I don't understand the term "TRADITIONAL ARCHERY" I have been shooting for about 50yrs. and when the compounds came out and got popular , I was ridiculed for shooting a "STICK BOW" . Now people are amazed to find out that you shoot a Long Bow or a Recurve .
I had another "BOW HUNTER" that I came across in the woods with his HI TECH EVERYTHING see my little K Mag and asked me " Can you actually kill a deer with that thing ? " He wasn't joking and I couldn't believe he said that . Well I am not wanting to step on any toes but how about we call it "REAL ARCHERY" instead of TRADITIONAL ? I know that wont happen but I wonder if there is anybody else that feels the same way that I do .
I like it
I think using the phrase "Real Archery" would imply a sense of elitism, something that I have yet to encounter when meeting any fellow trad shooters who on the contrary have been the most welcoming bunch I've seen.
The realization that not everyone is cut out for the self discipline necessary to hunt with a stick bow has allowed me the luxury of shrugging off comments from non trad guys.
I caution that fine line of pride which would ultimately lead to division, something the hunting community can't afford.
In my opinion the better course is representing this passion of ours through example and in turn providing the public at large an alternative to the "hunting" mainstream media is displaying. A stellar example of this is the DVD Primal Dreams.
In short I don't necessarily disagree with your post, just caution the interpretation of it.
Bruin..not gonna lie or mince words, I feel the same way exactly. I started with a recurve in my tweens and teens, put the bow down for many years and last year took up the bow again with a wheelie and very shortly after one day I was traipsing through the woods and just blurted out "this is bull$&@/!!" I bought a Samick Sage, put the wheelie down for good and have never looked back. I now own a plethora of trad bows of all types and love it like crazy. I go out in the woods now and feel totally confident I can get the job done at the normal ranges you find in Florida scrub. Why the heck did I need a "bow" that could take 60 yd shots?! It was a slow shooting gun with strings attached IMHO. If I want that I got a Marlin. Yeah it's called 'trad' cause its old school maybe but its the REAL deal for sure. But to each his own. I got no problem with whatever floats someone's boat. I always respond to wheelie shooters teasing with grace and information.
PS: NBK made a great point!!
I still show respect and have fun shooting along side of compound shooters but I get that feeling every time I go to the range. Always entertaining watching all the tinkering with all the fancy do-dads while I'm flinging woodies.
I am just airing a little confusion about the attitude that came about during the late 70s threw the 80s concerning those that didn't shoot the compounds . I worked part time in an archery shop at the time , would tune and set up those contraptions but just didn't enjoy them . Seemed to take the spirit out of the whole thing . I hope that I am not coning across as arrogant or prideful , just don't understand why the ridicule back then and now it is WOW you can do that .
Bruin, I seriously didn't take your original post as being arrogant and I share your feelings on the subject. I'm grateful for this site where at times we can vent to the choir knowing that you'll be understood. Shoot straight. :thumbsup:
How about:
"Proper Archery"
"Manly Archery"
But then, there's a lot of guys here using compound bow arrows instead of wood so I don't konw if we should get too critical. ;-)
Lol long as the finish is wood grain!! Hahaha. I love and use both options.
I hear ya, next time let 'em shoot your bow. I've had nothing but good stuff happen when running into other bowhunters. Usually they say "Nice bow, man, but I couldn't shoot that!" To which I reply, "Yeah you can, here ya go..."
Made a couple elk huntin' buds like that...
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l502/MrDwood/DSCN1358.jpg)
Here we are on a stumpin'/scoutin' trip. Got 'em both hunting turkeys with me that year.
Ya, go Stumpkiller
Cant call it Manly cause my wife would shoot me with her Bear Cub !
I too have had people ask if my bow can really kill a deer or whatever.......I try and explain how stick bows were around LONG before the "machines" that they shoot......some will listen ,some won't........it is funny though...in most of the Bowhunter ED. classes that I teach, most "traditional" shooters out shoot the "modern" guys on the practical shooting course...go figure ?????? :dunno:
I rarely use the words "Traditional Archery". I hunt and shoot for myself, not so that others might recognize me or my "skill". I have friends who use compounds, and they are no less hunters or woodsman than I am.
