I've been looking at some of the new broadheads on the market. I couldn't help but notice that some of them are $20 each or more.
I've always shot 160 snuffers, magnus 1 , or the big zwickey. I've never lost an animal that I thought the broadhead was to blame. I,ve always been happy with those heads, but was curious what others thought. Is there really that much difference?
I don't know about there being that much of a difference.....sharp is sharp and sharp in the right spot is what counts. I've used Magnus and Zwickey 2 blades for 15+ years with very good "luck", but last year I tried some of the Centaur Big Game heads, which are expensive in my opinion. I had very good experiences with them on game as well.......but they were sharp and put in the right place.
Lots of people seem to love those german kenetic silver flames (not the alaskan bowhunters supply version). Suppose to come extremely sharp and last a long time as long as you dont lose your arrow.
To much for my blood though.
Do you know what is wrong with Zwickey broadheads?
Because you pay more doesn't mean you are getting anything better, just more expensive. The old Bear heads, magnus, and zwickey have always worked for a fair price(depending on where you bought them!)Any broadhead will get the job done provided the edge is hair popping sharp. There are a few folks that would rather pull out their wallet then a whet stone.
As far as I can tell the expensive ones are pre-sharpened and many arrive ready to hunt. For some that is a good deal-others will not see the benefit.
There are several things to consider. First is the why? That really boils down to a broadhead that is designed better, stronger, and with higher strength steel. Sure the old Bear heads killed a lot of game but they were also notorious for curling the tip when it hit bone.
Secondly is how is that design manufactured, strickly stamped and spot welded out of mild steel or totally machined out of 440 stainless or high carbon cold steel.
The third item is the economies of scale. If one is makeing a broadhead and can turn on the machine and make 100,000 or 500,000 at a time the set up for that machine and all the process in that cell only happen once. If you are a new guy on the block - even with the best design you can't possibly run that many broadheads at a time or the inventory costs would sink you.
Suppose you do stamp blades out of steel, then full length braze, then heat treat, then weed out the warped ones (always happens with heat treating), then paint or coat, then do an initial grind and then if you are offering presharpened blades a honing operation. On top of that is some form of quality control, packaging, shipping, etc.
Sure they can get expensive but the guys making premium heads like the Tuffhead, Abower, etc. have a ton of money invested in just equipment on top of carrying inventory. If they could make 100's of thousands at a time the price would drop quite a bit - but until more hunters buy their products they are stuck with a low volume, and high cost operation.
I retired after 32 years selling custom steel components and after knowing what goes into some of these premium broadheads I wonder how the sell so cheap.
No. I have used the big zwickeys and magnus 1 for decades. I have been messing around with single bevel grizzlies. I changed last year to try something new. But the old ones work good. The expensive ones may be worth it for all the time involved to make them, but I don't think they are that much better. You still have to make the shot. The blade still has to be sharp. If you lose one of those things it puts a dent in your wallet. So to some they are the only ones to use, but for me I will sharpen my own.Gary
QuoteOriginally posted by Pete McMiller:
I wonder how the sell so cheap.
I agree. I use to feel the same way with arrows until I made a set then I wondered how anyone could make a living off of it.
:dunno:
There is nothing wrong with many of the old standbys and a lot right but some would like to have the option to see what works best for them and are willing and able to pay for it. Others couldn't put an edge on to save their life and for others it's a time factor where they can make more putting in some overtime and buying a sharp out of package item as oppose to doing it themselves.
For many the trad experience is about doing as much as you can yourself and others are not there yet, their lifestyle may not allow it.
So no they arnt that much better in the physical performance sence but for some, yes in the experience they get from some of the other options that generally aren't inexpensive in a niche market.
I use Woodsman and Zwickeys these days. If I ever bought a broadhead that was razor sharp out of the package I would still have to sharpen it before I hunt with it because I shoot every broadhead before I hunt with them.
there is nothing wrong with either its all in what you can afford,I shoot run of the mill heads.bears,ace,stingers.they work great they may requier a little more maintance.the high dollar heads are better materials but one could say possibally over built for deer an smaller game.however I would choose to shoot the high dollar head on larger game animals like bear elk an african game.
The one broadhead I was very glad to pay more for was the Grizzly/Kodiaks by Zipper. I can get the one's being produced now soo sharp it's just unreal. That's all due to the grind i'm sure. Before when I tried to sharpen the old "cheap" grizzlies it was useless. I worked on one on the KME for my dad for about 2 weeks and got 1 half prettty dang sharp haha.
