What's the deal with the shafts? Anybody using these? and what do you think about them?
thanks
Jeff
I use them in both longbows and static tip recurves - I use 400's on bow weights from 50-60# and with point weights from 200-300 grain with no change in impact.
I have had better luck using the AeroSert outsert by Firenock in conjunction with a 1 1/8" piece of 5/32" solid aluminum rod as an internal footing. Makes them extremely strong!
Fly great and fast!
Where is the best place to buy these shafts? And what size feathers are you putting on them?
Jeff
I get mine from Lancaster - you can buy then in singles if you want to do some testing. I use 4" 3 fletch on mine. As these shafts are great for high and extreme FOC, very little is needed in rear. I am contemplating going to a smaller fletching on my next batch
Jeff,
Bob talked me into some of these. Have to say its pretty sweet shooting around 10 gpp with my 250 and 300 gr heads.
I bought the V-Force HV 350's. Really liking them so far.
I plan to get some of the 400's to try out.
Do you have to have a special insert to screw a broadhead on this shaft?
These shafts are real small . Are they hard to get used to?
I am shooting around 55 pounds, which shaft would be good?
Could you put a 5 inch feather or should I go smaller?
It seems like these shafts would for compound shooters. I have never shot anything this small.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Kruse:
Do you have to have a special insert to screw a broadhead on this shaft?
These shafts are real small . Are they hard to get used to?
I am shooting around 55 pounds, which shaft would be good?
Could you put a 5 inch feather or should I go smaller?
It seems like these shafts would for compound shooters. I have never shot anything this small.
Need out serts. The stainless are suppose to be good but are pricey. Firenock makes a nice outsert. I use them on my compound arrows and will probably switch to smaller diameter arrows for my longbow eventually
As Sawtooth mentioned, they use outserts. The stainless actually bend more than the aluminums in hard hits. The outsert by Firenock is much better, IMO.
400 spine will work great with your 55# set-up. If you read my earlier reply, you will see that I shoot them in bows from 50# - 60#'s. I pull just a tad over 29" and keep mine cut to 30" before insert.
Penetrate like crazy!
As far as fletching - 5" is not better, although you can use it - a little tight if you use a really tight helical. 4" works great, and if you are using a heavy point you can likely get by with even smaller.
My set-ups with AeroOutsert and 300 grain point weigh 560 grains and are 27% FOC. Fly great even at 40-45 yards. Hit like a sledgehammer! With the stainless rod footing that I mention above, I drop down to 275 grains up front for same effect, but one heck of a stumping arrow!
I boght some 400s. They fly amazing, fast and really penetrate. Far out penetrate the axis trads I had been shooting. I havnt tried the firenock outsert per Bobs recommendation but will. I plan on using these in Africa this summer. I believe these coupled with a wicked sharp VPA should work awesome.
I have been using the stainless outserts. My only issue is I have tried 3 different glues and hav had the outsert and point come out. What r u guys using?
I also want to work on a way to foot these. I think that would make then outstanding.
Jason,
That's another big advantage of the Firenock outsert - they don't pull out (or off) like the VAP inserts. As far as the VAP inserts go, I've had better luck lately with just plain Super Glue (not get type). Make sure to rough up inside of shaft as well as scuff paint on insert then wipe all down with alcohol before gluing.
rbcorbitt: You mention aluminum internal footing in one post and stainless steel in the other do you use both?
MAP
Only using the internal footing with the AeroSerts at moment. Really makes a strong arrow.
If I go back to VAP insert/outserts, I'll go back to external footing. On a hard angle hit, the VAP i/outserts tend to tear out the side of the shaft, so an external footing will reinforce this. Course, I'd have to lengthen my arrows about another 1" to accommodate the external footing.
Going to play around some with the Easton Injexions. They have a thicker shaft wall and a higher gpi. You can use the VAP i/outserts in them or FireNock offers the AeroSert to fit these as well.
Which model are you using (V1,V6, etc)?
