Trad Gang

Let me start of by saying that I just would like an answer, not trying to start an argument.  This is just food for thought.

I see posts on here about slacking form.  They usually start off by saying "i have recently had trouble getting to anchor" or "I have found myself snap shooting" or something of that manner.

Most always they end up saying, "I dropped poundage and all is well now".  

My question is, why is a drop in poundage always the answer?  Why not get a heavier bow and practice getting it to anchor, then go back to your go-to bow?  You will end up with the same results, but still find yourself shooting the same weight in the end vs. shooting a lighter bow.

I just wonder why folks seem to gather so close to the "not enough" border.  I hear folks asking "Is this enough bow for..."  Why even get yourself to that point??

When I am hunting and see a buck, if I ask myself "is this deer a shooter" I don't shoot.  If I have to wonder if its good enough or not...ITS NOT.  When I see a buck and instantly grab my bow to ready for the shot, it IS a shooter.

I feel the same way about my bows.  I have not asked "is my bow enough bow for..." and put anything in the blank you want.  I know that I have sufficent bow for anything I run across, incuding a not so perfect hit.

I jsut feel like we are running toward being a society of "barely sufficent" folks.  I hate to see it.  It seems like people will not put fourth the time and effort it takes to accomplish anything.  Yeah, its hard sometimes, so what?  I know guys that are 6' and 250 lbs that shoot a 40# bow.  That blows my mind.  If there is a physical problem, that that is perfectly fine, if not, then man up. My wife is 5'6" and about 130lb and shoot a 43# bow.  

Why would a person even want to get close to the "Not enough" side of the equation.

Just for reference, I am 6' 185lbs and shoot from 64#-70# @ 28" and I draw 29ish.

I know that there will be guys that dont like this post because they shoot the lighter bows.  I am not trying to cause problems or hurt feeling.  I just cannot conceive why such a thing would be deemed as OK.  Guys scream about ethics because a guy takes a 30 yard shot, but see no problem with shooting a bow that will only do the job in a perfect situation.  To me that is crazy.  

To me, the more accurate argument is nonsense.  If you work at it, you can be just as accurate with a 70# bow as you can with a 40# bow.

What do yall think about it?

I hear what you are saying shoot as heavy a bow as you can shoot well. I will say back in the 80's when I got into bowhunting the craze was at least around Athens Ga mostly due to Archery Traditions to get folks to shoot heavy bows. Most everyone I knew had a 65-75 lb bow and only a handful of them had any business shooting them. Myself included. I used bows aroud 68 lbs for years then dropped to 56 and my shooting got tons better. Now in my 50's with a bum shoulder I have a 47 lb bow ordered. I highly recommend any newbie shoot 45-50 and only work up over time and yes any fit young fella should be able to shoot over 50 lbs.

I also think we should shoot all the bow we can. And most of the time if it's not a health issue, a person can build up some in muscle strength. To be good at something requires work. Archery is no different. I think we should work at our bows and get better. However, there are physical limits for some people that make it impossible to shoot heavier bows. Good thoughts though...

I cannot answer your question Nathan. I started with 50# a long time ago and that is what I am comfortable with. I proved to myself at Solana, with Donald's bow, that I probably could go up a bit, but it just does not feel "right" to me like the 50# does. So, I will keep shooting the 50# I am comfortable with. BTW, I do have complete confidence in my set-up. I have taken a 700# animal with it and am not afraid to sling an arrow out of it at just about anything out there. I do not wonder if I have enough to do the job or not.

I practice nearly everyday and no matter how good I get I know I can be better and am continually striving to be a better shot.

On a side note, I hope your wife don't see this thread. Telling everybody how much she weighs just might get you in a bit of hot water!       :scared:              :scared:              :scared:      

See ya later,

Bisch

My philosophy exactly.  Good post.  I'm sure you'll get blasted for trying to "prove your manhood" or some other such nonsense.  

If I'm capible of accurately shooting 70 pounds and you shoot 50, and another guy shoots 80, what's that to me?  We can't run 26 miles without training, but thousands of people train and run marathons every year, the same with bows.  The only way you can shoot 70 pounds is to shoot a 70 pound bow.  Shooting lots of arrows from a 40 pound bow doesn't make you proficient with 50 pounds.  A few arrows out of a heavier weight- even 3 -5 pounds more than you're accustomed to, will try your strength.  Shoot it everyday for two weeks and it'll be easy.

If one were seriously dedicated to it, and healthy, I don't know what the upper limit would be.  I suppose most of us could work into shooting 90 - 100 pounds or more if we shot multiple arrows every day and worked into that weight. Once you're fit to the weight, you should be able to shoot 100 pounds as accurately as 40.

I used to shoot up to 70# then physical problems and aggressive degenerating body caused to either bow with a cr##sb*w or as I chose to lower poundage to 50# to continue to hunt Traditional. Remember no matter how much one works on increased poundage's for hunting Trad bows, science dictates limitations by genetics of the individual. The main reason to work in to weight/#'s is accuracy in the first place. I do know things (s**#t) happen (branch in low light, bolting game, etc). But why the comment "I know that I have sufficient bow for anything I run across, including a not so perfect hit"; When a bad hit is what one would take every precaution to avoid (no offence meant or argument just a point of view). Perhaps lower #'s is because there are so many of us older folks out here, physical limitations or just concerns for accuracy with what one can handle to hunt responsibly; Just my thoughts.

Even though at times I should stay quiet, I still open my mouth - I'll bite.
I believe there are two viewpoints on this and the later (not yours) seems to have developed in the last few years (during the ILF thingy). There are those that believe they shoot lighter bows more accuratly and using a lighter arrow, generate the same speed, in there mind = killing power. "a sharp well placed broadhead" I read alot. I've seen these balistic tests with light arrows claiming pentration is better - blah blah. I fall into that 6' 200 pound physical fit whimpy guy pulling 51 lbs or so. Never even owned something over 60. I do believe the heavier the arrow, along with speed is the way to go - although in my meager 8 years shooting this stuff not alot has hit the ground for me to verify it, I must just trust those wiser than me and continue. I will say I used some 55lb bows for 4 years or so and my accuracy is better with less, than more - and I shoot most days, it is not from lack of shooting. Anything under 50 lbs I do not seem to like, seems to whimpy to me - IMHO. Don't know what group I fall under but maybe we could have three groups - ha! Where would the "cut-off" be anyway? On a side note - there are alot of guys stating they have shoulder issues shooting higher poundage bows, maybe that discourages some from using them.

Nathan, I can see exactly where you're coming from. Why walk the line when most are capable of shooting more, and I agree.

However, my guess is that most of the posts you see about "is my setup enough" aren't people who are all 6', 200lbs, young and healthy.

We all know that arrow weight can be a big factor, I think we should all take your comments into consideration when choosing our bows, and shoot the highest weight we can before losing accuracy. But we should also be recommending that people with lighter bows be shooting good heavy arrows with good sharp 2-blades.

There's alot to making the decision of whether you can draw a bow with enough weight to take a particular game species, but theres also alot to choosing your setup.
For example, is someone can only draw 38#, maybe a board bow with alot of string follow and a light arrow isn;t a good choice. However a 38# or 40# recurve, or hybrid longbow with a good heavy arrow thats well tuned can still be very deadly.

The point I'm getting at here is that so much focus goes into draw weight, when its really the arrow that kills the animal. The weight of the arrow and the speed ... thats it.

