Here's where I am coming from. I have noticed that lots of pictures i see of Fred Bear, Bob Lee, Glenn St Charles, Ben Pearson, etc. have no string silencers on their bows; and, those bows sounded like a stand-up bass when shot. The bows that Chuck Adams shot to get his Super Slam sounded like a car door being slammed even with silencers and our trad bows today probably shoot almost as fast as those. Therefore, I question the crazy ends we go through and analysis we subject ourselves to in the name of "necessary" or "ethical" or whatever else someone makes us belieeve is most important this month.
I've only been shooting trad for about 12 years. Shot compounds before that and back then they were LOUD! If I shot at a relaxed animal, it died.
Please don't miss understand me, I'm not trying to promote loud bows for some rediculous reason; but, probably just convince myself to just shoot my bows, hunt more, and forget about obsessing over the little noise my bows make. :D
My favorite silencer is a heavy arrow.
Any advantage or minimizing the margin of error is an advantage. BTW my favorite silencer is a Hill bow.
In my mind there is no debate. Quiet is important. Granted noisy stuff still sometimes works, but often, it does not. Why take a chance by deliberately ignoring this major component of stealth? We will never eliminate all noise, but the quiter, the better in my opinion.
I've never really worried much about how quiet my bows are as long as they aren't too loud.
Hey if you think noise works for you-great! To each his own-Right?
I like getting that 6 th shot. LOL
I personally don't think a deer or whatever jumps the string. I think they jump the arrow. Stand by the target and have someone shoot an arrow. You can hear it coming right down your throat.
But I can't stand a harsh noisey bow. It just ruins the moment.
When I hear guys and gals getting second shots at the same deer....I know it's not because their bow was loud! I have seen self bows with nothing on the string with a heavy, heavy arrow that were silent!
Sam, thats my point! When did it become so important? When the technology allowed it to happen? Now your totally wrong and unethical to not make your bow super quiet? Nonsense!
Sixby - now that is a good point! I have taken second and third shots with my Navaho Caddo longbow at deer. Would not have believed it before I did it. Heavy arrows and longbows are the best I've NOT heard.
I shot over quite a few deer from a tree when I first made the switch to trad equipment. What kept me going was seeing that I did not spook the game when I missed. Oops I'm startin to give away my true position on the matter.
Anyone else wanna chime in?
I like having any advantage I can get. A silent bow is just another tool. Is it necessary? Maybe not! But I know it doesn't hurt.
Its kind of like asking, If my broadhead is kinda sorta sharp but I hit the heart, Is it necessary to get it as sharp as possible?
I shoot longbows with 620 gr. arrows which by default makes them pretty darn quiet. I use the volume of the noise as an indicator of tuning and form. If the bow is noisy it tells me my brace is off or I torqued the string, etc. how important it is in hunting, I don't know for sure, but I love the soft "thump" so much that I switched from shooting 3 under back to spit finger just because I couldn't stand the harsher twang of the bow. I do however like the sizzling hiss of a snuffer heading down range!
I'll take quiet every time. I have missed deer and they didn't pay attention to the shot. I've even managed to kill some with the second shot.
2nd shot? I thought you were the killingnest, bestest hunter of the Bishop Boys ;) :p !!
:biglaugh:
I'll take a quiet set up every time....but I don't obsess on it. If it sounds quiet to me it's probably still going to be loud to what ever critter i'm trying to shoot. As long as it's an accurate shooting set up and sounds quiet go with it....(P.S. my new silencer is a Northern Mist Baraga :) )
Hmmmmmm. :rolleyes:
The way I look at it is if there are quieter bows available take advantage of it
I want my bow as quiet as I can get it.
My little Debbie snack cake wrappers will give me away before my bow :jumper: :jumper:
My experiences have convinced me that quiet is important...some deer have dropped 12" or so at the drop of my bowstring. So for me seeing is believing, so I do what I can to limit the noise as much as possible.Yes, not all deer have ducked my shots but lest one use that as a reason to infer it doesn't matter... well it matters to me as I like some measure of predictability for shot placement.
QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK:
I want my bow as quiet as I can get it.
X2!
Bisch
Necessary, maybe not but the twang of a bare recurve sure is annoying.MHO.
Same here, I just don't enjoy shooting loud bows. Only way I can enjoy shooting a recurve is to wrap contact areas of the string with yarn.
I shoot a nice heavy arrow from my bows and they are nice and quiet. I like them quiet, but am not micro-managing the noise level.
