This picture was taken by my cousin yesterday right across the road from my deer woods and less than a mile from West Des Moines. Just to the right of them is my Mom's back yard. I will be leaving my stand a little before dark this coming fall :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/jkendall/MountainLions_zps52632198.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jkendall/media/MountainLions_zps52632198.jpg.html)
The DNR have confirmed the sighting and there will be a story on KCCI news tonight. I am a midwest hunter so I am not quite sure how I feel about big cats in my deer woods but I guess they were there first. I hope to see them myself this weekend even though I know it's not likely.
:scared: And I worry about bears here in N.J.!
Jason that's awesome! I can't imagine sitting beside a tree and have a big cat like that to let out a loud growl. Especially behind me.No doubt i'd leave before dark!
Very cool and I GUARANTEE you the hair on the back of your neck will stand up if a critter jumps in the brush on your way out in the dark after seeing that. Cool indeed!
That hair raising on the back of your neck makes hunting real and all the more savory in my mind.
Not mountain lions. Must have been bobcats lol. I've heard that one before. At least they will verify the sightings.
Why wouldn't they be there, lot of deer to eat in West Des Moines (plus cats, dogs, raccoons etc.). I'll have to let my son know to keep his camera handy.
I used to teach school in Greenfield, Iowa and one was hit by a car out there. There's definitely plenty of food out there for them.
I remember the Greenfield cat story, that was back when they didnt want to admit they were in IA.
They are in N.J. but the "experts" say no. They don't want us to know. They are also in PA as my friend got one on trail cam. He took it to the game wardens and they told him they knew it but keep it quiet.
When was probably 16 or so (29 yrs. ago, yikes!!) I was in my mom's car and we were coming down our driveway and we saw one bounding away when our headlights hit it. That was in Sherrill, Ia. right outside of Dubuque!
looks like your gonna have more than just two... :D
Young males passing thru is what they tell us in MO :D
When I was a young male, I wanted to stay where the young females were tho......... :laughing:
Saw two together in Arkansas 40 years ago. They walked within 30 yds of me, while I was on the ground. They did see me and in no big hurry turned a right angle into a slight recess and were gone. Six months later I got a call from AR G&F and they wanted to know if they looked healthy & what I thought they weighed. I said I had no idea how to guess the weight of a mountain lion. I told them both appeared grown but one was about 1/3 smaller than the other. The G&F acknowledged that there were some in the state. I don't know what they would say today.
That is really cool!
I talked to my mom last night and the news said they were probably just stray cats! The DNR wouldnt tell the media about the tracks they seen or the picture, why?
I also found out my aunt who lives a 1/2 mile on the other side of my mom was told by a biker last weekend to be careful in her garden because he was pretty sure he saw a lion down the trail, she told my mom she thought he was nuts at the time! The bike trail is right behind the cats in the picture.
I do not understand why The DNR always tries to deny or down play sightings. If they are trying to prevent widespread panic, They should inform people, not lie to them. It does nothing to promote trust.
My guess is either they are up to no good or are trying to avoid all the annoying, cat ate my dog phone calls.
We get some misinformation about panthers from the fwc down here as well. They insist that there are no panthers in FL outside the very southwestern tip of the peninsula, but I have seen trail camera pics of them in the panhandle. Supposedly young males will travel as much as 1,000 mi in a year. Dont know why the gov doesn't want to admit that lions are making a pretty strong comeback...
Where I live, I have personally seen one, as have several other residents living in my township over the last 8 years.
A mountain lion was killed a few years ago about 9 miles from my house. A coworker went and viewed the cat the next morning. The DNR agent was just leaving the house when my friend arrived. They discussed the age, sex, weight, etc.
On the noon news on KCRG TV-9 they described the cat as a female, which was what the DNR agent told my friend. It was told the same way that evening on the 5o'clock news. Magically the next day there was a retraction stating that cat was a young male that was just passing through the state, not a female. Heaven forbid if we would think they may be breeding in our state of Iowa, how could they? We have all the necessary food, water and shelter for them to proliferate.
In 2002 I found what I believe to be a mountain lion signpost in the Iowa River Corridor. It looked just like two others I have seen in Wyoming and the Black Hills of South Dakota.