I may shoot a selfbow that is radically inefficient but if it draws 60# everyone here will tell me I've got plenty of bow. In reality it may not be worth more than firewood.

lots and lots of guys have brought down lots and lots of big game with bows around 50#.  Seems to work.  Nothing wrong with more weight, unless you can't shoot it well.  You are right that a lot of guys could work into heavier bows, but I think a lot of people would disagree with your statement that 50# or even 45# is "barely sufficient" for the job.  Working up properly requires a lot of time (something not everyone has) and $$$, since you should work up only a couple # at a time.  You'll need a lot of bows to get from 50# to 70#.  I don't have that kind of scratch and barely have the time.  So, I'm sticking with 55#.

QuoteOriginally posted by Roughrider:
My philosophy exactly.  Good post.  I'm sure you'll get blasted for trying to "prove your manhood" or some other such nonsense.  

Nope....he wont get blasted here...not on TradGang.     :campfire:

Well, like I stated, if there is an injury or physical limitation due to age or whatever, that is all together different.

Bisch, I have no problem with a 50# bow, especially with your 30ish draw.  I believe you could shoot more, because I saw you do it, but 50# is not the borderline setup I was referring to.  Its the 40ish and 30ish stuff.

Mark, the "not so perfect hit" comment was there because it happens.  I killed a big 8 pt earlier that started to move at the shot. I hit, and passed through, both shoulder blades.  That is just stuff that happens.

Bisch put it best when quoting one of his friends, "Its not that my heavy bow shoots so much faster than yours, its that i can shoot a 700gr arrow the same speed you can shoot a 400gr arrow"  That is where killing power comes from.

If you were driving on interstate and had an accident would you rather get hit by a Freightliner or a Geo...

I think bowhunting and archery is like any other past-time to people: there is a level of ability, commitment, and resources all on a continuum of something like 1-10.

Some people are more physically capable (say younger, good genetics, better shape) which may translate to 9/10.

They practice every day, stay in shape, live eat and breathe the sport and all it has to offer. OK, so maybe score another 9/10.

Said guy has access to space to practice whenever he chooses, has a life that affords the time (flexible job, no kids fewer other hobbies). Another 9/10.

Now compare that to an older (or even younger), somewhat out of shape urban dweller with a high pressure job, two kids or other responsibilities who just views archery and hunting as an escape. It is something 'he does', not necessarily 'the burning passion' it is for some others. It might be the camaraderie of an indoor league in winter and some time in a deer camp with buddies in the fall. That's it. They may come out as a 15/30 in total.

Everyone sits on continuums. I think a respect for those who are 'getting by with what they can' is ok, just as it is for those of us who can to push ourselves harder to do so.

I live rurally in the middle of nowhere, have built a 20 target range, practice almost every day all year round and am blessed to be able to shoot bows between 66 and 74#'s comfortably day in and day out. I am constantly practicing and training to backpack hunt in the mountains.

My Dad is 66 years old and in moderate shape, shoots 50#'s incredibly well, and just loves to sit and listen to the wind in the quakies.

Different continuums, goals, and abilities.

Shoot what you can hit your spot with and don't worry about the next guy shoots. Less is more when it comes to this sort of thing.    :bigsmyl:

I agree with everything you wrote.I believe Traditional archery is a martial art and you should physically train to maintain your strength to shoot a bow. "It appears to me" that reading posts here on bow weight, that it has the tone of, if you are aging, you must go down in weight,maybe people need to try working harder at their sport. IMHO

I tried the less route only to find out that I am not nearly as accurate than when using heavier poundage.  I also tried going heavier only to realize that my accuracy and body both suffered.

I am at the age and realization that what I am comfortable shooting is my "less and more".

Daz are you TRYING to make us all move to Canada! Thats sounds too good to be true

I agree with M. Mark. I think a lot of us on here are 50 plus yrs. It's more difficult to build muscle or even to maintain strength as you get older. Like everything, staying bow fit for the upper weight bows takes time. Not everyone has that time.I will be 54 in May, I'm 5' 8 1/2" 150 lbs., I shoot up to 53 lbs. and shoot almost every day. To shoot more weight takes daily training and is dangerously stressful on my aging muscles. When I have lapses in time to shoot I have to work back up to the 50 plus weight bows. So for me to think I could ever work up to and maintain shooting 60 plus pound bows is just plain unrealistic. Iv' always been strong for my size, but my size ( and age ) is a limiting factor.

Age will affect your abilities, no question.  But how much is totally up to you.  When my Grandpa retired, I was in my 20s.  He would work my butt in the ground when hauling hay or cutting firewood. He was 5'10", maybe 160#s, but he had DRIVE.

I just wonder if we are trading our drive in for a bunch of excuses.

Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Ben,
I paid my dues as an urban dweller in my 20's, and lost a lot of hunting time. Living in a million+ city and commuting three hours a day in rush hour, all the rest.

Made a choice about what mattered to me. Time with my wife, and time to enjoy what makes my soul dance. I don't have the 'things' i used to have, and there are times i would kill to be able to have a good meal in a restaurant, but i did what i needed to.

There are lots of places in the Western U.S. where the lifestyle i have is available...   ;)

QuoteOriginally posted by JamesV:
Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Sometimes the boat has a hole in it.

I would rather someone tell me that there is a problem before I get into the water and sink.

It is possible to be as accurate with a 70 lb bow as a 50 lb bow.

In theory, it is possible to be as accurate with a 150lb bow as with a 50 lb bow. But it will require more practice, more muscle building.

The point people make is that, for a given amount of effort, most people can be more accurate with the lighter bow. IMO, if you're a youngish guy shooting a lot, heavier bows are worth it. If your shoulder muscles joints are deteriorating, the work and price you pay for a 60lb bow are probably not worth it.

As has been proven in other threads, there are a lot of heavy bow advocates on this site. These people put the work into shooting a heavy bow. The problem is when newbies come to the sport and think they need to shoot 60lbs when a 40 lb bow will do until they get better.

I shoot 50 lbs right now. I'm working on holding longer and using a bowfit so that in a couple of years, when I've saved for a new bow, I can go up in weight and not sacrifice accuracy. It takes more effort, but since I have the time it will probably be worth it.

QuoteOriginally posted by JamesV:
Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say.

Jake you hit the nail on the head I have been at this 30 years and have shot heavy and light. I have known maybe two guy's that are really good shots with bow's over 70 lbs and 100's who try to shoot 70 and should be at 50. I killed 25 deer a hog and a elk with a 50 lb hickory selfbow and I was deadly with it from 20 feet it shot 150 fps with 550 grain arrow. Now I am dropping down to 47 lbs so I can shoot all I want without shoulder issues. It's a personal thing.

Originally posted by JamesV:
Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Works for me too!!

Bornagain, How old are you? See if you have the same perspective when your 50. No offense and I understand what your point is, I just think your view is somewhat limited. I don't think most of us trad shooters shoot lighter bows because of some underlying cop out. On the contrary I think most would like to shoot heavier bows if they could. I know I would. I just think your not seeing the whole picture, evidenced by your statements.

Couple of thoughts. I agree with you. I'm your size and shoot 55-60 weight bows. I'll be 60 this year. I used to shoot 75# all the time. I need to work at what I shoot now as poor genetics is giving my body a hard time.

I used to run 6-9 miles every other day too. Buggered heel and bad knees won't let me ride a bike. I walk but it's not the same. I have sore joints in my shoulders from playing too rough when I was young. Bum ticker, crooked spine, etc.

I'm wondering if our overall demographic is getting older compared to younger people getting into it. The young folks seem to want things to be easy these days as is our culture.

I'm dreading the day that I can't shoot hunting weight bows.
But then there's always fishing.

