Ok I know what you are thinking...Carp are trash fish right and they all must die! Yeah me to.
But I had a long conversation with a biologist the other day about how beneficial the fish is to our waterways. He stated that yes most of our lakes and streams are overpopulated with them but there are many that are not. He was worried that killing them in these underpopulated places would be detrimental to the entire system. He is promoting if yours is underpopulated not to take any from it.
Penny for your thoughts???
Sounds like BS to me.
They're invasive and they compete with our native species and they reproduce RAPIDLY! They have no place here and I don't hesitate to put an arrow through one every chance I get.
idk how they could ever all die off! those suckers reproduce faster than feral hogs crossed with field mice! We nearly completely drained our irrigation lake last year, I mean there was a foot or two of water left by the time we refilled it. Most of the carp and other fish died, but this year the carp are back big time. Don't ask me how, but its as if there is more carp than ever before. I'm calling bologna on that one
Some biologist?? Carp are invasive, in some areas pervasive and will most likely never be totally eradicated, BUT I sure do wonder about this person worries about said under populated systems??
We go to wilderness areas with our canoes and fish lakes that are cleaner than Culligan bottled water. There are no carp in them. I am trying to imagine how bad a water source has to be when adding a bunch of muck stirring foreign invaders will improve it. Lets not forget about those jumping carp, we have them in our local Iowa rivers now as well. When I was a kid the Little Sioux river in Iowa would flow clear and it had seaweed, once we found lillypads even. Now, especially after all the rain, it is turbid mixture of corn stalks that never rot in the fields, hog poop, and dirt, with some h20 thrown in to keep it moving. Maybe, it needs more carp.
Just because someone has a degree doesn't mean all their opinions are scientific!
At the risk of going against the grain, I am going to add another perspective;
Who decides that ANY given species is "trash?" And furthermore, what are the parameters for the decision? Because, if it's based on categories like "invasive" and "competing with native species" and "fast reproduction," I doubt there is any species more deserving than our own race.
I don't intend to start an argument, but it seems to me that all living things deserve our respect. Those are my thoughts, and you can keep the penny.
Carpe diem?
No - Carpe carp.
Seize the carp!
Sorry, that sounds like typical 'let's humans reengineer nature' BS. No thank you Monsanto. Kill 'em all. I cannot stand when ignorant people defend invasive species. We have that here in FL with those danged Muscovy ducks that have threatened our Mallards and other native species. Too many people think the Muscovys are indigenous and get all bleeding heart about them, feed them and put up "Duck Crossing" signs and such. Malarkey.
I doubt that guys ideas will ever become accepted management practice. Its like saying the everglades are better off with pythons.
Are all the carp species non-native?
Well if there are water systems that are truly under-populated with trash fish, just give it a year or two and your biologist friend will be able to rest easy. Once they get in, they are there to stay and will reproduce like crazy. They are devastating the rivers in Illinois. Kill em.
I believe the species of carp the biologist is referring to is the grass carp. Which can be very beneficial to ponds and lakes by keeping the algae levels low and manageable. The big head carp, silver carp or jumping carp are the ones taking over the rivers and streams and threatening other species of fish. Just my thoughts... P.S. Me and a buddy filled a 55 gallon drum with big heads yesterday!
Most algae blooms are caused by elevated nutrients in fertilizer runoff or treated sewage. A problem we could actual fix at the source if we had the guts. Carp are not the answer.
Is this trad related?
Well it should stay kinda centered on bow fishing the buggers hopefully
Buffalo carp are a native species.
Those are my thoughts, and you can keep the penny.
:laughing:
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
― Aldo Leopold
I say, they are not going anywhere so let's use the very permissive rules to our advantage and go have some fun!!!! It is a blast, great times for the hole FAMILY as you can just have fun and let the kids get out and shoot and run around outdoors. If you are adventurous with your cuisine as I am then find ways to utilize the resource. They taste great smoked or turned into patties. They also make great fertilizer and animal feed. Carp is wonderful as crawfish bait, trap line baits etc!!!!