Personally I am glad they are here and look forward to any encounter I could have.
With a picture like that,it is a very simple matter to have someone go stand right where the cats were and take the same picture from the same position,with the same camera.That completely rules out any conjecture about the size of the cats.
Do you have any pictures of the tracks?
My dad saw a big lion by the bike trail off hwy 6 outside of Adel a couple weeks ago dragging a deer. But they don't live in Iowa!
I used to live outside Adel and there were several long time locals I had talked to who had seen mountain lions near there.
It would actually be hard to imagine them not being there with all of the deer and ideal habitat.
In Florida, I've personally seen two. It would be pretty hard to mistake a lion/panther for something else.
Same thing in NY, credible witnesses but the DEC says "no way" they are mountain lions.
If one can make it form North Dakota to Connectticut ( like that male did before getting killed by a car )they can make it anywhere.
JimB, I plan on doing exactly that tomorrow and I will look for the prints myself if they dont get washed away in the rain. I know the grass they are in is about a foot high so they sure arent farm cats!
A fellow from Cedar Rapids shot one during shotgun season a couple years ago. He had a full body mount done, saw it at the Iowa deer classic. I think he shot it somewhere near Marengo.
That isn't good thing.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason Kendall:
JimB, I plan on doing exactly that tomorrow and I will look for the prints myself if they dont get washed away in the rain. I know the grass they are in is about a foot high so they sure arent farm cats!
Sounds like a plan.Don't wear your deer decoy suit Jason.
:thumbsup:
Cool picture Jason neil
According to MDC we have hogs in Missouri that no one I know can find.
In the not too distant past they finally admitted that we have black bears and big cats
Our government says no Grizzlies in Colorado. No Bigfoot anywhere and no aliens....lol
God bless, Mudd
PS: The IRS is here to help us...lol
Mud,I have saw a group of hogs in MO. Way down south near clarkton. I can say there were hogs with 100% certainty as they were under 30 yards. 4 of them.
Five or six years ago while approaching my tree stand before sunrise in Benton County Iowa I heard something in the area let out what I can only describe as a loud long roar.Can't say it was a lion but I have spent alot of time in the woods and had never heard anything like it. Made me glad of two things, that I was up in a tree and I was armed with 15 rounds of 40 caliber as well as my bow. Two years ago I was in a cafe in southern Iowa and they had a picture of dead mountain lion with two people standing over it in the snow. The waiter said it was shot by a customer nearby and the DNR accused him of fabricating the story.
It rained to hard last night but I measured the grass where they were and it varies from 6-12" long. Those are not farm cats :readit:
So Jason, if they are barn cats, what is that farm field, 12' wide? :D
Obviously a mountain lion can't turn from a female into a male but it is easy to misidentify the sex of a lion (or bobcat), especially younger animals if the observer is not experienced. I have had my hands on at least 200 lions (Utah & Montana) and it was not terribly uncommon for the hunter to misidentify the sex of the animal.
I even had a hunter once misidentify the sex of his bear, that one was a little harder to accept...
I can understand that myself Iowa Tom, but a DNR official who gets to handle the dead cat for official verification should not make that mistake.
They troll for them out here. You put on floresant colord tights and matching shirt and go bike riding in the foot hills.It works. Lose some bait doing it some times.
we have seen one in North central Missouri im sure they are in Iowa
Their hear, I saw one last winter east of Solan IA. The local farmer saw it also.
doug77
Iowa Tom,,we have some PEOPLE that live just down the road from us that are VERY hard to identify the sex of,lol.
Got them around here also. Four DNR documented trail cam pictures this yr in different areas.
One walked out from right behind where I live and crossed the hwy about 3yrs ago. That same yr I had two of something come up within 70yrds of the stand I was in late one afternoon. If they weren't cougars or mountain lions I have no earthly idea what they were.
I have seen tracks in Cali, a cat in Fl, and two in NY. Moving to Idaho in the fall hoping to make it all four corners. They are out there no matter what the government tells you. NY has been getting wilder. I keep seeing mink, porcupine, and fisher cats pushing further and further south every year.
In the last thread I saw photos of a "reported" cougar, I mailed copy to a friend in Michigan who is one of the leading eastern cougar authorities about and he said house cat. One photo showed the cat with its tail straight up in the air spraying a bush. That one was easy, as the cougar does not raise its tail vertically to spray.
