Post by: Craig on January 23, 2013, 08:49:00 AM
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=93&t=000558
PLEASE NOTE: this is an Admin approved thread
Post by: bornagainbowhunter on January 23, 2013, 08:56:00 AM
I have a job and farm... don't get to watch TV, but if it was done in the name of our 2nd Ammendment Rights, we should all stand proud and support them!!
God Bless,
Nathan
Post by: bornagainbowhunter on January 23, 2013, 08:57:00 AM
God Bless,
Nathan
Post by: onewhohasfun on January 23, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
I know this is not trad-bow related but kudos to those that have taken a stand and decided to "boycott" the show.
If we don't stand our ground, WHAT'S NEXT?
Post by: northener on January 23, 2013, 09:06:00 AM
Sportsman nation wide, including tradional archery, need to stand united supporting our second ammendment rights.
Post by: fz4vgq on January 23, 2013, 09:14:00 AM
As I tell all my hunting friends..... I've never met an anti-g_n person that wasn't an anti-hunting person. Stand united !
Post by: Mint on January 23, 2013, 09:32:00 AM
Post by: David Spear on January 23, 2013, 09:37:00 AM
Post by: 2treks on January 23, 2013, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: joe ashton on January 23, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: champ38 on January 23, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on January 23, 2013, 09:49:00 AM
2 Million Bullets
24/7 Hunting TV
Absaroke-Beartooth Outfitters
Alaska’s Ravencroft Lodge
Alaskan Outdoors TV
Ambush Firearms
American Whitetails of PA
Antler Insanity
Apex Tactical
Appalachian Big Game TV
Arrowhead Outdoors
Artistic Visions Wildlife Studio
Athens Archery
Atlantic Tactical
Avian X Decoys
Banded Calls
Bangin Redhedz Turkey Gear
Bear Archery
Big Game Butter
Blitz TV
Body Guard 360
Bohning Archery
Boulder Basin Outfitters
Boondock Outdoors
Bow Hunter’s Den
Bow Life, LLC
Buck Bomb
Burt Coyote Lumenok
C&D Outfitters
Cabela’s
Camo Addiction
Campbell Cameras
CanCooker
Chaparral Hunting Adventures
Cochrane River Outfitters
Cody Turkey Calls
Cold Steel Knives
Combative Edge
Continental Divide Outfitters
Cross Canyon Arms
Cutting Edge Bullets
Darkwoods Blind
DCVR
Dead Ringer
Deer and Deer Hunting.com
Direct Action Tactical Firearms
Dirty Dog Outdoors
Domari Nolo Defense Consulting
Dominance is Everything Hunting System
Dominator 365
Dokken Oakridge Kennels
Down N Dirty Outdoors
Drakes Migration Nation
Driven TV
Droptine Outfitters
DuckWater Boats
Eastern Chapter Wild Sheep Foundation
Eastern Outdoors
Easton Bow Hunting
Excalibur Crossbow US, Inc
Farmland Trophies Outfitting
Fear No Evil
Field Proven Calls
Firearms Industry Consulting Group
Firenock
Fish Outdoor Properties
Flatline Productions
Foiles Migrators, Inc
Forbes Turkey Calls
FOXPRO High Performance Game Calls
Full Circle Outdoors
Furtakers TV
Ghost River Outfitters – Alberta
Goey Hunting Calls
Gone Wild Outdoors
Goodling Rifles
Grand-Safari.com – South Africa/Tanzania/Cameroon
Gut N Tag, LLC
H.S. Specialities
Heartland Whitetails
Herd Guard
Hevi-Shot
High Lonesome Outfitters
HookHunt
Hoyt Archery Inc
Honey Creek Outfitters
Hunter Safety Systems
Hunter Specialties w/ Rick White
Hunters and Guides Connection
Hunters Comfort, LLC
Hunter’s Specialties
Huntin’ Is Good! TV
IceHole Coolers
International Bowhunting Organization
Iron Kin Hunt Club
IScope
J & M Traditions
Keystone Country Store
Keystone Elk Country Alliance
King of the Mountain Inc.
Kinsey’s Outdoors
Kodabow
Lancaster Archery Supply
Lanco Tactical
Leupold & Stevens Inc.
Lone Oak Retreivers
Major League Bowhunter
Masterpiece Outdoors, Inc.
Men in Treestands Productions
Midwest Whitetail Adventures
Mindful of Nature LLC
Montana Mountain West Outfitters
Mountain Dog Chews
Muddy Outdoors
Muskie Moose, LLC
NasHunt Outdoors
National Wild Turkey Federation
Nature Blinds, LLC
NasHunt Outdoors
National Rifle Association
Northern Hideaway Outfitters
Northern Outdoor Lodge
Northern Wilderness Outfitters
North Mountain Pepper Works
Ol’Man Treestands
Old Goat Outdoors
Open Season TV
Outdoor Channel Outfitters
Outdoor Edge Knives
Outdoor Specialist Group
Outdoorsnative.com
Ozonics Hunting
PA Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs
PA Taxidermist Association, Inc
Pat Strawser Custom Calls
Pennsylvania Trappers Assoc.
Perry’s No Peep Archery Sights
Pipeline Ridge Hunting Preserve
Primal Urge Outdoors
Primos Hunting Calls
Proc’s Huntin Buddy
PSE Archery
Radical Hunter
Ranew’s Outdoor Equipment
Red Star Arms
Reflections Of The Wild
Revolution Hunting
Rhino Outdoors
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Rougeaux Taxidermy
Ruger Firearms
S & W Outfitter
Savco LLC
SecureIt Tactical
Shootingthex.com
SK Knives
Skull Shine
Smith and Wesson
Southern Game Calls
Spook Span
SportEAR
Sportsmen of North America TV
Starkey Hollow Whitetails
State Line Bone Mine
Staudt’s Gun Shop
Stay Ready Inc
Stokerized Stabilizers
Strother Archery
Summit County Outfitters
Summit Treestands
Susquehanna River Waterfowlers Assoc
Table Mountain Outfitters
Team Overkill
Team Urban Nocks
Ten Point Crossbows
The Bear Whisperer
The Outdoor Loop
The Sportsman’s Shop
The Warmbag
ThermaCell
Thompson Center Arms
Timberline Outfitters
TNT Archery
Tough Country
Trijicon, Inc
Triple Mag TV
Trop Gun Shop
Turnbull Manufacturing
U Slide Bow Hunter
Ultimate Camo
Umax Outdoors
Upper Canyon Outfitters
Wallaston Lake Lodge
Tex Mex Outdoors
The Warmbag
Watson Air Lock
Watt’s Truck Center
Whitetail Adrenanline
Whitetail Bosses
Whitetail Freaks
Whitetail Heaven Outdoors
Whitewolfsurvivalsupply.com
Wired Outdoors
Woodcock Limited of Pennsylvania
X-Stand Treestands
Zink Calls
Zook Cabins
Speaker / Celebrites Pulled Out (32)
Abner Druckenmiller – Furtakers TV
Angie & Scott Denny – THE LIFE at Table Mountain
Blaine Anthony, The Bear Whisperer
Bob Folkrod
Bob Mercier
Brad Farris – Primos
Chris Brackett
Eddie Salter
Fred Eichler – Fulldraw Outfitters
Greg Zipadelli
Hal Shaffer
Jamie Gray
Jay Gregory
J Paul Jackson – Drakes Migration nation
Jim and Eva Shockey
Jimmy Primos – Primos
Kevin Knighton
Kyle Wieter
Larry Weishuhn
Lee & Tiffany Lakosky “The Crush“
Marc Anthony – Speaker / Pro Hunter
Matt Morett
Michael Lee
Michael Waddell
Mike Stroff – Savage Outdoors TV
Nicole Jones
Pat Reeves
Ralph & Vicki Cianciarulo – Archers Choice
Stan Potts
Bone Collector
Tom Dokken
Trent Cole
Woody Sullivan
Other Boycott Supporters (39)
Advantage Taxidermy Studio Inc
American Tactical Imports
Anything About Guns
Backwoods Life
Bloodline With Alex Ruthledge
Bowfreakz.com
Bowhunting.com
Bowhunter Planet
Bowhunting Addiction TV
Broken Arrow Wilderness
Bowhunters TV
Chasing Trophy Whitetails
Citizens for a Responsibly Armed Society
Crossbow Nation
Dave’s House of Hair, Harrisburg PA
Dead Dog Walkin’ TV
Driven TV
Drop Zone TV
Eddie Salter
Family Traditions TV
Gene & Barry Wensel
Haley Heath
Hank Parker
Horton Crossbows
Hunt Wicked Close TV
Idaho Center of Emergency Medical Training
Mark & Beau Rodgers – Real Deal Outdoors
Mosquito Creek Outdoors, FL
NebraskaOutfitter.com
Needleman & Pisano
Off Grid Survival
OrgaPro Ltd.
Roger Raglin
Shelly & Tara Seiler – Working for Whitetails TV
Stanley Scruggs Hunting Products
The Banded Nation TV
The Best Of The West TV
The Fowl Life TV
The Kronik Hunter and staff
The Pennsylvania Crossbow Federation
The Resistence TV
Wyvern Creations
1
Post by: kat on January 23, 2013, 09:49:00 AM
Post by: Pat B. on January 23, 2013, 09:51:00 AM
Without the 2nd ammendment in place our whole system crumbles.
Post by: David Spear on January 23, 2013, 09:54:00 AM
Post by: yaderehey on January 23, 2013, 09:57:00 AM
Post by: T-Bowhunter on January 23, 2013, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 10:04:00 AM
MOLON LABE
Post by: sheephunter on January 23, 2013, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: Tom on January 23, 2013, 10:10:00 AM
Just look at Scotland/England where bow and arrows are considered "poachers" weapons. I went there in 2005 and stupidly inquired about bowhunting from locals who looked at me like a 3 eyed freak.I applaud those who stand up for their ideals.
Post by: tippit on January 23, 2013, 10:14:00 AM
Post by: Quickblood on January 23, 2013, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: NOVAnewbie on January 23, 2013, 10:16:00 AM
Let's not do it here.
Post by: bornagainbowhunter on January 23, 2013, 10:19:00 AM
God Bless,
Nathan
Post by: Tim Fishell on January 23, 2013, 10:24:00 AM
Post by: ronp on January 23, 2013, 10:26:00 AM
Post by: Tall Paul on January 23, 2013, 10:37:00 AM
Post by: on January 23, 2013, 10:39:00 AM
Post by: Marc B. on January 23, 2013, 10:45:00 AM
Post by: pdk25 on January 23, 2013, 10:47:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NOVAnewbie:Technically you are right, but the moderators make exceptions to their rules in certain instances. If you report it to them, they can make a decision as to whether to move it to the politics forum or completely remove it. In the meantime, thanks to Gene and Barry.
One reason I have enjoyed Trad gang so much is the absence of politics. I'd like to see things stay that way. There are plenty of forums to discuss the 2nd amendment and gun control.
Let's not do it here.
Post by: NittanyRider on January 23, 2013, 10:48:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by huntryx:Me too.
Agree this is a political, and a gun thread which does not belong here.
Post by: oldskool on January 23, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 10:56:00 AM
Post by: on January 23, 2013, 10:56:00 AM
Post by: Tdog on January 23, 2013, 11:00:00 AM
Post by: Boomerang on January 23, 2013, 11:05:00 AM
Post by: lt-m-grow on January 23, 2013, 11:05:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NittanyRider:Agree!
QuoteOriginally posted by huntryx:Me too. [/b]
Agree this is a political, and a gun thread which does not belong here.
And you might want to count how many of these rules this thread breaks, since WE need to stand up and be counted...
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=125042
Post by: wapitirod on January 23, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
We've been talking about this for quite some time on the Handgun Hunting site I'm on and something that should be mentioned is that this company putting on the show is a british outfit.