I cant stand a loud bow. All mine are whisper quiet. Does it matter? It does to me. I have killed second arrow deer and just last year i had 5 deer feed under my stand, i shot the lead doe and she just laid down. The other deer did not move, then a really heavy 10 point ran up and i shot him aswell. I dont believe that would have happened with a loud bow.
Sound moves alot faster than the arrow, I want as little sound getting to the animal as possible before the arrow can get there.
I find that anything I obsess about detracts from my experience. Noisy bow, proper canting, enough FPS, FOC, skinny strings, low stretch, etc., etc.
Nock it, pull it back, push my bow hand to the target, stretch.... that is all I need to worry about.
I realize this may be somewhat apples and oranges, and I like quiet bows as much as the next guy, but I have shot multiple times with a rifle which was definitely NOT quiet.
In Germany, it is the practice to harvest a quota of bucks, does and fawns. You don't shoot a doe with a fawn unless you take the fawn first. I have done that and had the doe look around wondering, not what the noise was, but why her fawn was down.
Given the super hearing ability of deer compared to ours, I find it hard to believe they don't hear a bow. They just often don't recognize it as an immediate danger.
I see no reason to add to the stuff that can go wrong by making the deer move with loud equipment. It is not difficult to quiet most bows and arrows. View any hunting video and at the shot nearly all of the animals are reacting. They hear something. With trad gear I have had second shot opportunities including at the other animal that was also standing there (besides the one I just hit. I don't recall that opportunity using compound bows or guns.
BTW. . ChuckA tended to shoot his aniamls at 100 yards or more (teasing) so sound was not as critical for him.
CHuckC
for me its important as I like quiet bows, no matter if Im going to hunt with them or not.
I think every situation can be different. Depending on the condition at the time, alertness, wind etc. one deer react harshly, and have another not react at all to the same bow.
I enjoy shooting a quiet bow more than a loud one, and will put some effort into making them quiet.
There is no debate that silence is golden.
Each situation is different and the animals we pursue reaction may vary greatly. Under the many 1000's of situations and animals encountered as by the audience this question is posed, one will encounter situations where a loud bow has scored successfully.
Enhanced silence can do nothing but improve the vantage.
Well a few people touched on what makes me get all crazy about noise. It makes my experience more enjoyable. I hunt with both longbow and recurve; but, I shoot and hunt mostly with a longbow because i just love the fact that i hear nothing but the flight of the arrowafter firing my long bow.
I thought of this post after shooting my recurve for about a week, then picking up my longbow. Bothare quiet, the longbow is another level of quiet that i just have an addiction to. Take care all!
At sea level at 68 degrees F, sound travels at 1125 ft per sec. With a bow that shoots 170 ft per sec, the sound travels 30 yds .48 seconds faster that the arrow. For a 20 yard shot the sound gets to the target about a third of a second faster than the arrow.
You judge your comfort level with whether the deer can jump the string or not in those time differences.
I understand what you are saying. I do think it is important but not to the point of pulling what little hair i have left out of my head. I get my bow as quite as i possibly can with the knowledge i have and then hunt and don't give it a second thought from there.
to me it has to do with how alert the animal is you are shooting toward. I have had whitetail at less than 10 yards do absolutely nothing after my shot as they fed by and I missed by shooting high out of a tree stand due to the angle and my own mistakes.... This was with a Habu which is not known to be a real quiet bow. I have shot and missed a doe at 12 yards and had her twitch and take a step sideways...and look at arrow in ground and continue walking.
All of these were unalert, no idea I was there....so I dont think noise matters on an unalert deer and they stiffen up and start looking at most...
Now get the same deer that see movement or something is not right.....doing the side to side heat weave trying to see what you are....and they are going to jump EVERY SINGLE SHOT no matter how quiet.
I think they see the movement of your release hands/arm and bow.....and react to it along with the movement of arrow as they are already staring towards you looking for MOVEMENT.
When they are looking away or otherwise unaware of your presence, I have never had one drop significantly to "jump the string/duck the arrow".... I like mine quiet as possible but convinced that is more for our benefit rather than our intended targets...if that was the case a crossgun or modern bow shooting light arrows would never get anything.
I am currently using silencers on my bow but it isn't very loud at all without them either.
I have often wondered if it really makes any difference how loud a bow is unless it is absolutely, totally without any noise at all. I mean, the deer is gonna hear it anyway if it makes a noise so it's gonna react at the sound no matter how faint or loud it is, right? :saywhat: :dunno: :confused:
In the meantime, I'll still use silencers on my hunting bow, but that's still subject to change without notice.......
