ok gang. I am looking at adding a canoe to the house for general outdoor fun and hunting. I had a plastic type old town about 15 years ago I got used but sold if after I joined the service. This thing went all over the country with me on my little trips and was used a lot. The thing is I'm not sure what it was. I have looked online and have found a few of interest, and am thinking of a three seater skanoe type with the flat back for a possible trolling motor for future use.
lets hear some suggestions and pics if you got them. For general outdoor use and hunting would you go 14 or 16 feet?
Thanks
...multiple seats for multiple people would best be served with the longer the better...hunting slowly along waters edge with potential for taking a shot indicates wide/stable so you don't get yer feathers wet...should your hunt be successful you will need plenty of room for awkward cargo...toss in some camping gear and you will need a yacht... all those potentialities have always lead me to long (18'), light hull (Kevlar), quiet accessories (wood, not aluminum hardware), high sides (more effect by wind), etc... next issue of concern is the type(s) of environments you will use it (open lakes, slow narrow river, number of portages, protected or exposed to high wind, and on and on)...work out as many of these factors as possible to assist in narrowing your selections...rarely will one canoe handle all factors well...
You're right on about the motor. It's an option you don't want to pass. Al is too noisy.
Ghenoe, the original. I have a 15'4" highsider that my dad bought when I was 13. Caught many a fish, very stable even with a 7.5 on it.
http://redrockoutfitting.com/
I was wondering about the aluminum and noise. Thanks.
And Bob4, you just wrote me a book!!! Thanks. Mostly small rivers, not too many portages, and smaller lakes. light camping gear i.e. tarp hammock. and my ruck sack. Nothing for long range rough waters.
Gheenoe, sorry.
I have an old town discovery 16 footer. It is plastic with wood thwarts. I have had it for over 20 years and used it for mild whitewater, river tripping, fishing, hunting and lots of other fun. It is not the best for any specific use but is a great all rounder.
Ditto on the Old Town Discovery. I have a 17 footer for 25yrs. and put it many uses including hunting. Darn good all around canoe (nut)
Old Town makes a square stern called the Discovery Sport 15. That's the one I'd look at.
You didnt mention your budget, lots of options. You do not need a square stern for trolling motor use, just get a motor bracket. Check out Native watercraft for a very stable design.
I no longer own a canoe, but for many years I did and the best one I ever found was the Radisson. Check them out.
Kevin
Brian,
I will try to call ya tomorrow ... too much to discuss in a simple post.
Bob.
Radisson. They make a square stern model,and a transom model that is even better. Unsinkable,40 pounds,well made,great looking canoes. They are a bit pricey. I transom camo 14'er will set you back $1200ish. But that thing has a 800-900 pound payload I think,and you can carry it over your head to the water. rat'
We have a couple Mad River 14' canoes and love them..very light, easy one person hunting...Had a Radisson canoe...that thin aluminum flexes a lot and makes noise when it does....check craigslist...always some deals this time of year..both of ours we picked up for under $300 ea
Look at Goldenhawk canoes. They are a little wider and shorter, carry heavy loads, are light and very maneuverable and almost indestructible. I have had one for years and unless you are going to do very long trips, you cant beat them.
River Ridge Canoes would be my choice.
My favorite, 15.9 Old Town Charles River @ 80lbs carry weight
Carries a lot of gear or large game. Great for spring & summer scouting, fishing and fun
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Greenbrier%202009/IMG_0396.jpg)
Rock tough and great for camping
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Greenbrier%20River%20Canoe%20Trip%202009/IMG_0210.jpg)
Does great in the winter for hunting too
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Greenbrier%20River%20Canoe%20Trip%202009/IMG_0237.jpg)
Manuverable and can handle class III whitewater
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Greenbrier%20River%20Canoe%20Trip%202009/IMG_0418.jpg)
You can get factory seconds with small blemishes for around $700.00.
I trap out of canoes and currently own 2. A 16 foot fiberglass Old Town and 12 foot fiberglass of unknown origin.