The Tuff heads are another I believe is worth the $$. Unless you loose them they probably arn't going to break to easy.
Luckilly I bought all the Magnus 1s, and STOS before the prices went up too much although I woudln't hesitate to pay for a broadhead I had confidence in.
Great post guys... pete thanks for your thoughts, that was a great Read! I wondered exactly what you did Todd, so I started watching the classified section for used heads... I've now bought many high dollar Broadheads just to put my hands on them and see what they are like. I even tried to buy a single 300gr Tough Head that someone would put through an Elephant! I wanted to see and I have to say i'm impressed with what's out there today being made. Options are.fun, no one needs to be right or wrong.
Ive shot both types of broad head from $33.00 a piece Silver Flames to $4.00 each Ace. Both killed critters straight up, x eyed, stone dead. Ive been just as satisfied with each type of head. I cant explain but I'll shoot each price ranged head again. I just dig equipment and sharp steel in general. I'll go so far as to call myself a steel afficianado, I just like sharp, deadly steel. :rolleyes:
I shoot German Kinetics silver flames, they start very sharp and stay very sharp for a long time, but are very pricy. I buy mostly for the weight, sharpness lasting quality and flight(220 grains). I have some cheaper heads but find I always go back to these. They shoot good for me and I feel very confident in them. to me they are worth it others may find they are not.
Yup, get'em sharp and put'em where they need to be and they will all kill well. But some of the pricier ones (VPA 3 is my fave) will last a lifetime if I dont loose it, I dont think you can hurt a VPA head.
Eric
Whatever head gives you the most confidence at the "moment of truth" is what you should shoot. Whether it's a $4.00 head or a $30.00 head makes little difference.
I shoot Zwickey heads primarily. Have tried a lot of others but I keep coming back to them. They are inexpensive and that affords me the luxury of practicing with them a lot and being able to sharpen them over and over again. If I lose one or bend one up, no huge loss.
The sharp broadhead is the most important piece of equipment we take to the field whether we launch them from $75.00 garage sale bows or $1400.00 Custom Creations.
Practice with them often and keep em sharp, Trap
Boils down to how much money an individual wants to spend and kudos to a manufacturer for doing the right marketing to get someone to buy their broadheads no matter what the price.
I don't understand the "no need to sharpen" reason for buying super expensive heads. Sharpening is one of the basic skills a bowhunter needs to know how to do. What do you do when your knife gets dull? - Throw it away and buy new?
There is absolutely a difference between inexpensive heads and the new expensive ones. The cheaper ones work just fine with perfect shots, especially on smaller critters. If I'm hunting some big tough animals I want to have a head just as tough on the front. Look at the Magnus 2 blades, snuffers and woodsman. Fine heads, I killed a ton with them. But, they are notorious for bending tips. On a big animal that will reduce penetration. I'd rather pay more for a VPA and have it stay pristine for many kills. It's cheaper in the long run.
does anyone use stingers anymore,,, I don't hear them mentioned as much as I used too..
as far as broadhead,,, I say this if you are not capable of getting your broadheads insanely sharp then by all means spend the extra money on broadheads that will be delivered as sharp,,,,, if we are talking two blade heads the only difference can be from single and double bevels,, 3 blade heads = more tissue trama..
I'd rather put my money into the best strings and best arrows I can afford,,, and then put a sharp head on and if it spins true and gets sharp enough It has to work! my arrows have every type of head..
this may sound funny but with me I think I shoot better with regular broadheads because I could care less if I lose or ruin one,, when I had treesharks on I was worried I'd miss or lose one and I really think it messed up my concentration so I took them off and I don't even give the broadhead a second thought now when drawing an arrow back.
with all that being said though I'd love to see what those wide german kinetics look like on my arrows and I might just get a set,, maybe shoot the zwickey mor stinger 1st though the GK's are like jewelery for starring at when In the stand.
I use Zwickeys Black Diamonds on my wooden arrows and the fly like darts. But you need to keep sharp. I use "Steel Force" Hellfire 4 blade 150gr. on my carbons. They are available at 3Rivers. They fly like darts, great penetration, no whistling, decently priced and they come crazy sharp & they hold an edge. Steel Force has also came out with their "Traditional Series" line broad heads that come "glue-on" as well as "screw-on" that come in 135 to 300gr. that Im surely will be taking a closer look at some time soon.
I use VPA 3 blades and Magnus 2 or 4 blades.
