Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Scott E on May 06, 2013, 08:30:00 PM
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I am a recent college grad, two days ago, and am trying to figure out my career path. I majored in writing and have interned for US Archer and World Archery.
This would be sometime down the road but...
My dream would be to own an archery related small business. The question is what type of business. Business' I'd like to do are custom bow building, arrow making or a retail shop.
I was wondering how many people actually make a full time living out of bow building or custom arrows?
I'm not afraid of hard work and not looking to get rich just need to make a living.
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I build bows full time. But first I did a 20 year hitch with the Air Force. That pension suppliments my income.
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RMSG here in denver does a good job I believe. Why not own a little shop and figure out a way to do guiding out of it as well? Kinda like those fly fishing shops that offer float trips. You'll of course need land or get certified and guide in wilderness areas that require one. Just food for thought...
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I like building bows, but I don't sell them - just for me, family, and friends. It would be a tough business to break into and there are more custom bowyers today than ever before, so the market is pretty saturated. Most bowyers either have a supplemental income (like Mike above), have another job, or have a spouse with a good job. The same is probably true for arrowsmiths. I'm not trying to crush your dreams, but just pointing out the realities. Do you have any experience building bows/arrows? Your best bet would be to get a traditional type job and start building bows/arrows/or retail on the side for fun. Maybe you could turn it into a business and maybe you can build it up to the point you can make a living at it. Good luck!
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John aka jsweka,, nailed it. My two best friends have either designed and built one of the best broadheads out there or build (limited) my favorite longbow. Tough to make a fulltime living in Trad.
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Whatever you do, you will really have to diversify, very little profit margin in arrows, that's what I've heard from people that have tried to do what your doing. Doing consignment sales via store front and like the big auction sight could be the way you make up differences. Big web presence is also essential, sponsorships on here and other forums is big, especially if you make your presence known on the threads. Locating someplace with low overhead is probably the biggest key to success. I think coming out with your own line of products is a big positive also. Good Luck, hope it works for you, but I've always heard, "be careful turning your hobby into a job"!!!
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I applaud your desire to get into your own business and suggest you don't limit your choices to archery. There are lots of opportunities out there for energetic people who want to work; get some serious training under your belt and keep your eyes open as you move along. :thumbsup:
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lots of food for thought. I totally agree with easing into it and starting as a hobby business on the side. The job market is terrible for recent college grads and working at a desk isn't a career I really want. But in the mean time I'll save up money and to start my business.
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When I was younger and thinking of careers the advice I was given was to not pick a job that's your hobby because then your hobby becomes work...
That's retarded.
You will spend the majority of your adult life working so why not make it something you're passionate about. In so doing you cultivate your drive, and the success will follow. You most likely wont be "rich" from a career in trad, kinda a niche group, but there is something to be said for waking up every day and doing what you love.
As mentioned you will need supplemental income, especially in the beginning. Find pride in work, any work but keep the end goal in sight by choosing what work allows you the freedom to keep moving towards that goal.
Good luck.
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Very few outfitters make a living just outfitting, if that might be what you are considering. Most of them that I know, do it because they like to, in addition to their other job, or are semi-retired, having made a living in some other line of work.
And that describes our business too. It's not as lucrative as one might think.
Irv Eichorst
www.truesouthadventures.com (http://www.truesouthadventures.com)
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I like Mike at Mad Dog did 25 years as a Deputy Sheriff. Retired and started Legends Bows and now im passing it to my son Bryce. Its been a good road. The shop is here on the ranch so im never to far away.
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Seems hard to make a living in archery. My uncles friend owns a bow shop and is still a full time engineer at my uncles civil engineering company. Most the workers at the bow shop have another full time job as well.
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I made a living for ten years as a whitewater rafting guide and video kayaker. It was a wonderful way of life but it got difficult when I got married and bought a house. During the summers I made good money and the winters we just struggled to survive as my work during the winters was substitute teaching and other odd jobs. I see you are from Virginia. You may want to look into training to guide on the New and Gauley rivers of West Virginia so you would have a summer job then you could work on your trad products during the winter months.
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Traditional Archery Entrepreneur would be tough to make a living. It is only 20% of the Archery Market. Building your own Products will help in Profits. Dealer programs are tough and 3 Rivers and Kustom King do a good job in the market. Alot of Trad customers make their own stuff so loyalty to a retailer is a tough job. Price seems to be a driving force in purchases as support of made in China and other overseas markets have taken control of most Americans wallets. That will not change anytime soon so low end inventory is where you would want to be. Low overhead is key, a good web site for a larger market, mobile trailer good for Archery Shoots but even at Archery shoots sales are low but visiblity high for a possible sale later. Network like crazy and you may make a living at something you like to do. Maybe the economy will pick up again and the market will be more robust. But right now it it hard to even sell a used Bow and equipment in the classifieds here on Trad Gang. It was easier to do 5 years ago. But hey go for it! Many Americans are stuck in jobs for the dollars/insurance and are a unhappy crowd.