I've used silencers on most of the bows since 1970. Some of the most modern bows that I no longer hunt with (you know the ones) don't require any silencers on the strings because of other developments.
I've always silenced my recurves but I've never gotten one absolute whisper quiet. In 44 years of bowhunting, probably averaging 1 deer a year (lots of 2-3 year droughts in the early days and 2-3 deer a year for the past 15 or so) I've never had a deer "jump the string".
I don't hunt public land deer and the private lands I hunt are only lightly so. I'm extremely careful to shoot at unaware deer when they aren't able to see me.
I agree with what several have offered that the movement of the shot may have more to do with alerting the beast than the noise.
I mean a glass bow is gonna make some kinda bit of sound in the end, even a Hill bow, if you're gonna make sound your ultimate factor go with a self bow with a dacron string and some puffs, there is no comparison. my little osage Hill bow i've been trying to sell is SILLY quiet. but it's only 40# also and prolly only does 140 fps on a good day? More fps/more power means more potential for noise imho. I enjoy shooting a quiet bow more than a loud bow.
It must be!
You see it all the time in the classifieds.So Smooth,so fast,and so quiet but if the bow has so many so's.Why is it for sale?
Anyway,
Not really necessary but seems to be a very desired quality.
Can't go wrong with quit. Every deer I have shot has gone down within 30-60 yards. I feel that part of the reason is because of a quite bow. There is almost no effort and cost in getting a bow to be as quiet as possible not sure why any body would not want quiet.
Gilbert
Well... man kind survived with the bow and arrow for thousands of years before using silencers so obviously it's not essential. However, any advantage that will allow us a more ethical kill is an advantage we should take
Amicus, GREAT point! I always tell compound and gun hunters how much shorter my blood trails are since switching to trad. In fact, i have seen every deer and hog go down in sight. In fact, many dont believe me but i had a witness of one hunt that i stalked a feeding hog to 8 yards. The shot nicked the back of the heart and the two blade slipped betweenthe ribs on both sides when it passed through. The did not even stop eating acorns, he literally feel over dead while chewing! He acted like a sand fly or a mosquito bit him then feel over. That was a really cool feeling. My cousin who witnessed the stalk from pirougue bought a long bow the next week he was so impressed! Converted just like that! Haha
BTW whats the deal with the thumbs down on the thread?
How about pondering this, how much speed is lost when putting on silencers of some kind, versus just using a heavier arrow ?, and thereby making the bow quieter, and probably more stable.
P.S. I do use some kind of silencer.
I like a bow that is fairly quiet but don`t sweat it. On pigs and Turkeys it don`t seem to matter I hit where I`m looking. Nearly all the deer I shoot at squat and I shoot for the squat. Our deer are hunted hard and for a long season here in Ga.....they are wired. Point is I want the deer to squat because thats what I shoot for. A little noise makes them all squat and I`m looking in the white hair at the crease of the leg almost under the body. I hit most mid lung and hear them fall. RC
QuoteOriginally posted by Kamm1004:
Well... man kind survived with the bow and arrow for thousands of years before using silencers so obviously it's not essential. However, any advantage that will allow us a more ethical kill is an advantage we should take
Interesting point kamm, but how can we be sure they didn't use silencers?? wonder if some cro-magnon guy figured it out way back then? silencers aren't something that would survive archeologically...just a brainstorm
I think quietest bow I own is a vine maple John Strunk bow with B50 and beaver fur silencers shooting about 11gpp.....
Even though I stated I think it is movement during shot on alert deer that causes them to JUMP STRING (never seen a deer that was unalarmed and not looking at hunter jump string with trad bow).....I put new string on my Sparrowhawk and after setting brace height and shooting 50 arrows through it with nothing...and hearing the twang of skinny strings on a D shaped bow....had a set of catwhiskers ready to put on when I came indoors.
I gotta have silencers even if no reason but peace of mind. :) :)
Simple answer from me after not reading any of the posts... Yes, there is nothing but benefit from a quiet bow!
Can it be done with a loud bow? Sure! But I'd bet it happens way more often with a quiet bow...
QuoteOriginally posted by nineworlds9:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kamm1004:
Well... man kind survived with the bow and arrow for thousands of years before using silencers so obviously it's not essential. However, any advantage that will allow us a more ethical kill is an advantage we should take
Interesting point kamm, but how can we be sure they didn't use silencers?? wonder if some cro-magnon guy figured it out way back then? silencers aren't something that would survive archeologically...just a brainstorm [/b]
Maybe they did maybe they didn't. I was specifically stating my opinion based on photographs of native Americans we have where there are no silencers on their strings. Also most paintings of various archers from around the world do not depict the use of silencers. That's not saying they didn't have them though.