Easy answer, age. In my case anyway
Some younger guys coming from wheels and cams askfor what they shot in that world.  Ego makes them buy 70 pounder with nohope of ever shooting it welll, for a host of ego and socioecomonic reasons as stated above. Dropping down makes sense for them to begin enjoying the trad journey.  Physics of mass times acceleration is cold science and leaves out enjoyment, at least for medicare guys who lived a full, active and damaging to joints lives.  We ran in Keds and combat boots.  We did pullups and used our bodies as leverage.  And we pay.
Nice thread and maybe we should strive to go up in weight.  The advantage is we would shoot our normal weight bows better perhaps

I shoot what I'm comfortable with.......I shoot everyday it's possible and work out so that I can keep shooting. I shot 50-60# bows for along time and shot them well, then I had a issue with Target panic.....dropping poundage has helped battle that mental problem. It's not totally gone but 40-50#'s seems to work for me and I have confidence that I can make the shot when I need to on anything that I would hunt! I also think that as we age all kinds of things can affect the things we do,[arthritis, flexibility, and others]. Shoot and shoot often, have fun!   :thumbsup:    :notworthy:

I agree with the idea of a person trying to shoot as much bow as possible for them to shoot well, especially in the context of hunting.  Now, if you are not hunting, but just into shooting stumps, or 3d events, etc, why would you want to shoot a heavier weight bow?

Dropping down in weight is effective when you are focusing on issues (like anchor, release, target panic, etc).  It allows the mind to focus on the task at hand, and not be distracted by physical limitations or stress.  Even then, though, there will come a time when the improvement "phase" needs to include working your way back up to hunting weight.

i can see yer talking from a youth's perspective.  yer making me jealous, nathan.   :D

imho, as long as you have enuf bow for the species of game you pursue, bow holding weight just don't matter at all.  there are more important matters to consider.  

far Far FAR more important is yer overall consistent accuracy at game killing distances, having arrows that track true, and really sharp coc broadheads.

shoot whatever you think will work best for you and never be concerned what other folks shoot.    

oh yeah ... i used to shoot 65# longbows back in the day, many decades ago.  that day ain't never ever coming back for me as i knock on the 70 year old door.  50# does me just fine.  ymmv.  hah!  ;)

I'll be 61 this year and my hunting bows range from 52# to 57#. I never shot over 60# my entire life, no need to. Talk to western bowhunters back in the late 60's early 70's...and even into the mid 80's and they all advocated bows 65-70# because of elk, moose and long range shooting when bowhunting the prairies.

I believe todays bows are much more efficient than years past and you can shoot a lighter weight bow and get the same speed and power of past bows. I'll shoot what I feel comfortable with until I need to reduce the weight. I have shoulder surgery coming up Feb 9th...I already packed up my Kempf Stealth to send back and have wt reduced to 55# from 58#.

Bottom line, shoot what feels good to you until your no longer able to handle that weight. Bad form is not learning to shoot properly from an experienced trad shooter when you first start out. No one can control when TP hits..rears it's ugly head when you least expect it.

I shot 80# bow for years. Then one day I could no longer control my shot with that much weight, could still pull and hold the weight but could not control my shot, dropped to 60# and still shoot 55-60#. Shoot what you can control. By the way, I am 6'1", 240, 62 years old and I can still pull and hold an 80# bow but like I said, cannot control my shot at that weight, so I shoot 55#-60#.

i'll add one important imho caveat - IF you clearly are able to way more than handle a 65# stickbow, but choose to play with a 45# bow, THAT is a disservice to yerself and the game you pursue.

maybe that's what you were really gettin' at, nathan?

A few weeks I stopped by an archery shop which has a little indoor range.  Two guys walked in.  One nice looking long bow and wood long fletch arrows. Nice bow. The other had a beginner recurve of the type the shop sold.
Watched them shoot for a few minutes. The beginner was able to pull the lightweight recurve and did pretty well grouping on the bales.
The long bow shooter. Well he never made it past 3/4 draw on any shot and some not that far. And needless to say the arrows were all over the place.  
I guess I am saying shoot what you can handle.

John (whoops!), are people getting your point?  It seems to me that a lot of the responses are not getting to the heart of the discussion you started.

As for me, I like to push myself.  I could shoot my 48# bow literally all day long, with practically no muscle fatigue.  I don't like the fact that it feels too easy.  I also have begun shooting 69# limbs on my recurve, which -- I will admit -- were tough to shoot when I first got them.  So I started a pretty dedicated workout routine:  Every day I do 3 sets of 10 draws (10x right-handed, 10x left-handed), holding for 2-3 seconds at each draw.

By the way, I'm 6'0", about 195 pounds.

Now I can draw that heavy bow to 31", hold it for a count to 10 if I want to, and still shoot a controlled shot.  I don't ever hold that long in real life, but you get the point.

It is a natural tendency for a person to take the path of least resistance.  The same for animals -- you find fish escaping current by hiding behind rocks, and we know that deer prefer to walk on clear trails instead of bush-whacking.  Let's face it:  We all prefer walking a trail up a mountain instead of fighting through alders all the way.  But I like to hear about people who worked hard to achieve something, instead of just settling for something because "it will work".  

Isn't it the guys who are willing to get off the beaten path (the easier road) who find pockets of game that were not found by the less-committed hunter?

Certainly, there are people who are older, or who have health problems or physical limitations, who are GLAD that a 40# bow will get the job done with that sharp, well-placed arrow.  But even if I get to that point someday, I hope I will want to shoot 46# if I can work up to it, instead of 40#.

I don't think Nathan wanted to start a discussion about bow weight.  I think he was talking about pushing ourselves to strive for excellence, instead of settling for mediocrity.  And we must remember... one man's excellence (my shooting a 69# bow, for example) is another's mediocrity (bcause the guy who shoots 85# bows considers mine a lightweight).

I agree with you completely on shooting a heavier bow then coming down to my "standard" bow weight.  Always much easier.

I think the differences come from a number of the things pointed out by the other posts.

Physical capability is the biggest.  Some guys just can't pull #60 because of age, old injuries, etc. (let alone 70#).  I think we also have to recognize that not all of us are in trad archery to hunt big game.  A bunch of guys here only small game hunt.  Others are in it only to kill a 3D target or punch wholes in a piece of paper.

For those that are capable of it, I think your post is spot on.  For the others, it probably doesn't fit as well.

Like Terry said, you won't get slammed here.  We respect your opinion, as, I'm sure you do ours.

Good post Nathan.

Ken

What a brave post, kinda like my predator control on raptors post but you have graciously and intelligently  worded it so as not to offend anyone.

    I shoot from 46-55 lb bows and have killed big game dead and with a quickness with all of my set ups. I dont recall what made me buy a 46# bow but man o man when I got it it was a dream to shoot and I put my heavy bows up for a while.

    Some may sneer at me for saying this but I think hunting with a lighter yet proven adwquate bow is kinda like a feller that shoots deer with a 22-250 cause thats all it takes to kill his game. I think it adds an extra measure of challenge to the game due to the fact that you have further limited yourself and have to choose your shots more wisely.

    After all, if we wanted to hunt with the most effective weapon available we'd be toting 30.06s

    Just my thoughts but let me warn you Nathan. If you ever shoot your wifes bow you may get hooked on them bantam weight bows.   :campfire:

Good post but won't get you where you want.  I 100% agree with you and while I say I know I'll never kill a single thing with your bow and you'll never kill anything with mine so does it all really matter?  These guys that say they are old now and "have" to shoot lighter are in the same place as the ones your talking about.  If you work at it you need to be "OLD" before you need to drop weight unless there's a real medical problem.  I'm 60 and shoot my 72# Bear T.D. daily and throw in my 80# longbow just for fun sometimes too.  The thing I noticed as I aged is that the time "between" practice session has to be shorter than it used to be or I really need to work hard to get it back.  The key is working at it.  I use either my 72# Bear or my 80# longbow for all of the 3D shoots and I average 85% at them shooting always from the compound stakes.

