Has anyone ever been checked by a conservation officer while stump shooting. I was wondering today how I would explain it to an officer who maybe does not shoot traditional archery. Especially if he sees me entering the woods with a bow and a quiver full of arrows. So I am just wondering if anyone has been checked and how it went.
Don't carry any broadheads if you are not doing any hunting. If you are varmit hunting, just make sure you have your hunting license. Never had any issues here in Oregon. :thumbsup:
I've never been checked, but I always make sure I have a small game license and know the rules for the area and what is in season (something is always open year 'round)...
If you don't have any game on you, there's nothing they can cite you for as far as I know.
I have seen this type of thing posted before. Not sure I understand the concern. There is nothing illegal about carrying a knife, broadheads, or a gun. Using such tools illegally is the issue. I would not worry about it. The CO is not the judge.
In NY if you have a small game lic. You can be hunting red squirls , porque pine or groundhogs there is no season. Just find out what you have in your area with an open season. Then happen to miss a lot and hit stumps :archer2:
yeh' never thought much about it.... there is always something legal and on the hit list.
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
I have seen this type of thing posted before. Not sure I understand the concern. There is nothing illegal about carrying a knife, broadheads, or a gun. Using such tools illegally is the issue. I would not worry about it. The CO is not the judge.
Its a legitimate concern in some states it is illegal to target pratice on public land so that may not work if stumping on public land.
COs have more authority than state police. They don't need warrants and while they may not be a Judge unlike troopers a Judge can't reduce a charge made by a CO. Don't fool around with them. As I posted just find what has an open season in your area and let that be your reply. Don't make life hard on yourself.
I live on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, and CO's are not the problem here. Most CO's I've dealt with are sympathetic to archers and don't care if your out practicing, I've even had one give me directions to a better spot. Here logging companies have rights to huge sections of land and they like to restrict access by putting up gates. Even charging tolls to get through the gates between certain hours! I belong to a local jeep club and gates are always an issue, then after you get into the back country they have private security roaming around who'll boot you as soon as they see you. I had one who made me drive 20 miles on a nearly flat tire when I could have gone less than 1 mile to a gas station around a gate. Caught me as I was pulling my spare off the back and wouldn't even let me finish changing it, @^#hole.
I'd have made him wait!!!
Pretty sure I got the last laugh anyway. I had already stopped the leak in tire and only wanted to change it since after getting out of the trail the roadas better and I could go faster, but since I only had 5 or so lbs in I took it slow. Longest 20 miles he's ever had I bet!!
Have to be real careful to almost impossible in my area. Almost any action can be interpreted as pressuring animals which translates to hunting. We have a ton of anti hunters in southern NY that would be quick to make a call on you. It's far easier to just go to the local 3D range.
Yes sir. Been checked here in Michigan. You must have some type of valid hunting license to shoot " where game is present". Had to talk my way out of a ticket.
if you are going to use the small game angle--remember that most states require broadheads with cutting edges so be sure to have one in your quiver
I live in Northern Mi I have 600 acres of state land behind my house, my wife and I stump all the time have never had any issues! LimbLover was up over the weekend stumped all day Saturday afternoon! usually have my small game license all the same!
I have never been stopped while stump shooting. But, Longstick is correct. In NY, hunting is defined as:
To hunt—means to pursue, shoot, kill or
capture (other than trap) wildlife and includes
all lesser acts that disturb or worry wildlife
whether or not they result in taking.
So, walking through the woods with bow and a quiver of arrows could possibly disturb or worry wildlife, which according to NY means hunting.
Been check and was not an issue.
I think it depends entirely on the CO who may check you. They have lots of discretion as to how they respond.
Here in NJ it's considered target shooting and is illegal on public land.
QuoteOriginally posted by ronp:
I have never been stopped while stump shooting. But, Longstick is correct. In NY, hunting is defined as:
To hunt—means to pursue, shoot, kill or
capture (other than trap) wildlife and includes
all lesser acts that disturb or worry wildlife
whether or not they result in taking.