Use them , and enjoy the fun. Bowfishing is one of my favorite things to do as it is , well relaxing and FUN
I agree! Kill all you want, just Respect them.
I am with you on that Don. Utilize the resource
He must have a screw loose or something of sorts.
Carp are non-native invasives. They provide very little benifit to any of our river systems. You should really be concerned that it is hunter/fisherman money that is paying his salary.
Does one (seriously?) have to have a screw loose to respect the game we pursue? ANY game...I can't believe that my mentioning respect for a species would cause alarm to anyone...???!!?
They are a non-native species. Their feeding habits ruined several of the premier duck hunting lakes in western Minnesota to mention only one instance of their destructiveness. At least in Minnesota it is illegal to return them to the water.
Unfortunately they are now part of the North American environment but an unwelcome and invasive one. I doubt they could be eradicated in any practical manner.
Carp out weigh the number of folks who bow fish for them so I don't think you could ever hurt the population. I say have at it if you like to do that kind'a thing. I just don't know what I would do with them so I don't go very often. Have fun!
QuoteOriginally posted by don kauss:
At the risk of going against the grain, I am going to add another perspective;
Who decides that ANY given species is "trash?" And furthermore, what are the parameters for the decision? Because, if it's based on categories like "invasive" and "competing with native species" and "fast reproduction," I doubt there is any species more deserving than our own race.
I don't intend to start an argument, but it seems to me that all living things deserve our respect. Those are my thoughts, and you can keep the penny.
Let's take the Florida Everglades:
Invasive/non-native insects established and breeding 1000 plus varieties.
Invasive/non-native animals established and breeding 192 named varieties.
Plants? There are only 1301 Native species identified. There are 1392 Invasive/non-native varieties of which about 100 are listed as Category I and 12 of those are at the top of the list for eradication and destruction because of the rate that they spread and the damage they do.
Who identifies threats? Science
It is a fitting thing to respect plants and animals in their native habitat. It is also fitting to respect all life on some level.
Comparing the nature of animals and humans makes for an interesting conversation, but the dangers of developing anthropomorhphic alternative reality is only outweighed by the danger of denying the place of man in the food chain.
I had a long conversation with a biologist once about the polution rates in an river because of the low water. He read me an official release about how the fish were safe to eat three times. Then I asked him if he was fishing that river. He said "sure, the fishing has been great." I asked "Are you eating them?" He said " Hell no, have you seen what is holding up what little water we have?" He was referring to a packing plant that was cheating, and two small towns that had permission to dump sewage because their sewer systems were shot. When they were not dumping and the packing plant was not pumping, the river stopped flowing, which isolated the game fish in the deeper holes. After that year, the game fish numbers went way down and the carp numbers went crazy. It takes a lot to damage carp numbers.
Yeap I'd say that dude who told you that is living in his own small world. Nothing wrong with that, well yes actually there is! THATS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS with this country. We have become out of touch with what is right and wrong. And if you voice your opinion your radical or politically uncorrect! Bottom line common carp are NOT from this area and determinal to any area around here. PERIOD!
X2! Gregg Dudley. I am all for respecting nature, but introduced species are one of the biggest scourges of our time. I'd like to know where that fellow got his degree from, we had classes on invasive species management where I studied...
Well, guys and gals it depends on what carp he is talking about. The Buffalo carp and Gar species are indigineous to our water's and always have been. The Buffalo population's have dropped some, but still plenty. The German carp (common) which was brought over on the mayflower for food for the journey, and the asian carp are invasive and are what are hurting the aquatic ecosystem. Why I bowfish so feverishly, that and because I love it.
The way the poster put it, he was talking about the good old German carp. Probably, the biologist did not consider the difference. There are an increasing number of animal activist types getting into DNR jobs.
