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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: moleman on January 31, 2013, 09:09:00 PM

Title: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: moleman on January 31, 2013, 09:09:00 PM
Ive seen a number of comments that tend to link heavy poundage to shoulder problems as we become older, so with that in mind, how many of you folks over 50 are still shooting bows 60lbs and over with no ill effects on your body?
If you do, what are your conditioning secrets... if any?
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Doc Nock on January 31, 2013, 09:38:00 PM
Paul,

I'm not, but I'd say if they are, conditioning is only part of the equation...a Good Gene Pool is the other 1/2!

I got a cesspool, not a gene pool...
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: DennyK on January 31, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Not Me
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: magnus on January 31, 2013, 09:49:00 PM
I'm in my 40's and can't shoot 60+#'s. can't shoot at all right now. I think it's more mileage and wear and tear than age or bow weight.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: pruiter on January 31, 2013, 09:49:00 PM
Still shooting 71 pds,  But now own a 55 pd as well. 51 years old here
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Cool Springer on January 31, 2013, 09:53:00 PM
I'm 51, so I guess I'm at the top of the downhill slope.
I have two 62# bows, a longbow and a recurve.  I shoot both during the summer, but once it gets close to October, I go with my 56# Foley recurve.  Practicing with the heavier poundage makes the 56# bow feel great.
I do try to stay in shape year round, always with shooting my bow in mind.  Lately I've been shooting very little, but working out a lot.  I have to say though that nothing beats shooting your bow for keeping those important muscles strong.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Andy Cooper on January 31, 2013, 09:57:00 PM
I'm 57 and the heaviest bow I still shoot is 69@28. I mostly shoot 50#, but my favorite bow is 62#. When I get to shoot a lot, the 69 pounder doesn't seem heavy. If I go a couple of weeks without shooting (which doesn't happen very often thank God!)even the 50's seem heavy the second time back out. The first time back out, I'm so glad to be shooting again that I don't notice!
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: siwash on January 31, 2013, 09:59:00 PM
Heavy bows and aging can cause blown rotator cuffs; myself and my orthropedic surgeon can verify!!!
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Justin Falon on January 31, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
I am 41 years old. I normally shoot my 85# longbow. The only thing I have noticed is that if I don't shoot it for several months, I become fatigued more quickly.  I am not a guy that shoots dozens of arrows so I am okay only shooting every few days or weeks. I never noticed any pains except when shooting really heavy weights without proper muscle conditioning. Been shooting heavy bows all my life.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: HARL on January 31, 2013, 10:19:00 PM
Mid 50's now and still shoot 65-68# bows. Have always been fairly active but have dropped 10-15 #'s in the last few years .
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Stumpkiller on January 31, 2013, 10:32:00 PM
I got pretty sick (sepsis and bacterial lymph infection) at age 49 (was 6'3" & 155 lbs - down from 210 lbs in a few months) and never got back to the 60-65# bows I had been shooting.  I now weigh 175 and I'm happy at 50-55# at age 53.  No shoulder problems.  My knees are happier, too.  I have some arthritus starting and my right elbow occasionally reminds me after a shooting session.  

My Dream Catcher draws 58# at my draw length and that is as much as I care to shoot.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: joe skipp on January 31, 2013, 10:33:00 PM
I'm heading in next Friday to have my rotator cuff and cyst taken care of in my right shoulder.

Heaviest bow I shoot is 58#. All the rest are 52/55 and I'm more comfortable with the lighter poundages. I'll be 61 this August...I still work out pulling back a 65# bow for excercise only. After this surgery and rehab, will use the 58# bow and discard the heavier one.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: coaster500 on January 31, 2013, 10:56:00 PM
I have to shoot 50 pounds or so. My bow arm shoulder just won't take any more...  hope I can continue.........
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: DamselflyFarm on January 31, 2013, 10:56:00 PM
51 here. I still shoot, on occasion, my 60# Hill-style Longbow, but I don't hunt with it any longer. I'm much happier with my new 50# recurve.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: njloco on January 31, 2013, 10:59:00 PM
I have noticed that the lower the grip on the bow the less it bothers my bow shoulder.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Knawbone on January 31, 2013, 11:05:00 PM
I'm soon to be 54, never weighed more than 130 until I hit my late 40's. Still shoot up to a 54 lb bow but less stress on my small frame to shoot 50. No shoulder or arthritis problems and I intend to keep it that way.Just because you have the strength to draw heavy bows, doesn't mean you should.Listen to your body.   :knothead:
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: stykshooter on January 31, 2013, 11:15:00 PM
I'm 59 and shoot 65# which is the same #'s I've shot since I was 30
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: mtnman1945 on January 31, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
I am 68 and I shoot mostly my 70# Turkish horn bow and my 1960 Bear Alaskan 65#.  I have quite a large garage with a set up for shooting in bad weather.  I keep fit by shoot almost every day.  Most people I know only use their bows a few months of the year and have a difficult time getting the necessary muscles to adjust without some muscle stress.  As I shoot on a regular basis I hardly notice the draw weight at all.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: MnFn on January 31, 2013, 11:57:00 PM
Gave my 60# recurve to my son. If I warm up right I can shoot my 56# longbow, but just in case I bought a 48# longbow. I was 60 this past year.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Pat B. on January 31, 2013, 11:59:00 PM
I'll be 59 in a couple of months and am shooting a 63# Hill that's 68" long. I'm more comfortable with my 57 pounder but if I shoot daily the heavier bow is just fine..  For the last several years I'd been shooting bows in the mid to upper 40's..  Just decided to get back into some heavier weights..
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Mojostick on February 01, 2013, 01:08:00 AM
Warming up and fitness has nothing to do with bone spurs or impingement. Here's a decent link for some education on the matter...
http://www.bosshin.com/impingement_and_cuff/#what
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Alan Coe on February 01, 2013, 01:18:00 AM
50 years old and still shooting 80#, no problem.

And yes, I have a bum shoulder from an old sports injury. Shooting a bow does not aggravate the injury.

Alan
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: chanumpa on February 01, 2013, 01:30:00 AM
Im 51 and have dropped down to 55#s.I still have a nice 60# bow and can still shoot it,but not as well.Have found that 4 or 5 pounds less is a bunch of difference.My prob.is that Im still working concrete all the time.It can really put the hurt on me in the summer time pouring 10 to 20 yards of mud per day.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: rkelly on February 01, 2013, 08:22:00 AM
Notice what njoco posted.  (Lower grip bothers his shoulder less.)  My doctor said rotator cuff damage is a position thing.  Lower grip would mean a lower shoulder. And I can agree on that!  Lower shoulder feels better on my 73 year old bow shoulders.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Terry Green on February 01, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
I dind't read any of the other post....but its not all just 'conditioning'....you need to know HOW do draw a bow properly.  Most folks that get injured shooting bows don't know how to properly draw one.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Russ Clagett on February 01, 2013, 09:30:00 AM
Terry....that's interesting...can you talk a little more about that....?

Just not sure what you mean...

thanks!
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Terry Green on February 01, 2013, 09:40:00 AM
Drawing with the method of 'muscling the bow' is the most common error.  Drawing with arms and with bow shoulder lot in alignment.

Bone on Bone structure drawing with the back and not the arms with good alignment at the beginning of the draw and ending in proper alignment at the end of the draw.

Come over to the shooters forum....lots of info over there.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: centaur on February 01, 2013, 09:44:00 AM
I'm 65, and I'm comfortably shooting 55#. I bought a 70# bow not long ago as a workout bow, but it didn't take long to figure out that was too much bow for me. I shot 70# when in my 30s and 40s.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: ddauler on February 01, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
This is good stuff I been at this for almost 30 years this is the first year I have had shoulder problems will be 51 in March. I run lift weights and stay in shape so that ain't the issue. My CV joint on my drawing arm keeps getting sore. I finally decided to drop down in bow weight. I don't know if this is an over use injury or from a tumble I took in the woods. Anyway at least for now its 47 lbs been shooting 56-69 for ever but not getting any younger.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: beendare on February 01, 2013, 09:58:00 AM
I'm 55 and- knock on wood- can still shoot plenty and even throw 300 pitches a couple times a week to my sons baseball team at BP.

I'm a big believer in warming up well and doing rotator cuff exercises with a pulley machine at the gym or bungee- get that joint lubed up good before doing anything. I also lift weights but more rep stuff not heavy, with smooth full motion not initial hard push. I'm no medical pro but feel the shoulder is similar to a knee in respect to keeping all of the muscle groups tuned around it helps with proper function.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: paradocs on February 01, 2013, 10:03:00 AM
Will be 52 this year, 5'6", 135. Shot 62-65# for years. Dropped to 57# in my early 40s, then to 47-50# about 5 years ago.  I can still draw the heavy ones...in shirtsleeves....in the summertime.   But all dressed up, after 3 hours sitting' at sub-freezing temps?  Not so much.  The little 58" 48# longbow I shoot now throws 580 grains at around 160 fps, with a whisper.  You'd have a tough time convincing me I'm poorly armed.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Igor on February 01, 2013, 10:18:00 AM
I'm 60 in march 5'9" 170lbs....I shoot up to 70lbs (work out longbow) but I'm in decent condition and work at it 3/5 times per week with a varity of workouts including resistant training - Cardio/low impact - swimming...My knees are shot from wrestling and soccer but the rest of my joints are good.... I go a little slower but still keep it going which I think is the key....what I seem to notice most is I lose conditioning faster and it takes longer to get back so consistancy is a real factor.


><>>
Glenn
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: twistedlim on February 01, 2013, 10:49:00 AM
I started with a 62# zipper recurve a dozen or so years ago.  At the ripe old age of 53 I now shoot between 45-50 lbs.  I do not necessarily shoot a lower poundage because of age, but rather I think I have become smarter.  It would have been much better for me to start at 45 lbs but coming from shooting a 65lb wheeled bow it was hard to wrap my head around going so low in weight.  Knowlege about arrow weight, front of center performance and shooting style have all lead me down the road to lighter bows.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: GreyGoose on February 01, 2013, 10:56:00 AM
I don't think my heavier bows cause shoulder problems, but occasionally my shoulder problems make it impossible to shoot my heavier bows.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Orion on February 01, 2013, 12:31:00 PM
I'll be 67 soon and am now shooting bows in the mid-50s, not because of any shoulder problems. I just got weaker and don't shoot as much as I used to.  Up until about 5-6 years ago, I shot in the 60-65# range.  Can still shoot that weight, but not very comfortable doing it, and my accuracy quickly drops off as I tire. Never shot heavier than 70#. Never had shoulder problems and still don't.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Jack Rehacek on February 01, 2013, 03:49:00 PM
Do you guys think we have more shoulder problems shootihg trad bows than the guys shooting compounds? I had surgury one my left shoulder last may and now my right shoulder is starting to hurt.I can only pull 42lbs now,all my hunting bows are 56lbs. It sucks not being able to practice enough like I used to.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: M60gunner on February 01, 2013, 04:06:00 PM
I also wonder about the lower grip on the bow being easier on the shoulders. Anyone else have any thoughts or evidence that this may be so? I shoot both longbows and recurves and find it easier to shoot a 60lb. longbow than a 60lb. recurve. I am 67+ years old.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: beagles on February 01, 2013, 04:27:00 PM
68 years old and done with heavy bows. shooting through deer with 42# Predator. don't need any more blown out body parts.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Steelhead on February 01, 2013, 04:38:00 PM
I think the lower style grip may facilitate a more even pressure through the hand and wrist.So it may very well be less stressful to some ergonomically with shoulder problems possibly?Who are more sensitive.It may even reduce some handshock traveling up the arm into the shoulder joint.I think its  stronger.Bone structurally speaking.Than a high wrist style grip

I think you should listen to your body as far as what weight or poundage you should be shooting as you get older and how much shooting you should be doing.

You may require more rest between shooting days.As your recovery ability will not be as good as when in your prime.If your overtrianed your asking for a potential injury.You may want to shoot less arrows per session as well and make those count.

I think you may very well be able to extend your shooting  of the bow into your later years and avoid nagging physical issues if you shoot a lighter bow as you get into your late 40s and 50s and avoid injuries or just overuse issues.

We all have diffeernt levels of fitness,different inherant abilities due to our bone structure,bone size,ligament and tendon size and strength and muscle strength/tone.

So some guys are just gonna need to shoot lighter weights than others.

Even a light physical fitness regimen is gonna help an archer avoid injuries to the shoulder joint.Lateral raises and other shoulder exorcises are gonna help.I think high reps and good form are appropriate.A warmup routine like mentioned above similar to what pitchers always do before pitching would be appropriate for an archer as well.

I like Terry's comments above  about using correct form to minimize stress to this critical joint.Bone on bone and correct allignment throughout the draw cycle.

I used to shoot 65-70#s.But am shooting 45-50#s at 30 inches these days.I am 50 years young.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: on February 01, 2013, 05:36:00 PM
i have not been shooting any bows heavy or otherwise, I hurt my left, my left shoulder yesterday learning Campanas Del Alba.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwJ_PGYq9E  I got it to being it was mostly mezmerized, now today i cannot even play  Just goes to show, one can hurt themselves with a light bow as well as a heavy one, if I can do it with a guitar. I never once hurt my shoulders shooting 90 pound bows when I was younger, or it least it did not seem like it at the time, but there must be wear and tear that I was not aware of.  Right now I wish that I listened to John Schulz and had never gone over 55 pounds.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: bawana bowman on February 01, 2013, 09:31:00 PM
I'll be 58 in 4 months. I've shot heavy bows since I was 7 years old.
Okay, I'll explain that statement. My Dad bought me a 45# Bear Kodiak when I was 7, he knew nothing about bows other than I liked shooting them. Thought he did something wonderful for me and I agreed! I may not have drawn it the full 28" but I shot that bow a lot.
By the age of 12 I was shooting a 60# Kodiak. By age 18 I hunted with and consistently shot 80# to 115# bows.

Now at almost 58 my normal hunting weight is 60# and 80#. I can still shoot my 102# longbow accurately with no ill effects, and do so often as my exercise bow.

I'm no superhuman, 5'9", 190lbs. But I have been shooting heavy weights for my entire archery life. My body is use to it, I have never had an injury from shooting heavy.
I do have a shoulder problem from a skydiving accident back in my smoke jumper days. When it flares up I can't shoot anything over 75# without my bow arm collapsing about 1/2 to 3/4 draw. This will last about 3 to 6 weeks and the flare up is gone. Just like over night I can shoot up to 102# again. Can't explain it but that's how it works.

I've pretty much always had good form, guess it came naturally due to my Native American and Welch ancestry, LOL.
The bottom line is I have never had any issues with shoulders due to the weight of the bows I've chosen to shoot. But I will admit my experiences may be completely against the norm of most. Lord knows the rest of my life has......... just my experience on the subject.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: moleman on February 01, 2013, 09:52:00 PM
Thanks for the many posts.
This question came about simply because im 50,yrs young, weighing in at a whopping 150 soaking wet and still shooting 65 to 80 lb bows, with no ill effects and loving every shot, but with that the concern for physical well being.
Seems the best thing to do is let your body do the talking, it will let you know when its time to step down and lighten up.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: mahantango on February 02, 2013, 08:34:00 AM
What Terry said x10. Makes all the difference in the world. Ditto for the low-wrist grip. Keep those muscles strong to protect the joints. Dumbells/kettle bells are your best friends. I'm soon to be 53, 5'9 170lb. Never shot crazy weights, but can comfortably shoot 60lb. all day. Have worked construction for 30 years, so have never babied my body, but stayed in shape.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: ron w on February 02, 2013, 09:05:00 AM
Be 61 years young shortly......I now shoot bows 40-49#'s. I can shoot stuff that's heavier but it plays with my head and my target panic rears it's ugly head quickly. A lot of this pastime is a mental thing and I'm to old and to stuck in my ways to fight it.....lol! So it's mid 40"s for me and just get a bit closer!    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Gil Verwey on February 02, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
I am 58 and shoot bows over 60#.

There are two of my posts in this thread that explain it all from my perspective.

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=119566;p=12
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 02, 2013, 06:57:00 PM
I'm 69 now and am shooting 55-60#'s. I also work out regularly and think that being in decent shape helps a lot. I had rotator cuff surgery as well as a labrum repair to my right shoulder. I healed very quickly from both. After the rotator cuff surgery in the 80's I was shooting 69# 6 months later. I had my labrum repaired when I was 60 something and was shooting 66#'s after rehab. It's my opinion that if all you do is shoot you won't be as good as if you would go to the gym and just stay strong. Cross training and strength training are important, IMO.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Pete Patterson on February 02, 2013, 07:13:00 PM
I'm 65 now and I shoot my Hill Wesley at 60 lbs.  What I've discovered is that if I use the "swing draw" method, I don't have any soreness after shooting.  I don't know the physics of this.  However, putting stress on the shoulder before raising the bow instead of after the bow arm is up and in place seems to be the difference in the two methods.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: LoneWolf73 on February 02, 2013, 08:33:00 PM
I am 57 and shoot up to 65 pound bows. Best weight is 58 pounds.  Use heavier bows to workout. Hit the Gym as often as possible to stay in as good of shape for being 57. Seems to get harder to recover when older. Played Rugby Football for 18 years too and Still can walk/run okay. Can remember the days of playing 4 games in a weekend and back at Practice the following Wednesday. Now can only drink a beer and think about it.LOL.  Ya have to shoot often to stay in the heavy poundage bows and a good warm up/stretch before shooting goes along way!!
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: hvyhitter on February 03, 2013, 03:50:00 PM
51, a little wider than I would like, walk alot, run a little when its warm, and shoot bows in the 60# to 70# range and have been for 20 plus years. Having been a long distance runner and swimmer in my past Ive seen more injuries from overtraining than anything else. In archery thats you 100 to 200 arrow a day every day guys. I only shoot 2 to 3 dozen arrows about 3 times a week as you have to give your muscles time to recover.........
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Steiger3208 on February 03, 2013, 06:17:00 PM
I have a 63# stotler bow I have shot for many many years but am looking to buy another longbow in the 47# to 50# range. With the high quality bows out there I feel there is no better time to lower weight without sacrificing much performance. At 51 yrs. old I thought it is time to be proactive to prevent possible future problems.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Tucker on February 04, 2013, 12:29:00 PM
I shot 60-65# recurves for about 35 yrs.  The last 5 or 6 years with a lot of shoulder and elbow pain. Two years ago I dropped down to 45#. No more pain, lots more fun, and just as many big game animals in the freezer.  Hmmm...I should have made the switch a long time ago.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: WDELongbow on February 07, 2013, 07:59:00 PM
hvyhitter hit it on the head I think. I am actually an ergonomics engineer, so I help companies address work-related injuries due to force, repetition, and awkward posture.  I see potential to apply this technology of injury prevention to archery.  If you shoot heavy there are some things you can do that seem intuitive for preventing injuries:

- Limit # arrows you shoot, and make each one count.
- Pace yourself.  Shoot an arrow, retrieve it, and shoot another.  Shooting 100+ arrows is not a simulation or practice for any sort of hunting conditions (unless shooting doves, lol). Seems to me that most hunting situations would require you to shoot "cold", under pressure without a lot of warmup.
- Space out your practice so you have a day of rest between sessions. Avoid shooting 3-4 days in a row.
- If you begin to experience ANY discomfort while practicing, STOP.  Take a few days off and you will be good as new.  Most injuries begin with subtle signals. Usually a severe injury is due to someone shooting (or working) through the pain until it worsens to the point they can't hack the pain.  Then it can take weeks or months to recover.
- Increase your strength by lifting weights.  If you lift weights with any intensity, you can increase your maximum strength by 30% or more rather easily. The pulling a heavier bow will not feel heavy.

Just a few tips.  That said, I choose to shoot 50-55 lbs because I like to shoot longer practice sessions and like the added control.  I can shoot a heavier bow (release is noticeably better) but I need to be fresh and rested, and limit my shots.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: Meathook 1 on February 07, 2013, 09:23:00 PM
Genes have some to do with it.But you can help by doing the right exercises for the muscles plus proper stretching,and I would recommend useing a foam roll.Im 58 and have been a personal trainer off and on since the end of Vietnam.I shoot from 56# up to 64#.The type of Bow make a big difference also.Any questions you might have just PM me.

             Good Luck Terry
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: longbowman on February 08, 2013, 09:34:00 AM
I'm 59 and shoot between 72# and 80# depending on which bow calls my name that day.  I'm not a big guy, 5'8" and 150# but shoot some arrows at least 360 days a year.  Never had shoulder pain except for a torn rotator but I was back to my regular weight bows in 6 months.  I'm not sure which shoulder everybody says can't take it, is it the bow arm or pulling arm?  I feel if you work at it and stick with it you shouldn't have shoulder problems.  JMO.
Title: Re: Age heavy poundage, and shoulder problems?
Post by: WDELongbow on February 08, 2013, 05:22:00 PM
I have same curiosity as longbowman, which shoulder?