Some of us rely on technique, strategy and treachery rather than youth and strength.  ;-)

Five years ago I got good and plenty sick with a bacterial infection of my lymph system and went from 210 lbs to 155 lbs (I'm 6'3").  I still haven't got back the strength I had and have settled at 175 lbs.

I got up to drawing 70# in my 40's but never mastered it.  Now I'm back down in the 50 to 60# range, depending on bow, and for whitetails down to small game they seem to perform quite well.  I guess if I was trying to drive large broadheads through heavy game I would need more, but the 130 gr single blade heads on my 11 gpp wood shafts come out the back side as it is.

At the end of a day of slogging in heavy clothes when that buck skips up I can still get to full draw and hold it for an extra few seconds if needed.  I want to control the bow, not the other way around.    :archer:

I took the approach the author mentions-  starting with something heavier to work the muscles and ligaments.  I bought a Samick Sage with a set of 45 and a set of 60# limbs.  I forced myself to shoot the 60 the majority of the time, switching to the 45 after tiring or sometimes warming up with the 45 and then shooting the rest of my session with the 60's.  eventually I purchased several more bows between 50 and 65 pounds and got comfortable shooting them all...in between I would default to the 45# setup to work on form.  It eventually got to the point where 45 felt almost to light and toyish.  Not a bad thing, just an indication that my muscles had become conditioned.  I also got ahold of a 75@28 warbow...for the very purpose the author mentions, to build up strength...I would shoot dozens of shots with the warbow, not really focusing on accuracy, though it certainly was possible...lo and behold after several months shooting anything 45-60 is extremely comfortable.  Not everyone can afford a half dozen bows to do such things but it is certainly possible to do it with a Sage and multiple limb sets for not too much $.  My lightest go-to is a 46# Zipper, and that's plenty for anything in FL...I also keep on hand two ELB's, one 58# one 64#...and because of their 6 foot length they are a pleasure to shoot.  There's no hardest rule for this stuff...it just depends on what your goals are.

Not gonna blast anybody, just gonna disagree that more is better, either.

You can't stack game animals.  If you are already shooting through them, there's no sense to working harder.  Time to start thinking about comfort, confidence, awkward shooting positions, cold mornings, etc.  All are very good reasons to drop a little bow weight.

The only argument where I would agree with MORE bow weight is if you are having trouble cleanly killing game.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
i'll add one important imho caveat - IF you clearly are able to way more than handle a 65# stickbow, but choose to play with a 45# bow, THAT is a disservice to yerself and the game you pursue.

maybe that's what you were really gettin' at, nathan?

Bingo Rob!  I've been thinking of a way to formulate my thoughts into words... Luckily for me you hit my thought right on the head...  

I work hard on my form with lighter weight bows, but for the life of me I can't be as consistent with the lighter bow as I can with my normal hunting weights...  I do realize someday I may need to drop weight, so that is why I'm trying to rectify the consistency problem now...

PS:  bow design is a huge factor in all of this.  Draw force curve is what I mean...read the Traditional Bowyers Bible vol.1 for more info. My 6 ft 64# ELB is gonna be a heck of a lot different to pull than say a 58" 64# recurve...again, what is your equipment and what are your goals are the relevant questions..

I think you will answer your own question if you are still shooting the bow when you reach a certain age. Beyond that age, which varies with individuals, every year you are capable of doing a little less than you could the year before. Generally, parts of the body, shoulders, knees, feet, hips, etc., that may have been overused or injured earlier in life begin to wear out and fail. Life becomes more of an orderly retreat, or at least we try to make it orderly, than a victorious advance.

I don't mean to make this sound negative, because I don't feel that way, and neither do the other people of my age who continue shooting, albeit lighter bows than we used to shoot. Instead, we find our victories in continuing to do the things the good Lord allows us to continue doing for as long as we are able to do them.  

Do what you can while you're young, but be wise about it. If I hadn't run so many marathons in my 40's, maybe I could still be running today. If some people in their 70's hadn't pulled so many 70# bows when they were younger, maybe they could still be pulling 40# bows today.

Now that it's no longer hunting season, I put the heavier limbs on my Silvertip (73# @ 29"), and have been shooting that for the past while, focusing more on building up than form.  I still make sure I draw to full draw and hold it - so I don't build up bad habits.

Then, at the end of my session, I pick up my 58# Silvertip and really focus on making good shots.

To me, it makes a WORLD of difference.  I plan on shooting both bows up until season this fall.

A fella should shoot what he is comfortable with.I can draw and hold heavy bows but my shoulder hurts for two days afterward. I can shoot my 50 lb bows all day with no issue. easy choice for me. I have no desire to lift weights and work into a heavy bow because 30 years and maybe 400 deer and pigs have proven to me my 45-52 lb bows get it done.
 With an honest 400 give or take deer and pigs under my belt and a couple hundred more kills with guys I hunt with or have helped track I don`t know a of a single animal lost because the bow was not enough pounds.I can think of several lost because the shot was not in the right spot.RC

I haven't read all the replies, but in response to your original question regarding guys having trouble  shooting (reaching anchor, etc.) and dropping weight remedies the problem, I'd bet it was more of an issue with psychotriggers initiating the release.  Dropping weight would be a temporary fix in that feeling less weight on the string isn't tripping the wire.  However, once they get accustomed to shooting that weight, the problems might come back.

QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
Shoot what you can hit your spot with and don't worry about the next guy shoots. Less is more when it comes to this sort of thing.     :bigsmyl:  

:thumbsup:

Thanks for keeping it civil guys!!!

  :campfire:

What DAZ, McDave and especially what RC said.

I think the main factors in dropping weight are age, injuries, arthritis. Target panic doesn't count as dropping weight is not a cure. If you have certain types of target panic with a hunting weight bow you'll have it with a target weight bow.

I'm not going to get into discussing what poundage I shoot because it doesn't really have anything to do with your question but let me say at age 69 I'm hunting with the same weight I did at 29. I drop the weight 5-6# to shoot 3-D all winter, spring, summer and fall. Just more comfortable for me. I have a "form bow" which is 15#-20# lighter than my hunting bow which I  LOVE  to shoot. I also have a hunting bow 5# heavier than my hunting weight bow which I shoot sometimes and have no problem but I feel I'd hurt myself if I shot it as much as I shoot these days which is a lot.

So to answer your question I do step up a little sometimes but I also step down. I feel I'm playing it smart and protecting my body since I've been at this game for a lot of years since I was a boy and have sustained a couple of serious tendon injuries that required surgery in the last 3 years.

my first recurve was samick sage 60# limbs on a high country sniper compound riser. i couldnt pull it back to full draw but as i kept practicing i finally would draw anchor hold release. One day i put the bow on a scale and realize @28 it was 67#.

I now shoot a predator recurve 58# @28. it has been the bow i really wanted. i am more than pleased with it. I can draw back anchor hold... still hold, and shoot haha.
I am 23 years old 5'7 and weigh 175 lbs. played sports my whole life.

i enjoy the muscle burn from this weight. instead of moving up i just end up with longer shooting sessions. even as i know i should stop i dont and burn my muscles. i will rest for 2 or 3 days take in alot of protein and get back at it. i have done that from day 1 learning trad shooting. i can make fine shots out to 20 yards with no problem.

i tried a 35# bow i cant shoot it for nothing. feels like im tying my shoes.

sorry to get off track but, as weird as it is i take bad shots when i shoot at something with a ring in it like a paper target. but when i shoot balloons, deer target, and stump, i shoot exactly where i look. i guess im weird haha.