I know there are elites here that snub those that use weapons other than what they like for hunting but if we don't put those petty differences aside an attack on the 2nd amendment is a lot closer to an attack on hunting. This means a successful attach on the second is a successfull attack on hunting. I have many people I deal with through my custom revolver business that live in NY and they figured since it was just "black" guns being talked about they were good. What they have found is their little Ruger 10/22 squirrel guns are now illegal and those that carry concealed have found 95% of handguns are illegal since they carry more than 7rds.
I strongly suggest if you want to keep using your bows for hunting you quit whining about a political post and figure out how to add, because gun control adds up to hunting control in the end. In case your not aware PETA is already petitioning obama to go a step further on this matter and go directly after hunting as a means to further both their agendas.
Post by: inthere10x on January 23, 2013, 11:07:00 AM
Post by: joekeith on January 23, 2013, 11:09:00 AM
to those who wish to ignore and hide from the facts.... :nono: ..wake up. Our rights are everything, we all have to protect them. If you aren't willing to stand up for our rights just give your guns and bows to those willing to take up the fight to keep our rights. Wake up....
Post by: IndianaBowman on January 23, 2013, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: longbowben on January 23, 2013, 11:11:00 AM
Post by: BDann on January 23, 2013, 11:16:00 AM
The people who are going for our guns are the same people who want to do away with hunting. Tradgang is a fantastic site, and I'm pretty confident that the moderators understand the gravity of this issue and how it relates to traditional bowhunting. It's going to be awfully difficult to have a tradional bowhunting forum if there is no hunting. Maybe we can all talk about the good 'ol days.
Not me. It's time to be political. It's time to be offensive.
Post by: two4hooking on January 23, 2013, 11:19:00 AM
Post by: centaur on January 23, 2013, 11:27:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BDann:I couldn't agree more. I'm offended by offended people. Stand up for your rights!!!!
This issue isn't going away anytime soon, and we must stick together. After all, the 2nd Amendment isn't just about guns. They will not hesitate to go after crossbows, compounds, traditional bows, any kind of weapon.
The people who are going for our guns are the same people who want to do away with hunting. Tradgang is a fantastic site, and I'm pretty confident that the moderators understand the gravity of this issue and how it relates to traditional bowhunting. It's going to be awfully difficult to have a tradional bowhunting forum if there is no hunting. Maybe we can all talk about the good 'ol days.
Not me. It's time to be political. It's time to be offensive.
Post by: BDann on January 23, 2013, 11:39:00 AM
Wake up.
Post by: 23feetupandhappy on January 23, 2013, 11:41:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by IndianaBowman::thumbsup:
Thank you to Gene and Barry and also to Terry for allowing such an important post!
Post by: Jedimaster on January 23, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BDann:My sentiments as well. Thank you Gene & Barry for representing us well ... for representing common sense well and for showing leadership in a time where it is sorely needed!
Not me. It's time to be political. It's time to be offensive.
Thanks to Tradgang admin. for supporting the U.S. Constitution!
Post by: on January 23, 2013, 11:55:00 AM
Post by: ronp on January 23, 2013, 11:57:00 AM
X2!
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 23, 2013, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: Nathan Killen on January 23, 2013, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on January 23, 2013, 12:03:00 PM
In all seriousness though, we hunters have enough trouble defending our right to hunt. Taking weapons away from us removes our ability to hunt AND to defend ourselves.
If Terry doesn't like this thread then by all means he can remove it and I will not shed a tear.
Thank you Wensel brothers for standing up for us.
Post by: coaster500 on January 23, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Thank you all
Got this list from Facebook of all those pulling out.
Terry Green for allowing this to be here...
Gene and Barry Wensel
2 Million Bullets
24/7 Hunting TV
Absaroke-Beartooth Outfitters
Alaska’s Ravencroft Lodge
Alaskan Outdoors TV
Ambush Firearms
American Whitetails of PA
Antler Insanity
Apex Tactical
Appalachian Big Game TV
Arrowhead Outdoors
Artistic Visions Wildlife Studio
Athens Archery
Atlantic Tactical
Avian X Decoys
Banded Calls
Bangin Redhedz Turkey Gear
Bear Archery
Big Game Butter
Blitz TV
Body Guard 360
Bohning Archery
Boulder Basin Outfitters
Boondock Outdoors
Bow Hunter’s Den
Bow Life, LLC
Buck Bomb
Burt Coyote Lumenok
C&D Outfitters
Cabela’s
Camo Addiction
Campbell Cameras
CanCooker
Chaparral Hunting Adventures
Cochrane River Outfitters
Cody Turkey Calls
Cold Steel Knives
Combative Edge
Continental Divide Outfitters
Cross Canyon Arms
Cutting Edge Bullets
Darkwoods Blind
DCVR
Dead Ringer
Deer and Deer Hunting.com
Direct Action Tactical Firearms
Dirty Dog Outdoors
Domari Nolo Defense Consulting
Dominance is Everything Hunting System
Dominator 365
Dokken Oakridge Kennels
Down N Dirty Outdoors
Drakes Migration Nation
Driven TV
Droptine Outfitters
DuckWater Boats
Eastern Chapter Wild Sheep Foundation
Eastern Outdoors
Easton Bow Hunting
Excalibur Crossbow US, Inc
Farmland Trophies Outfitting
Fear No Evil
Field Proven Calls
Firearms Industry Consulting Group
Firenock
Fish Outdoor Properties
Flatline Productions
Foiles Migrators, Inc
Forbes Turkey Calls
FOXPRO High Performance Game Calls
Full Circle Outdoors
Furtakers TV
Ghost River Outfitters – Alberta
Goey Hunting Calls
Gone Wild Outdoors
Goodling Rifles
Grand-Safari.com – South Africa/Tanzania/Cameroon
Gut N Tag, LLC
H.S. Specialities
Heartland Whitetails
Herd Guard
Hevi-Shot
High Lonesome Outfitters
HookHunt
Hoyt Archery Inc
Honey Creek Outfitters
Hunter Safety Systems
Hunter Specialties w/ Rick White
Hunters and Guides Connection
Hunters Comfort, LLC
Hunter’s Specialties
Huntin’ Is Good! TV
IceHole Coolers
International Bowhunting Organization
Iron Kin Hunt Club
IScope
J & M Traditions
Keystone Country Store
Keystone Elk Country Alliance
King of the Mountain Inc.
Kinsey’s Outdoors
Kodabow
Lancaster Archery Supply
Lanco Tactical
Leupold & Stevens Inc.
Lone Oak Retreivers
Major League Bowhunter
Masterpiece Outdoors, Inc.
Men in Treestands Productions
Midwest Whitetail Adventures
Mindful of Nature LLC
Montana Mountain West Outfitters
Mountain Dog Chews
Muddy Outdoors
Muskie Moose, LLC
NasHunt Outdoors
National Wild Turkey Federation
Nature Blinds, LLC
NasHunt Outdoors
National Rifle Association
Northern Hideaway Outfitters
Northern Outdoor Lodge
Northern Wilderness Outfitters
North Mountain Pepper Works
Ol’Man Treestands
Old Goat Outdoors
Open Season TV
Outdoor Channel Outfitters
Outdoor Edge Knives
Outdoor Specialist Group
Outdoorsnative.com
Ozonics Hunting
PA Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs
PA Taxidermist Association, Inc
Pat Strawser Custom Calls
Pennsylvania Trappers Assoc.
Perry’s No Peep Archery Sights
Pipeline Ridge Hunting Preserve
Primal Urge Outdoors
Primos Hunting Calls
Proc’s Huntin Buddy
PSE Archery
Radical Hunter
Ranew’s Outdoor Equipment
Red Star Arms
Reflections Of The Wild
Revolution Hunting
Rhino Outdoors
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Rougeaux Taxidermy
Ruger Firearms
S & W Outfitter
Savco LLC
SecureIt Tactical
Shootingthex.com
SK Knives
Skull Shine
Smith and Wesson
Southern Game Calls
Spook Span
SportEAR
Sportsmen of North America TV
Starkey Hollow Whitetails
State Line Bone Mine
Staudt’s Gun Shop
Stay Ready Inc
Stokerized Stabilizers
Strother Archery
Summit County Outfitters
Summit Treestands
Susquehanna River Waterfowlers Assoc
Table Mountain Outfitters
Team Overkill
Team Urban Nocks
Ten Point Crossbows
The Bear Whisperer
The Outdoor Loop
The Sportsman’s Shop
The Warmbag
ThermaCell
Thompson Center Arms
Timberline Outfitters
TNT Archery
Tough Country
Trijicon, Inc
Triple Mag TV
Trop Gun Shop
Turnbull Manufacturing
U Slide Bow Hunter
Ultimate Camo
Umax Outdoors
Upper Canyon Outfitters
Wallaston Lake Lodge
Tex Mex Outdoors
The Warmbag
Watson Air Lock
Watt’s Truck Center
Whitetail Adrenanline
Whitetail Bosses
Whitetail Freaks
Whitetail Heaven Outdoors
Whitewolfsurvivalsupply.com
Wired Outdoors
Woodcock Limited of Pennsylvania
X-Stand Treestands
Zink Calls
Zook Cabins
Speaker / Celebrites Pulled Out (32)
Abner Druckenmiller – Furtakers TV
Angie & Scott Denny – THE LIFE at Table Mountain
Blaine Anthony, The Bear Whisperer
Bob Folkrod
Bob Mercier
Brad Farris – Primos
Chris Brackett
Eddie Salter
Fred Eichler – Fulldraw Outfitters
Greg Zipadelli
Hal Shaffer
Jamie Gray
Jay Gregory
J Paul Jackson – Drakes Migration nation
Jim and Eva Shockey
Jimmy Primos – Primos
Kevin Knighton
Kyle Wieter
Larry Weishuhn
Lee & Tiffany Lakosky “The Crush“
Marc Anthony – Speaker / Pro Hunter
Matt Morett
Michael Lee
Michael Waddell
Mike Stroff – Savage Outdoors TV
Nicole Jones
Pat Reeves
Ralph & Vicki Cianciarulo – Archers Choice
Stan Potts
Bone Collector
Tom Dokken
Trent Cole
Woody Sullivan
Other Boycott Supporters (39)
Advantage Taxidermy Studio Inc
American Tactical Imports
Anything About Guns
Backwoods Life
Bloodline With Alex Ruthledge
Bowfreakz.com
Bowhunting.com
Bowhunter Planet
Bowhunting Addiction TV
Broken Arrow Wilderness
Bowhunters TV
Chasing Trophy Whitetails
Citizens for a Responsibly Armed Society
Crossbow Nation
Dave’s House of Hair, Harrisburg PA
Dead Dog Walkin’ TV
Driven TV
Drop Zone TV
Eddie Salter
Family Traditions TV
Gene & Barry Wensel
Haley Heath
Hank Parker
Horton Crossbows
Hunt Wicked Close TV
Idaho Center of Emergency Medical Training
Mark & Beau Rodgers – Real Deal Outdoors
Mosquito Creek Outdoors, FL
NebraskaOutfitter.com
Needleman & Pisano
Off Grid Survival
OrgaPro Ltd.
Roger Raglin
Shelly & Tara Seiler – Working for Whitetails TV
Stanley Scruggs Hunting Products
The Banded Nation TV
The Best Of The West TV
The Fowl Life TV
The Kronik Hunter and staff
The Pennsylvania Crossbow Federation
The Resistence TV
Wyvern Creations
What's next???
Post by: Beanbag on January 23, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: Dale Hajas on January 23, 2013, 12:11:00 PM
Could be a gun, a shovel, a bat or a longbow.
Post by: happy1 on January 23, 2013, 12:18:00 PM
Originally posted by IndianaBowman:
Thank you to Gene and Barry and also to Terry for allowing such an important post!