Stability is really about the same with either one. Key to short ones is width at the center.Both of mine are double enders but it would be nice to have a flatback for motorized travel. Usually I'm trapping solo so 12 foot is easier to portage but longer canoes do track in water better .
If I were to buy a new canoe today IMHO it would be hard to beat a 14 foot flatback Sportspal.They are made of aircraft aluminum for strength,are completely lined inside with sound deadening foam which by the way allows the canoe to be completely filled with water and not sink. They also have large sponsons attached to the sides which really make them extremely difficult to capsize. Check them out online. Will definately be my next canoe!!
A little Krylon Fusion paint for camo, and that's all you need to get you back in to where ya wanna go.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/CamoCanoe3.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/CamoCanoe4-1.jpg)
An actual shot from a canoe is hard to come by in my areas. Most large game catch on to you & your canoe pretty quick. It is good to get you back in the areas you wanna go without as much detection.
Any prospector style canoe in roylex, wenonah makes a 16ft and 15ft. We have a 15ft great on rivers and such, does fine on lakes, can trip with if need to, we do have a kevlar tripping canoe.
Handles the smallest creeks but even spring deer seem to get spooked.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/pics175.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/pics181.jpg)
The smaller game does not mind it much.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/pics187.jpg)
You may want to learn about the different parts of a canoe that would affect how it is used. I have been a whitewater raft guide, video kayaker, and whitewater kayak instructor (ACA certified) on the New and Gauley Rivers in Southern West Virginia since 96'. Now keep in mind that all of my experience is with Class III-V+ whitewater so I have little experience with rec-touring boats and there is a world of difference.
Here are some design terms:
Rocker: This is the banana shape of a boat as viewed from the side. the more rocker, the easier it turns. You would want more of this for whitewater applications and less for flat water. The con of having more rocker is the boat becomes difficult to keep it going in a straight line and you will have to compensate more with paddling strokes such as the J-Stroke.
Tracking: This is the ability for a boat to glide in a straight line. This comes in handy for crossing large bodies of water. Again, this is what you want for lakes and flat moving water. Boats that track well do not have much rocker at all and may have a keel.
Keel: This is not found on whitewater boats because it is used to improve tracking. It is simply a ridge of some sort.
Just my 2 cents:
I have used plastic kayaks all over North America and have run everything from large rivers to steep creeks where hitting rocks is a fact of life. I have had boats fall off of vehicles and bounce down into canyons and I have dragged boats for many miles while carrying out of remote gorges. The point I am trying to make is I have never had one crack. Plastic does not glide through the water as nicely as a hard material such as fiberglass or aluminum but it is darn near indestructible. If I was to buy a canoe, I would want to decide if the majority of my boating would be solo or with another person, what I would be carrying, the type of water I would mostly be paddling, and how rough I plan on treating it.
The Charles River canoe has a moderate rocker and tracks fairly well but remains manuverable enough to dodge rocks in swifter waters.
Bicster, I've taken my Charles River canoe down the New River in WV from Hinton to Thurmond but stay away from the bigger mean stuff on the lower New River and Gauley Rivers!
I love the WV mountains and rivers!!!
After running fully loaded thru Brooks Falls on the New River, portage around 16' Sandstone falls and on to Thurmond. Probably not to smart without a vest on huh? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/New%20River%20Hinton%20to%20Sandstone%202009/IMG_0240.jpg)
Thank you everyone so much for this information. You all have been very helpful, and Osage those pics are breathtaking.
cost i am not wanting to go over 700 dollars, and general purpose all around is what I am looking for. Nothing to take on rapids or ocean just your standard midwest paddling. I have my research cut out for me.
An Old Town Discovery 158 or 174 is an excellent choice. I have a friend who has beat the crap out of his Disco 158 for years on shallow, rocky rivers and it's still going strong.
Good luck in your search...getting there is half the fun!
Joseph,
Nice pics! Yes, I would be wearing a vest but feel naked without one.