Here again What a lot of us older guys are saying is:  1)  When your young the sky is the limit when it comes to building and conditioning muscles.
   2)   Once your not so young you realize there is a limit to #1  
     3)  This realization varies with age, past physical stress, genetics, physical size, ect
     4] If your under 50 years of age, enjoy it and do your muscle toning now,because aging and all that comes with it is inevitable.
      5) If your much over 50 and you have been able to maintain hunting weight bows, then count your lucky stars and praise the Lord.

QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
I think you will answer your own question if you are still shooting the bow when you reach a certain age. Beyond that age, which varies with individuals, every year you are capable of doing a little less than you could the year before. Generally, parts of the body, shoulders, knees, feet, hips, etc., that may have been overused or injured earlier in life begin to wear out and fail. Life becomes more of an orderly retreat, or at least we try to make it orderly, than a victorious advance.

I don't mean to make this sound negative, because I don't feel that way, and neither do the other people of my age who continue shooting, albeit lighter bows than we used to shoot. Instead, we find our victories in continuing to do the things the good Lord allows us to continue doing for as long as we are able to do them.  

Do what you can while you're young, but be wise about it. If I hadn't run so many marathons in my 40's, maybe I could still be running today. If some people in their 70's hadn't pulled so many 70# bows when they were younger, maybe they could still be pulling 40# bows today.

:readit:    :notworthy:  

The problem for me is getting older and having so much to do I can't work out a lot to keep fit to shoot heavier bows.  Too much desk work, household work, kid stuff, church stuff, volunteer work, extended family issue....  I shoot some about every day, but to really pull heavier bows when you are older takes overall strength of the upper body to ward off injury for me.  I can't just build up bow weight by shooting.  Right now I am trying to find some time to work out to maintain my 50-55 range and not lose ground.  Shooting most days is not doing it anymore because I find my shoulders and elbows losing stability because just shooting is not keeping all the other little muscles strong.    I can still pull over 60# without issue, but if I try to shoot that a lot I will pay big. PT is no fun.   :archer2:

Dropping weight to practice form is different than asking if the set-up is enough. I think they are seperate issues.

INCREASING draw weight for a guy who shoots poorly, and needs form work, will likely MAGNIFY his form problems. Yes, it will make drawing his hunting weight bow seem easier, but it will also reinforce bad habits in the process. So, it will make drawing easier, but will likely make him/her a worse shooter overall due to reinforcing poor form.

Dropping weight to practice form is fairly common for high quality repetitive practice. It allows the shooter to practice correct form longer and instill that into his shooting without the excessive fatigue.

It's just like lifting weights, light weight for higher repetition and heavy weight for lower repetition. Usually, using light weight is to focus on proper form.

Many people, including myself, could probably spend more time working on their shooting form since it is important for accuracy. After all, accuracy  is king. Followed VERY closely by a sharp broadhead!

God bless and hope this made sense,
-Charlie

Got me thinking. I have been shooting a 45 lber and it is nice. I usually get the 54 lber going after shooting for a while consistently but when I just pick it up it takes a bit to feel good with it. But the thought was creeping in to just shoot that 45 lb bow because it's going good. I'll keep it up at least at 54 since it's not out of my comfort zone with a little work and not really that much when you are talking heavy bows. Anyhoo, just a thought.

Part of your original comment, suggesting that one gets a heavier bow to work out with is what I did a few year back,I borrowed an 80 lb. bow from a friend, hung it in a handy spot and when I'd walk by I'd pull it back,at first not very far but by spring I could pull it to full draw.
I never put an arrow on the string, it was just to work out with. Needless to say I was able to go back to shooting 60# bow no problem.

From a pure accuracy perspective, lighter weight bows are acknowledged as easier to shoot... and therefore more accuracy results. No amount of practice with an 80 pound bow will yield the accuracy potential of a 35 pound bow. If you doubt it, simply ask any Olympic archer why they don't shoot 60 pounds. It's not about commitment. It is about degree of difficulty and shot execution. That said...

Bowhunting isn't Olympic archery. But the same general principles of accuracy remain...namely good form through the shot. Increasing bow weight equates to increasing demands on the body (stress on muscles and related structures) which makes for more difficulty maintaining perfect form. That can be overcome to a degree by lots of practice and conditioning, but doesn't negate the accepted principle that a lighter bow is an easier bow (to shoot), and an easier bow will almost always equate to more accuracy. Lastly, many guys simply have limitations of practice time...of strength...of joint discomfort...of opportunities to practice.

Heavier (or lighter) isn't automatically 'better', but each can produce benefits of their own. I have to respect the guy who shoots 45 or 50 pounds with great accuracy and improves his shot/kill ratio. Bowhunting will always be about accuracy and placement first, followed by kinetic energy.

Shoot what you can hold and feel confident with. Its not competition, its what works to make an ethical kill when the moment presents itself.

 I shoot 70# bows cause its my comfort zone and my confident pound to be at,when I had back surgery I started low and work back up,sometimes you have to go the other way for other reasons.

 Its all a personal choice to me.As long as you can make the ethical kill shot with it.

Great thread!  Here's my two cents (and some of you may ask for change!):

I ran martial arts schools for a number of years.  I instructed student to work on mastery of form, FIRST, then to build power and speed incrementally.  Shooting form, like martial arts techniques, is key to not only the success of the practitioner, but also to the long-term physical condition of the practitioner.

So, my recommendation is to perfect form with as heavy a poundage as you can effectively shoot, THEN work gradually to increase that poundage (rather than settle for a lower poundage as "top end").

Apologies if this seems ridiculously simplistic.

Kingsnake

I agree with Daz.  
 You seem to think a lot of people have a "minimum effort" attitude, because they are not shooting heavy.  
 I agree that we should all hunt with what will get a clean kill.  But I am not experienced enough to know all of the possible right answers to that.
 I think the vast majority of trad hunters are doing the best they can and what they think is right.
 If everyone knows the limits of their equipment and skills, then that should greatly diminish the chance of wounding an animal. The ethical hunter uses his good judgement to pass up a bad shot.  IMHO

O.K. I will play.My first hunting bow was 45 @28"in my 20's and quickly went to 50 then 55 in my 30's and 40's and when I bought my first takedown in my 50's it was 57 then I bought some 60's and now I am in my 60 plus years and really enjoy my 50's plus or minus a couple.I may end up back at 45 if I get older.Wish I had kept all them light old bows.Your mileage may vary.Kip

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
i'll add one important imho caveat - IF you clearly are able to way more than handle a 65# stickbow, but choose to play with a 45# bow, THAT is a disservice to yerself and the game you pursue.

maybe that's what you were really gettin' at, nathan?

That is exactly what I am getting at, Rob.  When we were at the Solana Ranch, after breakfast, I would grab my bow and shoot.  Sometimes at dark spots in the grass by the bunkhouse (and that one plastic bottle!!) and sometimes at the targets.  I shot at the bunkhouse for an hour or so one day then went to the targets.  I shot a ton, but never got tired.  I shoot at the house enough to keep up with my 6 year old, now that a lot of shooting, and don't get tired.

As far a not being able to shoot accurately with a heavy bow, that is nonsense.  I can't shoot through the tab of a cola can like Mudd does, but I shoot consistent 3" groups at 25 yards.  That may or may not be good to you, but I am satisfied with it.  It is possible to shoot well with whatever you have, but it takes practice.

I really don't think I can ever be as accurate with a 70# bow as I can with a 40# bow. Not for as many repetitive shots anyway.  I've made/shot them that heavy before but I just don't see the advantage of it over a 50# bow.  

I get lots of customers that call and say "I'm getting older and I want to go with a lighter bow, can you help me"  I don't really see a problem with it.  I'm certainly not going to tell them to man up.

But I guess different things bother different guys.

Kevin.....i can shoot a 60# bow more accurate that a 30# bow.  It also has to do what u train with.