X2 :thumbsup:
Post by: Burnsie on January 23, 2013, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: Lechwe on January 23, 2013, 12:25:00 PM
Thanks to everyone supporting this.
Post by: BuckeyeGuy on January 23, 2013, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: Gen273 on January 23, 2013, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: on January 23, 2013, 12:34:00 PM
Around here this anti gun propaganda has motivated the anti hunting people to once again press their opinions, this does affect traditional bowhunting especially. No one is easier to push around than the little guy, right now it is legal for me to shoot my bow in my back yard. If these women push the right political buttons, I will lose that.
Post by: elknutz on January 23, 2013, 01:35:00 PM
Post by: Jim Brennen on January 23, 2013, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: xtrema312 on January 23, 2013, 01:49:00 PM
I respect and appreciate that this site stays focused on trad bow hunting and keeps the fuss you can have over other things politics out. But this is not about guns or politics. This is about freedom, rights, and what this country is founded on, and those things are very trad!
Post by: TRB on January 23, 2013, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: Paul/KS on January 23, 2013, 01:57:00 PM
Post by: on January 23, 2013, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: northener on January 23, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
Thank you moderators for allowing this thread to continue.
I am proud to be a part of supporting our second ammendment rights. all sportsman need to unite in this cause!
Post by: Greg Skinner on January 23, 2013, 02:08:00 PM
I respect and appreciate that this site stays focused on trad bow hunting and keeps the fuss you can have over other things politics out. But this is not about guns or politics. This is about freedom, rights, and what this country is founded on, and those things are very trad!"
I could not agree more! I am afraid the time has come for us to draw a line in the sand and it is refreshing and encouraging to me that people like Gene and Barry have chosen to do so.
Post by: jonsimoneau on January 23, 2013, 02:10:00 PM
Post by: Tsalt on January 23, 2013, 02:21:00 PM
Post by: pdk25 on January 23, 2013, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 23, 2013, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: pauljr on January 23, 2013, 03:02:00 PM
Post by: Spitfire Htr on January 23, 2013, 03:03:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by xtrema312:100% Agree
Thanks to everyone who took a stand and those who allowed this post!
I respect and appreciate that this site stays focused on trad bow hunting and keeps the fuss you can have over other things politics out. But this is not about guns or politics. This is about freedom, rights, and what this country is founded on, and those things are very trad!
Post by: backyardbowhunter on January 23, 2013, 03:12:00 PM
Post by: Tall Paul on January 23, 2013, 03:13:00 PM
Post by: wooddamon1 on January 23, 2013, 03:14:00 PM
Post by: Marc B. on January 23, 2013, 03:15:00 PM
Thanks for allowing this thread to stay open.
Post by: RLA on January 23, 2013, 03:16:00 PM
My children deserve the same freedoms I have enjoyed, Hunt, Fish, Shoot, guns & bows if they so choose.
.
Post by: DannyBows on January 23, 2013, 03:47:00 PM
If you think they will stop with disarming us of firearms you're kidding yourself.
This issue has everything to do with bowhunting. We may not be at the top of the hit-list now, but we are on that list. Stopping them now ensures your children and grandchildren the right to defend themselves and hunt how they want.
Thanks to all who are standing up to the tyranny, my business will be done with them in future also. :clapper:
Post by: 1/4 away on January 23, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 23, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/1358937520j4apvy4zuph
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 04:46:00 PM
Post by: CDR on January 23, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Post by: Iron Man2 on January 23, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
Others have commented and and said it best, but, the reality is that firearms or bow & arrows do have a connection even if one chooses one or the other, both or one over the other. I like many have chosen this new found excitement of stick and string, but I do not forget that as a small child hunting with firearms has been my beginnings and also excited in all that is the outdoors.
JL :archer2:
Post by: ishoot4thrills on January 23, 2013, 04:50:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by northener::readit:
This is a matter very near and dear to my heart.
Thank you moderators for allowing this thread to continue.
I am proud to be a part of supporting our second ammendment rights. all sportsman need to unite in this cause!
Post by: tackhammer on January 23, 2013, 04:56:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on January 23, 2013, 05:07:00 PM
Kudos to those who are backing this worthy cause.
Post by: ISP 5353 on January 23, 2013, 05:12:00 PM
Post by: Kingsnake on January 23, 2013, 05:34:00 PM
:knothead:
I will ALSO be opening my wallet to support some of the vendors who have decided to boycott the show. Not sure what I'll buy yet, but since I'm saving all that gas money, it may be even more than if I went to the show!
Kingsnake :goldtooth:
Post by: Mudd on January 23, 2013, 05:35:00 PM
Post by: Tracks on January 23, 2013, 05:43:00 PM
"The Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show is a unique celebration of the authentic hunting and fishing traditions that are cherished by millions of Americans and their families. We are proud to celebrate these pastimes by featuring 1,200 exhibitors offering a diverse range of products from outfitters to fishing boats and RVs, from archery to art and from clothes to cabins.
As a hunting-focused event, we welcome exhibitors who wish to showcase products and firearms that serve the traditional needs of the sport. Clearly, we strongly support the 2nd Amendment. However, this year we have made the decision not to include certain products that in the current climate may attract negative attention that would distract from the strong focus on hunting and fishing at this family-oriented event and possibly disrupt the broader positive experience of our guests.
ESS is proud to participate in the preservation and promotion of the rich hunting and fishing tradition passed from generation to generation by American families."
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 05:45:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 05:48:00 PM
No ugly looking firearms can be displayed or sold. An action which chips away at the second amendment, impacts varmint hunting retailers and is a slippery slope to travel.
Post by: Kingsnake on January 23, 2013, 05:54:00 PM
Kingsnake
Post by: Stump73 on January 23, 2013, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: Craig on January 23, 2013, 06:05:00 PM
They were promoting there new room of tactical weapons and then 3 weeks before the show they told all the vendors that they could not bring any of those weapons or literature on them, Also no photos of them. It was a bait and switch. Lancaster Archery was the 1st vendor that dropped out. They don't even sell firarms. There are Outfitters as far as Africa that have dropped out in honor of our 2nd amendement and we have Americans who don't care. Going to be interesting
Post by: Tracks on January 23, 2013, 06:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kingsnake:I really hope I am not opening a can of worms here, but I'm just curious what prompted such a vehement response from so many businesses and individuals. Did the organizers say anything about supporting a possible ban on these weapons or did they just feel that it would be insensitive, politically un-savvy, and/or distracting to the main intent of the show (hunting and fishing) to display such weapons within 200 miles of Newtown?
Tracks...that carefully-worded release from the promoters was their way of saying "No AR-15s or high capacity magazines" Not sure of other so-called assault weapons and accessories. No, the topic is not "trad archery," but Barry & Gene Wensel, Fred Eichler, and several other trad shooters (though not all EXCLUSIVELY trad) have decided that this is not a show they will support for their decision.
Kingsnake
Post by: Eric Sprick on January 23, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Will scan the list of vendors who have backed out and either do business with them or send them a note of support...hearing its about 200 vendors, I'm gonna be busy.
Thanks for keeping this thread here.
Eric
Post by: wapitirod on January 23, 2013, 06:34:00 PM
For those of you that are as serious about this as I am there is a pledge going around that I will list the link too. I haven't checked today but when I signed there was almost 30k signatures. Some people are afraid to sign thinking it will put a bullseye on them for the govt. I can tell you from personal experience with the BATFE they know alot more about you than you'd like them too regardless of whether or not you sign a pledge. Again I hope this link is ok with the mods and I thank them for allowing this post.
http://patriotpost.us/alexander/16224
Post by: Kingsnake on January 23, 2013, 06:35:00 PM
I hate pushing a non-trad archery item on this site. It is my last "happy place." Didn't feel like pushing the rock uphill anymore with my friends and relatives on facebook, so I deactivated my account. I will drop the issue before I let that happen here.
I guess this is just one of those things where you either "get it or you don't." Not judging you at all, Tracks. Happy that you are comfortable enough and professional enough to ask in a reasonable manner.
Again . . I speak for no one other than myself on this.
Kingsnake
Post by: Doc Nock on January 23, 2013, 06:43:00 PM
The promoter outfit is a British owned...They lost their rights to own guns so who knows what lies behind all this to ban specific weapons. Anyone who believes that bows would be safe, or hunting, later down the road is quite the optimist.
Google "Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show" and there are many links to varied reports. NRA too. Depending on which list you go to, it's got more than others.
All that remains is for the rest of us to hurt the promoter where they live by staying home!
United we stand, separate we fall apart.
Post by: Bldtrailer on January 23, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE IT WAS PAID FOR WITH THE BLOOD OF HEROS! NEVER GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS! TOO MANY BRAVE MEN & WOMEN HAVE DIED TO EARN THEM, PROTECT AND DEFEND THEM!!!
Post by: foxbo on January 23, 2013, 07:03:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 07:04:00 PM
This is not a new event. This event is HUGE. Vendors have been planning to attend this for years and they compete for prime spots. Reservations are made far in advance. The promoter has changed the rules midstream in an effort to pander to political correctness.
Of course economic principles are also in place. One of the fastest growing segments of hunting has been varmint and predator hunting with so called "assault" rifles. A lot has been invested in that market. There is an interrelationship between these guns, various accessories, sponsors and consumers that very quickly spans a large network of vendors that stand to take a hit from actions that affront the guns themselves.
This economic relationship very closely mirrors the political relationship among and between various factions of the shooting sports. An attack on one is an attack on all. When the AR15 is offered up as the sacrificial lamb it simply places one more gun next in line to be slaughtered. As citizens, and not subjects, this should be important to us.
When the participating vendors urged Reed's promotional group to reconsider their ill advised and poorly timed decision they refused to do so. At that point the show no longer represented what it purported to represent.
Post by: smokin joe on January 23, 2013, 07:06:00 PM
Post by: collofthewild on January 23, 2013, 07:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by centaur:X2!
QuoteOriginally posted by BDann:I couldn't agree more. I'm offended by offended people. Stand up for your rights!!!! [/b]
This issue isn't going away anytime soon, and we must stick together. After all, the 2nd Amendment isn't just about guns. They will not hesitate to go after crossbows, compounds, traditional bows, any kind of weapon.
The people who are going for our guns are the same people who want to do away with hunting. Tradgang is a fantastic site, and I'm pretty confident that the moderators understand the gravity of this issue and how it relates to traditional bowhunting. It's going to be awfully difficult to have a tradional bowhunting forum if there is no hunting. Maybe we can all talk about the good 'ol days.
Not me. It's time to be political. It's time to be offensive.
Post by: Bill Kissner on January 23, 2013, 07:14:00 PM
Post by: rooster77 on January 23, 2013, 07:39:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 23, 2013, 07:42:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bldtrailer:Amen Bldtrailer! My uncle was killed in 67' LRRP with the 7th CAV "AIR CAV" and I served on a fast attack sub during the cold war.
How long will we have ANY of our freedoms if WE don't uphold and support the "2nd" The right to Bare Arms( bows are arms to). This is the only admendment that insures that all the others will be there for us all. If the 2nd falls how long will it be until the first admendment goes and then the rest. The first step in a dictatorship is always disarming the people. WE ARE THE PEOPLE & need to take a stand as Berry and Gene did! (how long will it be before the EPA bans the import of the woods our bows are made of ,just ask Gibson Guitars) I carried an M60 machine gun and an M16 (6yrs 95 bravo MP Army)and swore to uphold the Constitution of the USA and defend it from ALL enemies foreign and domestic( My father KIA Nam. 1968 fighting for & defending the above USA Air force Raven ) I'll be dammed if I do less!
FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE IT WAS PAID FOR WITH THE BLOOD OF HEROS! NEVER GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS! TOO MANY BRAVE MEN & WOMEN HAVE DIED TO EARN THEM, PROTECT AND DEFEND THEM!!!
