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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: adeeden on March 20, 2013, 12:22:00 PM

Title: The ghost doe.
Post by: adeeden on March 20, 2013, 12:22:00 PM
I haven't posted here in a long time but thought I would share this.

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/adeeden/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8773.jpg)

I first saw this albino fawn the weekend after last years  Cloverdale shoot while out picking raspberry's. the Momma was a normal looking but the fawn was white as can be. She was tiny then and I only got a few seconds look before she disappeared.
I saw her off an on over the summer in the same general area and was hoping she would make it through the fall. She's on the Indiana side of the river which has a long gun season but she made it!

I took this picture two days ago with my cell phone but she seems to be doing well.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: John Scifres on March 20, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
Cool.  Even if she wandered up to Parke County, she'd be safe from me, gun or bow.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: adeeden on March 20, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
John she's closer to your gated community then you would guess my freind!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: 4dogs on March 20, 2013, 12:43:00 PM
Good luck to see one of these...bad medicine to kill one. I wish her well.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: ron w on March 20, 2013, 01:15:00 PM
Snow camo.....lol! Really neat !!!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Jayrod on March 20, 2013, 01:18:00 PM
That's great she made it ...I would take pics but would pass on a opportunity on her!!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: adeeden on March 20, 2013, 01:27:00 PM
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/adeeden/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8454.jpg)

Another crappy cell phone picture.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: 59Alaskan on March 20, 2013, 08:33:00 PM
Very cool!  Thank you for posting.  It would be stunning to see one of these in the wild.  I have yet to even spot a piebald although they are in our area.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: chanumpa on March 20, 2013, 08:37:00 PM
Excellant!Thanks for sharing.Im with 4dogs on this one,"Big Medecine"
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Bud B. on March 20, 2013, 08:42:00 PM
I'd pass...but around here she'd have been killed when she was a fawn, most likely. Like the white buffalo I think they're a specialty in nature and only nature should take her/them (albinos)

Now white hares and ptarmigan? Dead right there!!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Bruinbow on March 20, 2013, 08:58:00 PM
That's awesome . My sister and brother in law had a piebald on there property several years back and she asked me to get it so she could tan the hide with the hair on . A few days later it walked by me about 15yds away , I lined up for the shot , drew , let down and watched it fade into the woods . Just couldn't do it . Saw it several times after that and never told my sister .
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: adeeden on March 20, 2013, 09:45:00 PM
I have no issue taking a piebald, in fact I have taken 2 in the last 2 years (one was maned as well). But an all white one is different to me and yes kinda like the white buffaloe I suppose.

Strangely about 15 years ago I had a pair of albino fawns about 12 miles from where this ones hanging out. I watched them all summer and fall had them under my stand many times. Word got out they were there and guys started hunting them. The doe fawn was killed that November in the gun season, the button made it through that first year.

The following year he had a 6 point rack once again I had him unde my stand several times. He made it through that fall as I saw him just after Christmas but I never saw him after that. Not sure what happened to him but I suspect he was poached or killed by a vehicle.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: jsweka on March 20, 2013, 09:56:00 PM
Maybe I'm a jerk, but I'd shoot her if given the opportunity.

Piebalds - Those are ones you really should shoot.  That is a genetic defect which along with the unique coloration also carries other abmormalities like short lower jaws, short legs, and scoliosis.

Albinos don't have these problems - just the white color.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Bud B. on March 20, 2013, 10:10:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
Maybe I'm a jerk, ...
Nope...just making different choices. Nut'n wrong with that.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: sheephunter on March 20, 2013, 11:30:00 PM
Too cool!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Hummer3T on March 20, 2013, 11:32:00 PM
that is a cool sighting for sure.  thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: CRS on March 21, 2013, 12:31:00 AM
Cool, thanks for sharing
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Zbone on March 21, 2013, 09:11:00 AM
Am always intrigued by these uniquely color phased deer, thanx for sharing...
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: RunninWild77 on March 21, 2013, 09:19:00 AM
Ya I agree, big medicine, she or any other any other pie ball would get a free pass from me. Just my opinion. Natives believed it was bad medicine to kill one. There was a white doe mingling around on the highway I saw twice in a row on my way home from work. She was on the I-90 West by the rail yard here in buffalo if any one in my area is curious.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: JamesKerr on March 21, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
I don't want to ruffle any feather but I would probably shoot her given the chance. I would only shoot one of them though just to have that gorgeous hide( the meat would not go to waste though  :bigsmyl:    )
Like I said I would only shoot one though. I doubt they are bad luck though cause my Grandpa killed a piebald years back and he's one of the luckiest hunters I know.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Altiman94 on March 21, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
That's really awesome!  I have never seen an albino deer in the wild, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: gregg dudley on March 21, 2013, 11:06:00 PM
Considering the fact that there were literally hundreds of Native American tribes with dozens of legends and traditions each I am sure that some had a taboo on killing white buffalo and other white animals.  However, I doubt that there was wholesale protection unilaterally awarded to any creature.  I have tried to research it and my search winds down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.  It appears that most of the perceived protective spirituality associated with white or albino animals is a relatively new idea.  Earlier concepts appear to have been more of a covetous nature, as in shoot, skin, possess, and thereby receive the medicine/power.

Teddy Roosevelt is said to have offered $5,000 for the skin of a white buffalo that had a treaty signed on the back of it.  The buffalo was killed by the Cheyenne in 1833.

Sacred does NOT mean protected.  There are multiple Native American legends associated with white deer that refer to the animals as sacred and then go on to indicate that they were hunted.  A Chickasaw legend that I read recently refers to a young warrior that never returned from a quest to kill a white deer for his bride-to-be.  In turn the woman never married.  According to the legend the white deer was thereafter "sacred" and a wedding dress made of white deer hide the ultimate symbol of eternal love.