How much do you want to spend? The VAP V1(.001) are around $165 for a dozen shafts,V3(.003) around $140 and V6(.006) are around $105.They are the same diameter as Easton Injexion,but the Injexion have a alittle higher GPI.But then too the VAP's come in more spines then Injexion's.I have some VAP 400,they are 7.1GPI and my Injexion 400 are 8.9 GPI.I put some VAP outserts in my Injexion so I could use 5/16" points,I didn't want to be limited to the Deep Six points with the 6/40 thread at a 100 gr point.
I've used the V!'s and the V3's - couldn't really tell much difference in flight, etc.
Now this is the amazing part. Was shooting my heavy bows yesterday (Toelke Whip 61# and Whippenstick Inferno 67# yesterday), and the same 400 spine VAP set-ups flew and performed great!
This is one arrow set-up over a bow range of R/D longbows and high performance recurves from draw weights of 50 - 67# with point weights from 200 - 300 grains up front, AND they all fly great!
Granted, overall arrow weight is a little lower than I prefer on the heavy bows, but it still amazes me the versatility (and penetration) of these arrows!
Thanks for the model info. It appears that Victory has tried to address the side shear problem of the original inserts. They have a lip that is a small outsert portion. Has anyone tried or seen the new Penetrator2 inserts?
I have shot the VAP 's some. I like the small diameter and think it lends it self to easier tunning. Arrows seem to shoot I a lot wider range of spine to bow poundage. I only have experience with the alum insert/outsert. They are not that durable. Only shot one animal. 85 lb pig out of a tree with a 40lb recurve. .500 full length with 175 2 blade. In the dirt pass through. I was surprised. I'm gonna play with them some more. I really like them as a hunting arrow.
I just bought 2 doz shafts. I had a couple of shafts I had been playing around with. I had gotten the 92 grain SS inserts. I was using a 200 tip. They flew perfect. When I got the shafts the other day they came with the inserts. I was dissapointed because they were only 43 grains and they wouldn't let me exchange or decline them (they are 30$ per box). However after looking at them today they are the penetrator inserts. I took one outta the box and they really seem like they will solve some issues. The increased ferrule lenght and the part that goes over the outside of the arrow roughly 3/16ths. That should definately help the sides from blowing out on angular hits. I am excited to experiment with them. Now I just need to find some 250 grain filed points to get the arrow weight where I had it with the SS inserts.
What is the full length measurement on these arrows?
I believe 31.5" (may be 31.25"). I'm cutting mine to 30" before adding insert/outserts. I draw a tad over 29".
Bob. Have u tried the penetrator 2 in/outserts?
Not yet. I see that they are now available from Lancaster. May get a set and see how they hold up. Should give around a 585 grain arrow using 400 with 300 grains up front.
I havnt tested them yet but I think they may really work well and solve some of the inherent issues.
QuoteOriginally posted by rbcorbitt:
I believe 31.5" (may be 31.25"). I'm cutting mine to 30" before adding insert/outserts. I draw a tad over 29".
I just looked at the Victory Website, 30.5" Guess I won't get to try these out since I have a monkey armed 31" draw!
Just an update. I have been shooting my vaps with the new penetrator 2 inserts. So far I am very pleased. I havnt had on come unglued yet and I have had some arrows take some very hard hits that would have broken them with the previous style inserts.
Same for me. Really like the Penetrator inserts. Mine have been shot quite a bit the last week or so and have no issues.
I've got to get those three that I traded with you Ken on some shafts. Hit a support rod in a "name brand" deer archery target with two shafts with the standard insert and result was two shafts split with the inserts driven back flush with shaft.
Have not had any issues with the internally footed AeroSerts as of yet. Seem to be really tough!
Going to fletch up some Easton Injexions with the thicker shaft walls and see how they perform!
Same here Bob. Still need to mount the Firenock outserts. Too much work time, not enough play time.
I just picked some up. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_3728.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_3728.jpg.html)
Hey if anyone needs some VAP stainless inserts let me know. I have some I'll part with.
BC
You tried the Penetrators yet? Whatcha think of 'em?
