Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bible5 on February 15, 2013, 08:49:00 AM

Title: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Bible5 on February 15, 2013, 08:49:00 AM
What are the toughest wooden arrow shafts #55-60 range ? Also why are wooden arrow shafts sooo expensive ?  It seems like Easton aluminum shafts are only slightly more $ then woodies.
 (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8244/8467271797_07137ac465.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18114879@N08/8467271797/)
donenanaarrow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18114879@N08/8467271797/)  by  paul_m_weiss (http://www.flickr.com/people/18114879@N08/) , on Flickr
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: snag on February 15, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
If you look at the process for making each I think aluminums are the ones that are too expensive. They can turn on a machine and fill a room with aluminums pretty quickly. But wood you have saw and split the bolts, then saw flitches, let them dry and season them, then run them through a molder/doweler, sand them, grade them, spine them, weigh them....after all this you have about 50% waste through this process that takes months.
Oh then the shaft manufacturers have to pay the excise tax on each shaft that is about $.40 (as I recall)!!! While the carbon and aluminum manufacturers have to pay this tax also it is a much smaller impact on their bottom line than for wood shaft manufacturers. Once again gov't making it easier to do business...NOT!
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Surewood Steve on February 15, 2013, 10:37:00 AM
I will answer the question on why wood arrow shafts are so expensive.  As arrow shaft manufacturers we must pay the Government a Federal Excise Tax (FET)on every dozen we sell except kids shafts.  That fee is $5.52/dozen.  That is passed on to you and every arrow maker.  That Tax is the same on wood, carbon or aluminum.  Thanks Surewood Steve
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Bible5 on February 15, 2013, 10:54:00 AM
Thanks for the answer..that really stinks!  I suppose the Govt would tax the air the arrows use to spin if they could! I haven't had to think about buying shafts for awhile that's what is bringing this to my mind. So I still like woodies and I enjoy the creativity off making my own arrows. Those in my pic look pretty nice to me !  But again, What are the choices for the strongest (least likely to break)shafts in the #55-60 range ? I've heard of polished bamboo, laminated birch, laminated fir but I've only used cedar so any expert advice would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Zradix on February 15, 2013, 11:03:00 AM
strongest I've used is ash.
They could really take a beating.
They were a pain to keep straight though...may have been a couple bad batches...
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Mike Vines on February 15, 2013, 11:04:00 AM
I shot cedars for a while and got tired of retappering them because they broke behind the head.  I wwnt on the search for the perfect shaft for me (straight, nice weight, strengrh and most importantly had to have nice looking grain when stained)  I settled on douglas fir from Surewood.  Gave me everything I was looking for and then some.

Hopefully that helps you.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Mike Most on February 15, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
I footed some douglas fir with osage up front and they seemed indestructable.......
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Bjorn on February 15, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
Ash and Hickory are extremely tough and if you buy top quality they can stay pretty straight too. By far the best compromise today is Doug Fir-IMO. Pretty tough and straight-and stays that way. I always recommend buying the best wood available, after all arrows are the most important part of your kit.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 15, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
Maple is the toughest I have ever used. However, Ash and white birch are extemely durable.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: joe skipp on February 15, 2013, 11:33:00 AM
Toughest I have shot have been tapered ash and Don Stokes SuperCeeders(Magnolia). Thinking about trying some Surewood shafts this summer. I hear they stand up to the rigors of hunting and stumpin.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Rob W. on February 15, 2013, 11:58:00 AM
I haven't managed to break a poplar yet.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: ZaneD on February 15, 2013, 11:58:00 AM
Sometimes I think that wood shafts are expensive, but then I think about what it would take for me to make my own shafts. Would I rather order a dozen for ~ $40, or locate a fir/spruce/cedar tree, cut it down, split into shafts, etc.? For me the answer is simple.

I haven't tried any hardwood shafts yet, but I've often been surprised by the durability of Douglas fir and sitka spruce. I've had plenty of direct tree impacts, and glancing hits without breaking my arrows.

Zane
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Flying Dutchman on February 15, 2013, 12:02:00 PM
As usual; a mixed bag....   :)   I have very good results with Sitka Spruce. They seem very strong and are easy to straighten, probably due to the long fibers.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Rob W. on February 15, 2013, 12:07:00 PM
double post  :banghead:
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: RunninWild77 on February 15, 2013, 12:12:00 PM
Hickory and ash, and birch, heavy and tough arrows.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Zradix on February 15, 2013, 12:15:00 PM
Spruce is way tougher than cedar.

Spruce is siad to be stronger than Douglas fir though I can't confirm that as I've never dealt with fir.

Spruce is nowhere near as tough as ash....
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Gordon Jabben on February 15, 2013, 12:58:00 PM
Don't forget for the primitive archer, dogwood and river cane are almost unbreakable.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Gator1 on February 15, 2013, 01:09:00 PM
Nice thing with the Surewoods, is there is a gentleman here that builds quality arrows...