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There's some truth to "what they say" about turning your hobby into a business. Sometimes archery just feels like my job. But after I ponder about it a while I feel fortunate to be able to do it for a living.
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whatever you do, plan to make time for yourself and the people and things you love. I managed an airport where they raced airplanes in September. Our deer archery season was in August, and I had too many loose ends (cannons) running around the place in August getting ready that I seldom got o bow hunt. It is odd, but your work can overtake your life....
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Making a living in the archery business can be tough.
I wouldn't want to tell you what to do, but I will offer my insight. I have been down the retail road before, with my own archery shop. It was not a traditional only shop, but I feel the experience is still relevant. The retail margins in an archery shop are pretty low, you are doing really well if you can clear 30% on small stuff and 15-20% on larger items. That may sound good, but it really doesn't leave a whole lot on the table for paying yourself, any employees you may have, and the bills. Also keep in mind that as a smaller shop, you will get a higher price for wholesale than the Cabellas/bass pro/Scheels of the world.
Another concern I would have about a trad dominated archery shop is bow sales. Most of the high end bows are custom jobs being built to a person’s exact specification. That just doesn't happen in the compound world; infact compound manufactures don’t sell directly, and they set up protected territories for their dealers. This means you are going to be missing out on big ticket sales where the bow is purchased directly from the manufacturer.
If it were me:
I would look at using your unique perspective as a hunter to see if there are any unmet needs in the industry for which you could develop a product. This is no easy task though; you can come up with the best mousetrap ever devised and watch it fall flat if you don’t know how to market it or get it into the correct retail outlets.
Andy.
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My dad ran a very successful archery shop 40 years ago, but got out of the business when the big catalog-era started rolling in. He was very frustrated by the folks who bought cheap junk or mismatched equipment and then brought it to him to fix. It is pretty common for people to try to save money by cutting the cost of a professional's involvement out of the equation.
Another significant consideration is the financial management of the business. I have a degree in business administration and work in accounting, and do a bit of bookkeeping on the side for some small businesses... and I am amazed at how easy it is for business owners to make terrible decisions due to not understanding business principles and accounting. Most small businesses fail because the owners didn't know enough about how to establish, market, and manage their business. Understanding how to project costs and revenues -- and how to cover those costs and make a real profit -- can be pretty complex. It can be done, but if it were free for the taking, everyone would be doing it, and would have a success story.
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The interesting thing is that my dad never sold his business, and when he shut it down, he kept all of his inventory. For the past 30 years or so, the bowhunters in the family have had a lot of feathers, shafts, inserts, broadheads, tabs, armguards, gloves, etc., to use when hunting.
Dad passed away a few years ago, and since then I have become more involved in trad archery. I have toyed with the idea of starting a small archery business, and have a significant amount of inventory that I could start off with, right away. But I've decided against it, considering the costs, economies of scale, tight competition, the time it would take to run it, and the relatively small market that so many other 'archery entrepreneurs' are already tapped into.
I say that if you know how, and are able to make it work, go for it! But I think it would be tough... too tough for me, at least.
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Scott, I have a great deal of respect for your desire to start a small business in archery. I do however think it is a tough business to be in.
Hard to get rich(or just get by) in an area that is satureated with competition, and is tailored to a small portion of the market. Bowhunters are a minority of the population and trad bowhunters are a minority of that.
If I were going to start a business I'd be making waterbottles ... everybody drinks water ... Thats just an example.
But good luck either way ... How about using that writing degree and writing archery/hunting/wilderness books?
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Thank you all so much for the feedback. I know the business is tough but I'm going to give it a shot someday. I've been thinking about all the things I can do in archery to make a living and here is my list:
Writing-I've done writing for the ATA, World Archery and USA Archery. I have contacts and if a job somewhere opened up I could possibly get it.
Coaching-I have experience shooting olympic recurve, compound target, 3D and of course trad and I'm a level 3 coach for USA Archery.
Retail-I can make arrows, splice, dip, crest. I don't think a brick and mortar shop is something I'd want to do but online is something I would consider.
I have some ideas and prototypes for different archery products but those are all works in progress.
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Hey man most of the pro shops around me sell not only archery gear but guns as well and sometime outdoor gear in general. Archery is a initial a niche market but if you diversify a bit money cane be made.
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The last 2 years of mine have been spent starting up a restaurant. I have been fortunate and I have been very successful with it. The One thing I would do recommend would be to do good market research to understand what products or services that people really need. Next I would go to your local university's small business development center and talk with them. There is a lot of free business advice out there that will help you with your business plan. It's tough out there with the economy but people are finding new ways to make it work. I have a few friends in the hunting and fishing business. It seems that most of them are ether super specialized or are a jack of all trades. One of my friends has a fishing show, he also is the editor for a magazine, sales bass boats, fishing rods, advertising, etc... etc... to make it work. I say go for it you never know until you do it.
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I would diversify as much as possible.
I teach school full-time(wish I was off in fall instead of summer,lol), guide anglers and bowhunters part-time, sell some artwork(I'm an art teacher),sell some flies(fly guide),etc.