30#s doesn't engage my form...sort of ' blase' and i cant get into the shot.  LaClair won worlds with a 110 # bow.....do i have to mention HH and his bow weights and his 176 wins in a row?

   :campfire:

QuoteOriginally posted by bornagainbowhunter:
Well, like I stated, if there is an injury or physical limitation due to age or whatever, that is all together different.

It seems some folks missed the part where I said physical limitation are a whole different story.  I am talking about guys that have no limiting factors...

Ant guys....lets not turn this into a light vs heavy.....or' us against them'

  :campfire:

T's right.  I will just read from this point on in the thread.  I really just wondered why folks settle for less when they can have more.  

I put a ton of effort in my hunting.  Wither its shooting 70# bows enough to be deadly, passing small bucks, walking miles into a swamp to find the perfect spot, all day sits in freezing temps or scouting when its so stinking hot the only happy critters in the woods are skeeters and cottonmouths.  

I meant no offense to anybody and apologize if I came across any other way.

I'm 56 with 3 shoulder arthroscopies and shoot 50lbs.  I shot 70+ lb. compounds in my "wheelie" days 20 years ago.  I can't tell you the archers I've seen come to the trad side because it's no longer a challenge, but never grasp that a 70lb. long bow or recurve is not even kin to the animal they're accustomed to.  They're overbowed, their form is bad and only gets worse because their egos won't listen to reason. If they don't drop down, they eventually drop out or go back!

I get a better release and more accuracy with a heavier bow.

No...it's certainly not 'light v heavy'. I readily agree that heavy bows can be shot accurately. I routinely hunt with a mid-60s longbow and know I could go to 75# if I wished. I don't wish though. I have yet to see a situation in my life of bowhunting where 'more' bow would've made a difference on any hunting shot I've taken. I've shot through-and-through on a big moose with a mid 50s recurve.

The accuracy thing is simply arguable and never fully agreeable. Neither light or heavy bows produce accuracy...and both bows are inherently equally accurate. The variable is the man doing the shooting. If we talk averages, the lighter holding-weight bows are simply physically easier to shoot accurately for a clear majority of bowhunters and archers. That concept is the entire reason for the development of the compound bow and it's low holding weight. Yes, there are guys who don't need it or want it. That's fine. To say that heavier bows are as accurate as lighter bows is certainly true in essence. But on the average, most bowhunters will shoot the lighter bow with greater control, comfort and accuracy. Those who prefer one bow over the other should shoot it and enjoy it. They sure as heck shouldn't think anyone else will follow their example however.

without a doubt and at least for me, the release is always better/cleaner/faster when there's more string tension at full draw.

My Widow is right at 60# at my draw. I'm certain I could shoot 65-70 just as accurate as I do with 60 but I think I have found the right "balance" for me.
As I get older, 42 now, and my shooting tells me its time for a change I imagine it will be down in weight, not up.  I'll take a confident, balanced approach any day.

Good thread, Eric

Nathan, I appreaciate this post and your thoughts. Being a fairly descent athlete in my youth I have always understood the importance of solid practice and "training". I had made the New Year's Resolution to practice and train more this year in order to improve my shooting. I currently shoot a 55# bow, which is plenty for the hunting that I do, however, I have noticed that if I don't practice and train sufficiently, I have a harder time pulling the string. And as we all know, it gets even harder when it's cold out and I have a ton of clothes on. I would agree that building up "strength" would greatly benefit a guys shooting. I would also say that dropping in wt. to work on form is a great idea, as well as increasing wt. to work on strength is a great idea as well.  But as with all training, be careful, know your limits, and listen to your body. I've noticed that the older I get, the more my body talks to me!  :)

The next question that comes to mind; (was a loaded one so I decided not to ask it.)

Just what ever happens, if it feels like your shoulder is going to be damaged, don't try to draw too much without working up to it.  It's better to shot all your comfortable with than to cause permanent damage and have to give it up.

I won't go into why others choose the weight bow they do, but I'll explain mine.

Over the last 15 years or so, I've had to put the bow down for long periods of time first for military deployments and more recently because of two battles with cancer.  


Every time I've come back always trying to get comfortable with my heaviest bow (right now 65#).  At first it was because I always felt I have a cleaner release and feel like the arrow was going where I point with the heavier weight bow.  I guess that's the way my brain works.

Now there's an additional reason.  As I recover from cancer again, it is important for me to do as much as possible to get back as many things as I can.  Perhaps, it is childish, but shooting the heavy bow is one of those things.

Heres my 2 cents worth. Im a firm believer in shooting as heavy as you can and still be comfortable as well as accurate, we owe it to the game we hunt. As for those who are thinking or asking the " is this enough bow for..." question, the fact that you are thinking or asking it, means that you are not totally confident in your set up, which in my way of thinking means that it might be, but why take the chance?  by stepping it up a few pounds you take " might " out of the equation as far as bow poundage is concerned.
I will also add this, IMHO i believe that there are a lot of folks that underestimate themselves and there ability to go a few pounds higher, which may be the difference between a loss or a recovery on a not so perfect shot.   :coffee:

It took me over 25 years, several bows, and a few thousand dollars to work up from 45# to 65# and back down again. Pain makes you give up things you did when you were younger.

All my bows are 40#-47# now, I can shoot them all day long with better accuracy than ever.

I would like to add that folks that don't know or don't execute  the correct way to shoot NOT be included with  those that  do.

Many are over bowed for various reasons but its not fair for those that can handle more weight be thrown info those stats.

We are not all the same and one size, or weight does not fit all.


  :campfire:

I"m not going to read six pages of this. I'm responding at the end of page 1. I've shot heavier bows (high 50s), but now I shoot 50# and 46#, because I want my shoulders to live as long as I do. I'm 68, but age is not the issue. I'm not big. I think 50# allows me to hit what I'm shooting at. I'm going to do what I can do well, not what someone else thinks I can do.

Richard

No blasting from me, especially not of a fellow with the Faith to have that "handle".

I don't know when the heavy bow (greater than 55#) became popular. It must have been while I was "gone" from traditional sometime in the 1980-1990s?  When I was a teenager and in my early twenties, at least in Indiana where I began, most folks were shooting 45-55 pounds and a lot more at 50 than anything else.  Our quarry, whitetail deer, although rare were quite allergic to this tackle.  I notice there seem to be certain bows (very good ones I might add) such as the Bighorn that don't seem to have been made less than mid-60#s?

When I made an effort to return to recurves in December 2008, I began by shooting a 59# recurve -- just to get ready to hunt with a 52#er.  In less than 3 weeks I had pain in my shoulder (I had been shooting 60-74# compounds for 34 years). I'm not certain this 59# bow caused the damage, it could have been carrying too much lumber for a DIY home project. However, I was done shooting any bow until August of 2009.  That episode cost me many hundreds of dollars and worse, I was restricted to two shots (job-related) out of a Genesis compound (20 pounds) a month during that 8-month period.

I'm certainly not a minimalist in my spiritual, work, or recreational life. Frankly, I overdo most things.  I was still playing softball at 50.  I tried to return to it at 57 but my knee said no.  

I subscribe to the theory that almost all bowhunters want to be successful. They want their shots to be accurate, ethical, and result in dead beasts. They will research, ask questions, and evaluate their own experiences to settle on a combination of choices that make this happen.  

When the strain of drawing a bow to a solid, held anchor disrupts the subconscious performance of my shot process, I'm shooting too much draw weight. I also shoot every day, several times a day at times. I'm "stuck" at 46-49 pounds and very satisfied.  My 33-year old son is a 6'2" 241 pound ROCK.  He shoots 52# recurves but can press 8 times that.

