs, are a different story than whitetails.  Just because it's inappropriate in one place doesn't mean it is all bad.  

I do still much prefer to hunt without bait whenever possible.  Even with hogs I would much rather spot and stalk if terrain and cover allow. And a spot and stalk black near hunt is high on my to do list.

QuoteOriginally posted by Stephengiles:
 when Dan Moultrie of Moultrie feeders is on our conservation advisory board.well I'm no genius but.....

Yep, these are the people pushing to make baiting legal in Alabama: the manufacturers of corn feeders!  They've convinced people that this is another vital piece of equipment that they have to have!

Im not for or against
I think there are pros and cons

But do what ever you want If its legal , who am I to judge?

Baiting can be alot of extra work and often the results are not what was expected. I grew up learning how to identify what animals preferred to eat and when, how to distinguish between good sign and old sign, so to me that is the experience young hunters are missing if they give up and resort to bait right away. Have I ever hunted with bait? Yes. If you are travelling to a destination for hunting and bait is allowed and you have limited time to actually hunt, bait will even the odds that you will be successful. In my home state I rarely use it even though it is legal on private property.

If game and land were plentiful enough, I doubt any of  us would use bait.  But, that's not the world we live in.

I know corn works, for big bucks in the daytime also. But, just like acorns or anything other food source they will turn nocturnal just as soon as they know you might be there waiting on them.

Good part is you are in control of when and where you want the bait.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hoyt:
I know corn works, for big bucks in the daytime also. But, just like acorns or anything other food source they will turn nocturnal just as soon as they know you might be there waiting on them.

Good part is you are in control of when and where you want the bait.

I live in Maryland where baiting is legal for deer. I hunt very urban areas most of the time and  I hunt over bait occasionally when it can be done effectively.  i do not use feeders and do not hunt directly over the corn or feed.  You can really screw up an area and push most feeding during night hours if you are not careful.  Hunting with bait can be a lot of fun when trying to tag a mature buck.  They are very wary for the most part and love to circle the area before they come in.  It's all a challenge and has its place where legal.

Double post

QuoteOriginally posted by UrbanDeerSlayer:
We are not allowed to bait in PA. As a mostly urban hunter, hunting in small patches of woods among housing developments, baiting would make my hunting more productive.  The deer tend to stay on ridges close to houses where I can not legally hunt them (must be 50 yds from occupied dwellings).  As the deer population is quite high and often destructive to personal property, not to mention the dozens that get hit with vehicles in my vicinity alone, it would make sense to bait them into the areas where they can be hunted in order to thin the herd. Everybody complains about the deer but they are difficult to hunt among housing and commercial developments, baiting would be more efficient.

All I know is if they ever start a Biggie season I will buy a jar of mayo and a biggie sweet tea from wendys and Biggie will be history.

As far as I'm concerned baiting for deer is canned hunting and isn't really hunting is it?   It's slaughtering an animal that's coming in for a free meal, if anyone wants to do it go for it but I never will.  Now if its hogs I might be convinced otherwise and I'm not against baiting for bears.

I don`t understand why you are not against baiting bears but deer over bait is a "canned" hunt.Please clue me in.RC

For the record I mostly hunt swamp deer on funnels and soft and hard mast. They are 100% wild and you get away with zero mistakes. I am in a lease now that allows baiting and most members do bait. I will put out some corn and if a deer comes in broadside in range I`m gonna gaff it. With a state that has a 4 month season I promise there is nothing canned about the deer I hunt. You have never seen the terrain in the South Ga Pine flats and still judge this as easy hunting bait or not. Visibility is about 10 yards.RC

I agree RC.  Ok for one animal but not the other. And here in Michigan they use dogs to tree the bear and then shoot it out of a tree. Now there is sport hunting at its best but that's a topic for another day!!

Do whatever is legal and have fun.

Biggie, for President.

Hunting a crop field is entirely different than an isolated pile of corn! A thousand different places the deer can enter and exit. The one pile of bait in that one spot ... no thanks! I picked up the stickbow for the added challenge and baiting does not qualify. IMHO.

Yeah tradstyk, it is different, it's easier to hunt a natural trail into the corn field than it is to get a shot on a high alert deer near a feeder or "corn pile" as you call it. Hard to find a corn field in FL these days, even harder to get permission to hunt one. These days you hunt where you can when you can as it was stated earlier that access is difficult and sometimes not ideal for hunting like folks did 50-100 yrs ago.

Your ethics are your ethics, and mine are mine.  Not gonna go there.

There are some real downsides to bait.  Bait tends to concentrate animals and make them more likely to spread communicable disease.  If it is widespread enough and common enough, you can also end up with an unhealthy population of animals and boom\\bust population cycles.

There are also places and species that just can't be effectively hunted without bait.  Hogs are great candidates for bait just because of the number of them that need to be taken to keep their population in check. Bears would be another just because of their enormous range.  

I'm a lot more worried about high-fencing and automated shoot setups than I am about baiting in general.  Sure, there are spots where baiting becomes a problem, but I bet you can find that with just about any form or method of hunting.

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Anyone who says they are fine spending 10 days hunting without seeing a critter is FOS. You may as well just go camping.