So, walking through the woods with bow and a quiver of arrows could possibly disturb or worry wildlife, which according to NY means hunting.
I don't mean any harm, but the more I read about the junk you guys in New York have to deal with the more thankful I am that I live in Kentucky.
It's spring gobbler season around here and I don't know if I could convince a CO I was just shoot'n at stumps or not.
No harm, Austin. We do have to put up with a lot of junk here in NY. Sometimes I wonder why I live here.
We are heading for the woods in about an hour to chase stumps. If we get checked, it will just be a whole bunch of yes sirs and no sirs, and we will try to explain what were're doing. The COs I have met have all been very professional.
In Michigan it would technically be called target shooting on public land and, therefor, illegal. CO's are human like the rest of us. I've met quite a few and have never had a problem.
I was doing some fishing in Ontario, Canada while on a bear hunt with my two sons. We were approached by two COs who asked us if we had a permit to fish that particular water. We showed them our Ontario fishing license and they explained that the particular water we were fishing required a special permit. They had chatted with us a bit before telling us we were violating the law and when we told them we didn't realize we were, they let us leave with no ticket. They even recommended a nearby lake where no special permit was required.
There are many animals in season here year-round and I always buy a small game license each year. The few times I've been approached by a CO when I was out with a bow or .22 handgun we chatted a bit about being out in the woods and how relaxing it was. They would ask to see my small game license and say "have a nice day".
I suspect if I started out with "I'm not hunting anything and you can't stop me from walking in the woods with my bow" it would turn out that he had been watching me shooting pine cones or stumps or some other target, and I would get a lecture about target shooting being illegal, followed by a ticket when I reacted negatively. Personally, I like seeing them out doing their jobs. There's a huge amount of poaching that goes on that I appreciate them trying to control.
GWs think you're guilty of something as soon as you pull out of your driveway. Their arrogance and authority far exceeds their intelligence, in this state. :p
I always carry my hunting license, period. I know and abide by the laws and expect no less from any LEO that's stopping me...for any reason. Again, in this state, GWs make their money from violations and that's what they're looking for during any stoppage.
I can give too many accounts of having to quote the law to a GW to get him/her to realize who they're dealing with and where their authority stops. Know the laws and be prepared! :thumbsup:
Bowhunter57
Our local C.O. is more worried about writing You a seat belt violation than he is about enforcing Conservation laws. It says " Seat Belt Enforcement Unit " across his tailgate.
That being said it is legal to hunt Rabbits and Coyotes year round here. Not like they could keep You out of the woods with Broadheads if they wanted to.
bretto
I just carry my license. I have never been checked but figure I will be covered in any scenario as long as I wasnt breaking any other laws.
Yup Charlie, we just try to obey the laws and be respectful.
In Indiana there is times when nothing is in season. The months of May, June, July. I would for sure have a license. I just wanted want any issues.
Ron : All you have to do is show him your 60+ yd shot and he will be so impressed you will go free. :wavey: :thumbsup:
in the past i always carried my bow on summer scouting trips,to stump shoot, but regulations have changed alot here and you can no longer target practice on public land nor can you carry a hunting weapon out of season, I pretty well just quit carrying my bow and stumping in general due to this. The recently opened squirrel season to 10 months or so, maybe I can just "squirrel hunt" now..
Went stumping last weekend, bought a 2013 small game license. Wood chucks and red squirrels are open all year. I have never been checked by a C.O. while hunting or fishing but there is always a first time. I would not tell the C.O that I was target practicing or stump shooting. I would tell him that I was scouting and hunting wood chucks.
You guys up in NY have got some JACKED UP LAWS... Do they have a wildlife psychologist to console the animals after hunting season???LOL
QuoteOriginally posted by motorhead7963:
You guys up in NY have got some JACKED UP LAWS... Do they have a wildlife psychologist to console the animals after hunting season???LOL
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
If your state is like mine you can kill starlings in any number with any method year round. We just need a small game tag unless you are a land owner. Have missed 4 so far. Seems to be an exercise in futility but fun no less. Hate those nasty critters.
