My buddy Butch drove up today to flings some arrows and have a little BS'ing time.
He brought along a beautiful Howard Hill Half Breed 70" 62@28 because the bow was taller than he is...lol...j/k The real reason is it was just more bow than he wanted to try to build himself into.
I had a couple of lighter wt bows that He had some interest in so we thought we'd get together and just see what worked out.
My 1st dozen or so arrows weren't all that far off the mark but it didn't take long for me to figure out the bow was getting strong and longer with each shot...lol
By the end of our shooting or when I told Butch...I was calling "Uncle!!" my rear end was dragging the ground.
My groups weren't too bad as long as I compared them to an open bore 12 gauge at about 30 yds...lol
Thank you Butch for taking your time to come visit, I always enjoy your company and I know you enjoyed watching me turn into a "girlie man"...lol
I'm not in my 20's,30' or even 40's any more and I need to stick with what I can shoot...lol
God bless,Mudd
I know guys love those Hill bows, but even when I grip them right, they rattle my teeth and my bones. I have often said I like the mystique surrounding them but they beat me up bad. Shawn
I don't shoot anything I need help stringing.....LOL :biglaugh:
Shawn, you must be a real sensitive delicate sort of guy! :saywhat: I'm almost 70 and love shooting my Hills and they don't shake me up at all. Guess I must be a tough old buzzard. :biglaugh:
David, actually a pretty big dude butfor some reason I hurt all over after shooting them, pushing 50 I am. God Bless Ya! Shawn
Well I'm only 33 and just switched to the hill style bows and man do I love them! There's something about the simplicity and old school style that is just amazing. I can shoot these bows just as well as my old r/d bows. By the way mudd I just picked up a northern mist classic from stabow that is just awesome! I'll have to send you a few pics.
Let's not forget a big fat thank you to stabow. top notch guy to deal with
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
I know guys love those Hill bows, but even when I grip them right, they rattle my teeth and my bones. I have often said I like the mystique surrounding them but they beat me up bad. Shawn
X1000 Shawn. I think there is definitely a knack to calming them down, but I didn't find it before I cried uncle from a throbbing elbow. Maybe I needed a heavy wood arrow. Love the simplicity of them though.
"My groups weren't too bad as long as I compared them to an open bore 12 gauge at about 30 yds...lol"
"I'm not in my 20's,30' or even 40's any more and I need to stick with what I can shoot...lol"
Mudd - I resemble those remarks!!
Danny
Shawn Ive shot a JD berry,Miller and Sunset hill and never felt much handshock of any of those. Cant speak of others I have not shot.
I don't have issues with the potent Hill bows as long as I stay in shape. I am coming off an injury and just posted a thread asking for help in re-structuring my arrow selection due to a reduced draw length. So I have just this week been again reminded that you must work with heavier bows regularly and carefully to stay in condition to handle them well.
All that said, I would love to get my hands on a 62# Halfbreed.
Sam I am in great shape.... as long as round is still a shape..lol
God bless,Mudd
Shape has nothing to do with it, I can still bench 270#s and can out walk anyone half my age. There is a knack to shooting them and there is no way of denying they have handshock. Hill even said that they had some handshock. Shawn
I agree with Shawn totally! If you like them, nothing wrong with that!
Mudd,
Glad I got a chance to visit. I always enjoy myself around you.
I hate to say that Roy was shaking toward the end of the session but, I've seen small dogs pass peach seeds and not shake like that!
I have a 52# hill that has more handshock than my 90# hill or 100# BAMA. Don't know if it is having more tension at brace height, or if it is slight differences in the grip. Some people it bothers, others it doesn't. No biggie to me.
The only time I notice the handshock in my Hill style bows I build is after I shoot a r/d bow for a while. Once I've been shooting a Hill style for a while again, I don't notice the handshock anymore. I kind of think there are two types of Hill shooters: 1) those that get use to the handshock, and 2) those that don't shoot them long enough to get use to the handshock.
I don't see where Mr. Mudd said that the 70"er had hand shock, I take it that the pull was more than he has been shooting. For those that cannot tolerate the Hill hand shock try a bit higher brace, or a padded fast flight and bend that bow arm, letting the push of the arm or the kick of the bow top out your elbow will cause pain. For some a reflex timing develops that lets the bow have some room to do its thing without rattling the shooter.
I have heard other people comment on the hand shock of the hill style bows. I notice a little while shooting, but to me it is far from teeth shattering. There was/is a little muscle adjustment when first shooting and shooting for long periods of time from my experience, but nothing has conditioned me more, bow wise, than my Hill bows. Shooting heavy arrows from my 53 lb Wesley is simply orgasmic. I suppose shooting light for poundage arrows could prove somewhat shocking for some.Love my Hills.
More like a gentle thump than any kind of teeth rattling shock...
Mudd ol' friend, it ain't the the years but the mileage which takes the toll on us...
I have never had any real issues with handshock, it's the heavier poundage that was whacking on me.
The problem really started after trying several times to weigh the bow with my hand held bow scale.
The couple of extra inches that I need to draw the bow to get my arrow back to the clothes pin that was my mark for 28" caused me more stress on my body than it wanted to handle.
I never gave any thought before today how much those extra couple of inches could impact on me.
Once I had overstressed myself then normal shooting became an issue as well.
They still make hand held bow scales? Those things were dangerous.