Vest or no vest, looks like fun
Trap
I had an Old Town Discovery 158 that I really loved. Sold it to finance a bigger boat. Picked up a Pelican Explorer DLX for a great price a couple years later. Figured it would get me by til I could afford another Old Town but it has held up and functioned great.
(http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/rjwalton8/P1010530.jpg)
I owned an Old Town Tripper, 17'-3", for over 30 years. Great canoe but heavy. carried 1,200# of men and gear. Mainly a two man canoe. If you will be hunting single I'd opt for a 16" Kevlar boat that you can carry on your shoulders without getting a hernia. I'd never go smaller than 16' for general canoe work myself. Avoid aluminum like the plague.
People talk about unsinkable canoes.
If you put a trolling motor on the back, it will sink most any canoe. There is surprisingly little bouyancy in any canoe.
My hunting buddy has never had a problem with his squared off and a trolling motor. We use them for everything from duck hunting to bowfishing.
I guess I didn't state that in an understandable way.
If you tip the canoe, the motor will sink it. It won't sink a floating canoe. It's when things go bad that the motor becomes a liability.
Birch bark
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Birch_Bark_hunters.jpg)
Wood and canvas
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Yew_canoe.jpg)
In a pinch you can use aluminum
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Canoe_Buck.jpg)
My OldTown was one of the tippiest canoes I ever owned. I know you have one or had one but I would be looking for a canoe with a bit more stability. I cannot remember the model I had but it had the wicker seats ect and cost me about 900. about 20 years ago. I was looking at another OldTown with the square stern, Probably should have gotten it. I had a Smoker before that and liked it much better. The wood for quiet is a valid point but also stability is. You might actually want to stand up and shoot.
God bless you and good luck. Steve
If you are going to be paddling solo mostly, I would look at a Penobscot 16' Old Town or a Bell Morning Star, or a 16' Souris River. If you will mostly be paddling tandem a higher payload canoe like a 17' Souris River or a 17' Penobscot or a Mad River Explorer. None of my canoes are for sale, but if you ever feel like lugging a hefty food pack for an old man with a limp over some rough portages you can use one of mine. Oh yes, you will need a good rock throwing arm for when the bears come into camp.
You can check out lots of canoes here http://www.canoecopia.com/canoecopia/page.asp?pgid=1001 come March.
My 16'; Old Town camper has worked for me on many trips.
My solo trip in a bow only reserve b/c it paralles an interstate Hwy.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/DSCN1064-1.jpg)
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/DSCN1065-1.jpg)
Scouting for above trip with my God child and nephews.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/190.jpg)
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/195.jpg) (http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/DSCN1066-1.jpg)
It was ice cold on the hunting trip and 100 plus degrees on the scouting trip.I am in a kayak the boys are in my canoe. Kip
If at all possible, try out various types and makes of watercraft. You will be amazed at all of the differences once you do this. Be honest about how often, with who and where you will use the boat as well because all watercraft are built to handle certain situations better than others.
Personally I bought a fishing kayak that is 14' long. This is called a sit-in (vs. a sit-on) type kayak but it could easily be called a solo canoe in my opinion. It is extremely stable and manuverable and it can carry a lot of stuff. I liked it better than the typical solo canoes because of the seat. It offers back support (which this ol' man needs desperately) and most canoes do not. The lower center of gravity and seating arrangement helps it to be very stable. When loading / unloading and when shooting, this will be a very important aspect. My hunting and fishing is done in mostly flat water lakes and streams, with the occasional small rapids. I needed something suitable for one person, stable to cast / shoot, easily steered and light of weight for portaging. This was a full wish list but I believe the boat I chose does very well.