Reading that line made me think of this:
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/hunting/text/stages.txt
I know guys that fit that to a T.Others get stuck in one stage,some skip a few and most a combination of a few.
I know a guy that hunted with a longbow for years(I think 6) until he got a buck and wouldn't shoot a doe.First deer he ever killed,never would switch to a compound or gun to get one. He wanted to get it with a longbow. I also know guys that will give a trad bow a try for the begining of the seaso,then they HAVE to switch to a compound to "get one on the ground".  
Biggie,this post wasn't meant as a dig to you either. But I do know guys that have been fine with not seeing/shooting anything on hunts.Everyone's different. Me,for Javies,I probably would have been dragging a bag of corn right out with you.

Gosh, I believe Biggie was thinking and talking about SEEING critters, not necessarily killing one.  I am very laid back about killing one, but I agree with his statement. .  after a little while, it is no longer hunting, just sight seeing.  Taking away the very real potential
for a possible interaction at any moment sorta defeats most of us.
ChuckC

HI Chuck, Yep,I read it as just seeing animals as well.Everyone is different,just knowing that the animals are there,without seeing any is enough to keep some guys going.I understand what you just wrote and kind of feel that way myself.I'd much rather see/get a shot at something,I think everyone would. But I don't think everyone takes having a "bad" hunt,not seeing anything,the same.My friend went on an elk hunt in Oregon,never saw an elk.But he says it's the best hunt he's been on and he's been on more than a few and shot some nice animals.I don't think he's fos when he says that,just how he is.What makes up a great hunt is different for everyone as well.Some guys just want the biggest buck,elk,etc.,doesn't really matter how the hunt went or what they did to get it as long as it's rack is how ever many inches,you can see that on alot of the outdoor tv shows.If that's good enough for them,makes them happy and it was legal,God bless them! I love to hunt and love to be successful at it(shoot the deer,elk,whatever) but my best day out hunting I didn't kill anything. I had a goshawk go right past me and slam into a grouse about 5 yards from my stand.To me,that was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.
Sorry to the OP for taking this off topic,I'll bow out now.

Bears are different than deer and they behave differently.  They range all over the place and one very rarely sees them unless its at a food source.  In certain areas you can find them on exposed slopes feeding on fresh grass, in timbered areas with no open areas there is very low probability of seeing a bear let alone killing one with bow or gun.  Deer are more easily patterned and hunted than bears. In other words baiting isn't necessary to hunt deer but it is necessary to hunt bears in large enough numbers to keep their population in check.

Bear populations are less dictated by winter feed conditions like deer populations are therefore they can and will become overpopulated.  Bears will kill every moose calf that they find and normal bear predations will kill as many as 60% of the moose calves.  Therefore I believe that baiting bears is essential to hunting success and essential for conservation efforts.  I do think that baited bears is an unskilled form of hunting but like hogs it's essential for population control.   I can easily control deer populations without baiting    ;)

One of the best deer hunts I've been on I didn't SEE a deer for a week, they were there but it was a an area I was unfamiliar with.  I don't consider it a failed hunt, I still had a blast.  Baiting would have ensured my success but somehow I don't mind not getting a deer that week, I got one later in another area.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin Dill:
I don't pass judgment on those who choose to bait, but it's not for me. I know all the arguments and cultural history of baiting, but I'm just not interested in it. I use the analogy of chumming trout with cheese nibbles, so I can catch one on a dry fly and bamboo rod. I wanted to hunt Africa for a few years, but I eventually wrote it off my list due to the baiting (food & water stations). I can't do it.

Again and for the record; I spend no time worrying about who hunts over bait. I'm good with not using it for my hunts.

My sentiments exactly

No one knows  deer baiting like a low country SC boy... he gave you the right answer on the first page.

Corn is Ok... you'll have a few shots at jacked up does and small six points,,, also a coon or two. Deer are just a lot more relaxed and easier to hunt on natural food or trails.

Ps. I like shooting does, six points, and a coon or two!   :archer2:

More CWD coming to another state. I am pretty sure the committee that pushes laws thru has a major "feeder" manufacturer represented so really more about the money. Corn is expensive and also loaded with GMO which has it's own health ramifications. I do not eat much beef or processed foods because of it. Tons of people feeding/poisoning their kids/family with products deemed safe at the store. Having health problems? Look at what you are really eating, then blow it off saying it will not affect my family.

Bottom line - Guess it will affect my deer meat and change the nature of hunting in the area/state. Roll with the punches, the world rotates ever faster these days. Mutants will be the survivors down the road. Good mutants or bad mutants to be determined. Just hope they have bows and arrows still. Just another joke, with a third laughing, a third not, and a third not caring.

Well from what I read it's still illegal to do it on public land.I guess I'm lucky that the wma I hunt is 56000 acres so I don't think it will affect me much. I'm not really sure it will even change things too much seems like it rarely gets cold enough to make a short food supply.

I say to each his own.  I've hunted over feeders before, and while it's not my preferred way to hunt, I can understand why in some areas it would be awfully hard to see any game without it.

The animals I've seen at feeders were all kinds of wired, and were ready to bolt at the slightest noise or movement.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you are hunting near a feeder you will have an easy kill-just ask anyone who has gone on the Solana trip.