Being fairly new to archery hunting, my experience with the compound was not good. Too many gizmos and I did not shoot it well. After that I went to a crossbow which is legal for hunting in PA. Very accurate and lethal, but just plain boring. I still use it occasionally, but went to traditional bows a year ago and am having a blast. It takes alot of dedication, and many simply go compound because the compound is perceived to be more accurate. However, I have found that a traditional bow forces you to have good form and flawless execution, 2 things that you don't necessarily learn by shooting a compound.
I have way too much respect for the hardcore hunters out there, who choose to shoot a wheeled wonder toy, to say that I hunt the "real" way or the "right" way. There are a lot of guys who can out hunt me any day of the week using training wheels. To them it isn't a crutch and they probably practice more than I do.
Guess I'm just tipping my hat to anyone who hunts hard and is respectful to the sport, traditional or not.
Who cares what you call it, shoot what you like, and have fun doing it, and don't worry about what others think about it.
Well said TtD. I know guys who hunt with selfbows they made themselves, using arrows made from cane or other natural materials, and flint points. Guys who hunt with muzzleloaders they made themselves. Guys who use nothing but dogs and big knives to kill pigs.
I know folks that use wheels to hunt with who are some of the best and most dedicated hunters I've ever met.
Using the term "traditional" is just convenient to me. Folks know what you are talking about--it defines the type bow you are using--that's all. You define whether or not you are a "real hunter".
The word Traditional is overused a lot and I am guilty of it myself. But let us also consider that the crossbow is a very old weapon and there have been many "heated" debates on whether or not users of crossbows should be considered archers.
Bruinbow, I totally agree with you that the use of a longbow, recurve and stickbow does warrant proper respect and attention by the hunting community and governing agencies.
Personally speaking, I would love to see the state game departments allow users of primitive archery a special season much like some states do for primitive firearms. But defining what is considered primitive or traditional could take years and years of debate. Again, look at the crossbow for example. Could it be as simple as not allowing the use of sights, modern broadheads and the weapon must be made entirely of wood and string? Where does one stop? What is the defining element of modern?
One of the benifits of being human is that we tend to constantly evolve and improve. Modern stickbows with the use of fiberglass, modern adhesives and improved string materials are a far cry from the bows used by the native Americans and their predecessors. This is only the bow now and the evolution of the arrow, well that's a very long discussion too.
Here is my last point and then I will step down from the "soap box". The pursuit and hunting of game is a privilege that we currently all share. Division amongst hunters can and will likely lead to the restraint and possible loss of this time honored tradition and priviledge. We must all be careful not to offend others that share our passion to pursue game and instead welcome and encourage other similar minded folks that will allow further strength in numbers and defense of our love of this sport.
Right now I just like to hunt with flintlocks that I build and recurves.
I had a guy ask me one time why I hunted with a flintlock.."You trying to be Daniel Boone or something"? I told him "No, I just decided one day to see what it would be like to hunt like Ole Daniel did and liked it."
Had a guy ask me a couple yrs ago when he saw me coming out of the woods with my recurve.."You don't have a compound?" I told him "I got a good one, just like hunting with this recurve better."
I started in the 50's with stickbows, went to compounds for many yrs in the mid 70's and never did join up with the new trad stuff. Sometimes I don't know if my recurves are old fashion or too modern.
One other short story I might add to this conversation... Last elk season I was fortunate enough to have hunted in OR with 9 other guys on a private ranch. All 9 were using modern compounds. They saw that I could shoot with any of them within 40 yards when we shot in camp for practice. By the end of the week most of the guys were asking me why I shot a longbow and how could they too get into shooting one too. You see it was simple logistics. My bow was easier and lighter to carry and so was my quiver. After a few days of marching up and down the mountains carrying their equipment, they were alll looking to lighten-up. I believe 6 of the 9 other guys have now switched to a different quiver system and several of them are now practicing with traditional equipment.
I know what the thread author is getting at and I certainly recognize the potential differences among folks who hunt with different equipment.
I'm a big tent fellow. I don't care what someone calls my equipment preferences as long as I remain legal and can satisfy what I'm trying to get out of hunting.