Post by: 4runr on January 23, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
Post by: Sean B on January 23, 2013, 07:46:00 PM
Post by: Adirondack Bowman on January 23, 2013, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: Ybuck on January 23, 2013, 08:01:00 PM
And a "thank you" from myself.
Post by: BOWMARKS on January 23, 2013, 08:03:00 PM
Post by: stalkin4elk on January 23, 2013, 08:04:00 PM
Realize this admin. gets probably two more Supreme Court Justices on top of the last two anti gun Justices...BIG DEAL FOLKS as the nominees will most certainly be antigun.
Also many anti 2nd A. folks are anti hunting as well. The sportsmen better wake up.
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 23, 2013, 08:06:00 PM
Our forefathers would be disgusted with the way they manipulate our rights. they created them to keep this from happening.
I salute every one who has taken a stand for their rights. SEMPER FI
Post by: Rick Butler on January 23, 2013, 08:10:00 PM
This is a sad, sad world we live in when a tormented individual can viscously take the lives of so many innocents with a firearm, and the government's response is to trample on the 2nd Amendment and the rights of law abiding citizens.
Post by: dnovo on January 23, 2013, 08:29:00 PM
Post by: TaterHill Archer on January 23, 2013, 08:38:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gregg dudley::clapper:
It is not as simple as taking Black Rifles off the shelf for this event. Principles of democracy and freedom are at stake. The second amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. Period. These vendors support that right. The fact that a large number of companies boycotting this event are archery related should make that pretty clear.
This is not a new event. This event is HUGE. Vendors have been planning to attend this for years and they compete for prime spots. Reservations are made far in advance. The promoter has changed the rules midstream in an effort to pander to political correctness.
Of course economic principles are also in place. One of the fastest growing segments of hunting has been varmint and predator hunting with so called "assault" rifles. A lot has been invested in that market. There is an interrelationship between these guns, various accessories, sponsors and consumers that very quickly spans a large network of vendors that stand to take a hit from actions that affront the guns themselves.
This economic relationship very closely mirrors the political relationship among and between various factions of the shooting sports. An attack on one is an attack on all. When the AR15 is offered up as the sacrificial lamb it simply places one more gun next in line to be slaughtered. As citizens, and not subjects, this should be important to us.
When the participating vendors urged Reed's promotional group to reconsider their ill advised and poorly timed decision they refused to do so. At that point the show no longer represented what it purported to represent.
Post by: NOVAnewbie on January 23, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Adirondack Bowman:Is this thread simply about praising those who are standing by their convictions, or is it now an open "debate" about the second amendment and/or gun control, or partisan politics in general?
It's sad to realize there are alot of TradGangers who voted for this kind of B.S. . Elections have consequences.
Like many slippery slopes, where does this thread lead for Trad Gang?
Will every 2nd amendment issue spring up in the open forum from now? I guarantee that this issue will not go away for a long, long time. When the next convention bans AR-15s or the next state's proposed Assault weapons ban, or any federal attempts at gun legislation, will there be topics about them too? At what point will Trad Gang become more about AR-15s then longbows and recurves?
I'm not against the sentiment behind the thread, however I come to Trad Gang to read about traditional archery and bowhunting, not diatribes against the current administration or politics in general.
Post by: bwana on January 23, 2013, 08:56:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 23, 2013, 09:28:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NOVAnewbie:You are right on some level, of course. Where will tradgang draw the line in allowing this discourse? What is the proper measure of attention to this issue? The spectrum runs from ignoring it to completely engaging in it; standing alone as a traditional bowhunting island or embracing the bigger tent. OR something somewhere in between.
QuoteOriginally posted by Adirondack Bowman:Is this thread simply about praising those who are standing by their convictions, or is it now an open "debate" about the second amendment and/or gun control, or partisan politics in general?
It's sad to realize there are alot of TradGangers who voted for this kind of B.S. . Elections have consequences.
Like many slippery slopes, where does this thread lead for Trad Gang?
Will every 2nd amendment issue spring up in the open forum from now? I guarantee that this issue will not go away for a long, long time. When the next convention bans AR-15s or the next state's proposed Assault weapons ban, or any federal attempts at gun legislation, will there be topics about them too? At what point will Trad Gang become more about AR-15s then longbows and recurves?
I'm not against the sentiment behind the thread, however I come to Trad Gang to read about traditional archery and bowhunting, not diatribes against the current administration or politics in general. [/b]
I don't know what the ultimate decision will be, but I am glad that we have been afforded this one opportunity to discuss the issue with like minded individuals. I appreciate the willingness of Terry and Rob to allow us to vent on the single biggest issue facing us as citizens and sportsmen. It is pretty clear that this thread is about two things. One supporting the hunting industry which includes significant numbers of tradgang members. Two discussing how current political winds may adversely impact the fundamental rights that we hold as citizens and the passion we pursue as sportsmen.
Post by: longbowray on January 23, 2013, 09:45:00 PM
Post by: caleb7mm on January 23, 2013, 09:50:00 PM
Post by: kennym on January 23, 2013, 09:55:00 PM
Removing AR's is only the first step, other freedoms will follow.
Forks make me fat? Better have fork control maybe?
Post by: stagetek on January 23, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
Post by: Mike Theis on January 23, 2013, 10:26:00 PM
Interesting. At what point does the promoter cave in? If the gate goes down as much, or most probably, more; they should loose a fair amount of money. This will hurt this show for years to come.
Post by: WESTBROOK on January 23, 2013, 10:36:00 PM
Terry & Rob, big thanks for lettin' this thread roll on!
NOVAnewbie & stagetek...If you think think this has nothing to do with us 'cause we're bowhunters, you'd better wake up and open at least one of your eyes!
Eric
Post by: wapitirod on January 23, 2013, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: bawana bowman on January 23, 2013, 10:46:00 PM
This was Obamas plan from the beginning and he intended to push it hard if given a second term. Now he has nothing to fear from trying to force it on the country.
It's gonna be a long fight for the next 4 years, and we have to be unrelenting in our efforts.
This boycott is a start, but it will take the effort of everyone not just the vendors.
We made the choice to go to Denver and Salt Lake City this year instead of Harrisburg for the very reason of this boycott.
Thanks to all who also choose to stand for the constitution!!!!!!
Post by: Stumpkiller on January 23, 2013, 11:27:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tracks:I applaud Gene and Barry (just watched Bowhunting October Whitetails I & II this past weekend for the umpteenth time . . . well, Barry anyhow. Gene was still recovering from the failed Grizzly Artificial Insemination Team fiasco when that was filmed) and the other vendors and celebrities that are sticking together, but I too am confused how this is a cause for celebration. The anti-hunters & anti-gun folks got just what they wanted - the show shut down. We have one less place to go for seeing 98% of what we were interested in.
Forgive my ignorance, but what did the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show do to prompt so many people pulling out?
If the choice is all or nothing and we're cheering nothing I don't see a war plan with a favorable outcome here.
So, I guess no one will attend NY shows because our crackpot Governor and legislators failed to obey the Constitution and Bill of Rights they swore to defend and obey and instead twisted it to their political aims? How does that help the folks stuck where the climate is sour who want help encouraging hunting and shooting?
The anti's are saying "look, they're pulling out and running! We've won!" :dunno:
Post by: Iron Man2 on January 23, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
JL
Post by: Stumpkiller on January 23, 2013, 11:43:00 PM
Post by: on January 23, 2013, 11:53:00 PM
Post by: Austin Brown on January 23, 2013, 11:54:00 PM
Post by: Stumpkiller on January 23, 2013, 11:57:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 24, 2013, 12:00:00 AM
Post by: High Desert Hunter on January 24, 2013, 12:47:00 AM
Post by: Al Kidner on January 24, 2013, 01:18:00 AM
You will be sorry.
Just ask any aussie, Brit and even a kiwi. Our guns laws are outstandingly stupid!
Molon Labe.
ak.
Post by: wapitirod on January 24, 2013, 01:34:00 AM
Post by: coaster500 on January 24, 2013, 02:33:00 AM
Bow hunting by the way is still prohibited in Russia.......
Post by: Walter Mauney on January 24, 2013, 05:54:00 AM
Remember, the 2nd amendment is the one that ultimately protects all the rest of the amendments.
Post by: Jack Whitmire Jr on January 24, 2013, 06:01:00 AM
Thanks to all for the boycott .
Stunp your thinking is what is wrong with the USA . We tolerate toooo much in this country .
Post by: Boomerang on January 24, 2013, 06:27:00 AM
Post by: sj_lutz on January 24, 2013, 07:09:00 AM
Post by: xtrema312 on January 24, 2013, 07:12:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Boomerang:x2
Unless America gets back to God, it will fall. History has proven that over and over.
Post by: gringol on January 24, 2013, 07:58:00 AM
There are ways to address keeping guns out of criminals' hands without creating new laws, but we (gun-owning citizens) don't seem to be paying any attention to those because we are hung up on the fact that the democrats are in control of Washington. ATF hasn't had a director in 6 years. That can't be good for enforcement of existing gun-laws. ATF is not allowed to ask gun-dealers to keep inventory of their guns to prove that none are being sold under the table. Over half of all states don't give the FBI their criminal databases so the dreaded background check at the gun-dealer isn't all that meaningful.
I think it would help us a lot if we avoided the "boogey-man is coming for our guns" rhetoric and focused on constructive ideas. At the end of the day we are in a political battle, and screaming about revolution and a tyranical government is not going to win us any political points. We need to show the non-gun owners in this country that we are responsible, reasonable people not paranoid lunatics in order to get their support.
CALL YOUR SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN!
Post by: LONGSTYKES on January 24, 2013, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: Bowwild on January 24, 2013, 08:30:00 AM
However, I'm not motivated to do so for the sake of the radical liberal. They wouldn't know responsible and rational if they were staring in a mirror ... especially if looking in the mirror, or their best bud's mirror.
Both parties are in cahoots. It was evident yesterday that the GOP has conceded 2016 to Ms. Clinton. She's had a few decades of training to be a politician by her morally bankrupt hubby. I can't believe the politicians let Clinton by with asking, 'What does it matter how...there are simply 4 people dead.'
I don't trust or respect her, never have, but she will kick the tar out of any GOP person who takes her on and that spells GREAT for the deadbeats and not so good for us who carry them.
There is NOTHING complimentary these days about being called a politician.
Those who pay attention to what's going on in this country from the day after an election to the day before the next election are in the minority now.
Post by: gringol on January 24, 2013, 08:46:00 AM
I don't think we need to convince radicals of anything. We need to convince moderate citizens (who are still the majority).
Post by: gregg dudley on January 24, 2013, 08:52:00 AM
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 24, 2013, 09:05:00 AM
Post by: gringol on January 24, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lpcjon2:With all due respect, the GOP can't run terrible candidates and then complain that no one voted for them...Politics is a popularity contest and the GOP should know that.
Luke, the problem is the"moderate citizen" voted for image reasons not for the long term well being of the country.JMO
Post by: longbowben on January 24, 2013, 10:01:00 AM
Post by: Junglecat on January 24, 2013, 10:06:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gringol:In 2010 nearly 80,000 people failed background checks.Of those nearly 80,000 only 44 people were prosecuted.It does not appear the federal government is serious in prosecuting those people.Falsifying information on the form to purchase a firearm is a felony punishable by several years in prison.Also our VP was recently quoted as saying they do not have the time to prosecute those people.Instead they want to pass more stupid laws taking away law-abiding citizens rights instead of enforcing the laws already on the books.
Discussions about stricter gun-control laws in this country have happened before. Hopefully we can all calm down and think about this reasonably. Both the pro and the anti folks have gotten a little nuts lately. I saw a few NRA reps and gun dealers giving interviews on the news the other day and was absolutely embarrassed by their attitudes and rhetoric. One guy said "if this talk doesn't stop right now, I'm going to start killing people." Guys that behave the way these guys were give all sportsmen a bad rap. We should abosultely stand up for what we believe, but let's do it in a respectful, reasonable manner.
