Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: The Huntress on January 23, 2013, 12:43:00 PM
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I was working on the design for a new set of arrows for my Toth Istvan horsebow today, but I couldn't get the numbers to work out. I called three rivers for help and the gentleman there painted a grim picture.
Here's the thing: my bow has lightened up/slackened up in the last year or so. It's not as fast nor is it hitting as hard as it used to.
Plus, it's developed a slight limb twist. I haven't tried to fix it yet, but what's the point? This is my hunting bow and it doesn't have enough OOMPH anymore.
I'm sad. I tried everything with this bow, but we just never did click perfectly. I have made some good shots with it, and killed some deer, but...it just didn't *sing*, ya know?
I built several sets of arrows for it over the years and never was happy with the arrow flight. It was pretty accurate, but who knows if that was the bow/arrows or just me compensating?
So I'm thinking of putting it on the shelf. It doesn't seem worth buying the supplies for new arrows when it no longer has enough power.
I've posted before about American bowyers, but I guess it's time to really start thinking hard about getting a new bow before fall.
I'm looking for something handmade, traditional or primitive style, 45-50" draw and I have a 25" draw. Something that can be tailored to my short draw would be ideal. It also needs to have a small or custom grip. I wear a ladies L or XL glove. At this point I would consider another horsebow, a longbow or maybe even a recurve.
Primary usage is hunting large game. Shortest bow length is preferable to get through the brush. I also do a lot of target shooting to stay in practice.
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Oops I meant 45-50# draw WEIGHT and a 25" draw. Right handed shooter.
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I would check out Hoots custom bows. Great short bows both longbow and recurve. He is a sponser here. Since you were shooting a horse bow, the recurve might be the way to go.
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Are you saying 45-50#@28 and, you draw 25, or you want it to draw 45-50#@25?
Regardless, I would think just about any short hybrid would work for you -- a Shrew, Centaur or ACS, for example. A short recurve like a Bear Magnum would also do the trick. All of these bows are going to feel and shoot quite a bit different from a horse bow.
IMO, horse bows draw extremely smoothly from beginning to end and give a lot of zip to the arrow for their poundage. The bows I'm suggesting will have more preload, i.e., they'll feel heavier earlier in the draw. They all will have a pistol or locator grip and be cut to center or past center. That's a big difference from the straight grip and no arrow cut-out of a horsebow. Both features contribute to more consistent hand placement, arrow flight and accuracy though.
For what it's worth, I've never found a little extra bow length to be any trouble in moving through the woods. In fact, I find I get hung up more with shorter bows. Brush tends to catch in the larger space between the string and limb tip on a shorter bow because of the higher brace height. Also, I use the longer bow to quietly part brush in front of me with very little movement, threading my way through, so to speak.
I expect you'll get lots of other recommendations as well. Good luck in your search
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Look at the bright side - at least you get to shop for a new bow. With all the great sponsors here at Trad Gang, the possibilities are almost endless. Enjoy shopping!
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Our 54" recurve Or 56" longbow would be perfect for you and Tracey can customize the grip to the size you need.
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Originally posted by Bow man:
Our 54" recurve Or 56" longbow would be perfect for you and Tracey can customize the grip to the size you need.
:cool:
I've shot both, great bows. :thumbsup:
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/4runr/2011-11-12_08-13-09_283.jpg)
The Hill Country Cree.
It's this year's St. Judes bow model.
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I've shot quite a few of Chad Francis' Lost Creek Life Enders. His longer Judge is a bit smoother at my 29.5" draw, but the fastest bow I've ever owned was a 58" Life Ender. It shot 2219's with 190gr broadheads or 200gr field points like a 60#'er.
If you can find one in the classifieds (they turn up once in a while) I'll bet you like the small grip and they are very quick. I sold a 52# 60" that was just a hair too much for me, but it would have fit your 25" draw to a "T".
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/4runr/2012-01-21_15-12-25_834.jpg)
It's a 56" Recurve with an attitude.
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That pic of the Cree came up while I was typing. I tried one at K'zoo last year. That and the Shrew were mighty nice.
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I've shot the Hill Country Cree. That is one mighty fine bow!!!
You wouldn't be disappointed.
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Originally posted by Bow man:
Our 54" recurve Or 56" longbow would be perfect for you and Tracey can customize the grip to the size you need.
I agree. Tracey makes a great, quiet, hard hitting bow.
I have a short draw as well. It is very important to get a bow that will fit. I have done well on whitetail with bows in the 54"-56" range.
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I have a like new Martin Rebel 50#s at 28" I may be willing to sell if you're interested in it.
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Wow,that lil`Cree is sweet!That little horse bow that custom king sells looks good for a small price.I think they are made from Olive wood.Looked interesting.Might be an option.