This one was pretty easy too, as the animal on the right is a dog, nothing catlike at all. The other animal is likely a dog as well.
I saw one just out south of Des Moines IA off I35 crossing a field. I pulled off on to the median and got a good look at it with 10x meopta binos. It was definately a lion, not a house cat. I've shot 2 of them to date so I know what they look like!
I would not worry too much about what any government department says, they are conditioned to not be able to deal with the truth. However, we have had our share of sightings in the NW end of the state as well. I saw one jump up out of a cedar thicket and clobber a turkey out of the air. I tried to report it and I even marked some tracks, but the dnr did not want to believe me. I did not tell them about the one that was leaving big tracks in the dust and burying turkey feathers last year.
Cool! Always wanted to see one.
If you go on the web site and look up KCCI news about the mountain lion siting it has a story about DMPD shooting another mountain lion in Des Moines last year with pics. Had confirmed sitings a year ago in NE Iowa where I hunt. Sister-in-law saw one cross the road in front of her in that area. She knows what she's talking about. Iowa has lions.
Yup, we have them in NY but are DEC will not admit it!! I have seen one at least twice and my wife has seen a few herself. Always cool to know they are out there! Shawn
There is no reason to think they are not in the Midwest, here are a couple pics from a few years back. The MDC Mt. Lion response team couldn't make it out to look...
Still steaming when I found it.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/5.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/5.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/9.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/9.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/7.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/7.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/8.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/8.jpg.html)
I'm not sure how you get mountain lion out of that picture? I'm not saying they aren't in Iowa, but I'd bet good money they ain't in that picture. Nothing is right about it. Scale, body posture, tail. Even the head of the left one looks more like a dog than a cat?
Buddy of mine lives at the foot of the Catskills. He couldn't het DEC to come out and look into it when he found a half eaten spike in the crook of a tree 20 feet up. And some obvious prints in the wet clay at the base.
Which Catskills? Africa?
If not, then someone lost their pet leopard. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by kennym:
There is no reason to think they are not in the Midwest, here are a couple pics from a few years back. The MDC Mt. Lion response team couldn't make it out to look...
Still steaming when I found it.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/5.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/5.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/9.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/9.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/7.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/7.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/8.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/8.jpg.html)
Couple questions for you Kenny
1. Which member of the Missouri Department Of Conservation's Mountain Lion Response did you contact?
2. What would you estimate the live weight of that deer to be
3.Do you have a picture of the animal just the way you found it?
Daryl
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason Kendall:
This picture was taken by my cousin yesterday right across the road from my deer woods and less than a mile from West Des Moines. Just to the right of them is my Mom's back yard. I will be leaving my stand a little before dark this coming fall :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/jkendall/MountainLions_zps52632198.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jkendall/media/MountainLions_zps52632198.jpg.html)
The DNR have confirmed the sighting and there will be a story on KCCI news tonight. I am a midwest hunter so I am not quite sure how I feel about big cats in my deer woods but I guess they were there first. I hope to see them myself this weekend even though I know it's not likely.
Looks like a couple mongrels to me
Daryl
Pretty small deer, don't really know what it would weigh, never weigh pansized ones.
Actually called the agent, but I had his number in my phone and figured he would get em here if needed. He is a friend of mine BTW....
No pic as found, we skinned the rest of skin off , was a bite on back(shown with tape) and another on front of neck. Top teeth 2 3/8" spread.
If I ever see one my days of going to and from my treestand in the dark are over!
Iv been hearing about sightings here in NY for 40 yrs. My grandfather said he saw one sleeping on a big boulder behind where he kept his camper. This was probably 25 yrs ago. He said it was black with a log tail and was not that far up the steep hill from him. He said there was no mistaking it, and if my Grandfather said he saw one then you can bet that he did. My ex-brother in law was a DC officer and said there were no confirmed sightings. I didn't believe him.Iv' never seen or heard one, but that in no way doesn't mean their not here.