QuoteOriginally posted by eflanders:
Personally I bought a fishing kayak that is 14' long. This is called a sit-in (vs. a sit-on) type kayak but it could easily be called a solo canoe in my opinion. It is extremely stable and manuverable and it can carry a lot of stuff. I liked it better than the typical solo canoes because of the seat. It offers back support (which this ol' man needs desperately) and most canoes do not. The lower center of gravity and seating arrangement helps it to be very stable. When loading / unloading and when shooting, this will be a very important aspect. My hunting and fishing is done in mostly flat water lakes and streams, with the occasional small rapids. I needed something suitable for one person, stable to cast / shoot, easily steered and light of weight for portaging. This was a full wish list but I believe the boat I chose does very well.
Sounds like my Native Ultimate, I have the 12' single, its my go-to single everytime now. After a lifetime of building and paddling pirogues, kayaks, canoes, etc, this is the single best comfy solution I've ever had by far. I could probably manage a shot if needed, but its a joy to have a full mesh seat and back. I can spend the day in this and never have back issues. In fact I have to make myself stop, never really need a break.
They make a 14' double that converts into a single when needed:
Native (http://nativewatercraft.com/boat.cfm?id=7)
I'm telling ya, these are that good, would suggest a hard look.
I too have the Native Ultimate 12' solo basic & love it, would like the 14.5' or 16' model for family trips.
.
Native ultimate 14.5 and get the tandem set-up if it's mostly just you. If you are looking more for full time tandem then I'd step up to the 16' they offer. They are super stable do to the H hull design, turn nice and yet track very well. Not sure how they make it handle so nice in all manuvers but it does.
If you're thinking about a square stern with a motor you can't beat a Grumman Sportboat if you can find one.
I have had an old style Coleman Scanoe (aluminum frame) for around a dozen years and love it. Bought it after fishing out of a buddies Scanoe for a while. They are stable enough for one guy to stand and fish and can carry a good-sized load. I live in East TN and the rocks in the rivers can be rough on boats. The scanoe has some battle scars, but is still in good shape. The frame tends to slide over rocks instead of sticking like aluminum does. I have a 34 lb. trolling motor on it and it will push it pretty well even with my big butt and gear in it. It isn't horrible to paddle, but the square stern doesn't slide through the water like a standard canoe will. Have run mild Class 3s in it, but wouldn't recommend making a habit of it. I generally line it through rapids where I don't want to risk losing my gear. The major downside to the Scanoe is the weight. Mine tips the scales at around 120 pounds. I can load it on the roof rack by myself without too much of a problem, but I'm not a little guy. Although hope to work on that some this spring! :)
The best canoe for you will depend on exactly what you want it for. If you need a canoe that will run heavy rapids and/or be good for paddling long distances, then the Scanoe probably isn't your best bet. If you want ultra-stability and load hauling with the option of using a trolling motor to get where you want to go without having to paddle much, then I would definitely put the Scanoe on my short list.
Good luck and hope you enjoy whatever one you get. But be careful. Like with bows, canoes and kayaks can get addictive! Having just one won't do. I'm now up to a canoe and 3 kayaks. :rolleyes:
You guys guessed it, I have the Native Ultimate. It wasn't cheap, but it is worth it.
I have decided on a Paw Paws pirouge. I should have it in march.
Hey Brian,
Send pics when you get it, let me know how you like it.
Bob.
I sure will.
Those with the native ultimate's, do you shot out of them sitting down or can you stand up to bow fish? Is the 400-450 pound limit of the two solos enough for a 215 pound guy, his gear, and deer?
Now your talking. I was looking at the Native Ultimate for bowfishing.
Mad Rivers are good, so are Old Town Discovery series. I used these to outfit guide trips on the Allagash up in Maine and they are close to bulletproof. Mad River bought Dagger and re-introduced the Legend, hell of a boat if you can stand the price tag.
The Native's seat back folds down so you can sit higher to shoot while seated. I have not tried to shoot from it while standing.
for those that are concerned about standing up to shoot or fly cast from a canoe, these are pretty much bullet proof. http://store.springcreek.com/Canoe-Accessories/Canoe-Accessories/Spring-Creek-Ethafoam-Stabilizer-Floats-Complete-Package-p1588.html
we have also used lashing bars from spring creek,to fix two canoes together, which makes two canoes more sea worthy than a pontoon boat.