Not if your taking closer shots.
To me there is something very alluring about the whisper quiet rapport of a longbow or recurve. It adds to the attraction of traditional equipment. Like many have said, I am sure it can be done with loud equipment, but it is personally a distraction when a bow has a loud twang. Makes me feel like I don't have things dialed in right. When its whisper quiet, well tuned and throws a quick straight shot, I just feels right! I prefer as quiet as possible! And not with rubber mushrooms stuck all over the limbs and quivers either :eek:
I look at sound much like sent. The deer in the areas I hunt are use to some of both in the areas I hunt. When relaxed, they are not bothered by a little of either. But a big dose of one will get a reaction. I don't need to have a bow so quiet the deer hats nothing, but I don't want to drop a fire cracker on them.
I see no down side in a quiet bow unless you kill the performance to much and get to much arrow drop at your effective range. That is not an issue for me most of the time. If my arrow does fall short, I would rather the deer was still standing not alarmed.
I doubt the performance level of most bows used by hunters long ago shooting stone points was such that they needed silencers. Many modern long bows don't need them.
And, who says all the glass bows in recent history were that loud? I have some old glass recurve bows I hunted with 35 years ago. With original strings and no silencers, and wood arrows from the time, they are as quiet as any modern well tuned recurve with fast flight string, silencers, good weight arrow, and good tune. I never used silencers in those days and would hunt with those bows without them now.
I get all of my bows as quiet as possible. Bow hush and hush puppies set at the 1/4 marks on the string and a heavy arrow. The places I hunt in Texas, even with my quiet bows and a relaxed deer, 9 times out of ten they will duck, you have to aim low or you will shoot over them because they come unglued at the shot, not sure what they hear but it is not my bow, and I use 4" 4 fletch so I do not get much noise from the fletch in flight, I have heard 5" fletch arrows and they make some noise, ask anyone who has ever hunted central Texas deer at Solana. If my bow was loud I would never hit a deer I do not care how low I aimed. Quiet works.
I think quiet is important as it helps to reduce extra stimuli from the game we are after.
Heightened awareness of wild animals. Motion from the hunter, bow and arrow. Noise from the hunter, bow and arrow all contribute to the natural instinct to flinch, duck, crouch or whatever you want to call it.
We have all experienced it ourselves. An insect buzzes our ear, or something thrown or falling off a shelf. The first reaction is to flinch, or duck.
I do everything I can to decrease the motion and noise from myself, bow and arrow.
When it all comes together, you are shooting at an unaware animal, that doesn't know what just zipped through it's vitals and goes down in sight.
Quiet is usually the result of a well tuned, well tillered bow from my experience...though I'm a longbow shooter. I'm not a recurve guy.
I got 2 shots at a Tom today because my bow is so quiet. I love a quiet bow.
Really nice when you pass an arrow through a deer and there is no reaction from the animal. Nothing. Just stand or continue walking until they stumble sideways and fall. Combination of a few things, such as a quiet bow, quiet arrow, broadhead, no bones being hit, animal alertness......Love a quiet bow and quiet arrow.
I like my bow quiet, I think people can take anything to the extreme (usually speed). I really need every advantage I can get!
Agree with all who have responded "love quiet". If nothing else, to me it represents a well tuned & balanced setup. It's what I seek and enjoy shooting.
Kris
I'll answer like I feel the value of the thread topic is. I put fancy fur silencers, Prefer mink, or Beaver, ect on my strings simply because it looks so cool. I would not feel real trady , is that a real word? without them as a finishing touch.
Is it necessary? I could say my bows are so quiet I don't need silencers. Oh , I have said that already . but If I didn't have them fluffs on there then my bow would feel undressed and how could I tell which way the wind is blowing .
Someone said a relaxed animal won't jump the sound. Hmmm. I had a bull elk with his head turned away from me at 10 yards jump at the shot so fast I thought I had hilled him. Found my arrow in perfect alignment sticking in a dead log in back of where he was standing without a spec of blood on it. I was already tasting the steaks. I followed him about a quarter of a mile but not one drop of blood. This happened so fast it completely fooled my eyes. You could not believe an animal could move that fast.
I then walked back to the spot. Sat down wondering how that could happen and killed a huge cow about 15 minutes after the experience with the bull.
God bless you all, Steve
I like my bows as quiet as I can get them for me, any benefit in a hunting situation is only a side benefit.