Has anyone joined MTB but it didn't work out for them due to the inconvience of a long ride to a get-together?Is this stopping you from joining MTB? What are your thoughts of them branching off into chapters.They do a good job of trying to please most but it seems that there are a lot of archers being left out due to work schedules and distance. What are your thoughts?
I think it would fracture an already small MTB more and is a terrible idea. What could be more centrally located than Grayling?
It's not just the MTB, it's all state wide archery clubs. Look at the shoot schedules for the state.
Being from the west side of the state like me you will not find many organized shoots over here. Most are in the middle of the state and to the east but don't let that stop you from going to them.
One of the best around is Elm Hall by Alma. It's a great family weekend with really good food on saturday night. Well worth the drive.
I agree that I also would like to see a shoot or two on the west side of the state but when clubs are overloaded with board members from the middle and east side of the state, that is where planned shoots are put on. I don't have time to be on a board of a club so I just drive or don't go.
Starting MTB chapters has been brought up in the past and turned down by the board.The number 1 reason not enough people who want to step up and run each chapter. We only have i believe 6 working board members now who will be putting on the Jamboree this year.As far as the banquet it has been in Grand Rapids, Holland, Ionia and now Brooklyn, it goes where ever anybody wants to step up and put it on. It's alot more work than what people think. Right now Jim and Linda put it on in Brooklyn and do a fantastic job, just check out the menu for this years banquet, well worth the drive.We would love to have an MTB shoot on the west side of the state, if anyone knows of a place just let the board know, but we also would need some help.
I am not currently a member, but should be. Biggest reason I am not is because I never seem to be able to get to events. I am a MLA member because I can get to the spring shoots at times and always make the GLLI.
I don't know about official chapters, but just some small group shooting events on an informal basis wouldn't be a bad thing.
This should probably be on the MTB page, but how many nonmembers are going to see it there if they are not members? I do go there, but not a lot.
i just renlisted back into the mtb up at ka-zoo. i live in ohio, and have been going to the banquets the last few years. i would travel just about anywhere in the state to go to the banquet. it is top notch! as far as the shoots go, all my kids play travel baseball so its hard to make any, but i enjoy the magazine that we get. great group to join ! :thumbsup:
MTB IS a great group!
As far as shoots in other parts of the state, maybe I can shed some light on that. I was a board member of a local archery club. We had an active membership and nice facility. We would seek out MBH and MLA to offer to host their events or set up a course at GLLI. If you want it, you have to go after it! Be warned though, it is a LOT of work putting on one of these shoots...be careful what you wish for.
I would consider joining MTB if there was a closer place for events . I live in Sparta Mi. and it is a drive to Grayling . Don't always have the time for a whole day half of which is driving . So a chapter within a half hr drive would be nice .
X-10 what Steve O posted. Our family was very active in the MBH back in the 80's. The Muskegon Bowman had an MBH shoot for a couple of years and it turned out to be the same people doing the same work every year and it just burns you out.
Most of the shoots are in the middle of the state which makes it a bit easier for east side and west people to attend. Grayling and Hastings are a couple of real good shoots and they are more in the middle of the mitten.
X 2 what DBGJR and Steve O. said.
Dick, thanks for your many, many years of hard work and dedication to MTB.
Steve O nailed it.
That said, I think MTB has the potential to be larger in participation than even MBH. Michigan is a HUGE traditional bowhunting state, and MTB encompasses both recurves and longbows, obviously. I would suggest exploring some "Joint Operations" combining MTB and the MLA.....
Roger, each organization has rules and the MLA rule is longbow only and the MTB welcomes either longbow or recurve. I think the seperation between the two is good as they have their own identity. But whatever the powers that be want to do.
I think the last count is the MTB has just under 300 members which is a pretty good showing.