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Not cheap and not entirely "primitive", but Bob Morrison makes a very fine recurve bow. A 13" ILF riser with Size "A" Super Short Max1 limbs would make a really nice, short and very snappy bow.
I ended up ordering Size "B" Short limbs for me, but tried the Super Shorts, and even with my longer ~27" draw it drew and shot very smoothly.
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I'm just wondering if you kept your bow unstrung when not in use ?
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My wife has a St Joe River Bow it is a great bow for her it is 40@ 28" and it shoots smoothly and its beautiful
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/robslifts/DonnasRedElmTeaktattoo.jpg)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/robslifts/DonnasRedElmTeakEmblem.jpg)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/robslifts/DonnasRedElmTeakstrung.jpg)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/robslifts/DonnasRedElmTeaklimb.jpg)
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Come to the Carolina traditional archers shoot and you can try a bunch. Mike Treadway will be there probably , cold mountain bows will be there. You can try one of my bows or my friends tall tines. I have not seen Lee Hoots at a shoot this year but he might be there. If you call him, he might can make it. The next shoot is the first Saturday in February . Tim in Ashe county.
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My suggestion, based on experience, is bamabows.com Nate is one of the sponsers on this site. Excellent bows for an excellent price. Nate is a great guy to deal with and he makes such quality longbows in D or R/D.
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Originally posted by Orion:
Are you saying 45-50#@28 and, you draw 25, or you want it to draw 45-50#@25?
>>>>I want it to draw 45-50# at 25".
IMO, horse bows draw extremely smoothly from beginning to end and give a lot of zip to the arrow for their poundage.
>>>I agree - that's why I bought one and have been happy with it overall. I didn't mention it in my post, but I may just buy another horse bow. Kassai's Hunter or Grozer's Tatar Short Bow are the contenders:
http://www.horsebows.com/bows2.htm#TartarShortBow
For what it's worth, I've never found a little extra bow length to be any trouble in moving through the woods.
>>>>It is for me. I'm only 5'3", and I just don't want something my height to drag around. I know from experience that won't work for me. It's also a problem if I have to climb.
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Originally posted by The Night Stalker:
Come to the Carolina traditional archers shoot and you can try a bunch. Mike Treadway will be there probably , cold mountain bows will be there. You can try one of my bows or my friends tall tines. I have not seen Lee Hoots at a shoot this year but he might be there. If you call him, he might can make it. The next shoot is the first Saturday in February . Tim in Ashe county.
I can't make it out in February, but maybe I can get there for the big championship shoot. Good suggestion, thank you!
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Originally posted by Stringpuller#1:
I'm just wondering if you kept your bow unstrung when not in use ?
I did. It was also in a bow sock, stored flat, even temperature...in short, I took good care of it.
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Check out Grozers biocomposite Assyrian bow if you are looking for a short horse bow. Light siyahs and radical reflex means it's fast, shock free and extremely smooth draw. There are tons of stored energy early in the draw which will perform much better for your short draw. The limbs are also not prone to twist because the strung shape being closer to a hybrid longbow than a true recurve.
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check out the two tracks ambush recurve
short and hard hitting
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Delete please
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I think you would really like the grip on the Shrew bows but they are hard to come by now. But the bowyer is now making similar bows under the Java Man name. These bows are very light in weight and the risers almost seem delicate while still accomodating a wide range of hand sizes. And they are hand made customs. I'm a lefty and I shoot the Super Shrew in 50# @ 28"
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Originally posted by ncheels:
My suggestion, based on experience, is bamabows.com Nate is one of the sponsers on this site. Excellent bows for an excellent price. Nate is a great guy to deal with and he makes such quality longbows in D or R/D.
Second this one. My wife got a Bama Royal Expedition for Christmas and it's short, light and very fast. We have two of these bows now and they shoot very accurately and are more aggressive pound for pound against shorter recurves of similar weight. Nate is top notch and will do well for you. For your money it's hard to beat a Bama.
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58" Holm-made Osprey all the way!!! You'll be thrilled.
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The Huntress, Something that can be tailored to my short draw would be ideal.
How would a 50 inch three piece static recurve takedown tayolerd to a 25 inch draw sound to you?
If interested email me.
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Originally posted by Nativestranger:
Check out Grozers biocomposite Assyrian bow if you are looking for a short horse bow. Light siyahs and radical reflex means it's fast, shock free and extremely smooth draw. There are tons of stored energy early in the draw which will perform much better for your short draw. The limbs are also not prone to twist because the strung shape being closer to a hybrid longbow than a true recurve.
Wow, thanks for the tip. I would love to have a horn bow someday, and this looks like a great in between step. I'm kind of glad and also dismayed to know about this bow now...I am afraid to ask how much it costs! ;)
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Originally posted by The Huntress:
Originally posted by Nativestranger:
Check out Grozers biocomposite Assyrian bow if you are looking for a short horse bow. Light siyahs and radical reflex means it's fast, shock free and extremely smooth draw. There are tons of stored energy early in the draw which will perform much better for your short draw. The limbs are also not prone to twist because the strung shape being closer to a hybrid longbow than a true recurve.