Snag is the man.

wildernesss custom arows

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: meathead on February 15, 2013, 02:56:00 PM
Hickory is the toughest I have found.  You end up doing a lot of straightening.  I like the toughness of laminated birch.  Makes a good stumping arrow, but almost every arrow in my shop is doug. fir from Surewood.  May not be the toughest but makes a real nice arrow.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: JamesKerr on February 15, 2013, 03:11:00 PM
The toughest wood shafting is by far the hardwoods like hickory, ash, laminated birch, and others the downside is they are usually way to heavy for bows under 50# to shoot without a rainbow arc and they can be hard to keep straight. A good compromise is bamboo or river cane with a hardwood point foreshaft or douglas fir.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: LostNation_Larry on February 15, 2013, 03:50:00 PM
Toughest wood I've used is hickory, but I have some shafts that would never stay straight.  My second choice for tough is chundoo.

The excise tax is .46 per shaft and if you EVER hunt public land then you should not complain about that tax.  The one valid complaint is the proportion of the tax.  It was supposed to be 11% of the original wholesale cost but foreign manufacturers of carbon shafts messed it up.  I am not sure how, but the resolution was a flat tax instead of a percentage.  Cedar took the worst beating.
The money goes to fund hunting, fishing and other outdoor recreation.  I don't enjoy paying taxes but I like seeing my tax dollars used where I can enjoy them.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: R.V.T.B. on February 15, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
I used to shoot cedar and chundo shafts. I have been shooting Surewood Douglas fir for a couple of years now and have really been impressed with how tough they are.  Hands down the straightest wooden shafts I have ever messed with as well.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on February 15, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
What the heck - let em break   ;)   Just a good reason to make more   :clapper:
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: gringol on February 15, 2013, 04:15:00 PM
spruce is NOT tougher than fir.  It isn't even close.  Spruce is touted as the "toughest shaft material by weight" which may be true, but because it's so light it isn't toughest in absolute terms.

Ash and hickory are about the toughest, but fir isn't very far behind and at lot easier to keep straight.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: ron w on February 15, 2013, 04:24:00 PM
ASH.......Laminated birch is pretty tough also!
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: rainman on February 15, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
Not wood but my vote goes for Bamboo, after that compressed Ramin from the Cedarsmith, I have 7 from a dozen I bought 17 years ago.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Maxx Black on February 15, 2013, 04:59:00 PM
I've been shooting hexshafts,are these referred to as laminated birch? They have been the toughest for me .
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: GoBow on February 15, 2013, 06:17:00 PM
Hickory might well be one of the toughest commonly used shafts out there.  But Ash surely ranks way up there and makes a real pretty arrow.  If I ever go back to woodies, it'd be Ash hands down!
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 15, 2013, 07:19:00 PM
Hickory & Ash are the toughest... Axe, shovel handles and ballbats...that Tuff-Nuff?

Maxx,  Hexshafts are laminated lodgepole pine (chundoo)If you look at the end of the shaft, the laminations look like a pie that has been sliced into pieces. Laminated birch is basicaly birch plywood.

Eric
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: darin putman on February 15, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
Although I haven't shot awhole lot of different woods, I have shot POC and douglas fir, my experience is SUREWOODS, SUREWOODS, and more SUREWOODS!!!I love them shafts, take em out stumping and test em out, you will be suprised. Indestructible no but one tough shaft, definintely!!! If they costed more than aluminum I'd still shoot em, I've stumped with both and aluminum although a great product in it's own right and close tolerances ain't in the same league when it comes to stumping bends and warps too easily for me!Just ordered two dozen surewoods for my son last night, always suprised at how quickly they arrive and how straight they are.Love to stain and build them although mine are pretty plain, my sons are drawn to them anyway. I have bought some high priced wooden shafts but for what you get for your money SUREWOODS are the best deal around!!!
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: David Yukon on February 15, 2013, 08:59:00 PM
I have cedar, DF, and now I will try Larch(Tamarack) I really like the wood, hope it makes great arrows!! And the guy is suppose to send me a few ironwood shaft as well....
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: nineworlds9 on February 15, 2013, 09:35:00 PM
My vote is for poplar
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: High Desert Hunter on February 16, 2013, 01:20:00 AM
I have had good luck with Chundoo and Douglas Fir.  Where I live there aren't many stumps, mostly yucca, cactus and rocks.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: overbo on February 16, 2013, 06:51:00 AM
Most hardwood shafts I've tried are very tough but when you average 6 or less per dz that are high quality,it gets expensive.

For the money and quality,
I would choose lam. birch but if you want a very tough arro w/out massive physical weight.I would go w/ a softwood shaft w/ a hardwood 4 splice footing.I really like a osage footed arro.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: magnus on February 16, 2013, 08:24:00 AM
Poplar for strength and work ability.
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Bible5 on February 16, 2013, 08:38:00 AM
any link for how to on footing arrows ?
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Hermon on February 16, 2013, 08:44:00 AM
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000130;p=2#000028
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: Buranurra on February 16, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Rick Wiltshire:
What the heck - let em break    ;)    Just a good reason to make more    :clapper:  
Good call mate! I agree    :clapper:
Title: Re: Toughest wooden shafts ?
Post by: toehead on February 16, 2013, 12:25:00 PM
I got some maple shafts that are almost indestructable