A couple of years ago I had a state trapper out on a couple of my sheep that had been killed. Lion was my first suspected as we have a real problem with them here. He determined that it was canine due to the fur and blood strung about. He said lions are very efficient at killing and are very swift about it. Pretty much game over in an instant. I later found coyote tracks on a gopher pile. They had to of jumped the gate. A cat has no problem dragging a deer somewhere more secluded.
I have lost two dogs in the last 15 years to cats from around the house here. They are not fun nor cool to have around. Trust me.
QuoteOriginally posted by kennym:
There is no reason to think they are not in the Midwest, here are a couple pics from a few years back. The MDC Mt. Lion response team couldn't make it out to look...
Still steaming when I found it.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/5.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/5.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/9.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/9.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/7.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/7.jpg.html)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/8.jpg) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/kennym/media/8.jpg.html)
Mountain Lions have moved into the Midwest, no doubt, and honestly I don't see state Game and Fish agencies denying that fact.
Since 1992 the Missouri Department of Conservation has confirmed 30+ cougars in Missouri. Of the 30+ confirmations, 6 were cats we could actually put our hands on and were all male specimens(2 road kills, 3 shot by humans and 1 cage-trapped). Perhaps females are better at avoiding cars, bullets and traps but I doubt it. Young males are dispersing from saturated western populations to avoid being killed by dominant males whether they like hangin out with girls or not. Will a female show up in the midwest somewhere? It seems likely to me that one will at some point. Nature has a way of making those things happen. It may be from a dispersal from another population or an escaped captive animal. Who knows.
As a member of the MDC's Mountain Lion Response Team I can assure you we look at 100s and 100s of pictures annually of tracks and animals which people claim are of or made by mountain lions. We investigate livestock and deer kills weekly to determine what did it. A lot of man power and hours spent on what has become mountain lion mania in the midwest. I drove all the way to St Joseph once to look at a horse which had been killed by a dog which the horse owner and local animal control folks claimed was killed by a mountain lion. Amongst the blood bath I found a puddle of bloody frothy vomit that contained a handful of scalloped potatoes that apparently had been ingested by the dog before going on the killing spree.
I have looked at the picture at the top of this thread and for sure wouldn't confirm a mountain lion based on what I see. I cant tell what it is.
When I read the posts above it kinda saddens me to see Tradgang members responding in such a "mainstream" way with the undertows of distrust of government, mountain lion mania, and bogus claims of black panthers and deer up in trees. Black panthers are not native to North America and are melanistic phases of either leopards or jaquars. Mountain lions dont pull deer up in trees, flood water and cheetahs do that.
Mountain lions are very predictable in how they kill and how they treat prey.
Kenny, I wish I had gotten a chance to look at your deer when it was fresh. Linn Co. is actually within my region. I know the agents around there well and am anxious to hear what they thought of your pictures. I can tell you that from the pictures you have posted, nothing really screams mountain lion to me. A bobcat could have easily dragged a deer that size for a long distance. A bobcat would also explain the multiple puncture wounds you show. You never mentioned where the animal was found or if it was or wasn't covered when you found it. All important factors in the equation. In the future call me directly at 573-823-5277 if you want the mountain lion response team there.
Game and Fish Agencies are filled with good honest people that go out of their way to assist you whenever they can. They try to analyze and present the facts as best they can. Some refuse to listen and would rather believe what they hear in the coffee shop.
Seems many people want to believe the place they hunt or hike or own is the wooliest, remotest, wildest place remaining East of the Rocky Mountains and Pumas, Black Panthers, Honey bears, and even wolverines have existed there all along. Sorry, in most cases, that's just not true.
Mudd, there are wild hogs in Missouri, but you'll have to take a break from pounding those bags in your back yard long enough to go hike some remote places down in the Ozarks to find them. They arent gonna walk down Main St in Ashland and let you shoot at em. ;) Sorry couldnt resist Bud.
Trap
Trap quote: "I have looked at the picture at the top of this thread and for sure wouldn't confirm a mountain lion based on what I see. I cant tell what it is."
I am 100% agree with that statement.
Now as far as the hogs are concerned... buddy I've made several trips down south looking for them and even baited an area where there was supposed to be hog activity...nothing.
I made contact with the folks that are in charge of the major lakes.. especially those south and west of me and they deny any hogs in their areas.