QuoteOriginally posted by motorhead7963:
You guys up in NY have got some JACKED UP LAWS... Do they have a wildlife psychologist to console the animals after hunting season???LOL
Coming from a guy from CA that is funny.
Here in NH you could be considered to be hunting so you need a hunting license in your pocket to CYA. Before Laura got her license she was unable to stump shoot legally.
Yes, got checked in Washington after shooting on some county owned land. It was apparently considered a park, therefore shooting was illegal. Luckily the Deputy didn't see me actually shooting otherwise I would have received a citation for "launching a missile" in a county park. I made him actually look up and show me in writing the rule as it wasn't posted anywhere at the "park"! If you're shooting on State or Federal land, you most likely will need a hunting license and a species open for hunting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Gerardi:
QuoteOriginally posted by motorhead7963:
You guys up in NY have got some JACKED UP LAWS... Do they have a wildlife psychologist to console the animals after hunting season???LOL
Coming from a guy from CA that is funny. [/b]
I am enjoying the irony here... ;)
Finding a warden in Florida would be like the odds of winning the lottery. There are basically 3 assigned to a county. You would probably stand a better chance of being checked by a skunk ape than a game warden here.
QuoteOriginally posted by tarponnut:
Finding a warden in Florida would be like the odds of winning the lottery. There are basically 3 assigned to a county. You would probably stand a better chance of being checked by a skunk ape than a game warden here.
Hmmm. I've been checked twice here in the last 4 yrs.
acollins,
It depends on the property but many public lands in Indiana do not allow target shooting. Checks the property rules if you want to strictly comply. Target shooting is not allowed on Indiana State Forest property unless you are on a designated target range.
we have no stumps!!!!
We shoot sage and the limit on sage is pretty much huge.
Our wardens are reasonable for the most part and do not hassel folks walking in the flats unless they are in a closed area or acting funny.
Had a conversation about this with a game warden in my state last year. It was turkey season and I had shot a turkey with my bow. I was at my truck with bow stashed and turkey tagged about 9 a.m. when a warden pulled up to check me.
Since my brother was still hunting, and would be for the rest of the day, I suggested to the warden what I planned to do -- go looking for morels and do some stump shooting at the same time. He didn't know what stump shooting was so I had to explain it. Also explained that I'd leave my broadheads in the truck and just have steel blunts. What would he do if he came upon me while I was stump shooting, I asked. Probably cite me for hunting turkeys without a valid permit, he said.
Obviously, I didn't carry my bow with me when I went looking for morels. Have had this conversation with several other wardens since. Again, most had not heard of stump shooting. ( I explained it and presented them with a copy of our Wisconsin Traditional Archers magazine, which is titled, The Stumpshooter).) Regardless, they said it would probably be officer discretion as to whether to cite for illegal hunting. My fallback is to say I'm hunting coyotes, which are open year around here. I always have a valid small game hunting license,of course.
Long story short, I still stump shoot, though not during turkey season around here. Guess I'm willing to take the chance and spend the time and money to defend myself in court if the warden's interpretation of what I'm doing doesn't match mine.
Been combing through the Massachusetts laws & can't find anything specific. But I suspect game wardens will be sparse during non-hunting season and focusing instead on fishermen.
Geez Nazifornia is not as bad as I thought.I just varmit hunt all year.
You have the right to keep and bear arms and you do NOT need a license to do it. And, as far as I know, a bow would be considered arms. As long as you don't have any game dead in your possession or are not caught actually shooting at something alive, I don't believe there is a thing they can site you for.
Mike
By the way, a C.O. told me that it is not illegal to carry a firearm in the woods as long as you are not hunting. The second amendment applies to the woods also. After all, you have the right to protect yourself from rabid animals as well as rabid humans!
