I ran both sets of limbs of my TT through the chronograph with three different arrows. Once I get the arrows tuned I'll run them through again in a larger group to get a better average but these numbers give me a good idea of what I've got. Since I had it set up I ran the older RER recurve through it as well.
Note, none of the arrows were tuned to either bow. I just had them around and decided to shoot them. However, according to the dynamic spine calculator, the 250's should be perfect for the 51# limbs and 150's for the 45# limbs. It's nice that both those limb/arrow combinations are right about the same speed. It's eery how accurate the arrow speed is in that calculator.
Heritage 150
434 gn
100 gn tip
30"
Heritage 250
509 gn
145 gn tip
30.25"
Trad 600
356 gn
100 gn tip
30.5"
TT 45#
150 - 183.5 fps
250 - 172 fps
600 - 199 fps
TT 51#
150 - 193 fps
250 - 180 fps
600 - 206 fps
RER 47#
150 - 180 fps
250 - 167 fps
600 - 190 fps
Brian,
Was the RER the Arroyo model or a takedown and what was the RER length if ya don't mind me asking? Thanks,
Keefers <><
The RER is a takedown recurve that I bought used from the classifieds last year. I think it was one of the first models they made. The tips aren't as static as the newer RER's. All three combos are 60" bows and measured at 28". I draw 27.5".
I've not taken actual measurement of the draw weight on my scale. The RER is noticeably lighter in the hand as well.
Thanks Brian I appreciate the quick reply back...Reason I ask is I have a new 2012 model Arroyo but it's 50# @28" and 58" long...Just trying to figure something out with my set up...
Keefers <><
The test results may prove interesting.
Would recommend not subjecting the fine 51# Tall Tines to the extemely light 7.2 gpp test arrow.
1. May damage limbs
2. May void the warranty
3. 7 gpp results provide little if any value to the trad hunter
4. The bow deserves much better treatment
QuoteOriginally posted by Friend:
[QB] The test results may prove interesting.
Would recommend not subjecting the fine 51# Tall Tines to the extemely light 7.2 gpp test arrow.
Agreed. It was just a test.
That's 6.9 gpp with the 51# bow. I am surprised the limbs did not blow up. Did it shoot much louder and more shocky than usual with those arrows? Those speeds are very impressive especially with only 27.5" draw.
Nope. Other than the louder thunk when the arrow hit the target the bow was just as quiet as with the heavier arrows.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nativestranger:
Did it shoot much louder and more shocky than usual with those arrows? Those speeds are very impressive especially with only 27.5" draw.
dont let brian know you shot with that light of an arrow.....
Brian already knows.
QuoteOriginally posted by pamike:
dont let brian know you shot with that light of an arrow.....
Nice results...not surprised!
As far as being scolded by Wessel...been there, done that! I've had him give me that fatherly look while shaking his head a couple times. One of the only things that beats Wessels bows is his demeanour!
I haven't been scolded, yet.
That is a little surprising to me for the rer numbers. I have a vortex that shot 189fps at 9gpp, and it is noticeably slower that my rer takedown recurve. I haven't seen many bows that could outperform my rer recurve, especially not by that margin. Then again, my drawlength is a little over 29".
You gain about 10 fps for every extra inch of draw length. Similar to dropping 1 gpp. Which is why long draw archers have a big advantage. They can shoot way over 200 fps without going under 9 gpp or damaging their bows.
Thanks for taking the time to do this test and post results as I have a Tall Tines going to be shipped from a member via the classifieds. Same specs 51#@28. The results are positive even though I shoot wood (fir) arrows 600-630 grns, it gives me something to look forward too. Ken
I forgot that the TT is a 62" bow while the RER is 60". Not that at makes much difference but I just wanted to correct myself.
QuoteOriginally posted by parshal:
All three combos are 60" bows and measured at 28". I draw 27.5".
Nativestranger... Could you please qualify your previous statement?
I would question that if the draw length increased from 28" to 29"s, even including an ~3# draw wt increase, would yield as much as a 10 fps gain.
Gotta agree with you on this one, friend. And my gpp included the weight at my draw. The TT bows are very nice, but the stats for that RER would make it about the slowest one that I have seen. Too bad.
Several times I have seen people give results on bows that they chronographed under as good of conditions as they could that were over 20 fps off, Seen it both ways so I wouldn't get too upset about seeing one of my favorite bows showing slower speeds than I expect it too.
The only way to know for sure is to have them tested mechanicaly and under very professional controled circumstances.
Then you can go shoot it slower with your fingers LOL. :campfire:
God bless you all, Steve
What Sixby said!!!
I've never claimed to be a good archer, mediocre at best. Both bows would be different in someone else's hands.
Regarding the RER, the bow is not a newer one. It's one of the first models that they built. The static tips aren't nearly as static as the newer models and I'm sure it's a bit tired as well. I would make no comparison between my RER and a newer model.
QuoteOriginally posted by Friend:
Nativestranger... Could you please qualify your previous statement?
I would question that if the draw length increased from 28" to 29"s, even including an ~3# draw wt increase, would yield as much as a 10 fps gain.
It depends on the bow but its been my experience that on average an inch longer draw can produce up to 10fps faster arrow speed. Each Ib adds about 1.5fps - 2fps and every additional inch adds about 5fps if keeping the gpp the same.
A good bow adds about 2 1/2 to 3 lb per inch of draw , I extra inch of draw would by your calcs add about 4 to 5 fps , not 10. a half inch less than 28 in should only take a couple of fps off the arrow speed; My personal testing pretty much bears this out too.
God bless you all, Steve
It's all good info, and I am not upset or anything. I have owned and shot many different makes of bows and I am not a cheerleader for any one model. Good luck with the TT. Sounds like you have a very nice bow.