I was told by the conservation department that if I saw any I should shoot them on sight but they would not share any information about where the problem hogs might be located because they didn't want hunters going in and possibly causing them to disperse thereby making it more difficult for them to eradicate them.
Having said all that, I guess I could just hunt harder....lol
Trap please don't take my long winded reply as anything negative toward you my friend but if you do please find it in your heart to forgive me....ok?
God bless,Mudd
You're not gonna say anything to offend me Mudd, we go back way to far for that to happen.
I'm down with the hunt harder idea. it's all about the hunting and not the killing anyway, right?
I truly hope if you do find one, it's the last one in the state and we can close the book on them, at least until the next trailer load is dumped illegally on public ground.
Trap
You betcha!!
I respect your view and have no intention of false claims or to add to your sadness, but when someone I trust 100% ( my Grandfather) tells me he saw a Big black cat as in Panther size or whatever the large cat was, then I have to believe him. Too many of these sightings threw the years by reputable people to just be imaginations gone wild.Of course Leopards are not indigenous to the US, but that doesn't mean a few have not escaped captivity and even breed succesfully. Evidently at least one did, or you can bet your bottom dollar Waldo Butler wouldn't have stated it as fact. You wouldn't state it as a bogus claim if you had known the man. I find your statement a little disrespectful in light of this. I'm sure your correct about most of these claims of M Lions being mistakes, but it is also a fact that they have been sighted in several states in the mid west and east of the Mississippi.All areas not normally habitated by M Lions. I respect your knowledge and efforts to this subject, and no I don't trust the federal government at all and with good reason.
Daryl, I'm not sure there was a response team when I found it. I heard all the same stuff tho, bobcat, dog ,etc.
The teeth marks are kind of jumbled in the pic because it looked like it took a 2nd bite. But my large lab and the bobcat skull I have are nowhere close to a 2 3/8" width between top teeth.
I'm sure you get a lot of bogus reports, and I discount most that I hear also.
We have seen tracks a couple other times roughly 4" across, but never reported them to anyone.
As far as trusting the government...... :D
Take care,
kenny
And sorry for getting off topic!
As far as trusting the government...... :D who could at this point :smileystooges:
If cats are breeding in the hills of SW MO & AR? There here to stay, it's perfect environment for them.
A few weeks after the Joplin tornado a young black jaquar or leopard was killed by a local sherif's deputy when it jumped off of a porch and ran towards the deputy. It was probably someone's "pet" that was displaced in the storm.
Exotic animals show up in a lot of places.
No disrespect was intended towards anyone. A lot of good men and women have claimed to to have seen black panthers or black mountain lions. And for all I know, they did. I wasn't with them. How do I know.
I base my comments on the premise that no melanistic mountain lion has never been "documented" in North America.
Kinda like Bigfoot, maybe one will show up someday.
Trap
Thanks Trap for the clarification :campfire:
"If cats are breeding in the hills of SW MO & AR? There here to stay, it's perfect environment for them."
Very likely where the first breeding population of mountain lions in modern times will occur. Couldn't agree more.
Daryl
Some thoughtful posts Trap.
Bear hunting this afternoon,I stumbled on to a lion kill,a doe whitetail and her 2 fawns.It's a tom lion about 130-140 lbs.I've been finding his tracks almost every time out.He is hunting these whitetails hard.Even if he kills a doe and doesn't find the fawns,that's 3 deer dead.
There were a couple mounds where the deer had been covered but all the parts were now uncovered.Most were in one spot but I threw a couple pieces in for the picture.The fawns were several feet to the right of the doe.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/BearSeason2013086.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/BearSeason2013086.jpg.html)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/BearSeason2013083.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/BearSeason2013083.jpg.html)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/BearSeason2013087.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/BearSeason2013087.jpg.html)
Cool, but gruesome pics.
Cyclic and others, I don't know why the various DNRs deny it - except I'm sure many sightings are bogus. There are mountain lions/cougars in Texas, and only recently has Louisiana DNR admitted they are there despite years of sightings, trail cam pics, and a scat study by one biologist. Even then, they state no breeding pairs, but possibly displaced males or pets. Do I think they are common? No, but I think there are a few out there.
Look at wolves, hogs and black bears expanding their territories, don't see why cougars would not do the same.