Well, we can definitely use the new blood on our council. I will put it to everyone straight here, which I need to do in my Traditional Trails report. This coming June at the Jamboree we will be losing our President and Vice President, who will be stepping down after years of service. I am not sure if they will be replaced or not. My wife and I, as the acting Treasurer and Secretary, are in no way shape or form ready to take over the duties of all Four council positions. This said, we are not sure what the future holds in store for our club. In the past year, we have already lost one councilman and we have another (who lives in Georgia, Dave Luscher)ending their three year term due to health issues. I know that a lot of people fear being on a council. But, my wife and I have full time jobs and we manage to occupy two of the busiest positions, and that said only equates to about 5 hours of work a year. As a regular council member, I attended three meetings a year and most of those were at shoots that I was already participating in. In order to get more out of this club we need the participation. At last years Jamboree General Membership meeting, we only had TWO out of the 300 general members attend. The Jamboree does not run itself, and I am amazed year after year how we can operate this with only council members. However, in the last two years we have had a few members step up to help with the set-up and tear-down of this event. To those members MTB is very grateful. I would love to see the OLD DAYS of MTB, but if no one is going to put the time and effort into the club, then it is going to fold eventually. Leaving everyone left standing and saying "What ever happened to the Grayling Shoot."
Tom
We have a bingo.
The combination of the MLA and MTB is just not feasible. First, we have a lot of bleed over membership (including myself, both MTB and MLA member). Second, the MLA was formed to promote the Longbow as a hunting weapon. MTB was formed due to the fact that a lot of recurve shooters wanted to be part of an organization and have a shoot back in the day. Of course, the Recurve shooters were not allowed to shoot recurves at the GLLI, so came the Jamboree. This being said, I would like to see MTB get involved with more activites for it's members, but even our rabbit hunt this year did not break any record attendance. I think that the few events that we do have we need to promoted better. For instance, we are looking at bringing back the Pheasant Hunt again, with a possible new location toward the west side of the state. Once again though we need more member input and participation to get the old MTB ball rolling again. I always wanted a council member to be appointed as the events chairman (Jamboree contact, Pheasant and Rabbit Hunt). Also, we need someone to take over merchandise to get some ideas for different things.
Tom
Thanks for all your response. I also put this on the MTB forum but posted here also for non MTB members to see and respond to. As far as a lot of work goes, you guys are right. It's always the "faithfull few" that gets the ball rolling and make things happen. I wouldn't mind discussing with others that are local with me about this topic and maybe with our combined efforts could get something to happen. I noticed here some are real close to Kent City. With this said, there is a saying that goes "out of small acorns do big oaks grow".
Thanks Chuck. I have enjoyed being on the MTB Board and will probably continue because i don't want to see the orginization fold up. Before we even think about State Chapters we need to make sure we have Board members to run the orgization and keep the Jamboree going. Brian, there are alot of MTB members in the area so if something does get set up it would be a good turn out.
I have been an on and off member of MTB for a long time. "Off" only because of forgetting to re-up.
Looked at logically, the MTB should be the premier traditional organization in the state. Yet it seems to be faltering.
My impression is that the MLA is moving ahead of the MTB at a rapid rate (if I'm wrong, I apologize). I'm betting that is a people thing. I think highly of the leadership team over at MLA...Mike Vines as President is a top notch choice.
Thre are also some good folks involved in MTB (guys like Chuck and Jon).I'm aware WHY there are differences, my suggestion of some "Joint Operations" is not meant to dilute one (the purity of longbows in the MLA) but to boost the other (MTB)The Grayling shoot is ...was...awesome. So is the GLLI. Maybe a MAJOR sized combined shoot would help boost MTB.
It would be pretty sad if recurve shooters had no club to call ther own...
I sure thank all of those who have labored for MTB so long....I understand what looks to me like "burnout". Maybe it's time for some of us who have enjoyed the Grayling shoot for so long to step up...
Part of the decline is my fault. I guess I need to sign up. I used to be a member. Is there another place to discuss this topic as this is a forum to pow wow bowhunting? Maybe I'll e-mail my concerns to a member. What do you guys think?
Some interesting thoughts for sure. I haven't been involved with MTB for quite a few years now but I have to say it saddens me to think what the future may have in store. Can't really say for sure what's happened but it's disheartening to say the least. In the interest of stimulating some interest and discussion, some rambling thoughts - if the thread needs to be moved, hopefully someone will. It's of interest to all I hope -
Politically -
Now that the great crossbow/technology battles are over and deer management in general here in MI has become so politicized, a good share of our meaning and purpose has been lost. At the height of MTB's popularity, we stood side by side with other bowhunting interests pleading the case from our perspective. We had people from MTB appearing regularly at the NRC and populating DNR committees. Now, to be totally honest, it seems somewhat pointless. There's issues, but nothing of consequence. About the only value in doing so now would be to keep membership informed of issues that may not be specific to bowhunting. Working in this way for the membership wasn't the sole purpose or function of MTB during those days but it did play a big part. The membership appreciated having us there representing our perspective and their opinions. I know they did - I heard from them.
Are there or could there be issues that need to be or could still be addressed? I don't know. One such idea that's been suggested to me over and over is lobbying for a trad season. It would take years and lots of research and effort but it could be done. MI's licensing structure and regs seem to be on a little bit more restrictive path and in light of that, I think those who have suggested such a thing could potentially be on to something - there's room for it. Everyone else seems to have a piece of the "pie". Why shouldn't we? With a little imagination, there's a few issues I guess that could be addressed. I think MTB has to identify with and associate more effectively with other organizations that share similar interests.
Clearly if MTB's influence was to be felt, membership numbers would need to increase - a LOT.
Organizationally -
The age old issue of whether MTB wants to be an "organization" or a "club" is always out there. The Council needs to determine one way or another which direction it wants to go in and then focus in that direction. If you're a club, you do things "club-like" in the way you make decisions. If you're an "organization", you do things that are "organizational" in the way you make decisions.
Trad Trails is the heart and soul of MTB's way of communicating it's theme and reason to exist. Whether or not it's something the Council likes to hear, many, many members see that yearly membership fee as a subscription to the magazine. When renewal time rolls around and they think back to the past few issues and see that all that's there is one or two, 2 page stories and four pages of ads touting the Jamboree, Banquet or Trad Bowhunter magazine and a number of business cards from members who do "trad" stuff, well... it makes spending that renewal money a little less appealing.
This is ABSOLUTELY no reflection upon or accusation towards Dan - he's done a great job with that magazine for many, many years and I hope he continues on. But when he's got nothing to work with as far as material, it's tough. The answer? I don't know but a couple things come to mind.
One, regular contributors - we've got several guys here in MI that are very, very successful trad bowhunters who've made "names" for themselves and have great reputations in the trad bowhunting community. A few that come to mind - Steve Osminski, Bryan Burkhardt, Denny Sturgis, Darryl Quidort. Many others. There are many, many fantastic bowyers and trad bowhunting retailers right here - they need to be approached. They have MUCH to offer. They don't need to write a book for each issue but a few lines with a few picts go a long ways and is not at all burdensome. It's only a few times a year.
Two, incentives for those who are willing to step up a bit and contribute. Jot down a few lines, send a few picts and send it in. People LOVE that stuff. Yearly memberships or renewals? T-shirts? Hats?
Three - a little color. It's expensive but it's a good investment. There's ways to reduce costs.
I don't know but one thing I do know from sitting in both the membership secretary's seat and the editor's seat for many years - the magazine needs to be enhanced.
We have to re-emphasize family and kids. There's nothing new in that - it was a huge part of MTB 's identity back in the 90's and early 00's. It needs to have an emphasis put on it again. For almost all of us, that's what it's all about. For many of us, it's grandkids now.
Not sure how often it's been done but the bylaws need to be reviewed yearly and updated. Times and circumstances change.
Membership status -
This has been a confusing issue since day one and admittedly I did very little to "fix" it during my time with MTB. Some people renew at the Jamboree, some at the Expo, some at the Banquet, some in August, some in November. When they renew at the Expo, do they get a year and a half or a half year? When they renew at the Banquet, same thing? How about when they send it in April? It gets to be confusing for the secretary, the membership and expensive for MTB when a guy renews at different times of the year because some end up with a year and a half, some with a partial year.
ALL memberships need to expire at the SAME time EVERY year with no exceptions. It would be cost effective and make things much easier for the membership secretary and more importantly for the membership. Pick a day and time and stick with it. Send out membership renewal cards within weeks of receiving that fall issue???
I see it spelled out on almost every bowhunting site I frequent when talk of MTB is bantered about - "I was a member but I forgot that my membership expired and just forgot to renew."
Stick with ONE date and time of year... No more renewing here, there and everywhere.
New memberships and renewals - when someone renews or joins, make sure they receive a confirmation letter in the mail within 5 business days of the time it was postmarked. When I did the secretary's job, I had one form letter for new members and one for renewals and I simply changed the name to whom it was addressed with each membership and it seemed much more personal. From time to time i updated the form letters with news, info and reminders. This would, could or should be done via email to keep costs at a minimum. If they don't have an email address, print it and send it snail mail. People want to know they belong, their efforts in joining or renewing have been acknowledged and they are a part of something. Getting that confirmation of "belonging" is HUGE.
At some point the Council is going to have to move in the direction of allowing membership to join or renew online. I know it's been talked about for years but it needs to be done for obvious reasons.
The Internet is HUGE and traditional or not, traditional bowhunters are using it - we need to take advantage of it.
Communication -
If you are going to survive and THRIVE, you need to communicate with every single member and make EACH one feel as though they are a part of it. Now days almost every single person has email and in general, the membership needs to be communicated with on a more regular basis. On the membership or renewal form, make sure they have a LEGIBLE email address and if they haven't filled it out, call them on the phone. Keep an up to date list and communicate REGULARLY with them. It's inexpensive and takes very little time or effort.
Banquet/Jamboree -
Honestly, I don't feel there's a lot to be improved upon. Both are well run and especially the Jamboree is unique to MTB because of the location and of course the 2-D course which is amazing. Maybe the Banquet could be a little more centrally located but I certainly understand why it is where it is, depending on the year.
Re vendors at the Jamboree, I don't think the Jamboree was ever meant to be vendor orientated - it's a shoot. Yet, when the Jamboree was hugely attended, the vendors showed up because there was a reason to be there (plus, they enjoyed the shoot itself). The bottom line is, the Jamboree is still a shoot and always will be. Attendance will dictate the number of vendors that want to participate. Are there incentives to get them there? Of course - a little imagination could be used.
Re chapters, right now, I think there only needs to be one chapter - a statewide one. I'm afraid setting up chapters now would further fracture an already fragile situation and as Dick mentioned, right now, who?
Re a merger between the two trad groups? I'm not on the Council and am just a member but I wouldn't care to see that. There is too much identity associated with each group. It really should stay that way. Re combined activities or events? Of course - we've done it successfully in the past.
The bottom line is the bowhunting landscape in MI has changed and while not sacrificing any "traditional" principles, MTB has to change it's identity and approach a bit as well. There are so many ideas out there that haven't been tapped into that just can't be typed into a 15 minute reply to an Internet thread and need to be talked about face to face in a group setting.
The "big" issues of the day are gone now and what we've got left (and what we've always had) is spreading the word re traditional bowhunting. We're not going to grow anymore by playing offense or even defense to all the real & perceived threats to bowhunting in MI. The best way to attract bees is with honey. MTB's mission and purpose needs to be looked at and redefined and when it is, it needs to be communicated clearly, massively and effectively. People need to know what the benefits are to "belonging". It's part of it but it's just not enough anymore to say we're a bunch of people sitting around a campfire carving out bows from a hunk of osage. There's 300,000 Bowhunters in MI - how cool would it be to "convert" 25% or more of them to the joys of hunting with a recurve or longbow?
In NO way should anyone read this and cast any doubt or blame on the past or current leadership. I to was a part of it and those currently serving are just flat out burned out and are frankly in survival mode now. I'm not so sure it's new blood we need as much as it is new ideas.
MTB is and was a good organization and can continue to be. I'd sure feel bad about seeing it fade away.
I have to go back and read a to catch up, but so far I like that this is on Pow Wow. This is about trad bow hunting because the organization is about bow hunting. This may have started with the MTB, but I am sure these types of issues exist in many other states and organizations. This discussions could be of some benefit to others facing the same issues. Being on Pow Wow could also get some input from other organizations. I would think that the MTB would be open to suggestions and input from other trad bow hunting clubs or organizations that have faced these issues, made changes, and seen the outcome.
It could even be better if the post was about trad bow hunting originations and how to improve them vs. a Michigan title some may not read.
Is there anywhere on here that we could do something to help different organizations communicate about club issue with membership, technology, ........... that could benefit all groups and trad bow hunting as a whole? Maybe there is something or could be something in the goups and origination section. I think this site is a huge benefit to trad bow hunting. Just think what would happen if we could get most of the trad gang MI members on this site into a Michigan trad bow hunting origination.
Todd's correct. While this related directly with MTB, it applies to bow hunting and representation accross the country.
Chuck, thanks for taking the time to write all of those issues down. It should be addressed by the organization accordingly as a working suggestion.
Good stuff Chuck
Chuck,your right, it would be very sad to see MTB just fade away. You are also right about people just letting there membership run out due to the fact that all they seem to get out of it is the traditional trails newsletter. I did that. Maybe what needs to be done are get togethers that are more non formal. What I saying about that is the banquet. It's not exactly a place to go and make friends but more of going with your buddies out to eat with some entertainment. Some have an invisable sign around there neck that says "DO NOT DISTURB". Most people like to be included. As far as the entertainment (guest speaker) goes, it may be about a topic that don't spark everyones fire. With this said, what fires you up? What kindles the fire you once had? With me it's the rustic setting. Also the round table so to speak where no one is the head of the table.
GREAT STUFF IBOW!!
I especially agree with your assessment about the political issues.
While you can motivate people short term by focussing on what you are "against," if you want to keep them interested long term you better focus on what you are "for."
I edited my first post to take out the part about moving it to the MI page. I was worried it would get pulled and did not want this topic to disappear.
Chuck knows what he is talking about. I help take down the course when I can at the Jamboree, but often it is a short day trip for us.
We all can and should do more!
QuoteOriginally posted by kill shot:
Maybe what needs to be done are get togethers that are more non formal. What I saying about that is the banquet. It's not exactly a place to go and make friends but more of going with your buddies out to eat with some entertainment. Some have an invisible sign around there neck that says "DO NOT DISTURB". Most people like to be included.
Bingo. That's the key Brian. ALL people like to feel included and a part of things. That's exactly what builds a good, solid and working organization. When that occurs, you get contribution. If you help build it, you've got a stake in it. ;)
BTW, I remember you from those years as secretary. I always thought you had the coolest last name. :)
Chuck, When I'm on a trout stream, the name is just what it implies. At least I think so.
;)
I'm thinking about going over to Tom Hackbart's place to shoot my bow. It's one of the only places where you can shoot a trad bow and not feel like a turd in a punch bowl.
I'm thinking about going over to Tom Hackbart's place to shoot my bow. It's one of the only places where you can shoot a trad bow and not feel like a turd in a punch bowl.
The MLA and MTB are great organizations.
Fortunately, there are a couple events that are within driving distance for me like Elm Hall, GLLI,and The Bunny Stomp.
Unfortunately, there are also a few events that are too far to drive with the way gas prices have been. Anything outside of a 2hr drive is not attainable for me.
I would like to see an increase in events held to accommodate archers from every corner of the state. Maybe even a collaboration from the two organizations.
This way each organization retains it's individuality while increasing participants in traditional archery related events.
At the end of the day, all you really need is to create your own event by calling a few buddies and plan a hunt, hit up a 3-D range or shoot some stumps.
Honestly, I shoot alone or with my children 99% of the year with a few gatherings sprinkled in.
If fuel wasn't an issue or league fee's at the nearest location weren't out of my range, I would love to make that alone time 50% as I find more joy shooting with others.
I'm sure there are others in the same position who have a sense of isolation and are wanting some events closer to home. It requires a lot of leg work and volunteering. ;)
Are Elm Hall (summer shoot) and the Bunny Stomp MTB events or are they put on by private individuals?
Im like Arwin, I shoot in my backyard or maybe with a friend. I have gone to the Grayling shoot once and maybe again this summer. Have been to the Elm Hall rabbit hunt a couple times and the Elm Hall summer shoot once. As was stated, with the price of gas it is hard to go to alot of events that are far away. Every year I say im going to go to more events but work or something else gets in the way. I AM going to try to make it to the Compton shoot in June because one of these years they will move it to another state.
The Bunny Stomp next saturday is 17 miles from my house, I have the Weekend off and you can bet your boots im gonna be flinging arrows at Sleepy Hollow!!!
No, neither are MTB shoots.The Elm Hall shoot is put on by Pine River Recreation Club, not sure about the Bunny Stomp but i think it is put on by a few guys every year. MTB does have a Rabbit Hunt that is hosted by the Pine River Recreation Club in January. They also host the MBH District 5 Rabbit hunt in January as well.
The bunny stomp is out of the question for me. I get out of work at 3:30 am. To go home and make the long drive and hunt with no sleep would kinda suck the fun out of it. Plus gas is 3.95 a gallon. Afternoon events are more for my ambition. Local events are even better. As far as locality goes, there are many that live too far away no matter where the event may be.
Ibow makes some great points.
From my perspective, what is the point of MTB in the current state?
Why should I join?
What is the mission of MTB? Is it advocacy for traditional (all) bowhunting opportunity or is it a club of great people who'd rather plan outings and weekend shoots?
Sure, it can be both, but without serious advocacy, it really is more of a club with a couple 200 members.
I'm a member of other "outdoor orgs" because I believe in what they advocate. While some here may not like or agree with QDMA, I do.
Deer hunting is typically only as good as the deer habitat where one is hunting. In much of northern Michigan, it's maturing forests that are hunters worst enemy, not PETA or HSUS. I believe keeping deer herds in balance, along with getting more private landowners to better manage the habitat on their holdings is paramount to the future of hunting in northern forests. Not just for deer, but habitat management is key for turkey, pheasants, grouse, etc.
I also think the Michigan buck tagging system has been a little too liberal over the past 30 years, when we've ranged from allowing 4 bucks a year to 2 bucks a year. I prefer allowing one buck per year, and then let anyone decide what single buck is a "trophy" to them, but if we're going to allow two bucks in any season, then there should be a bit of a higher restriction on both tags. To me, that's totally reasonable.
With compounds and xbows now being 50 yard weapons and inline ML's now being 250 yard weapons, trying more restrictive buck tags is a change that's worth a 5 year trial, in my mind.
Anyone who knows about trout fishing, especially east of the Mississippi, also knows that constantly staying on top of good stream habitat is also paramount. It's the same with hunting.
Also see DU and duck habitat.
Here's QDMA's mission statement...
"The QDMA's mission is to promote sustainable, high quality white-tailed deer populations, wildlife habitats, and ethical hunting experiences through education, research, and management in partnership with hunters, landowners, natural resource professionals,and the public."
So what is MTB's plan or mission?
Ohio bowhunters hunt from early September all the way thru February. So why can't we? I've personally talked to the head of the Ohio deer program and he told me that the bowhunting kill in Jan-Feb is basically insignificant as far as hurting the resource, yet it offers nearly 5 additional weeks of bowhunting opportunity.
I'll join the first Michigan hunting group to pick up that mantle.
I guess my question is, if I join MTB, what am I joining? Am I joining a group that will advocate changes I want to see happen or would they actually fight changes I want to see happen?
Truth is, I don't know for sure and I won't join a group if I am unsure that they will turn around and use my money to fight against my goals.
See the point? By having a group that even current members aren't really sure of the direction, or can't explain the benefits of joining, who wants to join it?
QuoteOriginally posted by Mojostick:
I guess my question is, if I join MTB, what am I joining? Am I joining a group that will advocate changes I want to see happen or would they actually fight changes I want to see happen?
Truth is, I don't know for sure and I won't join a group if I am unsure that they will turn around and use my money to fight against my goals.
That's part of the problem when a group becomes overly political. Seldom do all members agree on everything. It only takes a few battles on various issues and before you know it, you've alienated a large portion of your memmbership.
I have chosen to not support organizations and publications that I feel do not support all ethical hunters, regardless of their equipment coices or methods.
Hey Mojo,
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the MLA is partnered with MBH for votes counted towards political issues concerning bow hunters.
Not sure if MTB is, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
I think at the time, neither MTB nor MLA are political organizations. Many members of both organizations are also members of MBH, which I am not a member of currently.
It would cost the average person a small fortune every year to belong to all the organizations, LOL! Wish there was a discount for members of organizations that are affiliated with each other on a political level, that way the average person could belong to both.
It's hard to put a price on an organization that fights for what we love. Sometimes you are stuck having to choose one over the other.
This is an excellent thread and conversation that I bet every organization and volunteer can relate to. As someone who has worked for a trade association, which relies on volunteers to run, is a former MLA Council Member, runs a traditional archery league and assist in the Michigan Bunny Stomp...getting people to get involved is an interesting subject. From my years working in and being part of the volunteer world, I would say the #1 piece that dictates success/growth, failure/decline or somewhere in the middle is the people leading the organization. Next #2 is someone that is the glue that plays a uniquely important role in keeping the organization grounded in good time and bad and can deal with change. And, #3 knowing when it is time to turn the rains over to new people with new ideas and enthusiasm then actually letting the new and enthusiastic people take control and move the organization forward.