Exactly Toddster. We talked about many of the species. I did begin the conversation asking him about the state of the invasive species in Kentucky. We were mostly talking about the Bigheads as they are the ones I enjoy hunting, but then the conversation morphed into his thoughts on all carp shouldn't be lumped into the same bag and he thought there should be some "off limits" species in certain waterways beginning with our streams only. I told him good luck with getting that one ironed out.
I agreed that some of our streams probably have a low population of buffalos and commons but he would have to prove to me that those streams are "unhealthy".
There is no fish named "Buffalo Carp" there are 6 large species of sucker named Buffalo. The two new species of "Carp" are damaging the populations of our three species more than all the bowfishermen put together.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lucas K:
There is no fish named "Buffalo Carp" there are 6 large species of sucker named Buffalo. The two new species of "Carp" are damaging the populations of our three species more than all the bowfishermen put together.
Thanks Lucas!
Sounds like the biologist gave you his.
The biologists around here say we have to embrace and preserve the coyote population.
QuoteOriginally posted by TonyW:
Carpe diem?
No - Carpe carp.
Seize the carp!
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :laughing: :laughing:
The Asian carp are the reason for the dwindling buffalo numbers. They are more efficient filter feeders, therefore out competing the buffalo.
I have been bowfishing hard for about 20 years, last ten off my boat. I have shot in tournament's where we shot over 2,000 in a 24 hour shoot. Went back the next day and there was still plenty of them. I find it hard to believe can hurt a population that has estimated at 4 million egg's per spawn. The silver (asian), bigheads are foster in eco system but are subseptable to oxygen levels of water more than other species. Though the alligator gar has taken a hit in recent year's mostly do to habitat change, like most of our beloved anaimal's. just food for thought, all in my opinion of course.
I believe some species of carp are native... but seem to recall that the grass carp was introduced.
Bowfished carp on the St. Lawrence river for years, one of the original St. Lawrence Archers that help start the bowfishing tourny up there... Plenty of carp there...
Invasive species are just that.. invasive.. some do some good, some don't.
The carp is the junkyard rat of the freshwater world. Like hogs, they might be fun to hunt, but they are absolute hell on an ecosystem.
Asian and European carp are an invasive species and does not belong. With all of the bad that has come from them, how can someone say:
1. They are underpopulated when they don't even belong.
2. and to allow them to populate, when they breed at alarming rates as it is.
Many Biologists come up with strange ideas in an effort to make them selves stand out, or be at the forefront of some great idea.
Sorry, there is enough evidence that they are trouble and don't belong.
No shortage here we shot this bunch yesterday.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y275/420W/download_zps0ae1cccc.jpg)
For those who don't help eradicate them because they don't know what they'd do with them, I wonder how those carp would work as bear bait? For those of you in states where thats legal of course. Maybe thats a good use, killing two birds with one stone, Knocking off barrel fulls of carp at a time and baiting bears while you're at it.
Jim, that is a great haul! Going to have to tell the wife I need a tractor for bowfishing. :D :D
It has nothing to do with "respect". It is an invasive, non native, damaging species.
What liberal BS. "Respect" this invading species at the cost of native, valued ecosystems and species. Nonsense.
Lucas,
If the tractor for bowfishing line works for you please let me know your EXACT wording so I can get a tractor too!!!! LOL
All depends on a critters looks and taste. If carp tasted like perch there would be a season and a limit. Sure wish I could bow fish those invasive salmon and brown trout but they are pretty and taste good. Trash invasive, sport invasive, still an invasive.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
It has nothing to do with "respect". It is an invasive, non native, damaging species.
What liberal BS. "Respect" this invading species at the cost of native, valued ecosystems and species. Nonsense.
Exactly right Roger, it would be like worrying about killing rats that invaded your house because of disrespect.
QuoteOriginally posted by Brianlocal3:
Lucas,
If the tractor for bowfishing line works for you please let me know your EXACT wording so I can get a tractor too!!!! LOL
Ha I think she may know me too well, I showed her the picture (and nothing else) StoneKnife posted and she said "you don't need a tractor!"