"Real" archery can quickly be interpreted "Real" hunter.
By these definitions I was a "real" hunter from age 14-21. Then I joined the unreal ranks from 1975-2009. I became a real hunter again (according to this) in 2010. If some self, long, or recurve bow fellows referred to me as something less than themselves because of my equipment choices, I wouldn't have a dozen recurves cluttering up my house these days.
We only impress ourselves with such labeling.
Hair splitting has turned me off to the use of the word "Traditional". I'm simply a bowhunter who prefers recurves these days.
The other guy can hunt with and how ever suits him as long as he stays out of my tree (preferably out of my bow range).
A traditional bow in the hand of someone who takes the time to practice and learn to make the bow and arrow as extension of his or her self is a far more superior hunting weapon at 20 yards and in no need to range just pick a spot, anchor, and let we' fly. I will argue this with anyone that disputes it. Have lots of friends that tot training wheels and those stupid horizontal things. As long as someone is ethical, a good steward of the land, responsible, and good hunter who are we to judge? The problem with the horizontal things is that it is an open invitation to slobs joining us in the bow woods, I will say this too just because someone is a "traditional archer" doesn't make them any of te things I listed before, in fact in know a few guys that have no right walking in the woods with a stick bow due to te fact they couldn't hit a freakinf garbage can at 15 yards
"No Let-off Archery"
I tend to stay away from kidding people I don't know very well, because they might take it the wrong way. But around our club, we probably tend to kid the compounders more than they kid us. Probably just our personalities, I guess. Things like, "You shoot that thing pretty well. Have you ever thought about taking up archery?" Or, "I think I read that there was a recall notice issued on your bow, something about the cup-holders not retracting properly?" And of course endless variations on the theme of allen wrenches.
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpkiller:
How about:
"Proper Archery"
"Manly Archery"
But then, there's a lot of guys here using compound bow arrows instead of wood so I don't konw if we should get too critical. ;-)
There you go making sense. This is the internet, there will be none of that here. :D
I shoot with a 66" longbow at my club with one other truly dedicated longbow shooter. We are gradually winning a few compound guys over to our side when they see how much fun we're having. They watch us adjust the brace height by turning our strings, and are amazed that we can tune the bow to our arrows by doing that. They watch us with our new, cool looking wood arrows that we stained and fletched ourselves. They are intrigued at how well we can actually shoot and are amazed when we hit the 11 ring on a 30 yard 3D shot. They don't understand how we can shoot so well without sites. But they can see how much we enjoy it, notice our dedication to it, and admire our passion for it and because of that a few now join us with their recurves and longbows. And because of it all,the guys at our club are now in the planning stages for hosting some trad only 3D shoots.
Yeah, "Traditional Archery" probably not a good term. Traditional is something passed from generation to generation. If we were doing that then this type of Archery would be bigger and the grass roots Base with a smaller compound and cross bow avenues. As far as what they say about my bow and killing things I think I could get two arrows in them before they new what yardage I was at. LOL. Guess I would go with "OLD SCHOOL ARCHERY." Nice T-shirt and hat anyway. I started with a Sapling and String. Passed that on to my Kids and Grandkids.
I like the being it called Traditional Archery. For me it implies that I am doing something that my forefathers did for thousands of years. And I am having fun doing it.
Back in the late 70's and 80's when I would go to 3D shoots, I would shoot in the bare bow glass and I don't recall any one else shooting a longbow or recurve except for me. All my friends that I hunted with shot compounds and still do. I consider myself a bowhunter and find that I don't agree with 90% of the values of most hunters, no matter what they call themselves.
I Didn't know I was a traditional bowhunter until the magazine came out in 1989.
THUMP : That's the point of my original post . Why is it called TRADITIONAL when we didn't change ? Why don't they call the wheelies COMPOUND SHOOTERS ? Nothing wrong with shooting a compound I just don't feel that it is the true spirit of ARCHERY . And I am not nit picking , that group looks down on the guys that still shoot eccentric wheels in stead of cams . When will it stop ?
Quit worrying about titles, names and other such nonsense a long time ago. Could care less what any one calls their form archery.
I do find it odd to have an issue with the term "trad" on a site named Trad Gang dedicated to trad bow hunting.