Those who shoot ultra-heavy equipment well, certainly have some advantages; flat trajectory, heavier arrows, and maybe a bit more leeway regarding body angle of their quarry.  However, the "stuff" of a great bowhunter is found in the heart and the mind, not the arms or the back.

O.K. My hunting buddy from another Mummy,  a very  good thread & can't believe I'm just seeing it.

Although most of my bows are low to mid-50's, I agree with what others have stated about getting a much cleaner release on higher poundage bows.

I shot Pat Kelly's 78# longbow about 20 times recently at Shiloh & was impressed with how tight my groups were at like 16-18 yards.  Plucking, double-clutching or sloppy release issues are defenitely negated.

I'm pushing 50 & have a 10" screw in my left shoulder from an old training exercize in the Marines, so I doubt I'll push the envelope too much;  but I think that archers should aim to shoot the highest hunting weight bows that they can control.  

Shooting more weight pays off for marginal hits because added weight can result in PASS-THROUGHS.....which equates to blood on the ground, always a good thing!    :archer2:    :archer2:

I might mention that heavier poundage bows are often credited with helping the release/shot. The added tension definitely makes for a faster release off the finger tips. That acknowledged, I've shot bows from 40 to 70+ pounds and don't have a release issue within those weights. I get as good/clean release with moderate poundage as with heavier. I credit that to correct form and shooting habits.

Great discussion.  Good form is a must.  Striking the balance that gives you confidence in your hunting set-up when you're in the woods.  
 
My Dad wouldn't let me deer hunt until I could shoot 50# accurately.  So I did.  My Dad wouldn't let me elk hunt until I could shoot 60# accurately.  So I did.  He's 65 now and he stills pulls the heavier bow ... and he's still a better shot.  His passion for longbows and elk keeps him young.  I guess I'll just follow his lead.
   :archer2:

Interesting post Nathan..I'm one of those guys with a true 30" draw..I generally hunt with 50-52 lbs. I've shot heavier bows..One of my old Bears draws 65lbs for me..My shoulders and back  hold up just fine but my fingers get torn up something awful. Doesn't seem to matter what kind of tab I use...my ring finger will develop a blood blister beneath the skin after 20 shots with that bow...very painful and not at all enjoyable.

With my draw length and a 500 grain arrow on any of my 50-53 lb bows I never worry about having enough bow...not for the whitetails I chase every fall.

So for me, I just can't see the benefit of tearing up my fingers with a heavier bow. I guess if I ever got out west to hunt elk I'd have to work something out with a heavier bow..

Who's Nathan?

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
i'll add one important imho caveat - IF you clearly are able to way more than handle a 65# stickbow, but choose to play with a 45# bow, THAT is a disservice to yerself and the game you pursue.

maybe that's what you were really gettin' at, nathan?

Exactyly how I feel as well. Well said Rob.

I thought this was gonna be a thread about primitive hunting  ;)

I personally don't care what anyone else shoots for the most part.  While I think the majority of the post was geared to whether people were taking the easy way out, I think that when people have to ask the question of whether 'fill in the blank' is enough for 'fill in the blank', it kind of looks like they are striving for the minimum.  That likely isn't the case, and more likely is that they are new to this game and don't realize what others have done with lighter equipment or haven't discovered the joys of the search feature on this site.  There is really nothing wrong with knowing roughly what is the minimum for a given task.  It doesn't mean that you have to use that minimum, it is just a framework.  When I went hunting Buff, the general consensus was that around 70# was the minimum recommended, and I definitely wanted to know that(although differences in setup and bow efficiency certainly have a say in this).  I decided to get an efficient bow which was around 82# at my 29" plus draw.  Whether or not it was needed, it made me feel better.  Plenty of guys were successful with far less.

I've never really thought that less was the answer;  I picked a bow that would do what I asked it to, when I asked it to be done.  I can shoot my "heavy" 60lb bow as well as my 50lb bow, but I'm afraid that after I sit for a while and get cold that I might not do my very best.  Hopefully I'll get to the point where I know that my first shot on a cold morning will be equal with both bows, and I'll keep working to that end.

Sometimes less is a good answer, sometimes more is a good answer.

58yrs old, 5'10,190lbs,shot 53lbs for years,built up to 62lbs this year, took work, 53 killed just as good as the 62, shoot whatever makes you happy. Ray

Hi bornagain,I fit the description of being 6ft 250lbs shooting a 40lb bow.I was wondering what you think i should be using and how do i get there?

I know this isn't exactly what you were getting at with this post, but I can tell you why less is the answer for this guy. Severe arthritis in my cervical spine has left me with a pinched nerve (C-6) that controls my right arm and causes me a considerable amount of arm and shoulder pain. A sports injury has left me with arthritis and tendonitis in my right shoulder. So to continue to enjoy something that I truly love I have had to drop down to a 43# bow. Can I shoot a heavier bow, yes, but it causes enough pain that I can't enjoy what I'm doing. My physical therapist told me once that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Am I not pushing myself by shooting just 43#? I don't think so. I'm just doing what it takes to enjoy the sport I love. I wish I could shoot a higher poundage, when I could still pull it, I found a 55#  bow easier to shoot accurately than a 43# bow is now. If I am ever in a situation when I'm not sure my 43# bow will humanely kill the animal I'm looking at I won't shoot it. Judge not lest thee be judged. What weight bow someone chooses to shoot is personal and should be left as such. Not slamming or disageeing with you. Just passing on my view. God Bless.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Mecredy:
Who's Nathan?

Nathan is the OP.....bornagainbowhunter!

Bisch

I'll tell you why I am moving to lighter poundage. I really enjoy shooting 3D, and I don't have a 3D specific bow. I shot a 3D on Sunday where I shot about 110 arrows or so, including practice. I find with my heavy bows at around arrow 40 or 50 during a tournament I start getting fatigued and my shooting suffers. I like to win, and I can't win if I'm missing my mark halfway through a 3D because I'm tired. So I've found my middle ground weight to be around 50 lbs. For me its the perfect all around weight for 3D and hunting. And I am 6'2" and 215#, not small by any means.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
Those who shoot ultra-heavy equipment well, certainly have some advantages; flat trajectory, heavier arrows, and maybe a bit more leeway regarding body angle of their quarry.  However, the "stuff" of a great bowhunter is found in the heart and the mind, not the arms or the back.

Another great and deep quote!  I love this place!  Bowhunting is a big part of my life, and when I hear or read others thoughts that dive into my very thoughts/beliefs it is very re-affirming and enlightening at times...

QuoteOriginally posted by bornagainbowhunter:
Age will affect your abilities, no question.  But how much is totally up to you.  When my Grandpa retired, I was in my 20s.  He would work my butt in the ground when hauling hay or cutting firewood. He was 5'10", maybe 160#s, but he had DRIVE.

I just wonder if we are trading our drive in for a bunch of excuses.

I think you nailed it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Originally posted by JamesV:
Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Works for me too!!

Add another one.

A shoot through is a shoot through regardless if it's a 40# or 65# bow.

Dan

QuoteOriginally posted by WhiteBeard121:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Originally posted by JamesV:
Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Works for me too!!

Add another one.

A shoot through is a shoot through regardless if it's a 40# or 65# bow.

Dan [/b]

X2. We have guys come out to our gun club with their .300RUM that shoot 4" groups at 100 yds on a good day. I can usually shoot their gun into a group less than 1/2 that, but only for about 3 shots. Then I start to flinch.  There are days it takes 2 ibuprofen for me to get out of bed.  I work at the gym 3 - 4 times a week, but my bones and muscles are getting weaker - not stronger. I draw my 50# bow several times each day, but I choose to shoot bows several # lighter because I can do it better.

A hole going in and one coming out satisfies me.
When I can't do that, I'll probably quit bow hunting.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bladepeek:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by WhiteBeard121:
   

QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Originally posted by JamesV:
Why not just paddle your boat and let the next guy do the same??