As it pertains to #1...I have always believed good enthusiastic people with good personalities who like other people...naturally and effortlessly draw people to them and their organization. The key is getting these people into you organization and then letting them move on or reduce their role before they reach burn out. This means letting new people with new ideas actually take the rains and supporting them. It also means having a good balance of leaders\\idea people and workers.
As it pertains to #2, there is one person who always comes to my mind as the "glue" person that hold one organization together and that is Ken Scollick with MLA. Ken gives to MLA like no other persona I know....he has so many years of experience serving MLA he is truly invaluable as it pertains to historical knowledge. He is a hard worker too. Along with the wealth of knowledge, Ken also possesses an extremely valuable trait that has served MLA well; his ability to be open minded and accept, embrace and move forward change. He can educated new people on the past to help avoid prior mistakes but is willing to move forward with the new ideas of the new Council.
To point #3... Over time things change and it is normal for good people and leaders running organizations to burn out if they are not relieved. In a perfect world, people should have moved on or given up responsibilities before they reached burn out. It is at this point, and what is done (in my opinion) that makes all the difference on whether an organization goes into decline or keeps moving forward. In my experience, often the handful of people that are holding the organization together, stating they want new blood and to turn over the rains, cannot or will not let go. The new people who are enthusiastically attracted into the organization leadership roles, on the premise of being able to move their new ideas forward, are instead overrules by what I like to call the "Old Guard" who hold on to old ways and outdated thoughts. Eventually the new blood is driven out...all of which can be very destructive.
MLA has been blessed by some awesome leaders and the current Council is certainly no exception. They were struggling for a number of years too but thanks to their ability to attract new leaders and let them change the dynamics of MLA, today MLA is thriving and growing. As I am sure Ken will tell you there are members who are solid and fluid but they are all important members.
I personally support all the MI traditional archery organizations and most of the national ones through membership...regardless of whether I can make their events of not or the fact I prefer shooting a recurve. There are simply way too many events these days that cater to traditional archery for anyone to make them all.
MTB...I would like to see a multi year membership rather than having to re-up year to year. A year goes by so quickly and lends itself to forgetting to re-up. A multi year membership would be less work to administer too.
The Michigan Bunny Stomp would be an excellent event for the MTB to work with the current organizers to bring under its umbrella of events.
I have been to the MBH rabbit hunt, and the MTB hunt this year. The non-organizational Michigan Bunny Stomp surpasses them all. Serious question....why do you suppose that is?
I've not had good experiences with various organizations over the years and am reluctant to join anything. I am a member of MLA and Compton but that's it right now. Its the boards job to attract and retain members....... :saywhat:
Roger because it's loosely organized and not many rules other than have fun, chase bunny's and eat..
I agree with chuck. All you need is a few buddies to get together to have an event. I'm going to try this by re-joining the MTB. There should be enough MTB members in any given area in Michigan to get together for a shoot, hunt or just plain ole hanging out talking about trad stuff. The sitting around the archery shop in the back of my garage talking trad has always sparked my fire.
If I recall, a friend of mine (who don;t hunt) belonged to a snowmobile club. It was a bunch of locals or semi local who took turns having the meetings at each others house. That worked for them.
The majority of the people that show up to the MTB Rabbit hunt are Pine River Recreation Club members. It costs 5.00 to hunt and we split the money with the host club so it's not a big money maker. The only rule is to have fun other than hunter orange and blunts. Also steve,good post. I've been on the board for alot of years, yes iwould like to step down because i'm BURNED OUT, but won't because that would leave 3 peole left to run MTB.We've tried to get members to step up but no one wants to commit for a couple of years. Yes it's alot of work to put on the Jamboree, but other then that just have to attend meetings and other MTB functions(expo, rabbit hunt, banquet)
When the MTB collects money, what is it used for? I'm not being sarcastic or critical, I just don't know.
The host club gets half, MTB the other half. It is used for the magazine(printing, postage), Insurance for the club, renting the banquet facilities, Hanson Hills for jamboree weekend, porta johns for the weekend, prchasing targets, cardboard for 2-d targets, and any other expenses we have for Jamboree. We used to have some money saved from auctions and raffles to go to a scholorship, but we only had 1 person ever applyfor that.
Thanks for the eye opener. I can see now how expensive an event can be. Thanks to many who donate to the events. It reminds me of a free cat. By the time you put the money into it it's not so free anymore. Think about that one.