Mike
The gw can cite you for anything at any time. Even if he's dead wrong you'll have to spend your time and money defending yourself. Many of their rules aren't meant to hold up in court, but just to make a little $$$ since most folks will never challenge a citation.
IN PA your "PRESUMED" to be hunting if you are on state land ( especially State Game Land ) if you are there with ANY WEAPON that could kill or wound any animal . MY property borders St Game lands and IF I go to do a bit of walking around, I ALWAYS have my hunting license with me . Almost always something legal open, Coyotes , Ground Hogs etc. MOST Game officers I have run into are usually understanding of the concept, but you never know !!
Yeah, you better check the game laws in the state you are in. Michigan, for example, did not allow concealed carry on state land by those with concealed carry licenses until it was challenged in court. Now, you can carry concealed, but can't use it for hunting unless you have a hunting license and there is an open season for the game you are hunting. There is a lot of fine print, such as not carrying a rifle (even a .22LR) or a shotgun with anything but bird shot in the week before deer season opens.
It's fine to rant about 2nd Amendment rights, but it's really easy to run afoul of game laws that have nothing to do with self defense and are becoming more complicated each year.
deaddoc4444's description of PA law is very similar to Michigan's. In Michigan it is illegal to have a weapon on state land "frequented by game animals" other than at approved ranges unless you have a hunting license.
I have a concealed carry license and usually have something in my pocket when out in the woods. Nothing they can say about that now, but I also have a small game license at a minimum and as deaddoc4444 said, there is always something in season here all year round. If I have a bow or a .22 with me, that is what I'm hunting if anyone asks.
QuoteOriginally posted by MikeS:
You have the right to keep and bear arms and you do NOT need a license to do it. And, as far as I know, a bow would be considered arms. As long as you don't have any game dead in your possession or are not caught actually shooting at something alive, I don't believe there is a thing they can site you for.
Mike
My point! And further- a bow is not even necessarily a firearm!! Kids in school/4-H can take archery class in the public school!!
I come from generations of LOs, including many friends in the enforcement/judicial profession and process. But again, if I am not doing anything illegal -even if given a citation- I will gladly face a judge. I am innocent unless proven guilty.
For the life of me I can not understand why people will give up freedom for a police state. LO are here to serve and help keep civility- not jump on a person for a tail light out. . . or a particular arrow in a quiver.
I was referring to private lands in my earlier post (about scarcity of wardens in Florida).
I was told by a warden in the Everglades that said he stopped checking fly-fisherman for licenses because it was a waste of his time(they all had them).
The same would likely hold true for trad bowhunters. I'd be willing to bet that most c.o.'s wouldn't have a clue what stump shooting was, most wheel bow shooters probably wouldn't either for that matter.
This is most likely, "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" debate. (but of course, I'm participating)
Here in michigan if a c.o. stops, just take off running.
KSdan, I also come from a family of LEOs and was myself a Detroit PD officer for a few years before getting drafted into the Army. I also teach a concealed carry class and have for years. Each class I get someone who says something to the effect "Someone tries to steal something from my house, he's dead". For those people who want to believe they can get away with it, knock yourself out. For the rest, I say "read the law and save yourself a LOT of money". Michigan law specifically states, in spite of the castle doctrine addition, that lethal force can only be used to protect persons; not property. The game laws are also very specific about what you can carry afield, when and how. And a bow is a legal hunting weapon (a spear is not in MI). If someone wants to waste his money trying to prove a point in court, that's his option. I'd rather donate it to a good charity. It's so much easier and cheaper to get a small game license, which I will buy anyway and enjoy my stumping and the ability to legally take a varmint if the opportunity presents itself. Just my way of doing things. You have yours. We both enjoy bows, stumping and bowhunting. I just think my way will be cheaper and less stressful for me in the long run. I'm not even going to comment on kill shot's reply.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bladepeek:
KSdan, I also come from a family of LEOs and was myself a Detroit PD officer for a few years before getting drafted into the Army. I also teach a concealed carry class and have for years. Each class I get someone who says something to the effect "Someone tries to steal something from my house, he's dead". For those people who want to believe they can get away with it, knock yourself out. For the rest, I say "read the law and save yourself a LOT of money". Michigan law specifically states, in spite of the castle doctrine addition, that lethal force can only be used to protect persons; not property. The game laws are also very specific about what you can carry afield, when and how. And a bow is a legal hunting weapon (a spear is not in MI). If someone wants to waste his money trying to prove a point in court, that's his option. I'd rather donate it to a good charity. It's so much easier and cheaper to get a small game license, which I will buy anyway and enjoy my stumping and the ability to legally take a varmint if the opportunity presents itself. Just my way of doing things. You have yours. We both enjoy bows, stumping and bowhunting. I just think my way will be cheaper and less stressful for me in the long run. I'm not even going to comment on kill shot's reply.