Works for me too!!

Add another one.

A shoot through is a shoot through regardless if it's a 40# or 65# bow.

Dan [/b]

X2. We have guys come out to our gun club with their .300RUM that shoot 4" groups at 100 yds on a good day. I can usually shoot their gun into a group less than 1/2 that, but only for about 3 shots. Then I start to flinch.  There are days it takes 2 ibuprofen for me to get out of bed.  I work at the gym 3 - 4 times a week, but my bones and muscles are getting weaker - not stronger. I draw my 50# bow several times each day, but I choose to shoot bows several # lighter because I can do it better.

A hole going in and one coming out satisfies me.
When I can't do that, I'll probably quit bow hunting. [/b]

Sir,
   with all due respect and as someone who has designed training programs for elite forces, if you are training 3 to 4 days at the gym and you are getting WEAKER, then you need to have your program scraped. A proper training program will always, either help you maintain your strength or increase your total force output. IMHO, you need to have your training program examined by a fitness professional.

I totally agree with the fact that if you can shoot 60# well, why shoot 45#?I have reached a point where I am having to move down in weight.
20 years ago I was shooting 68-70#. 10 years ago I was shooting 64-66#. Right now I am shooting 51-52#. I just turned 57 years old and am 5' 9" and 190#. I was always able to shoot heavier bows, until the last several years when shoulder pains starting showing up. I recently bought a bow I had been looking for, but it utrned out to be 4-5# heavier than marked. I drew and shot that bow well one night for several dozen shots. My left shoulder complained severely for the next 3 weeks. 38 years of construction have taken a toll and so now I have to be content to shoot a few pounds lighter than I would prefer. I want to be shooting till my last day so I need to take care to not do any more damage to my body. So far deer have died just as quick and I had a pass through on a 400$ bear thuis fall with 51#. Age is the contibuting factor for a lot of us and everybody is not made the same.

Good discussion.  

I see both sides of the issue.  I believe that people shouldn't play on ghe margins if they dont have to, but I understand the physical and economic (time, commitments and money) reasons that people shoot less weight.  

I guess for me my threshold (arbitrary and random at best) is around fifty pounds.  If I ever drop below that I will have to ask myself why.   If it is because I am not investing the time and effort to be proficient at higher weights I will have to work harder.  If it is because that's all I can manage I will have to be that much more disciplined with shot selection.  Either way, I'm going to hunt with confidence within my self established limitations.

There is nothing scientific about the reason I am shooting the weight i am now.  When I first started shooting trad I ordered a 56 # bow. I ordered the first one because was advised not to be overbowed as a new trad shooter, but I couldn't make myself order anything lower than mid fifties.  I thought 56 sounded a lot sexier than 55.  I've stuck with that because I am thrifty and like to be able to shoot the same arrows out of multiple bows when possible.  Could I shoot more?  Yes.  Would I have to work at it?  Yes.  Do I feel compelled to do so?  No.  Do I have faith in my equipment?  Yes

I guess the overall thought for me on low poundage is why shoot on the margin if you don't have to?  The next question is what is the margin?  I guess I answered that for myself above when I said my threshold was around fifty.  

Seems like Nathan's, Jeff's and Terry's might be higher.  Seems like RC's  and Bisch's might be lower.  Here's what I know about that.  All these guys are thoughtful, responsible, seasoned and ethical outdoorsmen.  They are also proven killers.  They know their abilities and their limitations.  When Nathan says we should push ourselves there is a message there.  When RC says there's a lot of dead critters at the end of his blood trails that's a worthwhile message too.  Bow weight is just one part of the package.

I think knowing ones capabilities is the first step to being an ethical hunter,I know for my self due to injuries I can't shoot much over 50lbs.I'm confident with that,practice at all yardages out to 30 yds,still I won't take a shot past 20 yards,I don't want to wound an animal or see it suffer from a bad hit.

Duncan idaho, you are how old? How many of those elite forces are in their 70's?

I just had the right knee replaced because of damage that started carrying a safe down the embassy stairs in Saigon. Removing a torn chunk of cartilage helped for many years. Arthritis finished the job and the joint had to be replaced. The left knee has torn cartilage from a bear hunt in Ontario in a mining area. That will come next. The arthritis in my spine is so bad I need an epidermal shot every 3 months to be able to walk.

The number of people I see with similar problems tells me I'm not alone. There was a time I thought I could work up to anything. Those days are gone. I used to get letters from my mom and she would write "I have to quit now, my fingers are getting too stiff". I'd tell my wife that was her way of saying she couldn't think of anything more to say. Now I realize, having inherited her arthritis, that she meant exactly what she wrote.

I'm now thrilled to be able to walk a Christmas tree farm hunting bunnies. There is no way I could walk a rough field in South Dakota after birds anymore. By the way, my conditioning program was developed by a pro.

I understand the original post and don't seriously disagree with it. If someone told me he could only draw 30#, I would suggest he settle for bunnies and foam deer.

Enjoy your youth as long as you can and live with old age as best you can. We all still enjoy trad archery, or we wouldn't be here. Some of us just enjoy it in smaller doses.

Lets don't start calling one another out....and, this topic is not about old age or physical issues....he mentioned that in the original post.

Thanks guys....good discussion.

  :campfire:

Wow Ron! I had tears in my eyes reading that.I'm glad you can still get out. Thanks for your service BTW!!

Good thread!

Bottom line for me is guys are at least willing to try/stay with Trad Bowhunting instead of the alternative.

There are a lot of posts about what to use and how. I was a greenhorn once and could only wish I had a resource like Tradgang to help me out back then. I'm basically self taught, both hunting & shooting.
Keep 'em sharp!

Terry, you're right. I got off on a siding. I do understand the thread as it was initiated. Didn't mean to get defensive and justify my weight choice.

Ron

Very well said, Gregg.

I have so many guys ask now a days "whats the least I can hunt elk with or deer with". If healthy one can work into whatever weight he/she chooses, its up to you what you feel ethical in shooting.. My 120lb wife shot 55lbs most of her life but had to work at staying fit enough to do so. I've gotten lazy myself, I shot and hunted with 73-76lbs n on occasion over 80lbs for 40someodd years, after a long layup I now dropped down to around 61 or 62lbs n find it works just fine.

Sorry got sidetracked, if healthy most can work into whatever weight they choose, Today sometimes its about fads tho. Low weight is the new fad. jmho so don't shoot me,lol

For years i shot bows from 72 to 96 pounds and I shot them pretty good. What started giving out on me was a joint in my index finger and a joint in my middle finger, being a classical musician that was not a good thing, so I had to reduce.  I had a terrible time teaching myself to shoot with less weight, it took years.  Everyone is different, some people have more control of themselves when there is more resistance and others need less resistance to have control.  As long as there is enough power to push the right sharp broadhead for the game involved, I don't have a problem with anyones choices.

Well, I had a long reply to this thread typed up...then deleted it. Now I'm going to go shoot some arrows.

 :archer2:

QuoteOriginally posted by Andy Cooper:
Well, I had a long reply to this thread typed up...then deleted it. Now I'm going to go shoot some arrows.

  :archer2:  

Did that the first three times myself....   :eek:

holy crap!  This thread is taking on a life of its own!  Good discussion guys.  I see good points on both sides.  I don't think guys should flirt with the hairy edge of barely adequate, but then again, where is the hairy edge?  I bet you get a thousand different answers if you start a topic on that too...

Now I need to get outside and shoot a little...

quote:

---

Originally posted by gregg dudley:
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andy Cooper:
Well, I had a long reply to this thread typed up...then deleted it. Now I'm going to go shoot some arrows.

   :bigsmyl: