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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Nala on May 20, 2013, 12:46:00 AM

Title: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Nala on May 20, 2013, 12:46:00 AM
Hey all,

Me and a couple online people have a bit of a dispute and I know someone on here can give me the right answer.

We were talking about taking animals that aren't listed in the Game and Fish Regs and whether it is legal to kill them or not.

As an example, lets say you are sitting in your tree stand with your bow in OHIO and you hear a noise and under you suddenly walks an OSTRICH or a Kangaroo, could you legally take it?

I say you can, they are trying to say that virtually every state has provisions in their hunting codes that only animals with legally established season, size limit, bag limit, etc) may be "taken" (ie hunted). All other critters are off limits.


Who would you say is correct?  I don't think I have ever read in the regs from Ohio where I used to live for over 20 years anything like that where only animals with established seasons, etc, could be taken.  Maybe I missed it though.

Settle this please.

Thank you for the help.

Nalajr
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: WINDTALKER on May 20, 2013, 01:05:00 AM
Not sure about every place but I was told by a game warden once concerning turkeys that were clearly not of the wild type(wild-heritage breed cross). That they would be considered private property and off limits to shoot with out permission. So I'd say no ostrich hunting unless it was feral ostrich. On the other hand I once inquired about killing local rattlesnakes and was told by another warden that unless protected federally or by some other state law that you only needed a hunting license to take for personnel use any non-game animal. Just my experiences here in Oregon, hope it helps. Art
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: boznarras on May 20, 2013, 01:19:00 AM
Don't know how it is elsewhere, but a few years ago there was a case here that showed taking species not covered in the regs is illegal in Alaska.
We had a cougar show up, presumably after swimming across from island to island from the mainland. Normally we don't have cougar in southeast Alaska. A local shot it and brought it to town. He was cited by the game warden, and the cat was confiscated.
Apparently if there is no specified open season, you can't legally take an animal.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Nala on May 20, 2013, 01:32:00 AM
WOW!!

I would've thought it would be A-OK in Alaska.  Their game regs are like a BIG CITY PHONEBOOK.  I can't imagine that they missed covering something in that tome.

I guess I would've thought that if anything wondering into your sphere while hunting and it isn't listed in the regs or naturally isn't an ENDANGERED SPECIES, it would be OK to take it.  That's why I used the Ostrich or Kangaroo reference.

I'm gonna call the Texas Game and Fish and see what they have to say.

Thanks all.

Nalajr
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: old_goat2 on May 20, 2013, 01:53:00 AM
I think some of it dependes on if they are a native or non-native species. And I'm talking, native to North America, not a particular state as in the Alaska/Cougar example above. And then as stated, I'm sure it varies state to state! Someplace I used to live and I think it was Texas where there's lots of exotics, if you seen say for instance an Axis Deer, it was fair game, but being my memory is suspect, better call the DNR like you said!
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Thumper Dunker on May 20, 2013, 01:54:00 AM
In california you can take non game animals unles they are listed as protected. But you canot take some ones live stock. I would think if I seen an ostrich it would be someones pet.We have so many wacy laws in this dumb state you do not know whats legal and whats not any more. Each state going to be a little or a lot difrent.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Arkansas Osage on May 20, 2013, 03:28:00 AM
In arkansas the game and fish regulations specifically say if an animal does not have a hunting season it is illegal to kill it and they use a snake as an example. Which sucks because although the game and fish of arkansas won't recognize them there are a few scattered mountain lions throughout the northern part of the state. Granted, some of these are mountain lions that have escaped captivity (many meth cookers keep them to release during a bust) and they may or may not be declawed, but many people swear there is a breeding population. If one of these animals was to be in range of a hunter, bow or gun, it would be illegal to kill it because in Arkansas it is not recognized as a game animal with a defined season.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: TSHOOTER on May 20, 2013, 04:17:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Arkansas Osage:
(many meth cookers keep them to release during a bust)
:saywhat:
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: bicster on May 20, 2013, 04:20:00 AM
Go a step farther and get an email response. That way you have proof of what you are wanting to do is okay. I am talking about chipmunks or other small animals too.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: BAK on May 20, 2013, 07:16:00 AM
We have no season in Iowa for Cougar.  Hunter took one a year or two back out of a tree after checking with the DNR via cell phone.  He was told that if there was no season on the animal it had no protection and could be hunted.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Whip on May 20, 2013, 07:46:00 AM
I'm sure that the answer varies considerably from state to state depending on exactly how the regulations are worded.  Here in WI, there is a list of protected species for mammals, reptiles, and birds.  (All wild birds are protected unless specifically mentioned in the regulations)
If an animal is not specifically mentioned in the regulations and is not otherwise endangered, threatened, or protected, it is legal to shoot.
You had better know what is or isn't on the list.  