Just to add an extra spice to the conversation, what about powerstroke? (A term I've come to loath). You know, the additional length the arrow will travel while still attached to the string ... does that increase the transfer of stored energy to the arrow?
I've heard this phenomenon explained, by better than me, until I'm tired but under this theory (or is it fact?) the fps increase is exponentially greater, due the added inch, than it would be just increasing the draw weight alone.
Sorry for being a bit off-topic and tech-ie.
Jedi: Power stroke is not a term to loath. It simply describes a fact. People in general at times ascribe almost magicical propertys to some of the terms, Cast vs speed ect and even make outrageous claims. Most completely unfounded and the rest based on incomplete understanding or improper or imperfect testing.
adding an inch of powerstroke on one end of the draw does basicaly the same thing as adding it on the other end. Lower brace or longer draw. If you are drawing 25 inches instead of 28 then you lose approximately 9 lbs of draw weight power. Whatever that is for the efficiency of the bow.
For a rule of thumb and easy figuring I generally see that as about 9 to 10 fps.
If the brace of my bow was eight inches and I can take it to 6 inches and gain two inches of the power stroke back on the brace end then I add about six fps back on to the draw challenged shooter. He now loses only 2 to 3 fps instead of 9 r ten.
Its really pretty simple physics. It is scientific and real. Now if I can shorten the working area of the limb so that it returns faster I can literally make up for most of the loss completely.
But that is another story
Jedi?) the fps increase is exponentially greater, due the added inch, than it would be just increasing the draw weight alone.
No. If the power curve of the bow is relatively even then its the same or close to it. This is not expotentially more. That is one of the myths that is not based in fact; Again the cast vs speed which in the real world are exactly the same; There is never a place where a slower bow will cast an identical arrow further than a faster bow; The faster bow will always shoot the arrow further. That is the truth and that truth constitutes a fact that is scientific. Speed and cast are different terms of expression that are really based on efficiency.
God bless you all, Steve
Until nobody measured exact weight of those bows brace height, string material, strand count type and numbers of silencers if any and shooting Is not done on a shooting machine or at least with a clicker it Is very difficult to make any conclusion.
Most of the fastest glass recurve hunting bows on the market like RER, SCHAFFER, MORRISSON TALL TINES ROSE OAK, BLACKTAIL, WHIPPENSTICK and a few others i did not chronoed' yet ( not the hot rod) are within 5-6 fps in speed difference, all in the low 180 fps range for 10 gpp at 28" and medium brace height. To shoot a game up to 25 yards, nothing something like 2-4# or less than 40 grains in arrow weight could compensate thus not really a signifiant difference for bowhunting
Thank Sixby for shedding some light on the subject. I like it plain and simple without the voodoo science. I appreciate your candor.
Hybridow hunter, I recently acquired a RER Vital. It was your posts that lit that fire. Thank you, it is quite a bow and all I had hoped it would be.
One day I will have opportunity to try the Tall Tines. I'm sure it is a fine bow in it's own respects.
QuoteOriginally posted by hybridbow hunter:
Until nobody measured exact weight of those bows brace height, string material, strand count type and numbers of silencers if any and shooting Is not done on a shooting machine or at least with a clicker it Is very difficult to make any conclusion.
Most of the fastest glass recurve hunting bows on the market like RER, SCHAFFER, MORRISSON TALL TINES ROSE OAK, BLACKTAIL, WHIPPENSTICK and a few others i did not chronoed' yet ( not the hot rod) are within 5-6 fps in speed difference, all in the low 180 fps range for 10 gpp at 28" and medium brace height. To shoot a game up to 25 yards, nothing something like 2-4# or less than 40 grains in arrow weight could compensate thus not really a signifiant difference for bowhunting
In your experience how much does string silencers and skinny strings affect the performance?
Silencers usually may eat something like 2-3fps: catwiskers less than a big wool ball and the further from the tip you put the silencers, the more Is the speed loss..
Low strand count vs. Normal count Is a tricky problem: if both string are perfectly made from the same material, pre stretched or lightly used with the same serving and silencers speed loss Is low around 2 fps going from 16 strand to 8 strand as i chronoed on my bows at same brace height. Difference may be MUCH higher if you compare a good low strand count string with minimal serving with a less than perfect " normal string" with too much twist, too long serving, no pre streching.
When i got my Toelke lynx , Dan put 2 very good endless 14 strand Dacron string with the bow. They were perfectly made with no twist and minimal serving ( but enough) and after a 100 shots they were giving a 7.5" brace height : i weighted and then chronoed the bow. I then switched for an SBDBOWSTRING 10 strand , shot a 100 arrows and then put 7.5" BH and weighted again the bow and chronoed it with same arrow: the SBDbowstring was only 5 fps faster than Dan ยด s string but the bow heavier by 0.5-0.6# at 31". ( as the Dacron Is little strechy) so not a Big difference indeed. I let the SBDbowstring on the bow though.
A Big myth in Archery died that day for me LoL
Indeed the string construction matters as much as the material itself. I have 12 strand endless dacron string with minimal twists and it chronos right up there with a Flemish 8 strand D10 and 9 strand UC. Maybe 1-2 fps difference max but the skinny Flemish FF are quieter. Thank you for sharing.
I took the bow to Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear and tuned the bow properly. I ran the resulting arrows through a full 10 shots and here are the results. It looks like the bow likes an 11 gpp arrow at 170 fps.
I'm a 28" draw. The chrony was exactly 3' from the back of the grip.
45# limbs
11.29 gpp
Low 168.3
Hi 172.4
Avg 170.2
51# limbs
11.24 gpp
Low 171.2
Hi 174.2
Avg 172.5