There are ways to address keeping guns out of criminals' hands without creating new laws, but we (gun-owning citizens) don't seem to be paying any attention to those because we are hung up on the fact that the democrats are in control of Washington. ATF hasn't had a director in 6 years. That can't be good for enforcement of existing gun-laws. ATF is not allowed to ask gun-dealers to keep inventory of their guns to prove that none are being sold under the table. Over half of all states don't give the FBI their criminal databases so the dreaded background check at the gun-dealer isn't all that meaningful.
I think it would help us a lot if we avoided the "boogey-man is coming for our guns" rhetoric and focused on constructive ideas. At the end of the day we are in a political battle, and screaming about revolution and a tyranical government is not going to win us any political points. We need to show the non-gun owners in this country that we are responsible, reasonable people not paranoid lunatics in order to get their support.
CALL YOUR SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN!
Post by: BDann on January 24, 2013, 10:07:00 AM
I had to look up the Molon Labe phrase.....very appropriate!
Post by: Doc Nock on January 24, 2013, 10:25:00 AM
The division even here is interesting, if not sad.
When a out-of-country marketing enterprise, that represents a nation that outlawed personal gun ownership successfully, and then when American Citizens stand together to say, "I'm sorry, but your inflammatory and discriminatory behavior deserves our refusal", can cause such derision, it is not hard to see how we got this 2nd term.
Sorros is out to spend his fortune to eliminate private gun ownership! Why?
Owner of Progressive Insurance is out to ban all guns! Why?
There is no one lick of evidence anywhere that gun control, more laws, has any effect on lowering violent criminal acts.
Our email boxes are flooded with accounts of all the senseless shooting perpetrators having been on SRI or other anti-depressants. They were all known to have mental health issues long before their heinous crimes were committed, we have emails outlining that our country violent firearm crimes have dropped by 50% in recent years with more liberal gun ownership, and reviews flow of other nations with ZERO gun ownership and their death rate by violence usurps ours manifold.
Rational rhetoric? Really? I've been an NRA Life Member for oh...30 years...and yes, it's come and gone before, but never with the billions in cash of people like NYC Mayor and Sorros and Progressive Insur. poured into the fray!
Is this about black guns? Big mags? I hardly ever shoot any weapon anymore...but I'll be danged if this "it's their right, it's their show" stuff flies with me.
Discrimination is deserving of boycott!
People who are so quick to cry "Its my right" seldom read the whole Bill or the entire commentary... Yes, we all have freedom but only as long as it does NOT infringe on another's freedom.
Those vendors who now legally sell these weapons, that as was stated, have been run thru the hands of millions in our military, found to be very accurate and fun to shoot (I'm told) are great for varied legal enterprises and UNTIL they're made totally ILLEGAL, no outfit that wants to profit from MY MONEY is going to get any of MY MONEY for banning such legal pursuits to be politically "correct" which is only sucking up to making a few more years of fast bucks off the backs of slobs like you and me who can't see the forest for the trees...
Now help an old man down off this soapbox before I fall and break a hip!
Oh, PS: YES! Write every single congressman...weekly...print up form letters if you have to, but let them know...stand up or get out!
Post by: Striker on January 24, 2013, 10:51:00 AM
Thanks for your support.
Post by: Doc Nock on January 24, 2013, 11:03:00 AM
Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show - Update - January 24, 2013
Reed Exhibitions has decided to postpone, for now, the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show given the controversy surrounding its decision to limit the sale or display of modern sporting rifles (also called ARs) at the event. The show was scheduled to take place February 2-10 in Harrisburg, PA.
“Our original decision not to include certain products in the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show this year was made in order to preserve the event’s historical focus on the hunting and fishing traditions enjoyed by American families,” said Chet Burchett, Reed Exhibitions President for the Americas. “In the current climate, we felt that the presence of MSRs would distract from the theme of hunting and fishing, disrupting the broader experience of our guests. This was intended simply as a product decision, of the type event organizers need to make every day.
“It has become very clear to us after speaking with our customers that the event could not be held because the atmosphere of this year’s show would not be conducive to an event that is designed to provide family enjoyment. It is unfortunate that in the current emotionally charged atmosphere this celebratory event has become overshadowed by a decision that directly affected a small percentage of more than 1,000 exhibits showcasing products and services for those interested in hunting and fishing.
“ESS has long been proud to participate in the preservation and promotion of hunting and fishing traditions, and we hope that as the national debate clarifies, we will have an opportunity to consider rescheduling the event when the time is right to focus on the themes it celebrates.”
Post by: SKITCH on January 24, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
Just sayin'...... :)
Post by: IndianaBowman on January 24, 2013, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: Biggamefish on January 24, 2013, 11:11:00 AM
Post by: NOVAnewbie on January 24, 2013, 11:22:00 AM
religion
partisan politics
foreign affairs
mental health
insults
etc.
I understand completely why this forum has kept discussions relevant and germane to traditional archery and bowhunting.
This thread illustrates the rationale behind Trad Gang's policy.
I hope that this thread proves to be only the exception that makes the rule.
Post by: Irish Archer on January 24, 2013, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: Iron Man2 on January 24, 2013, 11:23:00 AM
Below I listed what the real underlying facts why this topic is very serious and should not be taken lightly.
Section 1.
{Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."}
Article II (which outlines the duties of the Executive Branch)
Executive Orders (EO)
{In times of emergency, the president can override congress and issue executive orders with almost limitless power.}
Our president and politicians have taken a position and stance that they can circumnavigate the constitution by using either passing laws, EO(s), without and real opposition or without the support (or vote) from congress, the house or legislators. The scary thought is that they seem to be succeeding, unopposed and building support by the uninformed, misguided, or fear of not being mainstream or popular. The second amendment protects us, "...the right of the people
to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which arrows and bows are a type of "arms" And “Freedom” is meaningless without security, whether it is a firearm, or bow? Therefore, this left/right; Republican/Democrat; liberal/conservative dog and pony show should not leave most Americans willing to sacrifice the other side's rights in order to preserve "our" side's.
My 2 Centavos,
JL :archer2:
Post by: gregg dudley on January 24, 2013, 11:31:00 AM
Somehow choosing to not read a thread seems to rest on the low end of the inconvenience scale when stacked next to sacrificing freedom.
Post by: Terry Green on January 24, 2013, 11:35:00 AM
They are actually blaming those that dropped out !!!!
Making those that dropped out the bad guys !!!!
See, its so obvious....its in their playbook !!!
Post by: JamesKerr on January 24, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: Doc Nock on January 24, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
The debate has degenerated to what one ditty once reviewed about a perspective leading to the holocaust..where the man wasn't of a particular race or religion, so he did nothing when they came for his neighbor, then for another neighbor for their philosophical views, because he didn't share those views, then another was taken away for his political views...and then when they finally came for the HIM, there was nobody left to help HIM!
Hang together or hang separately. Anyone who thinks this is about guns, or Assault weapons, is a very special sort of optimist for sure.
Freedom is NOT free...and those who resent inconvenience over the cost of freedom will not know freedom till it's lost!
Post by: stringstretcher on January 24, 2013, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: coaster500 on January 24, 2013, 11:43:00 AM
They are actually blaming those that dropped out !!!!
Making those that dropped out the bad guys !!!!
See, its so obvious....its in their playbook !!!"
---------------------------------------
Exactly Terry
Post by: Doc Nock on January 24, 2013, 11:44:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:Well put, Terry. I've written to the promoter several times, and again since their cancellation rhetoric. Exactly! Wish I'd read this before I sent mine...I'd have "stolen" some of your verbiage! :)
Dock....this is what I got from their 'cancellation statement'....
They are actually blaming those that dropped out !!!!
Making those that dropped out the bad guys !!!!
See, its so obvious....its in their playbook !!!
Post by: Danny Rowan on January 24, 2013, 11:46:00 AM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 24, 2013, 11:55:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:Yep. That's what I got out of it too. The issue was entirely within their hands.
Dock....this is what I got from their 'cancellation statement'....
They are actually blaming those that dropped out !!!!
Making those that dropped out the bad guys !!!!
See, its so obvious....its in their playbook !!!
Post by: gregg dudley on January 24, 2013, 11:55:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:Yep. That's what I got out of it too. The issue was entirely within their hands.
Dock....this is what I got from their 'cancellation statement'....
They are actually blaming those that dropped out !!!!
Making those that dropped out the bad guys !!!!
See, its so obvious....its in their playbook !!!
Post by: centaur on January 24, 2013, 11:58:00 AM
Post by: Old Chief on January 24, 2013, 12:02:00 PM
Post by: T Mowery on January 24, 2013, 12:13:00 PM
Post by: Scott Smith on January 24, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
For those who don't think this post is relevant, you might consider that our constitutional rights are the key to our freedoms; the assault on the 2nd amendment is a slap in the face to every citizen of the US. Nothing is MORE relevant than our personal freedoms. Thanks to all who took a stand on this issue.
Post by: Quickblood on January 24, 2013, 12:49:00 PM
Post by: Burnsie on January 24, 2013, 01:14:00 PM
“It has become very clear to us after speaking with our customers that the event could not be held because the atmosphere of this year’s show would not be conducive to an event that is designed to provide family enjoyment. It is unfortunate that in the current emotionally charged atmosphere this celebratory event has become overshadowed by a decision that directly affected a small percentage of more than 1,000 exhibits showcasing products and services for those interested in hunting and fishing."
So if their decision only affected a small percentage of the exibitors, then why the need to limit those few exibitors from the show. How is having a very small group of vendors displaying AR type weapons going to detract from the family-friendly environment and the spirit of promoting fishing and hunting...etc amongst another 1000-1200 exibits.
Talk about a lame attempt at spin control.
Post by: Craig on January 24, 2013, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: Caleb the bow breaker on January 24, 2013, 02:27:00 PM
Molon Labe
C
Post by: 23feetupandhappy on January 24, 2013, 03:16:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Craig:Well said!!!!
Sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward. This was one of those times. Everyone who believes in our 2nd have just showed the world that we have the numbers to stand together. We gave up something that we really love just for our 2nd amendment.
Its in UNITY that this assault on our freedoms
will be defeated........
Thanks
Post by: Nook on January 24, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
Post by: Zbone on January 24, 2013, 03:36:00 PM
They're debating on another site if vender refunds, if not, are law sues in the works?
Post by: Roughrider on January 24, 2013, 03:54:00 PM
When the guns are gone and we're only left with our bows, do you think there are people who will view them as "assualt weapons" that need to be restricted? Look around the world!
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 24, 2013, 04:10:00 PM
clearly it hit home to the event producers = $$$$.
"COME AND GET THEM" - Leonidas, 450 B.C.
(http://i.imgur.com/XbDQJvv.jpg)
Post by: wapitirod on January 24, 2013, 04:47:00 PM
Reed Exhibitions has decided to postpone, for now, the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show given the controversy surrounding its decision to limit the sale or display of modern sporting rifles (also called ARs) at the event. The show was scheduled to take place February 2-10 in Harrisburg, PA.
“Our original decision not to include certain products in the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show this year was made in order to preserve the event’s historical focus on the hunting and fishing traditions enjoyed by American families,” said Chet Burchett, Reed Exhibitions President for the Americas. “In the current climate, we felt that the presence of MSRs would distract from the theme of hunting and fishing, disrupting the broader experience of our guests. This was intended simply as a product decision, of the type event organizers need to make every day.
“It has become very clear to us after speaking with our customers that the event could not be held because the atmosphere of this year’s show would not be conducive to an event that is designed to provide family enjoyment. It is unfortunate that in the current emotionally charged atmosphere this celebratory event has become overshadowed by a decision that directly affected a small percentage of more than 1,000 exhibits showcasing products and services for those interested in hunting and fishing.
“ESS has long been proud to participate in the preservation and promotion of hunting and fishing traditions, and we hope that as the national debate clarifies, we will have an opportunity to consider rescheduling the event when the time is right to focus on the themes it celebrates.”
Post by: T-Bowhunter on January 24, 2013, 04:52:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 24, 2013, 05:16:00 PM
Post by: LimBender on January 24, 2013, 05:19:00 PM
To the naysayers, I get it, but the way this site is run you probably already know that this is a very rare exception and not the rule.
Further, just like us parents trying to protect our children from an increasing barrage of offensive crap on tv are constantly told to change the channel, I say, why don't you just read another post? There are hundreds more on TG to peruse.
Post by: Bowwild on January 24, 2013, 05:57:00 PM
I like when the libs tried to cook Chic Filet's "goose". It backfired on those folks too.
Post by: Sharpster on January 24, 2013, 07:13:00 PM
Ron
Post by: Mike Theis on January 24, 2013, 08:50:00 PM
They say that they want to let the air clear before the go forward with the ESS. They say we are raising a stink over this. But I don't think that they realize exactly where that smell is coming from. Most everyone else connected with this show did!
How much you want to bet this Reed Exhibitions organizes a corporation by another name for sponsorship before they try to sponsor another ESS sports show? How can any sportsmans oriented vendor trust this group going forward?
!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: el greco on January 24, 2013, 09:16:00 PM
Post by: Doc Nock on January 24, 2013, 10:00:00 PM
Welcome and thanks for your thoughts. Problem today in the instant information age is nobody wants to do all the research to find out the TRUTH!
I see by your comments that you've gotten a limited view of the issues. Much information is flowing these days... how SRI's, anti-depressants have had people going off berserk and all the perps of the horrid gun crimes seem to now be documented as being on one of those meds!
Other good data shows we've reduced violent crime by 50% in this country in the past years... firearm deaths are pretty much limited to "inner city metropolitan areas" but the media won't tell you THAT tidbit...straight from the crime reports.
Would be "profiling" if we went where the problem was and fixed it THERE!
Lots of good information to help clear your view if you seek it ---it's out there, my friend.
I grew up believing that the media would leave no stone unturned to find and report the truth.
Unfortunately, no longer. You have to dig up your own truth. The High Priests of Truth are the media moguls and they've not told the truth about crime, violence and the role guns play in it for many years now... they have their own agenda and "spin Doctors" promoting their versions of reality.
Keep pushing and you'll find REAL answers to many of your concerns... and the reality will be pretty alarming once you find the truth!
Peace- out
Post by: Lynch Mob on January 24, 2013, 10:01:00 PM
What's next MAD wanting automobiles outlawed because of drunk drivers.
Maybe... we should look at our own homes and see what they call video games kids are playing, or the violence holloywood has no problem making money off of.
Kidos to all those who made the stand for all us.
Have a nice day
George
Post by: Iron Man2 on January 24, 2013, 11:38:00 PM
I will admit that I was reluctant to post this for several reasons: 1. It was suggested to find it your self, nothing about radio people 2. I do not feel we should be debating the stats and figures on the TG 3. The only people instilling "fear" and "paranoia" are Politicians and media outlets alike have injected fear into our society about these “assault weapons,” implying they are the biggest threat to our safety. However, nothing could be further from the truth. 4. The intent of these threads, I think was for us to vent on the TG and a show of support because of the broader picture and the consequences of not protecting our Constitutional rights and Freedoms that are being attacked across the board. 5. Is the government really after “true Assault weapons” (i.e. a M16) or all our guns or all weapons?
6. What I have learned reading these threads on the subject, is that either “you get it or you do not”, and the Membership in TG, and the Adm has been very tolerant and supportive. I want to thank them for that.
nuf Said...My 2 Centavos
JL :archer2:
Post by: wapitirod on January 25, 2013, 12:20:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by pznuts:What you have to look at with the 2nd Amendment is first of all it doesn't say anything about hunting or sports shooting and second is look at what they had to say about the 2nd Amendment which by the way is what gives teeth to all the rest.
OK, someone has to play devil's advocate. I am not a big gun guy, that's why I am on this site. I have a .22 to do a little squirrel hunting but that's about it. So, most of our rights have limitations. The first amendment contains the freedom of speech, but you can't slander people and you can't yell "fire" in a movie theater. Children are citizens of this country, some of them work and pay taxes, but they can't vote. Most of our rights are restricted in some way, they aren't limitless. I don't think the framers of the Constitution had any idea of where firearm technology was going to go, and if they did they might have been a little more clear. I don't agree with the far left but I do think we have to address why our country is so violent. I think something has to be done and I don't think the answer is more guns. Well, that's my two cents.
Thomas Jefferson stated that the main reason for the people to be armed is so that as a last resort they could fight a tyrannical government. James Madison said the people should have access to the same arms as the standing army of the day. Now no one is suggesting we can buy nukes but his point was this. Should a tyrannical government come to power, similiar to the one we have now. The people need weapons equal to those of the forces they will need to defeat in order to overthrow the government.
This is considered radicalism today but it's not, as we keep letting the govt take freedom after freedom away we are coming closer to a socialist dictatorship. Many think this is an impossibility but it is not and as more people become government dependent it will be easier for this to happen. Throughout history monarchy's, dictatorship and even some socialist democracy's have used the disarmament of the population in order to einforce their will, the most famous of which is Hitler.
Another thing I get tired of is people referring to the US as a democracy, it is not, it is a Republic. The difference between the two in a simplified form is this, a Republic is ruled by a constituion and a democracy is majority rule or mob rule which is what we have now.
They (our politicians) seem to have forgotten they are restrained and limited by the Constitution and instead do what they feel like because they have a majority. In recent history both parties have violated the constitution and it's up to the people to set things right.
The constitution allows for this to happen through diplomacy and elections but when those measures fail they were very clear in that they intended for the people to use force. They foresaw these problems but what they did not foresee is the narrow minded ignorance, laziness and cowardice that has infecteted this country.
Post by: duncan idaho on January 25, 2013, 12:52:00 AM
This is a good thought, but, I think you should apply it to our politicans, all of them, from the local mayor to the Executive branch. I have spent the last 8 years in Iraq, Afghan, Jordan and other places, and I can tell you that you have no idea the level of incompetence in our government. In IMHO, every person has the right to defend their self and family. Doesnt matter what any law is once you are under attack, remember, laws are only for the honest. In the future, in this country anyway, you will eventually have to decide which is more important, following the law or defending what is your right.
Post by: wapitirod on January 25, 2013, 01:18:00 AM
Anyways we've drifted way off now but back to the main point which is we must stick together and we must find a way to restore the republic or the loss of the 2nd amendment and our hunting rights we'll be ensured and unfortunately the least of our worries. Thanks to the Wensel brothers and many, many others we've sent a message to the private sector that we will not tolerate infringement of our rights and now we must follow through against a corrupt and bloated government.
Post by: rascal on January 25, 2013, 01:58:00 AM
Second for the few that have questioned how this all relates to us here at TradGang...
If you are curious how the issue of gun control, the 2nd ammendment, media spin, political usurpation of our rights etc affect everyone here at TG here is just a little selection I found concerning bows and their use in murderous attacks in currrent news.
December 2, 2012
***Son kills father in bow and arrow attack***
"A community college instructor killed in a classroom murder-suicide in the US was hailed as a hero, with police saying he gave his students time to flee by distracting and fighting off his son after the younger man barged into his computer science class and shot him in the head with a high-powered bow and arrow."
Notice the LABEL "high-powered bow and arrow" makes it seem incredibly sinister doesnt it?...maybe even too powerful to be trusted in the hands of the masses. Lets face it archery equipment has been used in the military from antiquity throughout today so it can also fall under the umbrella of military arms.
Dont think for a moment the forces that seek to disarm the public will simply stop after getting the arms LABELED as "assault rifles". After all what is an AR15 but a simple semi-automatic centerfire rifle chambered in a military caliber. Why not all current or former military cartridges (trust me the list is huge) or all firearm actions used in the military in the past or present or perhaps all arms used in the military past or present...oops there goes our traditional bows. The people that want to disarm you would have no qualms going after hunting as a means to further this agenda, after all if you cant hunt legally why would you need a weapon capable of killing large mammals?
There is no level at which the people intent on taking your freedoms will be satisfied, take a moment to pull your head from the sand and look around for all the proof you need. Kindergarten student suspended for a piece of paper torn roughly in the shape of a gun, kindergarten student suspended for making gun shape with hand and saying "POW", kindergarten student suspended for saying they would shoot someone with their "Hello Kitty Bubble toy", recent actions in both the UK and Asia to regulate "large or pointed kitchen knives". If the current headlines dont convince you we are all in this together then there really is nothing that could convince you.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 25, 2013, 06:27:00 AM
this thread is about the ESOS pa gun show and the reaction of gene and barry, and many many other show vendors, who decided that even though they put up good money to sponsor the event, the show producers and management had a different agenda that infringed on their beliefs and rights as law abiding US citizens, and they boycotted the show.
however, and equally important and tangent to the above, is how we traditional americans view weapons and our society, and what our rights are with regards to guns and other weapons - and make no mistake, that surely does include archery. there are many posts about this matter within this thread. one can't discuss the boycott of a gun show without discussing the core issues as to why this is occurring and who is involved.
our constitutional rights are constantly under attack. most of us know that all too well. for those who don't, who can't grasp what's happening in america today, please allow this thread to be a wake up call of sorts. get the facts straight, then decide where you and your family and your friends fit into the bigger picture of life in these united states.
terry has allowed this thread because of the serious gravity of its underlying nature, and ramifications of its potential consequences. we all need to be aware. awareness is the first step in both understanding, change, and defense.
my personal postscript to this now postponed gun show, and to all the senseless tragedies that have occurred in schools throughout our country (also considering the most recent one that just occurred in texas) is ...
... who is viably protecting my grandchildren in their schools right now, today? what immediate level of protection and defense do they have against another newton tragedy happening in their schools?
Post by: duncan idaho on January 25, 2013, 06:45:00 AM
You are so correct about who is protecting our children. I am 8 thousand miles away with a child in the Georgia school system, there is no way I can protect him, other than giving him advise on the phone, which is useless in the face of an armed assault. I make my living training people to survive combat, yet, I am totally powerless in defending my child. I have to rely on some stranger to step in do what is necessary. What a nightmare. I have visited his school and survyed it through my training, and I can tell you a non-trained person could take the place, I can only imagine the horror that a trained, tactical person, with a will to die for their cause could unlease.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 25, 2013, 06:52:00 AM
i hear ya, bill - and totally agree.
how do you protect and defend in a school? imho, with FORCE if need be. what is "force"? trained personnel carrying weapons.
to me, this is so stupidly logical that even children can both understand and agree. but the politcos will not hear of it. instead, they'll just make it harder to own a gun, will not allow armed security in most schools, will not allow teachers to legally carry (CCW) in schools, will not allow ANY guns in schools. just totally insane and setting the picture up for another newtown.
Post by: Beanbag on January 25, 2013, 07:27:00 AM
Post by: Beanbag on January 25, 2013, 07:35:00 AM
Post by: Roughrider on January 25, 2013, 08:18:00 AM
There is a certain degree of risk of living in a free society. I think we gave up many freedoms after 9/11 when the government installed TSA. We are now paying through our noses to be strip searched before we board an airplane. What's the real risk of boarding a plane without TSA? If every passenger boarding a plane had a gun do you think any of those planes on 9/11 would have reached their destination? Why do we applaud those on the flight over PA that took action to defend themselves, yet prevent anyone from defending themselves? Where did this twisted idea come from that I can't defend myself. Why is it ok for our politicians, celebrities, police and military to carry weapons to defend themselves - aren't our lives also valuable?
I've never used a gun to defend myself and pray I never have to, but I want the God given right to be able to should it be necessary. A basic right of ANY living creature is to defend itself. In the world of nature, of tooth and claw you defend with tooth and claw, in the world of humans you defend with whatever weapon the aggressor, whomever it is, may have. Don't go to a gun fight with a knife. You are never "OVER GUNNED" when you're defending yourself.
If you don't own a gun now, I would certainly get one - if nothing more than as a show of solidarity to all Americans who value their freedoms. If you don't agree, travel around the world a little and see how people live in other countries.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 25, 2013, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: Doc Nock on January 25, 2013, 08:29:00 AM
BTW, fwiw, I don't have TV anymore since it went digital...and the mainstream is no longer committed to truth reporting but a version of "1984" the book. Same with talk radio. Entertainment and ratings driven. So there is no way I hear or view those shows you "ass-u-med" I used to gather my information.
We can agree to disagree. I support your right to your own opinion, however that was formed using whatever data you're most comfortable embracing!
Cheers!
And Rob, did you read about how our Politicos kids go to schools with armed guards on the roof?
Isn't that ironic?
Post by: Zbone on January 25, 2013, 08:36:00 AM
Thomas Jefferson stated that the main reason for the people to be armed is so that as a last resort they could fight a tyrannical government. James Madison said the people should have access to the same arms as the standing army of the day. Now no one is suggesting we can buy nukes but his point was this. Should a tyrannical government come to power, similiar to the one we have now. The people need weapons equal to those of the forces they will need to defeat in order to overthrow the government.
This is considered radicalism today but it's not, as we keep letting the govt take freedom after freedom away we are coming closer to a socialist dictatorship. Many think this is an impossibility but it is not and as more people become government dependent it will be easier for this to happen. Throughout history monarchy's, dictatorship and even some socialist democracy's have used the disarmament of the population in order to einforce their will, the most famous of which is Hitler.
Another thing I get tired of is people referring to the US as a democracy, it is not, it is a Republic. The difference between the two in a simplified form is this, a Republic is ruled by a constituion and a democracy is majority rule or mob rule which is what we have now.
They (our politicians) seem to have forgotten they are restrained and limited by the Constitution and instead do what they feel like because they have a majority. In recent history both parties have violated the constitution and it's up to the people to set things right.
The constitution allows for this to happen through diplomacy and elections but when those measures fail they were very clear in that they intended for the people to use force. They foresaw these problems but what they did not foresee is the narrow minded ignorance, laziness and cowardice that has infecteted this country.
"
wapitirod - Bravo, very well said...
pznuts - Paraphrasing the NRA, "The only way to stop a bad man with a gun, is a good man with a gun."
Post by: Terry Green on January 25, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
That means no 'devil's advocates'....there's enough of them in DC.
Post by: 4runr on January 25, 2013, 09:41:00 AM
Read Senator Feinstien's proposal.
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 25, 2013, 09:53:00 AM
hypocrites all of them!
Post by: gregg dudley on January 25, 2013, 10:03:00 AM
Post by: Bldtrailer on January 25, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
Post by: gringol on January 25, 2013, 10:50:00 AM
Post by: Iron Man2 on January 25, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
The following I am quoting comment on Huff Post reporting on the boycott, (which by the way is a liberal media and most of their followers are anti-gun).
“The initial decision on Jan. 16 to bar the display of assault weapons at the family-themed event was made in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in Connecticut, a tragedy which galvanized public support for broader gun safety laws and led to a vigorous debate over the merits of civilian ownership of "modern sporting rifles" (MSRs).”
According to Reed Exhibitions' United States President Chet Burchett, "in the current climate, we felt that the presence of MSRs would distract from the theme of hunting and fishing, disrupting the broader experience of our guests. This was intended simply as a product decision, of the type event organizers need to make every day." :biglaugh:
Like I said before, all weapons will be on the list.
JL :archer2:
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 25, 2013, 11:47:00 AM
the most insane bit about gun control is the term "assault weapon". anyone who knows anything about guns - rifles, shotguns, handguns - knows that it takes much more than a name to make a difference in a firearm.
true assault weapons are fully automatic capable and ruggedly built for extremely hard use and environments, such as the much used h&k 416 and all the other iterations of the ar15. in its semi-automatic format it's no different than any other sporting weapon, and in fact it IS a sporting weapon, not an "assault weapon".
Post by: 4dogs on January 25, 2013, 11:51:00 AM
Post by: xtrema312 on January 25, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
Post by: Moots on January 25, 2013, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 25, 2013, 12:37:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:I am big on reading quotes from the founding fathers so as to discern their true meaning in the Bill of Rights. Rob this goes along with what you said there.
(clearly, i realize this is going off topic, but hopefully in a good way as i see it tying right into the reasoning why pa gun show debacle occurred)
i hear ya, bill - and totally agree.
how do you protect and defend in a school? imho, with FORCE if need be. what is "force"? trained personnel carrying weapons.
to me, this is so stupidly logical that even children can both understand and agree. but the politcos will not hear of it. instead, they'll just make it harder to own a gun, will not allow armed security in most schools, will not allow teachers to legally carry (CCW) in schools, will not allow ANY guns in schools. just totally insane and setting the picture up for another newtown.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." --Patrick Henry
Post by: xtrema312 on January 25, 2013, 01:28:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:Wow Rob could you get me going on this one! We have a governor I support for the most part, but he just vetoed legislation that would have permitted concealed carry in way more places in our state including schools. At the same time, Texas is training teachers to shoot and carry. I am thinking Texas has its head on straight, and we still have too much influence from the east side.
(clearly, i realize this is going off topic, but hopefully in a good way as i see it tying right into the reasoning why pa gun show debacle occurred)
i hear ya, bill - and totally agree.
how do you protect and defend in a school? imho, with FORCE if need be. what is "force"? trained personnel carrying weapons.
to me, this is so stupidly logical that even children can both understand and agree. but the politcos will not hear of it. instead, they'll just make it harder to own a gun, will not allow armed security in most schools, will not allow teachers to legally carry (CCW) in schools, will not allow ANY guns in schools. just totally insane and setting the picture up for another newtown.
I work for a company that specializing in K-12 school construction. I see firsthand what happens in schools for security. I hear all about the issue, and I have been part of many discussions on school security. You can imagine what has been going on recently for me. The talk of bullet proof glass, special locks in classrooms, boarding up windows, closing off window between halls and rooms……………. Is very interesting to see what people think will make a school safer. The reality is that unless you have a huge budget, you can’t do a whole lot to really make a school safe from really motivated psychotics with any reasonably well thought out plan. Honestly, my basic house with nothing special but a dead bolt is probably more secure than a school.
The building and safety codes for schools are all about getting out of the building for student safety. It is about lots of doors and in non-fire suppressed building, big exit windows in every student occupied room. This makes security mostly only effective against those with less than mass murder intentions. It is impossible to secure a building when all it takes is a rock to get in.
Up until recently, most schools were way more concerned with the problems with kids, busses, and parents in parking lots than with armed intruders. That was because parents with cars ignoring signs and rules is a way bigger safety issue than mass murders.
I have also worked on jails and prisons. Those are very different than schools. I don’t want my kids school being in a prison. In addition, I do not want them to feel like they are so at risk that they have to be in lockdown all the time.
I do believe we need to do more to keep our kids safe. We should continue to do the right things to make schools reasonably safe and improve where possible. Schools as impenetrable fortresses and gun control are not viable and reasonable solutions for dealing with a few nuts and some serious issues with our current society. I have no problem with properly trained staff and visitors having a gun in a school. I know that they will make a difference if someone comes in the building with bad intentions.
If I was to worry about my kids and school, it would be that they would be hurt on the bus, crossing a crosswalk, on the playground, or playing sports. These things carry far higher likelihood of serious injury or death then being shot in school. I read something a while back about kid’s safety in school related activities. I think something like 700-800 school kids are killed every year going to or coming from schools. Most in private vehicle, walking and biking accidents.
Life is unpredictable and none of us will survive it. I believe it being prepared as best as you can for today, tomorrow and eternity. Then live life without fear or the need for politicians to do something to give you false sense of security so you can sleep at night.
Post by: Beanbag on January 25, 2013, 02:52:00 PM
Post by: Greg Skinner on January 25, 2013, 03:27:00 PM
I’ve watched the erosion of gun ownership rights over the past 50 odd years. One of the original arguments the antis used in promoting the 1968 Gun Control Act was “is the gun suitable for sporting purposes?” I’m gratified to see the number of individuals here on TradGang as well as across the nation who see that the 2nd Amendment is not about weapons for sporting purposes. However, the Diane Feinsteins are still hammering on that phrase for leverage in seeking passage of more gun control. It is a step by step process. Google 1968 Gun Control Act and you can see how insidious it has been. And we as citizens have accepted each new restriction; which is why I must applaud Gene and Barry and all the others who have taken the stand for what it right.
It is interesting to see how the media handles gun control. This morning on the front page of the local newspaper (the Lewiston Tribune) was the headline “Feinstein unveils new assault-weapon ban”. Back in Section E, the Outdoors Section the headline is “Major groups join outdoor show boycott”. They weren’t even up to date enough to know (and print) that the ESOS had in fact been cancelled/postponed.
Many of you who have posted on this thread have done an excellent job of summarizing the issues involved, so I will not be redundant. I would like to point out something, though, to those who don’t think this issue has anything to do with traditional archery. Read the Hunger Games trilogy if you don’t think traditional bows can be used as weapons for military purposes and regulated as such. And while you are at it, think about how the Capitol controlled the Districts with an iron hand (i.e. the Peacekeepers). Does it not have a familiar ring to it? Makes one wonder how much is fiction and how much is potential reality.
Finally, I would like to point out that although we can all recognize many evils of modern technology, I am thankful that we have the means to communicate with other like-minded individuals through internet sites such as this. At least we can live in our little corner of the world and know that we are not alone in our struggle to maintain the freedoms we cherish.
Post by: Beanbag on January 25, 2013, 03:55:00 PM
Post by: Roughrider on January 25, 2013, 04:21:00 PM
Do we really have freedom in America today? As a legal, law abiding citizen why is it anyones concern about how many weapons I own? Why am I restricted to where I can carry those weapons? Owning a gun of any type doesn't make you any more dangerous than any other citizen - unless someone wants to take something from you. I really don't think the liberals realize what can of worms they are opening - I beleive most of them too are mislead into thinking that controlling guns somehow makes a more peaceful society.
If the end to the entire gun debate is not the eventual disarming of the people, then why are we required to register any new guns? Does having your name on a list somehow make your gun safer? Does it make you less likely to commit a crime with it? NO - it makes it much easier for someone to know who owns guns and where to go to take them back. Please, please, wake up folks! We have lost so many freedoms that there is even some risk in posting many of the views presented on here.
Post by: on January 25, 2013, 04:24:00 PM
Post by: champ38 on January 25, 2013, 04:39:00 PM
Post by: Beanbag on January 25, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Post by: smokin joe on January 25, 2013, 05:09:00 PM
We must hang together or we will be hanged separately.
Post by: huntingarcher on January 25, 2013, 06:08:00 PM
Post by: Craig on January 25, 2013, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: Moots on January 25, 2013, 07:51:00 PM
To my knowledge, Warren Buffet has never been accused of "laundering billions of dollars." What is your source for this?
Post by: Craig on January 25, 2013, 07:53:00 PM
Post by: elknutz on January 25, 2013, 11:21:00 PM
Post by: wapitirod on January 25, 2013, 11:25:00 PM
Post by: WINDTALKER on January 25, 2013, 11:45:00 PM
Post by: Gatekeeper on January 25, 2013, 11:53:00 PM
Rob will nip this in the bud.
Post by: gregg dudley on January 26, 2013, 12:03:00 AM
Post by: gregg dudley on January 26, 2013, 12:05:00 AM
Post by: Gatekeeper on January 26, 2013, 12:18:00 AM
Post by: wapitirod on January 26, 2013, 12:26:00 AM
Post by: Gatekeeper on January 26, 2013, 12:40:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wapitirod:No we don’t normally have this problem and we can all thank Rob for that. I talked with Rob about this very subject and we don’t have a Troll problem because Rob has a very hands on approach to signing up / screening individuals for membership on this site. Very time consuming for him, but also very effective. Once and a while a Troll will get out from under the bridge but not often because Rob is a good shot. :goldtooth:
I don't know if you guys have run into it here or not before but on the handgun site I'm on we've had worse than normal trolls. We've had hardcore anti gun/ anti hunters trying to bait us into things that could be used against us. We even had one that was forthcoming about who she was, which was a journalist from the UK doing a story on guns in America. She tried to get several of us to talk before being blocked from the site. If we thought it was going to be a positive report it would have been one thing but we were pretty darn sure she was going to try and bait us into something that could be used for the anti's agenda.
Post by: duncan idaho on January 26, 2013, 12:46:00 AM
Post by: FerretWYO on January 26, 2013, 01:30:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gatekeeper:Consider it nipped. Taken care of.
That’s his/her 1st post. This is a troll.
Rob will nip this in the bud.
Post by: wapitirod on January 26, 2013, 01:35:00 AM
Howard Stern did a deal on his radio show and asked people questions like, what do you think about obama choosing Palin as a running mate? They would say they think it's great, there were many more like that and not one of the people caught on. Another lady was asked why she was voting for obama and she answered, because of all the free stuff he said he's going to give us.
With clueless, ignorant people like that out there it will be hard to ever turn this thing around with the vote. The lib base is growing on a daily basis with the backdoor amnesty that obama has given illegals and of course with the economy expected to crash again that will mean more welfare dependent individuals. There are states right now where the number of unemployed people on welfare outnumber the ones working. That kind of math won't last for long and when you take their freebies away you better look out. The crap the occupy people pulled will be nothing, it will look more like the riots in greece and other parts of europe.
To link this to the 2nd Amendment, if people can't and won't understand things like our financial crisis how can they understand the sanctity of the constitution, as long as they are allowed to stay illegally and everyone still gets their freebies they could care less what this administration does.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 26, 2013, 08:13:00 AM
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on January 26, 2013, 09:14:00 AM
Kudos to those who do not put money before beliefs!
Post by: vermonster13 on January 26, 2013, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: ken denton on January 26, 2013, 11:47:00 AM
Join NRA. Go to shootingusa.com and they will pay $ 10.00 off your annual membership. My wife and I are both members. If just 20,000 Tradgangers join?
Remember some of the venders at the ESS did not know the show was cancelled and could not pull out. We called a vender when we read it was and he did not know. We had shipped him over 2,000 in merchindise? Don't divide us because they are in the same business we are in. My wife and I did the show for over 10 years.
*****Join NRA***** Ken Denton
Post by: jackdaw on January 26, 2013, 12:55:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on January 26, 2013, 01:01:00 PM
I was waiting to see if he posted and he did, bout 30 minutes after I went to bed.
Thanks guys for taking care of him. Funny, they go to great lengths to register, and they make one post and within minutes the post is gone and a click later so are they.
Post by: jackdaw on January 26, 2013, 01:18:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on January 26, 2013, 03:19:00 PM
The show has been canceled but of even greater concern is Dick's and Wal-Mart dropping black guns from their stores. Keep the Second Amendment in mind if you shop at either of these places.
Post by: smokin joe on January 26, 2013, 04:16:00 PM
We must remember that the anti-hunting/anti-gun lobby have gone after hunting and arms of various types in the past. They gravitate toward areas where they see weakness and a potential victory for themselves. It is just the "black rifles" this time because that is where they see the possibility of a victory. It is foolish to think that they would not come after bowhunting if they thought they could win and wipe us out.
We must hang together or they will hang us separately.
Post by: on January 26, 2013, 04:37:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 26, 2013, 04:47:00 PM
the root of this whole affair with gun control is to remove guns - ALL GUNS - from the hands of americans.
it's the politicos and the media that are spearheading this war, and whipping up the sheep (typical bonehead ignorant americans) to do their bidding with gun control protests. they're coming for us all, for all us sheep dogs who have the guns that will protect the sheep from the wolves - make no mistake about that ...
i just sent a $50 donation to the nra fight fund.
Post by: Terry Green on January 26, 2013, 05:01:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 26, 2013, 05:06:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:yessir!!!
Rob....you mean 'Sheeple'. :readit:
Post by: centaur on January 26, 2013, 05:10:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on January 26, 2013, 05:34:00 PM
The views and comments of the mods and members of this website are yet another of the many great reasons that make me proud to be a member of Tradgang.
Rob, your statements couldn't be more spot on, sir!
Post by: Irish Archer on January 26, 2013, 05:52:00 PM
Only handguns were used in the shooting, from the earliest reports.
So why isn't that info being supported by anyone, anywhere, in the news today?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 26, 2013, 06:05:00 PM
Post by: Irish Archer on January 26, 2013, 06:26:00 PM
It just seems odd to me now that the RIGHT side isn't speaking of that because the proposed ban of weapons came about as a result of Sandy Hook.
If I ran a right side news agency, I'd speak of it, that's all.
I knew what Obama would do, that's why I didn't vote for him.
Post by: xtrema312 on January 26, 2013, 06:36:00 PM
We also had a short report about assault weapons from the point of view of the Kent County sheriff’s department. The outdoor show is in Grand Rapids and that is Kent County. They showed police officers shooting an AR based semi auto with some fancy add ons. They then showed a basic sporting rile taking a clip and shooting the same amo. They said there really is no difference between the two other than cosmetics. They also stated that they see no issues with “assault rifles” and that they were not a concern about them. Very pro gun stand. It was nice to see.
Post by: jsweka on January 26, 2013, 06:41:00 PM
** UPDATE **
STATE POLICE IDENTIFY WEAPONS USED IN SANDY HOOK INVESTIGATION;
INVESTIGATION CONTINUES
In previous press conferences, the Connecticut State Police clearly identified all of the weapons seized from the crime scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
To eliminate any confusion or misinformation, we will again describe and identify the weapons seized at the school crime scene.
Seized inside the school:
#1. Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine
#2. Glock 10 mm handgun
#3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun
Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:
#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)
This case remains under investigation.
Lt. J. Paul Vance
Content Last Modified on 1/23/2013 8:18:21 AM
And here's the link I got it from
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284
Post by: LC on January 26, 2013, 06:52:00 PM
I just have to add a couple things. Keep in mind I work in a public school system and know full well the impacts of this both good and bad. I actually work mostly in part in the "safe" schools department. I've been in alot of top level meetings where some really stupid ideas have been proposed but sadly putting armed security guards fall low in the list of fixes! Go figure!
First I feel sad they we the american public know more about the details of the Libyan embassy attack then we do about this home front problem. WE THE AMERICAN public deserve and need to know the details about this. It's not like we are waiting on the trail to come about for prosecution! I think we all know why we aren't told the details because like the old saying "don't confuse me with the facts" the present administration and main stream news media says guns, all guns are bad and they must be outlawed. Don't be confused folks this is a all out blitz to take away all guns from the amercian people.
Second simple me I NEVER realized this problem was as simple as our chest thumping politicians think that passing a law that scary black guns with big clips are illegal would fix this problem. Cause we all know that drugs are illegal, drunk driving is illegal,robbing banks, texting while driving is illegal and we now have no more problems with those! Actually PA has had 23 deaths from the flu this year alone. Why don't we just pass a law to make the flu illegal. Don't laugh it's about as sensible as the proposed gun laws are.
Gheez I feel bad. Like my neighbor is saying I'm on may way out but I sure feel bad for my kids and the next generation. America is going to heck in a hand basket and I'm in the basket.
Post by: xtrema312 on January 26, 2013, 06:57:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
the media reports i heard said he used a bushmaster rifle, which is an ar15. none of which matters. he could have walked into the school with a bottle of gas, a rag and a lighter and blew the place to kingdom come. the point being, there was no viable protection/defense for anyone in sandy hook.
Quote
Exactly! It is not hard to harm relatively defenseless women and children without a gun. Anyone remember Rwandan? It is beyond me how people can think that making more people defenseless will do anything to stop the evil ones among us. If anything, it just makes evil people more bold and successful in their twisted doings.
The most devastating losses of life in this country I can recall right off have been from a truck load with fertilizer and some airplanes. I can’t even bring myself to say some of the things I can think of that would be so easy to do that would be far more devastating than a gun on a soft target. I fear someone would do one of them.
Post by: jsweka on January 26, 2013, 07:15:00 PM
This is a very heated debate at the moment and although I fully support our 2nd amendment rights, we do need to keep emotions in control and and form well thought, calm, and factual responses when discussing this issue. Just remember, the anti-gun advocates (and anti-hunting advocates) are not the majority in this country and neither are we. We need to show the middle majority, who have yet to take a side, that law abiding gun owners are not the enemy and not the ones to fear. We need to avoid emotionally charged arguments in lieu of civilized discussion, give the facts, and share our beliefs and the reasons for those beliefs in a respectful manner. If the only direct contact a non-gun owner has with a gun owner is a negative experience for them, they're going to vote with the other side.
I think it is great that all sportsmen, regardless of our chosen weapons, are coming together in a united front to protect our rights. We just need to do it with a calm clear voice and dispel the stereotypes of gun owners the anti's have perpetuated. -JMHO.
Post by: Irish Archer on January 26, 2013, 07:19:00 PM
Thanks for that link. Again, the news clip I saw must have been trying to "get the story out first" instead of getting the facts out.
Not suprising. Thanks again.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 26, 2013, 07:23:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Irish Archer:that's the "sensationalize at all costs" american media - do whatever it takes to gain audience, attention and revenue. nothing but useless, truth twisting propagandists. it's rare to find media that just reports the news without any spin.
John,
Thanks for that link. Again, the news clip I saw must have been trying to "get the story out first" instead of getting the facts out.
Not suprising. Thanks again.
Post by: xtrema312 on January 26, 2013, 07:25:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LC:Wow I just had an epiphany. Do you realize that the evil black box, aka. Smart phone, aka assault phone is responsible for more deaths in this country due to accidents than the assault weapon? We need assault phone control. We need to take away all pones with more than the ability to make a phone call. All the added features and added apps on the assault pones just make them more dangerous. They should all be permitted and you should have to pass a background check to make sure you are not some texting addict or you don’t have some previous conviction of texting while driving or electronic harassment. You should have to carry them in the trunk of your car when you transport them to make sure you can’t access them when driving. This should be easy to get done given we have no constitutional right to them. They are not essential to life given back in the dark ages of the 80’s we didn’t even have them. After all it is all about saving lives isn’t it? So why would we all not want to give up our assault phone because a few people are reckless and kill others because of them? :biglaugh:
Cause we all know that drugs are illegal, drunk driving are illegal,robbing banks, texting while driving is illegal and we now have no more problems with those!
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 26, 2013, 07:44:00 PM
Post by: KentuckyTJ on January 26, 2013, 08:01:00 PM
Post by: Bonebuster on January 26, 2013, 08:43:00 PM
Post by: LC on January 26, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
One last thing and I'm done. I about puked watching the video of him, with those inocent kids watching him, sign his executive orders on this,who has used this privledge the most and more that all past pres in this history combined, is I wonder if they realize how far in debt he's put them?
Post by: elknutz on January 26, 2013, 09:21:00 PM
Post by: jsweka on January 26, 2013, 09:27:00 PM
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php
As I said in my previous post, we need to present facts in this debate.
Post by: ishoot4thrills on January 26, 2013, 09:27:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by KentuckyTJ::readit:
Over 1 million kids killed each year by abortions. It amazes me what our society freaks out about.
Post by: wapitirod on January 26, 2013, 09:32:00 PM