For me personally, as a hunter, I struggle with the notion of attaching any protective aura to wild game animals based simply on appearance.  To me, all game animals are beautiful. It seems a contradiction to single one out for protection based on some near anthropomorphic idealism.  After all, isn't that what anti-hunters do with all game?

What I think happens more often than not is that a white deer shows up in somebody's back 40 and because it is more easily identifiable than the rest of the herd it earns a name and becomes something of a "pet".  After that it becomes something that they scan the treeline looking for every time they cross from the barn to the house.  After a few encounters they have some sense of connection to it and naturally become reluctant to kill it.  I can buy that and would probably feel the same way.

My dad used to hunt a stand that he would see countless does and fawns from on a daily basis.  He had them all named.  When it came time for doe-days he was worthless as a manager.  If there had been a white one in the lot we might have had a fist fight!  

   :campfire:          
:archer2:

Very cool pictures, by the way!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: gregg dudley on March 21, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
I'd pass...but around here she'd have been killed when she was a fawn, most likely. Like the white buffalo I think they're a specialty in nature and only nature should take her/them (albinos)

Now white hares and ptarmigan? Dead right there!!
Definitely NOT picking a fight, but I like good conversation.  This sentiment always leaves me scratching my head.  As hunters we embrace our rightful place at the top of the food chain.  Are we not then an integral part of nature?     ;)
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: b.glass on March 22, 2013, 04:28:00 PM
I beleive it was the Wensels that said they are not suppose to be white. To take them out of the herd would be the right thing to do. I agree, however, I don't know that I could do it.

I wasn't going to post this but gregg gave me the guts!   ;)
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: on March 22, 2013, 05:13:00 PM
Awesome!

Bisch
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: T-Bowhunter on March 22, 2013, 07:31:00 PM
Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: 4dogs on March 22, 2013, 08:02:00 PM
My reasons for not killing an animal like this (a spirit one) are more cultural. By modern standards the "right" thing to do would be to take it out of the gene pool. My beliefs don't make sense to a lot of people and that's ok but I also expect people to respect them as I do theirs. I have quite a few things I do and don't do, believe and don't...some would really raise some eyebrows with present day thinking but they are part of my upbringing and go back a long ways and I continue them out of truly believing and respect for my ancestors....end of my rant, thanks
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Chromebuck on March 22, 2013, 08:17:00 PM
Great post Gregg.  As they say here "one sword sharpens the other".

I never understood why some states make the harvest of albino or a piebald illegal.  Michigan being one of them if memory serves me still.

~CB
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Bud B. on March 22, 2013, 08:58:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
 
QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
Maybe I'm a jerk, ...
Nope...just making different choices. Nut'n wrong with that. [/b]
I was supporting jsweka's decision to shoot an albino. I would not do it for the personal reasons I have.

QuoteOriginally posted by gregg dudley:
 
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
I'd pass...but around here she'd have been killed when she was a fawn, most likely. Like the white buffalo I think they're a specialty in nature and only nature should take her/them (albinos)

Now white hares and ptarmigan? Dead right there!!
Definitely NOT picking a fight, but I like good conversation.  This sentiment always leaves me scratching my head.  As hunters we embrace our rightful place at the top of the food chain.  Are we not then an integral part of nature?      ;)  [/b]
It's basically just a personal choice. I hunt mainly for the connection WITH nature, not as a killer, but, if taking game is the measure of a successful hunt then killing is necessary. I measure a successful hunt in just being out there with the option to do it or not to. For me it's not for survival. But hunting does mean you have to accept the fact that you are a killer of something. I think what separates us from the laws of nature is we now, for the most of us, have a choice.

It's kinda like not shooting a button buck or a doe accompanied by a spotted fawn. It's plainly and simply a personal choice. Not much conversation in that. I don't scratch my head or begrudge anyone for making opposing choices in hunting or alot of other things.


White hares and white ptarmigan are not rare. I've shot my share of them when I lived in Alaska.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1714106697001/rare-white-buffalo-born-on-farm-in-connecticut/
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Deeter on March 22, 2013, 09:33:00 PM
Its amazing what you come across in the woods.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: adeeden on March 22, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
I agree it's 100% a personal choice. Huntings a personal thing to make Taking a critters life is serious business sometimes my mind says that's the one, but sometimes it says that's not the one to!

Anyway this ones safe from me I enjoy keeping tabs on her. I'm pulling for her to make it and can't wait to see if she fawns this year. A lot of the fawns get bred there first year around here.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: gregg dudley on March 22, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
Bud,  as a hunter I know that you don't have the disconnect with nature that many non-hunters do.  Personal choice is a legitimate claim and logic need not be a part of it.  Our inconsistencies are often what make us interesting.  I don't begrudge you yours and hopefully you won't begrudge me mine.  But feel free to scratch your head at will.    ;)
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Bud B. on March 23, 2013, 08:09:00 AM
If you could get a pic of her with a fawn that would be one awesome picture Dennis. Hopefully you'll be able to post one soon.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: Devo on March 23, 2013, 11:33:00 AM
Wow very fun to see this photos. Can't say I've ever seen any albino in the wild. It seems like whitetail are more prone to albinism than mule deer or other deer species (moose, elk). Anybody notice the same thing or have an idea why this may be the case? I here there are a lot of whitetail back east! Maybe the odds are just higher in a bigger population.

Regardless, cool pics! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The ghost doe.
Post by: monsterbuck on March 23, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
That's neat! Thanks for sharing. God bless.