:thumbsup:
I remember from living in NY, we would always be "squirrel hunting" for pine (red) squirrels because theres absolutely no target shooting on most of the state land.
Since the CO's can't get close enough to you undetected to tell if you're shooting at chipmunks/squirrels/bumblebees etc. they can't do much if you're stumping but you better have a small game license.
Lastly, not to stir up trouble but someone suggested CO's don't need warrants. Thats simply not true. The fourth amendment provides protection from unwarrented searches. Yes, some exceptions exist, but they would not apply to CO's differntly than other officers. Although I would be interested if there is actual evidence to the contrary (article or other source not generalized experience)
Thats funny Bladepeek, bc in Alabama if a person enters your home, they are assumed to do you harm, so lethal force is legal. I was also once told by a local sheriff deputy that if they run through your yard and cross into your neighbors yard, you can also assume they are threatening your neighbor... read into that what you will.
As far as stump shooting, try to find some private land if you can bc if it is public ground a whole new set of rules apply. They can really make up whatever rule they want to.
Dave
Dave, it's pretty wild how much the laws regarding the use of force differ from state to state. In some states it's only legal to use lethal force to prevent the use of lethal force aginst you, your family, or bi-standards. Basically means only the criminal can ever escalate ... then you have places that let you shoot a guy in the back if he's on your front lawn ...
I don't presume to know AL law. I do know that in MI, it is a "rebuttable presumption" that if someone breaks into your home they intend to do you harm. All that means is that the burden of proof is now on the prosecutor instead of the defense attorney. It still all comes down to the defense of self or another. If a "reasonable person" would have felt in danger of death or serious bodily harm under the circumstances, then it is self defense. If the prosecutor can show that a reasonable person would not have felt in danger, then you don't pass GO, you don't collect $200 - you go directly to jail.
It's too bad we don't have a self defense forum. This would be interesting to pursue. Since it is wandering from the initial post, and, as I've been told befre, has nothing to do with trad bowhunting, I'm outta here.
Ron
QuoteOriginally posted by LittleBen:
le but someone suggested CO's don't need warrants. Thats simply not true. The fourth amendment provides protection from unwarrented searches. Yes, some exceptions exist, but they would not apply to CO's differntly than other officers. Although I would be interested if there is actual evidence to the contrary (article or other source not generalized experience)
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 09:01 PM USA/ET
Source: San Francisco Chronicle
The U.S. Supreme Court today granted California game wardens the authority to stop and question motorists
.The justices denied review of a California Supreme Court ruling in June that upheld the vehicle stops without requiring a warrant or evidence of lawbreaking.
All a warden needs to initiate such a stop is knowledge that the person or persons in the vehicle have been hunting or fishing. As long as the wardens' demands are limited to items directly related to fishing and hunting, then the stop and any subsequent search is permissible, the court said.
The court's ruling stems from a 2007 case in which a game warden stopped an angler three blocks from a San Diego public fishing pier and discovered the illegal take of a spiny lobster. The warden had been observing the pier through a telescope from a distance of 200 yards (so as not to be detected) when he saw Bouhn Maikhio pull something out of the water with a hand line and put it in a black bag.
Although the warden could not tell what Maikhio had caught and later admitted he did not have reason, at that point, to suspect a law had been broken, he pursued Maikhio after watching him leave the pier, get in his car, and exit the parking lot. As the warden put it, he wanted to "make sure that [Maikhio] was in compliance with the California fishing law and regulations."
Lapin said, game wardens "really couldn't be doing their job" without the power to detain people who have recently been hunting or fishing, activities that rarely show outward evidence of lawbreaking.
Lapin said, game wardens "really couldn't be doing their job" without the power to detain people who have recently been hunting or fishing, activities that rarely show outward evidence of lawbreaking.
In its decision, the court said the inconvenience of such stops, when compared to the state's need to protect wildlife for future enjoyment, is minor. The court also said hunters and anglers give up some measure of their Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure because hunting and fishing regulations would be "impossible to adequately enforce if a game warden could stop...only those anglers and hunters who the warden reasonably suspected had violated the fish and game law."
The laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[4] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S Constitution.
Or just carry your small game liscence know your laws and go stumping :archer2:
In Texas hogs are always in season so we stump shoot with a couple broadheads in the quiver, always. License in the pocket. :campfire:
I'm pretty sure you can't legally be in the woods with a bow and arrow during deer gun seasons in areas where it's gun only and that's just about the whole state. No matter what licsense or permits you have.
In Michigan you can. You need the proper license and you have to wear hunter orange.
Bladepeek- I agree that there is no need for wrangling or spending unnecessary resources. Interesting though, as the family LOs I speak are retired from various MI Depts.- state troops, city PD, DNR etc. And a number of my current friends are prosecutors all the way to the federal level. So- believe me- I have HIGH respect for the positions.
I do not know the current said law there (moved from there in early 90s)- but I will bet that walking around and shooting my bow will be hard pressed to be prosecuted. Further, I am mystified why this is such an issue-even on this site. Officers need to find poachers/criminals, not some person walking around shooting arrows at bushes.
BTW- for others. . . interesting here in KS as you only have to wear orange if you are deer hunting during a firearm season. Hunt something else or go for a walk and no need for orange! I guess their great logic (LOL) is if you have a gun in hand you are more apt to be shot! LOL
maikhio vs. california the US Supreme Court denied hearing it letting California's decision for the game warden stand.
All they need is to hear from an acquaintance they saw an owl mount in your house or we had venison the other night at so and so's house ( this law did change a few years back but before in NY you couldnt have venison in your house after August ) and your home is just as safe as maikhio's car was from search without a warrant.
Fool with them if you want
I to am in Southern Tier NY. I go as far as carrying printouts of what game is in season while I'm in the woods even if for stumping. For instance, from June to September 1st you can hunt for frogs and turtles with a bow in NY. That gives us 3 months of stumping.
Converml- Good work by CA CO. The guy was poaching. Glad he was caught.
Still not sure what much of this discussion has to do with shooting arrows in the bushes.
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
Converml- Good work by CA CO. The guy was poaching. Glad he was caught.
Still not sure what much of this discussion has to do with shooting arrows in the bushes.
It was in reply to proof requested that game wardens don't need search warrants . He was stopped and car searched even though the warden admitted he didn't see him actually do anything illegal. He lost and the Supreme Court backed the warden up.
Some states won't allow target pratice on public land and define hunting as disturbing wildlife.
Which a game warden can decide that is what shooting arrows in bushes is. so if stumping just carry your liscence and find something always in season and have a good time.
Unless some have the time and desire to sit out hunting season and that's if you lucky.
Most are nice guys I have one friend that is a warden but you just need 1 younge buck that let's that authority go to his head an you're busy for a while
Good advice Converml- I think that is what Blade was offering as well. . . probably good wisdom. Just hate seeing us lose freedoms. . . whether a kid going out after school and shooting a gun, only being allowed to purchase a certain size soft drink, or now someone shooting arrows into the bushes. Sad