And most important of all, don't base your decision on what you read from someone else's opinion on the internet.  Look up your own states regulations and read and understand them completely.

I know your discussion was probably more for the sake of argument than a real question, but I would also wonder what the purpose of shooting an animal would be.  Killing something just because it is legal is not enough in my mind.  Would you eat it, or is it an invasive species of some kind?  

A number of years ago there actually was a kangaroo captured not too far from where I live.  They never did figure out where it came from, and it went to a zoo somewhere I believe.  But if it had walked by my tree stand before being caught, I can't imagine that I would have killed it on sight   just because I could.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: dragonheart on May 20, 2013, 07:58:00 AM
If you see Bigfoot, go ahead and take him.  You will be able to afford the legal fees.     :laughing:
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Zack Harris on May 20, 2013, 08:18:00 AM
I had a discussion about this with an Ohio DNR officer a few years ago.  I was telling him about an Elk I'd seen in a hay field mixed in with a bunch of deer.
He said they got occasional calls about it and that it probably escaped from a farm.  Anyway, he told me that it WOULD be legal to shoot an elk in Ohio since they are not considered a game species in the state and there are no regulations regarding them.
Not sure it's quite so cut and dry though.  You wouldn't be in violation of any game laws, but might face some kind of civil liability for shooting someones' escaped "livestock".
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Bowhunter4life on May 20, 2013, 09:17:00 AM
In most states it is illegal to shoot non-game animals (animals without a defined season)...  In my thinking, I would have to assume that it was the property of someone and has gotten loose...  The Ostrich/Kangaroo reference wouldn't be much different then say a Cow/Llama/Sheep/Goat/Horse in most states... But, Zoo animals do get loose from time to time so some strange instances could be presented...  

I grew up in Southern Minnesota, and one year there was an Elk that was seen often in a local farmers alfalfa field... (not a native animal to the area, or at least for a very long time...) Someone shot it during the hunting season, and he did get cited for doing so... and got his picture in the local paper.  Not sure where the Elk came from, but most likely from a Zoo type operation.

Personally I wouldn't shoot something I'm not hunting just because the opportunity arises...
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: beaver#1 on May 20, 2013, 09:32:00 AM
In Texas you can kill any animal that is not originally from this state as long a it not protected. Just have to have a hunting license.  I think elk are even on our list of foreign animals.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: JimB on May 20, 2013, 09:42:00 AM
Nala,I think you are going to find that you are both correct,depending on state.Some states will specifically state that if there is no season,they can't be taken.As far as them saying "virtually all states",I doubt that very much.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Jeff Hren-Renegade on May 20, 2013, 09:56:00 AM
That question has Come up in Michigan recentley with Cougar. It Is Illegal to Kill them weather in the regs or not. That being said for a long time there was nothing in the regs about feral pigs but they encouraged Killing of them.!
i would imagine like most states they seem to like leaving gray areas & leave it up to the field officer if he feels like writing a Ticket.
Also in MI the regs say if it is a escaped animal from a Game farm. the Farm Has 24hrs to recapture the animal after that it is considered fair game. But depending on which DNR officer you talk to that is up for interputation.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: monterey on May 20, 2013, 10:17:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by beaver#1:
In Texas you can kill any animal that is not originally from this state as long a it not protected. Just have to have a hunting license.  I think elk are even on our list of foreign animals.
That's how it was explained to me when in Texas.  Was told there is no closed season on elephant!  :eek:  