Just glued them on yesterday. I like the design. Now it's time to run them through the Bob Corbitt torture test (my normal shooting, that is).
LMAO! Let me know what you think of 'em.
I sleeved both ends of my .400 VAPs and used the 92gr. inserts.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1641.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1641.jpg.html)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1642.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1642.jpg.html)
Next, I paper tuned them till I got a bullet hole.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1539.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1539.jpg.html)
Tuned so well, I decided to shoot the bareshaft through paper too.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1628.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1628.jpg.html)
Shot a round of 3D with the fletched and bareshaft.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1632.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1632.jpg.html)
Double checked to see that my broadheads were flying well.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1570.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1570.jpg.html)
Was fortunate and harvested a billy this past weekend. After I shot the goat, it started to rain "cats and dogs", so I wasn't able to take out the camera till an hour later. No harvest pics, but I did get meat for the freezer...
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1609.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1609.jpg.html)
Ryan,
What did you use for for footing?
Bob
On the way out, the rain lifted and we had time for one last pic! Soaking wet, but Staci and I had a blast!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_1610.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/rysanpei/media/IMG_1610.jpg.html)
Bob,
The 1716s worked well for my .400s
Ryan
Cool. Thanks! Now I just have to find someone who will sell me a 1716 shaft!
Thanks again!! :thumbsup:
Bob,
In the past I've purchase single shafts from Lancaster Archery. I'm not sure if they are still doing that though.
Aloha!
Ryan
I'll check 'em out. What total arrow weight are you coming up with, and what broadhead weight (looks like a Muzzy)?
Same lenght on your footings (fore and aft) as you show in your tutorial?
Bob
Bob,
After experimenting, I settled for a 200gr tip, 92gr insert and 1" 1716 aluminum sleeve. I also have a 1/4" sleeve on the nock end.
My total arrow weight is 515gr.
Yes, that's a Muzzy Phantom.
Ryan
Good job, Ryan!
I've had some good luck with the AeroOutsert by Firenock with a 1.25" internal footing (solid stainless rod 5/32" - approx 20 grains).
Will try these externals with the standard VAP inserts to see how they work.
IMO, great shafts.
I shoot 400 VAP's through bows that range from 47 - 64# @ 28" (I'm drawing a tad over 29"), and in styles from Hill-type longbow to high performance statics. With anything from 200-300 grains up front - they all work!!
Talk about a versatile arrow combo!! :thumbsup:
Plus - as Ryan's goat can attest - they are killers!!!
Thanks for the info Bob! I'll go check out those AeroOutserts. Great idea about the SS rod.
Yeah, these arrows seem to tune really well! I just picked up another dozen.
Have a Great weekend!
Ryan
Well, I tried some of VAP V3 I picked up from Gary Hall. First off, FANTASTIC work from Gary as always, just beautiful. I was excited to give them a try so I glued in a Victory black AL insert on to a full length shaft and weighed it. Very light at 273gr so I screwed in the heaviest field point I had handy 200g for a total wt of 473, good enough to start for my 50 lb bow. First short shot into a bag target in garage work shop and seemed ok, let's go out side. First shot outside and:
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z56/Rover-rich/VAPfailure.jpg)
Bummer! Shot off and to side of target where it tore though the side of my block target and glanced to the right, striking my big ash tree behind. Couldn't believe it from the first shot at 20yds-- I make that shot in my sleep. I think that since the shaft is so small that perhaps it wasn't well seated on my shelf or perhaps I just flinched.
Anyhow, you can see in the pic the insert bent and tore out of the side of the arrow. Luckily I didn't cut the arrow shaft, so trimmed it back a bit, straightened the insert and tried again.
Well, even if the insert isn't perfectly straight, these things fly true. I'm pretty impressed with the flight. One thing is for sure, these arrows penetrate like none other I have seen or tried. I'd estimate that all things similar the VAP vs GT Trads I'm getting a good couple inches more penetration.
I'm gonna take the suggestion of others here an try some of the firenock outserts before I test, trim or shoot more. Report to follow soon. Happy Fathers day!