Hill style bows are all I shoot. I would say hand shock talk is crazy as I don't feel it. But here is a story. Back in college I wanted to shoot a longbow like HH. I came across a 70# Martin ML-10 in a gun store. I decided I would buy it as it was the first longbow I had ever seen. The man said if you want to shoot it we can go down in the basement. We did and between the two of us finally got it strung. He handed me some arrows and I shot it one time and I swear I had grabbed an electric fence. I left and did not buy the bow. About 5-6 years later I ordered a bow from HHA and have never had an issue. I have added several mow longbows over the past 12 years and still no hand shock. It doesn't seem to matter how I hold it or what the arrow weighs. All that said I experienced on time in my life and it was crazy.
QuoteOriginally posted by Brazos:
Hill style bows are all I shoot. I would say hand shock talk is crazy as I don't feel it. But here is a story. Back in college I wanted to shoot a longbow like HH. I came across a 70# Martin ML-10 in a gun store. I decided I would buy it as it was the first longbow I had ever seen. The man said if you want to shoot it we can go down in the basement. We did and between the two of us finally got it strung. He handed me some arrows and I shot it one time and I swear I had grabbed an electric fence. I left and did not buy the bow. About 5-6 years later I ordered a bow from HHA and have never had an issue. I have added several mow longbows over the past 12 years and still no hand shock. It doesn't seem to matter how I hold it or what the arrow weighs. All that said I experienced on time in my life and it was crazy.
That's because youre brain is still shaking fom the first shot. LOLI love the look and feel of a great hh bow. but every time I shoot one I can feel fillings in my teeth come loose. lol.
I don't think Mudd really intended this to be an argument of who can shoot a Hill without causing hand shock that gets all the way to their teeth. I think those that find the shock to be over whelming actually do things that make it worse. The other day I was playing with my light weight Grooves recurve, trying to see how far I could shoot an arrow. I stretched for a long draw and shot, I got immediate pain in my elbow from shooting with my bowarm locked out. Even if one is shoting straight armed, that arm is still pushing the bow out. The combination of the bows energy and a topped out arm with no place to go will amplify that energy. Hills that have some bump with B50 strings will not make shooters with extended locked out bowarms very happy. They do not all kick the same, mine have no more than an average recurve. There is nothing wrong with shooting recurves if your body type and form does not cooperate with a Hill longbow.
I love hh BOWS , BUT YA GOT KNOW HOW TO HOLD THEM... :)
sorry didnt mean to capitalize
pavan; "I don't think Mudd really intended this to be an argument of who can shoot a Hill without causing hand shock that gets all the way to their teeth."
That is correct pavan.
I never said anything about handshock.(it's a non-issue) for me.
I was talking about the fact that I was way over bowed shooting 62@28 and that's all I was referring to.. well that and the fact the bow made me feeling like a wussie boy or maybe even a girlie girl.. either way, the poundage ate my lunch..lol
God bless,Mudd
Yes, I believe as you, that trying to string it caused to much stress on your bow arm. I have done the same thing in the past. I always use a stringer on a longbow, especially a 66" or longer bow. If I forget my stringer then it doesn't get strung.
With my favorite 68" bow I intentionally left the top tip big enough so I could use a bow loader. I had a Pete George that was to tiny to use the bow loader and that 68" 64 pound bow hurt me everytime I strung it. Take a couple of inches off and I can load an 80 pounder without a bowloader. Those extra couple of inches may shoot nice, but for us stubby guys it is an awkward stretch to string them.
Need to have the teeth rattled to insure the fillings are tight. It's all about ones personal health and the Hill style keeps the muscles toned and insures a good set of choppers.
Shooting Hill style bows seems to be a state of mind.
In Mudd's case (as he said) it was the heavy weight not the type of bow that was 'whacking' him. There comes a day when we must all recognize our limitations on bow weight, hopefully before our arms fall off. :scared:
But re bows and shooting styles, with recurves years ago I had ALOT more shoulder/elbow trouble than I do now with mostly Hills and mild R/D longbows. The reason was that way back then I was drinking the 'shoot like an Olympian' KoolAid...set rigid arm and elbow, anchor way back, hold until the sun sets and release. The body isn't made to do that repeatedly with heavy or even mid-weight bows. Such problems aren't strength related...back then I was strong enough to pick up my 6 hp snowblower and load it in the bed of my truck...yet trying to shoot that rigid shooting style beat my joints to death and I still suffer from those mistakes now that I'm older. But it wasn't the bow design, it was the method design. I finally learned my lesson that a more rhythmic style saves much wear and tear on important parts.
Sometimes I think we spend too much time trying to become archery champions when all we REALLY want to do is shoot well enough, accurately enough, and comfortable enough to enjoy the shooting, hunt and have fun.
As I get older it's clear that chasing target shooting perfection with my hunting weight bows and blue collar aspirations is highly overrated. :biglaugh:
even though it was on the off side f the topic...
This simple thread has answered more recent questions for me than rereading the 900+ pages of the HH bug thread.
I just swapped out strings on my 70" HH Weasly Special... Holy cow! I braced it and took a shot, two shots, a dozen. I thought someone must have snuck into my house and swapped me bows. I think I have finally found her new braced height. I have never felt a bow that hurt that much to shoot and I had been shooting that bow for over a year thinking it was the smoothest bow, Hill or Recurve, I had ever shot. I thought I bought the same string I had on there. Every bow has it's own personality I guess. Had to keep playing with it until she finally told me how she wanted. Still draws a little different, not sure how to describe it. I actually started to shoot my 68" HH WS more because of it, which started to hurt my bow elbow, and thanks to Pavan, I guess I know why. I draw it a little different because it's 10#s lighter.... so I am probably over extending that a little.
You guys are the best. I knew there was a reason I lurked around here so much. Now I need to get the honey-do list done quickly after church so I can try and see if I can fix my form this afternoon in the yard.
Thanks all!