I DO think there is room for more competition in archery, especially Trad archery. It's a small market but the people are as loyal as loyal gets, customers often become life-long friends.
I really think TV may be the way to go (to make real money). I have a friend filming a new show for a national audience right now.I think TV audiences would really enjoy watching a young traditional archer climb the ropes. There's a very popular show about duck hunters, of all things, that gets a very diverese group of viewers.Look at the popularity of Swamp People,too! The movie, "A River Runs Through It" in the 1990's led to an explosion of new flyfishers(and sales).
It can and should happen to traditional archery.
There are several guys in our midst(Bill Langer for one) that should be on a national stage and have what it takes to draw an audience.Clean cut, laid back, family oriented, like-able people.(I think we've seen enough beer bellied, goateed, ball cap wearing, wheel bow shooting,camo selling, long shot taking, can barely string a sentence together types for one lifetime, but I digress.)
I say go for it.
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If you would like to end up with a million dollars from your archery business start out with two. :smileystooges:
That was the advice given to me :knothead:
:goldtooth:
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I worked for five years at the largest independent outdoor retailer in the country. I am 100% convinced that the outdoor retailers, large and small, constantly miss a golden opportunity to sell to the MAJORITY of the population that has two X chromosomes instead of an X and a Y.
Think about it for a minute: Shooting a bow is inherently fun! I hear that many times in casual conversation with women who have tried it at some point. But they often get little encouragement to get involved in archery and bowhunting.
Walk into any outdoor retailer and imagine you're a woman as you watch the staff and customers. Now go home, sit down and write a business plan to meet the need that you saw was not being met.
As a vital part of marketing your new woman-oriented business, spend whatever you can afford to sponsor the "Becoming An Outdoorswoman" program in your state. Volunteer to serve as an instructor for them. I've done that, and it was a gas.
EDIT: I'd never own an archery business without an indoor range. If they come through the door to shoot, you've already accomplished the major marketing task of any retailer - getting them on the premises. Now sell them something while they've got their minds on archery.
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You have been given a lot of decent advice already. It is an extremely hard thing to do what you wish. What it all boils down to is what are you willing to live on, how hard are you willing to work at making clients happy and who else may be dependent on your dream? Anything is possible if you can make all of the sacrifices and have the fortitude to see it all through.
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You have been given a lot of decent advice already. It is an extremely hard thing to do what you wish. What it all boils down to is what are you willing to live on, how hard are you willing to work at making clients happy and who else may be dependent on your dream? Anything is possible if you can make all of the sacrifices and have the fortitude to see it all through.
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Look at the Kuiu business model. I think clothing is the business to be in. Products wear out and customer loyalty exists. Also the market is huge. There are few people developing technical hunting clothing right now and market is rapidly growing. It wouldn't be to late to get in the game there. My 2 cents.
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I agree with almost all of the posts in this thread . . .even the ones that don't agree with each other.
That said, I will offer one caution about making your avocation your vocation. I have done this with two different careers . .diving and martial arts. I experienced the pros and cons outlined above. I have also witnessed others get into and out of those businesses for a variety of reasons.
Unfortunately, I also saw a few "good" people go "bad" and soil not only their personal reputation, but the image of the career/hobby/sport they once loved. Keep your integrity in tact, and you will be successful regardless of the profit/loss statement.
Always be a straight shooter....
Kingsnake :archer2:
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sorry . . .I meant "intact" . . .one word.
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Sorry... for some reason my phone just re-posted something I added to this thread weeks ago! ????
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So far the replies I felt that nailed it best were Kimba's (Lonewolf73), Eidsvolling, and Kingsnake. All good advice, and definitely beware making your hobbby/love your job.
I'm young like you and I also daydream about starting a business in trad archery. I'm a firefighter, so 2 of every three days I have off and pursue secondary income. I have one 'full time' part-time job at a hospital and also do a little free-lance (formerly full time) classic car resto and my own artwork. I'm kind of one of those jack of all trades types, that's why I think I fit well into being a firefighter, but opening a small business in a niche that I love like trad archery would really be awesome to attain some measure of freedom beyond my public service career. I'd say that that could be had pursuing my artwork, but that is currently also a 'niche's niche'--I do large abstract paintings and those are a limited fine arts market and each one is a high dollar item, so sales are few and far between, not enough to make any kind of a living off yet.
I have strongly considered doing outdoor/archery themed realistic paintings under another name (don't want to affect my success in the high-art arena...kinda like doing high fashion but then selling jeans) but just not sure that kind of art is my thing. I could try it?
You guys think there's any market for trad archery paintings??
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I think there's people who would be interested in good trad archery paintings. I think they are interesting, and there are folks who are a lot more 'purist' than I am that would likely be very interested.
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Become a Firefighter in your city or town. I know a few Firefighters and they all have side jobs. They typically work 24 on 24 on 48 off. Even while they are working, there is spare time to do something else.
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Young man, you must have real understanding parents. I'd come delaminated my son told me that after 4 years of school.
Good luck.
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Are there any specific product needs that are not being filled currently in the market that you guys can think of?