The rancher we were hunting hogs with killed an emu on his ranch and made jerky out of it.  Asked him why and he said "cause it was trespassin".  And that there is how it is done in texas.  :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Mike Mecredy on May 20, 2013, 10:21:00 AM
In Idaho, if you are on public land and an exotic animal that doesn't belong there happens by it's legal to kill it.  (Sheep, goats, horses, cows, etc. are the exception of course)
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: DoubleB20 on May 20, 2013, 10:25:00 AM
Here's the Texas Scoop on Non-Game Animals. Depends on if the animal is on public vs private property.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/fish_hunt/hunt/nongame/
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: MTArrowLauncher on May 20, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
In MT there are a lot of animals without a season/unregulated that you can kill, including any exotic or feral animals . Pretty much only Big game, Fur Bearers, and upland/waterfowl are regulated
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: eidsvolling on May 20, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Free legal advice on the Internet is worth exactly what you pay for it. Free advice from a law enforcement officer is worth only slightly more – see a discussion of the federal situation at  http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm02055.htm.  Remember also that there are fifty states with their own legal views on the matter.

If you want to know what's legal to shoot, read the statutes and regulations of the state in question. If you have some doubt after that, find a lawyer with knowledge of the matter. Or if you choose not to do those things, ask your forum buddies to chip in for your defense after the fact ...
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: eidsvolling on May 20, 2013, 10:58:00 AM
Sorry, I messed up the link in that last post. Here it is:  Public Authority Defense  (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm02055.htm)
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: ChuckC on May 20, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
Yeah, every state has their rules.  They have seasons on game animals,  they name the non-game animals,  they name the protected animals and have some sort of statement about "other animals".

It has been thought of before and is covered by the written regulations.  Your job to read them.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: John Scifres on May 20, 2013, 01:05:00 PM
Shoot first.  Ask questions later.  That's my advice as a board certified internet attorney  :)

DISCLAIMER:  This internet legal advice is for entertainment purposes only.  Any resemblance to real legal advice, living or dead, is purely coincidental.  The Tradgang is in no way responsible for the views of this internet attorney.  Void where prohibited.  May cause serious side effects such as nausea, vomiting, incarceration, disowning by the trad community and loose bowels.  Consult your physician for any laughing lasting longer than 4 hours.  Your mileage may vary.  This internet attorney bears no responsibility for beer and/or milk damage to your computer equipment from it blowing out of your nose.  If you are currently rolling the floor laughing your ash off then please reread this disclaimer when you calm down to fully understand your legal rights.  And please no laughing out loud at work.  People will think you are weird.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: adeeden on May 20, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
Shoot first.  Ask questions later.  That's my advice as a board certified internet attorney   :)  

DISCLAIMER:  This internet legal advice is for entertainment purposes only.  Any resemblance to real legal advice, living or dead, is purely coincidental.  The Tradgang is in no way responsible for the views of this internet attorney.  Void where prohibited.  May cause serious side effects such as nausea, vomiting, incarceration, disowning by the trad community and loose bowels.  Consult your physician for any laughing lasting longer than 4 hours.  Your mileage may vary.  This internet attorney bears no responsibility for beer and/or milk damage to your computer equipment from it blowing out of your nyose.  If you are currently rolling the floor laughing your ash off then please reread this disclaimer when you calm down to fully understand your legal rights.  And please no laughing out loud at work.  People will think you are weird.
Best statement ever!
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: WINDTALKER on May 20, 2013, 10:24:00 PM
Dragonheart, don't shoot Bigfoot in Skamania county Washington it's been a felony since 1969. Even with the money and fame felonies suck
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: DamselflyFarm on May 20, 2013, 11:13:00 PM
I agree with WHIP—I'm not sure why and ethical hunther would shoot and kill an animal just for the heck of it. Whether it's legal or not.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: LimBender on May 21, 2013, 12:22:00 AM
Since this isn't very realistic - like a kangaroo - you are probably both right.  In some states they probably try to write the regs to cover everything (just like shooting a slingshot can be defined as discharge of a weapon in city regs).  In others, if it is not on the books and not specific, you can't be charged (think that is the case with cougar in Louisiana - LDWF didn't admit till recently they were out there).  That probably doesn't help much.  Most normal situations are probably covered by fur bearing, non-game animals, predators, special cases like exotics, non-native, migratory bird, etc.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Arkansas Osage on May 21, 2013, 12:32:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by TSHOOTER:
 
QuoteOriginally posted by Arkansas Osage:
(many meth cookers keep them to release during a bust)
:saywhat:  [/b]
I'm serious.

http://cougarrewilding.org/CougarNews/?p=374
"One of my buddies from the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette's high-rent district recently had a little fun with one of my columns that pointed out that methamphetamine makers in the Missouri Ozarks often keep mountain lions to discourage unwanted visitors, and to distract law enforcement personnel while they destroy evidence. When the meth chefs go to jail, their friends and family can't care for the cats, so they turn them loose."