I "test drove" the Native Ultimate 14.5 and 16' a couple years ago. The manufacturer is local and had a Demo Day nearby. They are amazing but a bit pricey. This is the time of year to shop for one on Craigslist (cabin fever/dirt time withdrawal makes folks forget what they paid for them, LOL) If you're looking for day trip stability, you probably can't do better. The "lawn chair" back support type seats are priceless and removable. Camping out of it would be pretty "minimalist" and in choppy water your gear may get wet if unprotected, due to it's low profile. I'd go with a light weight canoe if that was my goal.
When things get rough, and they often do, some spare freeboard is always a handy thing.
Natives are great boats will look at the pawpaws
i always like the lighest boat for portages.. :campfire:
I have a Native Watercraft Ultimate 12 Basic. Awesome Boat.
The oldtown guide 119 from Dicks is a good looking boat for solo stuff. I have a yak and love it.RC
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/kbetts_01/c73a1bdac42aafe29ea1e588998fd376.jpg)
My 13.5' Herters Goose &Duck skiff, circa 1976. I lucked into this thing last year. Paddles like a dream with a kayak paddle. I added a cedar, false floor which adds some weight, but I traded a wheel bow for a small trailer.
Another pic....
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/kbetts_01/8bdab0e7e9e61b65c651168d8bf026b7.jpg)
I have the 12' Radisson. Very light, foam covered floor to help keep the noise down. I made a rear motor mount for mine.
Mine came with oar locks and foam seats that sit down inside the canoe. I made seats that sit on top of the canoe.
Last night I scored a canoe from a trade. wide aluminum and sweet. I have to paint it, so what do you guys use for that.
Old Town Tripper
Any of the aluminum canoes I have painted in the past were wiped down with denatured alcohol and painted with parkers duck boat paint. You can get parkers from cabela's or if you are in south Jersey, Tips Hardware in Tuckerton.
Running Buck, I have spent a lot of money at Tips. Great place.
Old Town Royalex, weighs about 34 lbs.
lots of good information being passed along....
I have been looking at getting a canoe to do some sneekin myself.
Does the size of a man play any part in picking a boat?
I have a scanoe in my back yard. It's in good shape and reasonable. PM me if interested. Dick (NE ILL)
Blaino, the size of the paddler or paddlers makes a huge difference. Bell canoes used to have a paddler named Cliff Jakobson test their designs. Cliff is a very knowledgeable paddling outdoorsman and fine person, but he is about half the size as the average hunter. When he says a certain model was his favorite the rest of us would need one that was two foot longer to be the same boat. When a boat states its capacity as say 500 pounds, you do not want to go to that number. With canoes leaving yourself about half of the available freeboard is a good thing. As I stated ealier, the 16' Penobscot makes a good canoe for two small paddlers and gear(camping gear and food pack), but it is a solo for a large paddler with gear. Then if it is used for hunting there is still freeboard for loading a deer and when one needs to use more than 3/5ths of a boats capacity, you can almost be certain that the wind is going to whip up some big waves. Boats like 16' Prospector designs or Mad River Explorers, and and other 16 footers with 35" beams can do double duty.
When I take new people along on wilderness canoe trips, the litmus test is if they are willing to learn before the trip. If they think that there is nothing to learn about paddling and wilderness camping , they stay home. I have been burned often enough by people that think they can BS their way across a large Canadian lake when the wind is blowing.
I was lucky and found a Nativecraft 16" tandem boat that is fantastic. I got the boat and 2 custom carbon fiber double ended kayak paddles for $800. It has a rudder and most comfortable seat I have ever used in a canoe or kayak. It's even OD green so I don't have to paint it!
I used to love my ol' 12' polyethylene canoe back in my duck hunting days. I could go anywhere with it. My next one will be most likely a 15 or 16' prospector style cedar stripper that I'll build myself.