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc B.:
I use Woodsman and Zwickeys these days. If I ever bought a broadhead that was razor sharp out of the package I would still have to sharpen it before I hunt with it because I shoot every broadhead before I hunt with them.
This is my feeling too, I've never gone hunting without shooting each head first, and that requires resharpening each one before it goes in the quiver.
I will say I much appreciate the better factory edge of the new Woodsman Elite over the original Wensel Woodsman. The original was a fine head after I wrestled with them on the big file and got the edges straight. The Elites just need a little touch up on the stones.
As far as price, with the few shots I launch at game in one year the cost of a broadhead is not very important to me. Many of the expensive heads are very tough and easily resharpenable. If not lost they should last for many years. Compared to what I spend on bows and carbon arrows, $15-$20 per head, or even the cost of Silver Flames seems reasonable although I have never tried the SF heads.
I would also like to add that SF heads are truly tough!! I have used them for about 3 years now and have nothing bad to say about them. I never had a tip bend up, even after hitting bone. I practice with a set,,,and hunt with another set. What it all boils down to me is shot placement along with sharpness. I find that SF helps me accomplish both. And they come at a reasonable price. A person can also read the reviews at 3rivers,,cabelas ect to help figure out what they're looking for as well.
Some heads are truly manufactured better than others. The Solid S30V broadheads for example use S30V steel. I'm not machinist, but looking online at different sites, the S30V steel is supposed to be higher quality-better edge retention, stronger and takes an edge better. They come from the factory leather stropped and take an edge well for sharpening.
Right on Trap. Expensive is not always better but sometimes is. . Those cheap ziwickys just bleed confidence for me. Something about that army green in my peripheral vision that just feels good.
I agree, shooting Zwikee for probably 30+ years and never had a problem. Just have to learn to sharpen them yourself. Nothing wrong with that - I sharpen my own knives and they are not much more difficult.
For a traditional broadhead such as Zwikee, but seems to fit very nicely with my traditional bow. I have taken - elk, moose, caribou, grizzley, deer, turkeys, javelina, etc with the Zwikee. I just have confidence in them - period!
I just purchased a half dozen Ace Standards...cheap in cost as to most other broadheads, but what a gem.
Upon first glance, you may think the quality is junk because of the appearance of the blade edges...looks like a Cross Cut saw. Because of this, I called the maufacturer and voiced my concern...little did I know.
They told me what I was looking at was the burr left behind and all I had to do was touch it up with my favorite sharpening tool.
Few minutes later using my KME and they were shaving.
Good quality at a most reasonable cost.
Pavan -----
Nothing !
I`ve shot lots of different broadheads through the years and I honestly don`t see how you could do better than an original Woodsman or zwickey no mercy.They don`t cost a lot either.RC
I hunt with moderately priced broad heads (Helix). However, none of them cost more than my shot is worth to me.
I go for pretty much in this order:
--Fixed blade
--Edge (can I keep em sharp)Penetration
--Penetration (I like 2-blades)
--Width (I like 1 1/8)
--Durability (does it hold up through the beast)
--Stability (especially point)
--Weight (Easy to manipulate as I tune)
--Do I know the maker
All else being equal if I'm friends with the maker I'm loyal to him.
I have some Kinetics -- cool head but I haven't hunted with them (the loyalty thing).
Lots of broad heads will get the job done. Frankly, I haven't used one for more than 30 years that wouldn't. The old green wasps in the 80's sure sucked and while I killed a lot of deer bears, and antelope, the Bear Razorheads fell apart in the animal a lot (the main blade).
Given the overall expense of a hunt, gas, travel, food, etc. etc. Just where does the cost of a broadhead fit in?
I love tinkering around with stuff,and not opposed to buying or accquiring the expensive heads,but when it comes down to it,Ace all day long for me.You can't beat the price to quality factor.No tears if IT'S lose or break one.There def is a quality difference with anything when you pay more,that's fact for anything from bows to vehicles to tools.
Still cant beat a good ol Magnus Snuffer,A Zwickey Delta or a 1964 Bear razor head.Howard Hill and Fred Bear would be proud of you for sticking with the girl who brung you to the dance.Yea,some of the new ones are pretty hot,but a tank of gas to get you were you need to get,just to hunt after tags,parking fees,etc.and a good lunch sure comes into play these days as well.Although the Simmons,Centaurs,German silver flames Etc are some cutting motorscooters,Ive still seen the big snuffers cut a hole you could stick 3 fingers into.My 2 cents turned into a nickel.Chanumpa out
I use Magnus and Zwickie most of the time and find they perform plenty good enough for Georgia whitetails. If I were chasing much bigger or dangerous game, some of the more expensive heads might have features that would make them more worthwhile. Right now, though, I feel my heads are very satisfactory.
I have used bears, zwickys, woodsmans, snuffers,simmons and a lot of ace's with good penetration, flight and short blood trails. I can sharpen bh's easily and as stated, placement of a sharp one is important. I have some of the new woodsmans elites, and they are one tough broadhead, did a great job on the game I have shot with them, but would never spend the money for new ones, got mine off folks from here and other sights in trades, much cheaper than new. I just dont see it being needed for deer, turkeys, and pigs or bears, ,mostly what I will be hunting the rest of my life. A lot of folks in todays society think they can spend their way to the top, whether it be high dollar rifles, scope and archery equipment of all types. Most folks today dont want to pay their dues, learn how to hunt, how to use their equipment or tune it to work best for them, trad folks seem to be the exception to this rule, for the most part. I can see where there are advantages to using the best you can get, but whether it is needed or wanted is two entirely different things. One guy at our local gun range last year was PO'd because I helped him mount a scope, and zero his rifle, shot a very tight group. He could not duplicate it, or come close, with his $3000 set up. When he asked why the rifle would not shoot for him, what was wrong with it, I explained that if he shot between 3000-5000 rounds a year doing load development, zeroing rifles, shooting varmints, long range competitions and offhand competition along with hunting, for over 25 years, I am sure the rifle would shoot just as well for him, in other words, what we learn to do as humans, is done so by a process, not an event, it takes time.
Well said Sam...it was good seeing you at the Tennessee Classic..as far as broadheads go I can't see myself spending the amount of money that the "expensive" heads cost. Thats just me though. I'm not saying one is better than the other. As others on here have said it all comes down to shot placement. I just make my own single bevels and that solves my paying for the "expensive" heads problem.
I too have shot a lot of different heads over the years. Snuffer, Magnus 1 and Stinger 4-blade, Zwickey Delta 4-blade, Zephyr Sasquatch, Centaur Big Game and Battle Axe, Simmons, Pearson Deadhead, Silverflame, and more that I can't remember off the top of my head... All will do the job as long as I do mine... and that goes from sharpness to making sure it spins true... Also putting it where it belongs.
I've settled into the VPA Penetrators (250 grain 1 1/4", and the Big Jim Big-3)... mostly for durability, but I haven't had a single one not spin true either... easy to sharpen, but mostly for the durability. As long as I can find it after I shoot it I can get it re-sharpened and ready to hunt... and I've hit some pretty solid stuff with them...
I am a GK Silverflame shooter. I have killed lots of animals with other heads as well. A well tuned setup and a scary sharp head put in the right spot is what matters. I shoot the GK's because I have great confidence in them and I can afford to dump the $$$ on them. I can say that I have seen several other heads break on hard or odd hits and I have had a few of those hits with the GK's and not had any issue like that.
I started shooting the GK's in 2008. When I tell people I shoot those heads, a lot of them ask me if they are worth the money. I tell them that to me they are but to them they may not be.
I have also never seen any broadhead as sharp as the GK's out of the package and as long as my arrow has no flaws they always spin true.
Bisch
sharp is sharp ...
I think I am kinda on the fence here. I have killed deer with just about every common traditional type head. The big wide Magnus 135 was my standard for years. But when I started shooting lighter bows, I had a few instances where the penetration was less than perfect. I also liked the big 200 grain ACE head, but in bows below 55#, penetration wasn't always there.
So recently.....my bows are back up to 60#, and I am experimenting with the Ashby theory type heads....and the not-cheap Tuffhead from Vintage Archery is my favorite so far. Quality of manufacture is so far beyond anything else available, I figure "why not?". They aren't stumping heads, but for shots on big game, why compromise?
Just my opinion....piles of big game killed with MUCH less expensive heads sorta proves me wrong... :bigsmyl:
There is room for both the older style steel broadheads - Zwicky,Magnus, stos etc and for the new high price heads as well.
The traditional carbon steel heads need more maintainence to keep sharp and most are not designed or heavy enough weight for Big Big game.
I use the high quality stainless heads for my big game hunts due to the fact I can get the weight I need along with strength. These are the Silver flames (German version)the 300Xtreme and the Tuff heads.
What really ticks me off is the copying of good quality heads the last couple of years. To take a high end exspensive head and copoy it but make it much cheaper is just pathetic in my mind. Most of these copy cats and cheap versions don't hold up worth a $hit if you really test them. The German Silver Flame is lite years ahead of the north american version in quality and even cheaper if you can believe that.
Buyer BEWARE of the high price heads out there! Do your research prior to spending $$$$ for crap. That said there are a few well worth the big $$$
Double post sorry.
I recently joked with the folks at Ace Archery Tackle that I was going to be their "pro staff". This would earn me the right to buy their products at list price and say hi to them at the many events where they set up a booth. They told me they needed a hero shot with an antelope and I am on a mission.
Here is what I like about Ace:
I can sharpen them easily (easiest head to sharpen since the Bear greenie).
Come in 100 to 200 grain with matching practice and hex blunt weights.
I like the friendly, quiet, humble folks who make and make/market them.
Lifetime guarantee - no questions.
Oldest name in broadheads - wonder why...
Their only drawback is that 6 cost less than 1 expensive broadhead. Then again, do you really want to shoot a $100 arrow into a pig in a swamp or a rabbit in a thicket?
I've tried lots of broadheads but i keep coming back to the Muzzy SS Phantoms. With the KME I can get them hair popping sharp and they hold a razors edge for a long time and don't rust or oxidize quickly. Just a great broadhead.
A couple of years ago I purchased Abowyer Brown Bear broadheads and I must say the quality is outstanding - razor sharpe from the start and built like a tank. When I need to purchase more broadheads I plan to return to Abowyer.
I'll make it really simple ... I've just got too many hobbies (one of them being saving money like Scrooge) to be spending big money on anything.
If I can get it for .02c less, I'm gonna do it.
Besides, if I lose a $100 arrow everytime I shoot a deer or a turkey, I'd be better off just going to the animal auction and buying a lamb or something ...
I don't just hunt for enjoyment, I do it for meat that I don't have to pay for ... keeping costs down is critical.
I have used about every common head out there in my 40 years of bow hunting. My problem with the cheaper carbon heads was that I couldn't keep them sharp.
I would set around during the week and sharpen them, put chap stick or what ever on them to help protect the edge then saturday when I pulled one out to hunt it was not as sharp as it had been. I tried about every thing. With a GK or Tuff head I get them sharp and they stay sharp
I think it's all about how you want to get there and what floats your boat.
A person could get an inexpensive recurve bow from the 70's (a Darton, Wing, Browning ect.), put together some inexpensive, but accurate aluminum arrows with basic broadhead (Magnus or Zwickey with adapter) and you will have everything you need to accurately kill a deer for under $200.
Bow $75
Arrows $50
Armguard/glove $30
Broadheads/adapters $40
That being said, here is a dozen arrows I just put together for myself:
Vintage Acme premium shafts from Ron LaClair $40
Tapering, staining, crown crest from Wilderness arrows $70
3 dozen chopped natural/dyed barred feathers from Turkey Flight Traditional $35
Total= 145/12= $12 per shaft plus $13 each for 3 blade Trailmaker Broadhead from Kustom King and now I've got a $25 single arrow. :eek:
That being said, it boils down to what makes you happy and what you enjoy and then what you want to spend. I would love to have an early 1970's wood handled A riser Bear takedown to hunt with and I suppose if I didn't do all the other purchases I've done in the last year for wool clothes, arrows, double bull blinds, treestands, other bows, Swarovski bino's, ect. and saved the $2,000-3,000 it takes now to get one I could have that bow. But I've enjoyed getting all the other things I've purchased. So, yes, less expensive stuff will get the job done-and do it effectively. Yet there there's a personal decision available to those who want to go beyond the basic need. That's the great thing about our sport.
Well said Trap.
Zwickeys for me and I save my blue ones to hunt with.
"They all work and none of them can kill anything." - Owen Jeffery
Blaino, Owen might be the most practical bowman I've ever been around. I still shoot his bows off and on and enjoy the blue collar attitude that both he and they exude. I can't see anything wrong with investing in a little extra quality/insurance on the business end of arrows as that's the part that actually does the deed when it's all said and done. If a man is shooting a bow that looks like a fine piece of furniture...costs him a couple grand and he waited many months for it to arrive...only to send a dull flimsy broadhead towards his quarry....well????
I shoot what I would kinda call the moderately high priced VPA 3 blades at around $12 a broadhead they aren't near as expensive as some of the other heads like ABS heads or Eclipse Werewolves but are a bit more than Ace or Zwickey. All I know is they are the best all around broadhead I have found for me as of yet.