Thanks for the eye opener. I can see now how expensive an event can be. Thanks to many who donate to the events. It reminds me of a free cat. By the time you put the money into it it's not so free anymore. Think about that one.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
I have been to the MBH rabbit hunt, and the MTB hunt this year. The non-organizational Michigan Bunny Stomp surpasses them all. Serious question....why do you suppose that is?
Thanks Roger! We try, we've always said once the Bunny Stomp turns into work we'll stop it! We keep it loose and just roll with it...I've tested a few friendships with making the event bigger and better but that's my dream for it.
I've been kicking around joining the MTB council around for a few years...just haven't made the jump yet. I may think harder, and was discussing some ideas with Steve Chappell last night.
Drew, I think you would be a good addition to MTB leadership. I am impressed how you have grown the Bunny Stomp without making it about yourelf. Remember when we bumped into each other at Kalamazoo, and I asked you if you were coming again? You replied..."Um, yep, I'm organizing it".
That is partially on me, because I am terrible with names.....but that also tells me you care about the event, the charity, rather than about tooting your own horn. That, coupled with your obvious organizational skills, points to a great leader. Run for President of MTB, you will get my vote and participation.
QuoteOriginally posted by Drew:
I've been kicking around joining the MTB council around for a few years...[/b]
That would be great Drew. While you're at it, see if you can talk your neighbor Jim Larsen into returning. He'd be a great addition to the Council. :thumbsup:
Good call Chuck....Jim is a good man.
First off, I am hoping to see most of you at this Saturday's banquet. It will be a great time and the most bang for your buck at $25.00 (includes dinner, desert, pop, beer, wine and a chance to when a new bow). At 4:00 p.m. we will have a council meeting that you are welcome to attend. Second, if you can't make the banquet please attend the General Membership meeting with these ideas. It is easy for everyone to brain storm on the keyboard, but these ideas need to be addressed directly to the council. Those who have questions about MTB's future goals can receive an answer there. Last, it is because of MTB that I even shoot a bow. Back in 2006, I attended the Jamboree for the first time and it was within minutes that I had a bow in my hand and shooting arrows, because our members cared. This is the reason that I joined the council, to give back which I had received.
Tom
QuoteOriginally posted by tomwatson:
Second, if you can't make the banquet please attend the General Membership meeting with these ideas. It is easy for everyone to brain storm on the keyboard, but these ideas need to be addressed directly to the council.
This is the reason that I joined the council, to give back which I had received.
Tom
Tom, when's the general membership meeting?
Also, your last point is exactly what i was thinking!
QuoteOriginally posted by Ibow:
QuoteOriginally posted by Drew:
I've been kicking around joining the MTB council around for a few years...[/b]
That would be great Drew. While you're at it, see if you can talk your neighbor Jim Larsen into returning. He'd be a great addition to the Council. :thumbsup: [/b]
Ha! I'd be happy just to see Jim and Elaine..i know they've got a lot going on. Jim's one of the reasons i got back into trad archery!
Drew, the General Membership meeting is going to be held on Saturday evening of the Jamboree. I am thinking that maybe we should have it before the raffle (usually takes place after) in order to get more people to attend.
Tom
To Clarify:
The MTB General Membership meeting will take place Saturday evening during our Annual MTB Jamboree in Grayling June 22nd, 2013. We will however, have a small Council meeting (4:00 pm) before the Banquet doors open. We welcome members to attend that may have ideas, but it is not mandatory.
Tom
I have been a member of MBH for a lot of years now. The reason I joined was two fold. One was it help support archery in Michigan, giving a voice at the state level. With more members the more voice you have to support archery hunting. The other reason was to shoot at the Grayling event, camping and meeting up with old friends. I have been living now in the Upper Penisula, a long ways from Grayling. Still make it down most years for this great shoot. I do miss having the vendors at this shoot but that is not going make the difference if we come down or not.
Two quick ideas. MBH council members need to get better known to people like myself who are not able to attend meetings because of where we live in the state. Yes the Yooper is a part of Michigan. Been a long time since we had a council member stop by our camp site and introduce themselves. Again because we do camp for two days there it would be great to have a community camp fire in the evenings. This great group of people just needs to get to know all it's parts better. I do want to thank all those people over the years that have help keep this organization going. I know it is a lot of hard work and your hard work is appreciated.
John and Lori