I call people who use recurves and longbows Archers.
I just quit and sold my wheel bow. I shot compounds for 20 years. I just made the switch to trad about a month ago. Decided that the ole kmag was alot more fun to shoot and simple. You miss with a stick bow its your fault. You cant blame an arrow rest or your sight pins being off like ya can on a compound. I will say I never looked down on anyone throwin arrows at critters no matter if it was with a stick bow or a compound. As for myself Im just another BOW HUNTER.
I believe most compound hunters are just uninformed about "traditional bows". Also the history of bowhunting, the people, and the bows.
Honestly I was really uninformed before I went to a longbow. Had no clue that people seriously hunted with something other than compounds.
In 95 I was walking out of a public hunting area in Oklahoma carrying my very heavy compound and met up with a fella near the parking area that was carrying a Dan Quillian Patriot recurve. We talked briefly and I asked him if I could see his bow. As I looked it over and drew it back I asked if he had killed anything with it that year. He shared stories of his hunts that season. Less than a month later I had ordered a Bob Lee Signature recurve and a lifelong passion was born. I wasn't at all being arrogant or looking down my nose at his bow when I asked if he had killed anything with it that year; rather I was amazed at the beauty and simplicity of his bow and thinking I needed to get a bow like that. Your post reminded me of that day and I try to keep that in mind when I meet up with compound shooters in the woods. Wish I knew that guys name; I'd like to thank him for sharing his traditional archery experience with me that day.
Sometimes I wonder about the term "traditional archery".
When I started shooting there was just archery. Compounds had not come on the scene yet.
I do agree the best way to convert someone is for them to see how much fun you are having and how easy it it. However when we are around guys we know well, then let the insults fly. But this is a good natured and we don't do it to guys we don't know. But it is fun to act like you picked up a screw off the ground at a 3D shoot and ask " Somebody lose an allen screw?"
On a serious note, I will have no patience for somebody asking " Can you kill anything with that". To which I normally answer " Go on downrange about 20 yards and we'll see".
I'm totally amazed at how many have no knowledge of the history of archery and bowhunting.
I hunt with the compounders in my club they almost act as if I dont even have a chance.I dont say a darn thing back to them.I will say this, when the sun went down I was the ONLYONE dragging deer an not one but two!!! one whitetail an one sika hind.they were all speachless,In all, they could not belive it.that night at camp it was my turn to talk s@%t.I just laught at them an say what in the hell do you think the indians did? I was proud an slept well that night.Iam not one to brag but it never hurts to punch a bully in the mouth once in a while.Iam looked at in an entirely differnt light.I like being the underdog it keeps ya focused...ED
What a person shoots has a lot to do with confidence.......if the wheel boys where confident with themselves, they'd all go traditional.
They just don't think they can do it.
It would have upset me too, but honestly I don't care or listen to it anymore. The comment made as ignorant. I have no doubt they are new to archery.
At the other end of the spectrum, I've had compound shooters tell me I'm one of the nicer trad guys they've met and that I don't walk around thinking I'm better than everyone.
At the end of the day, we're all lucky to hunt and have rights. That privledge only happens collectively from all of the shooting sports. Stay classy.
The way I see it is like this. We, "Tradgangers" are "The Woodwright's Shop" and compound hunters are "The Yankee Woodshop"!!! Just different philosophy.
I think I am showing my age here. For those who are not familiar with these references. These woodworking shows were aired on PBS quite a few years back. One show utilized traditional tools i.e., no power tools at all. The other utilized any modern tools available. They were both great craftmen.
QuoteOriginally posted by The Whittler:
I like the being it called Traditional Archery. For me it implies that I am doing something that my forefathers did for thousands of years. And I am having fun doing it.
Me too :thumbsup:
I have nothing against compounds at all. People should shoot whatever they enjoy and are comfortable with. But, I've shot compounds and didn't get any joy or satisfaction out of them. To me they are not really a bow but a machine. A very effective machine, but not really a bow that touches the soul like a trad bow does. To me trad archery is a spiritual or maybe a primal thing that speaks to our ancestoral roots. Anyway I really enjoy a bent stick, all be it a very refined bent stick.