How do you guys mount your bows(or dont mount).And what king of seats do you have or have modified. I am going to redo all the seats and supports in this canoe.15ft Lowe Line Aluminum canoe
I scored a 10 foot solo canoe in need of a fiberglass patch a few weeks ago. will sit on the floor but am excited to give it a whirl. Hope to be able to shoot while kneeling if the opportunity ever presented.
I cant wait to be able to get where others cant, this is gonna open up a ton of new hunting areas.
I currently paddle a Old Town Guide 119 solo canoe. I use it mainly for chasing river smallmouth bass and trout on the fly rod. Its a fantastic solo boat, especially with some modifications that are easy to do.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/DarrinG/Canoe%20Kayak/canoe2.jpg)
Very nice picture!!!!
Well I have decided to not go with the Pirouge this time due to money and getting it up here to IL. I will be going withs the Old Town Guide 147. After careful research and the excellent help of a fellow tradganger it has become clear this canoe will serve all of my intended uses perfectly.
Good choice! the Guide 147 has chines that will make it a very stable, easy paddling canoe.
Brian,
You made a wise decision for your use(s) and budget. Those are great canoes - bombproof. Later on, if you want a lighter one - keep your eyes open for an old town royalex camper 15' or 16'. My camper 15' (14'10") is 58 lbs and will this spring sport a minkota 34-lbs thrust (sharing my tractor's dual-purpose battery) :D
I also use a kayak paddle for both solo or tandem - helps keep the kids errant path straight.
I sent you an email w/attachment for some ideas. Open it and click on all the worksheet tabs at the bottom.
I have a Bear Creek - Square Bear. Its 13 feet, camoed from the factory, has a square stearn for a motor, real wide, stable and light enough to serve as a car-topper!
www.bearcreekcanoes.com/canoe_squarebear.html (http://www.bearcreekcanoes.com/canoe_squarebear.html)
Came up with some pic's of the Native 12
It would be easy for us smaller guys to shoot standing after you get the hang of it.
(http://www.angeloholsteins.com/images/Pictures/Hunting/boat-ryan.jpg)
(http://www.angeloholsteins.com/images/Pictures/Hunting/boat_lexi-mikala.jpg)
I would get the tandem 14.5 model if I was buying today.
I've got the Native Watercraft Ultimate 14.5 Solo. This thing is amazing and I love it for both kayaking, fishing, bowfishing and duck hunting.
Kbetts, great camo idea with the duckboat ghille look. I have a kayak set up similarly, using pieces of that woven palm frond matting tucked onto the front and rear decks. Adding those frayed rope hangie downies will certainly add to it !
I also have an old aluminum Grumman Voyager style. I paid $200 for it years ago. It is long and wide and HEAVY (I believe it is near or at 100 pounds, from reading the literature). It is a beast to pick up and portage or put on the truck roof by myself. (I remember the days when I portaged that in Boundary Waters with a food pack on my back and a smaller pack on the front. . it wasn't THAT long ago was it ?)
But it is what I got, it works fine.
It will carry me and any three or four of you guys. Two guys, tree stands, bows, and two deer is no big deal.
I installed a pair of removeable
outriggers to the center thwart to add some more stability and my son and I shoot carp out of it, standing up.
Having the bestest, prettiest, fastest, etc is great, but you can also make due with what ya got available with a little work and thought.
That said. . I am thinking it is time for a light trailer. . man that thing is heavy.
Thanks
ChuckC
I have a 15' and some pelican I bought new for about $600.
It is a fun one to use but if you are going mostly alone with wind and rough waters, I would advise for a fishing kayak.
Days on the water are days well spent
F-Manny
Choose the canoe that will best suit your needs. I went on a moose hunt in Northern Ontario where we traveled downstream 40 miles as the crow flys. On the trip back out going upstream we had to use motors on our square stern canoes.
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Moose_float1.jpg)
Here's my little 12' wood and canvas canoe next to a 26' North Canoe....quite a contrast..
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Lake_trip15.jpg)