Wow, thanks for the tip. I would love to have a horn bow someday, and this looks like a great in between step. I'm kind of glad and also dismayed to know about this bow now...I am afraid to ask how much it costs! ;) [/b]
It is a real horn bow. Go look up grozerarchery.com and what they say about biocomposite construction. Its suppose to have the best of both horn and sinew and glass wood contruction. I paid about $300 or €250 for mine.
A video of someone shooting with one. You can really see how it performs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0wvZvafdgo
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Look up Dean Marlow he is a fellow member. He makes a real nice selfbow very primitive and very hard hitting. Look him up . Jon
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Wouldn't be any flies on a 54" Thunderchild.
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I can only recommend the bow I would go with and I've tried all of the following Horsebow makers:
Grozer; The horn broke in two places...
Hwarang; the string can come unstrung so you have to keep an eye on the centering at the tips
Kassai: great bow but too big for a horsebow
and kept the Saluki.. In my case a Dasmascus. my regular poundage bow 45# and the Saluki I have is 60#, yet it feel like a 50-53# pull... and yes, it zings arrows... like there is no tomorrow.. I would call and check with Lukas, he might have a lower poundage bow (40-50#) he might sale.. the wait time was 8-12 month, I have not spoke to him for a ling time tho
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UPDATE: I found a Mohawk at my home bow shop, Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear in Denver. It's a 62" longbow, D-shape, 53# at 28". Bamboo limbs and bocote riser.
I still want a new horse bow that's tillered for my short draw, but this longbow shoots like BUTTAH!
Plus it was awesome to see Tom and the gang over there. Getting to buy a bow from them while visiting..even better!
I'll get some pics taken and posted here soon. There were so many great bows posted in this thread. Thanks, everyone (awfully late). :)
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Do be careful of Grover, an autopsy of one of their "horn bows" found wood screws, epoxy and huge glue joints. There was nothing traditional or safe about its construction.
http://198.170.107.188/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2689
You can view the original document there, and the pictures are eye opening to say the least.
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Aww man, that is sad news, halfseminole. I was really considering one of their horse bows. Not a horn one, though.
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Helen has a 58" 47# @ 25" Checkmate "longhorn" she wants to sell. It has yew under clear glass and action lams, with Chechen in riser. Its a bow based off of a Turkish design.
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I have around the same draw length as you and my fastest bows are the Korean Hwarang bows.
They are also easy to shoot if you have halfway decent form and hold them with the correct grip.
If you have a Toth bow so far, you will find that the Toth bow is shooting your arrow as slow as molassed compared to a Korean bow. And this is normal because of the massive Siyahs/leather coverage they have.
Now, I don't know exactly what kind of poundage you want, but if you want a certain poundage @ your 25" draw, you have to study force draw curves of these bows to get where you want to be.
Example:
http://www.aixbow.de/shop/images/diagramme/kaya/HEE0060M55.pdf
If you're used to "horse bows", then a regular bow will most likely not suit you. Too heavy in the riser. I think a regular bow will be at least 10-15 fps slower than a comparable Korean at your draw length. The KAYA KTB is 48" and around $275 brand new.
My 9 year old protégé won the Cub Class with the KAYA at the IBO Trad World and was only shooting this bow for 2 days before the shoot.
His bow is 45#@30" and he draws it to his ear, which is about 25" draw. It zips a 400 grain arrow with authority and will go whitetail hunting this fall.
I also traded a few weeks ago one of my longbows for a Hwarang with 55#@30". I only shot it once. Too light in draw weight for me. I may let it go if I get a fair offer. As to the allegation, that the Hwarang can loose its string. This is only possible if you did not string the bow using the traditional step through technique, but use a regular stringer and twist the limbs.
Unless the bow is completely out of alignment, with its design this is nearly impossible.
I also build Korean style bows by myself for fun and there is hardly any point that could be improved in the design.
I also have a Grozer Indo-Persion full Horn composite. This bow does not have screws in it, but it is not for the beginner and definitely not very fast with a short draw.
It is no wonder that Mohawk D-bows draws like butter, because you draw it short and it has no pre-load in the limbs. This will cost you around 15fps or more in the arrow speed department using the same gpp. I think 62" is way too long for your draw length.
I also use my Hwarang for deer hunting from a treestand or groundblind. Beats any longbow/recurve hands down in maneuverability.
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Interesting, Robertfishes. Do you have any pictures of the bow? Does it have a shelf?
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I can take pictures later today. It does have a shelf. Bow is right handed. Helen only shoots it a couple of times each year.