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2008/mar/02/arkansas-sportsman-big-mountain-lion-kill-20080302/?print
"One of the most interesting theories that came from that workshop was the belief that methamphetamine makers were largely responsible for the proliferation of mountain lions in southern Missouri. Law enforcement authorities learned that meth chefs often obtain mountain lions from domestic breeders to discourage unwelcome visitors. Often, they keep the cats chained near the doors. When law enforcement officials arrive to serve a warrant or make an arrest, they first have to deal with an aggressive mountain lion, giving the lawbreaker time to flush or otherwise dispose of evidence.

When that person gets hauled off to jail, friends or family release the cat because they haven't the means nor desire to care for it."
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Skipmaster1 on May 21, 2013, 02:19:00 AM
We have had axis and fallow deer walking free around here. As well as kangaroos (really) across town. The DEC said they had no say in it, as they were escaped animals. They did say the FDA would have more to say on it. I was told that it wouldn't be illegal to shoot a ferral animal, but if someone claimed it as a pet or loose farm animal you could be in hot water. It's a real grey area!
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: centaur on May 21, 2013, 07:40:00 AM
We have a ranch here that raises yaks, and until they were finally heavily fenced, they were notorious  for escaping. I know a guy who rifle killed one on public land (I helped gut the thing, it was HUGE), and the local game warden told me that if one is off the ranch proper, go for it.  That would be quite the critter with a bow.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: Keefer on May 21, 2013, 07:57:00 AM
If it isn';t listed in my gamebook I just leave it be ..I just don't kill things for the sake of killing something but if I had to feed my family cause food was hard to come by then thar's called survival but as of now I just hunt what's legal and follow the LAW bookand all is good...
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: ursusmajor on May 21, 2013, 12:28:00 PM
I was told if it isn't in the regs book consider it illegal. I know here in MI we have several pieces of state property as well as federal land. Regs can differ on those which literaaly can be seperated by a 2 track.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: ChrisM on May 21, 2013, 02:29:00 PM
Beaver
In Texas you cann't kill a nonnative species unless there is an established ferrel population.  Killin an animal that got out is just like killing one of my cows.  If there is a ferrel population then they are fare game.  Oppossum, rabbits, and such are also fair game.  If the animal is a fur bearing animal like a coon, or beaver then you are also supposed to have a fur beares licence but most wardens won't get you on that unless you have a bunch of them.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: kennyb on May 21, 2013, 09:13:00 PM
Nala-I would say your friends are correct and you are wrong! In every state it cleary states what the big/small game animals are in that local. This is just my humble opinion from the data I have read over the years. Thanks.

Kenny     :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: dragonheart on May 21, 2013, 10:54:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by WINDTALKER:
Dragonheart, don't shoot Bigfoot in Skamania county Washington it's been a felony since 1969. Even with the money and fame felonies suck
I had no idea!    :eek:
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: GreyGoose on May 22, 2013, 09:15:00 AM
Had an incident in Maryland several years ago concerning a hunter who shot and killed (and ate) and emu, and posted in on youtube or some such.  There was a lot of chatter, including the county sheriff saying as long as the hunter had a valid license (he did) there was no problem.  I have to wonder though, whether its safe to assume an emu is feral as opposed to escaped farm stock, which would not be permissible to harvest.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: ronp on May 22, 2013, 09:28:00 AM
In NY you can legally hunt/kill numerous animals that do not have specific hunting seasons, and hunt them all year.  These include red squirrels, porcupines, woodchucks and a few different birds.  You just need a valid hunting license.
Title: Re: Can Someone Answer this Hunting Question for Me?
Post by: tarponnut on May 23, 2013, 07:48:00 AM
We have a red stag hind walking around our property at times(it's free range). I've seen it 3 times.It's far more skittish than the average whitetail(believe it or not).It's legal game according to the game warden.If it comes by within bow range it's getting shot.